Changes v West Coast Eagles

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I'm a bit worried about the pace of Petruccelle exposing us. I don't think we have anyone who can go with him. DBJ is quick but he's not a lock down defender type.

I went and watched AFLX last February, and yes its mickey mouse, but he played for the Eagles in 2 games and he just went flat out at everything and I thought, shit if this kid makes it in a couple of years time, the West Coast have found another Peter Matera or Chris Judd blistering speed type player. Not saying he will be as good as them but he has speed and acceleration like they did.

I have seen highlights of his last 2 games and he has used that speed very well in those packages.
He’s lightning quick but skills aren’t always that sharp. We don’t have anyone that can go with him speed wise, not many teams do. We will have to block his lead up at the ball, not allow him space and stop the ball from getting out the back.
 

porttoport

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This is part of why I'm not a fan of fines as a punishment for individuals, either in the AFL or anywhere else. Scott Lycett and Zac Butters both copped $2,000 fines last week, but Lycett has a guaranteed $3m on his contract after having probably already earned himself a few million over his career, whereas Butters has just left high school and has a contract guaranteeing him $150k or so. It's the same punishment for both of them on paper but it's not in reality.
Try just over 90k plus match payments year 1 .

Nothing like a guaranteed $150K


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Here's a hypothetical series of events.

We rookie list a state league ruckman in the 2016 preseason.

Ryder gets suspended, we elevate that ruckman and he plays all season, servicably enough that he holds the spot down.

Jackson Trengove remains in defence, his best position and one where his performances earned him a John Cahill medal. He remains the cornerstone of the defence throughout that season. Because he's still pretty good, we never take him out of defence, which means he never becomes a tall Paul Stewart style jack of all trades, he retains his competitive defensive acumen.

Because he's a defensive gun, we build the new defence around him, Jonas and Clurey and never move him to forwardline in 2017. He then never becomes obsolete and doesn't leave the club.

Potentially in 2017, we put more forward line games into the likes of Brett Eddy, or on his return from injury, Dougal Howard, who we leave up forward because we don't suddenly need a tall defender.

Trengove remains a leadership force in the locker room, and his best friend at the club Chad Wingard doesn't fall into the downward effort spiral that saw him leave the club. We not only have Chad Wingard, we have a committed Chad Wingard.

We're suddenly a better team on every line. We still get Rozee and Butters because Polec's situation doesn't change. We still get Lycett because he wanted to come home anyway.
There was no such ruckman. We had Lobbe who was far better than any state league ruckman available, that’s all there is to it. Why do you think the bulldogs wanted to trade him in?

Had we traded out Lobbe and tanked for a year while playing someone like Baulderstone thru the ruck in order to preserve Trengove and our forward line I reckon we might have been in a better position in 2017 and perhaps onwards from there. Particularly if we’d used the pick we would’ve got from the bulldogs to land Charlie Curnow.

Would the supporters have rioted or something while we lost way more games? Probably - especially if Lobbe was serviceable for the bulldogs - but I think we’d have been better off in a way.

Now had Ryder and Monfries broken from Essendon and not been suspended all year, or had the AFL let us take Mumford or whoever it was that Essendon were allowed to take, then we probably would’ve been laughing all year.

Regardless of all that I have heavy doubts that Trengove was worth keeping in any position, or that we keep Wingard/still get Rozee. What I do think is that perhaps we get Curnow and maybe even have a better 2016 draft ahead of going even deeper into finals in 2017.

I think that there is far more luck in footy than people expect, if Dixon doesn’t make it back into the side in time to drag us into finals then trading for him will have turned out to be a disaster, yet I can’t see how we don’t make that trade every single time.

Trading for Ryder was an enormous risk as well, and we really should’ve pushed him to a) delist himself, and b) take a ******* deal with WADA. I think we have to look back and say that trade hasn’t worked out either.

I think as a club we have been too desperate for success at times, at least with our off field moves. The last couple of years have been amazing though, and I’m one who is completely comfortable with the Wingard and Polec trades being fantastic for us. Burton has been our second best defender behind Houston, and the three kids we got look like they will play 700 or 800 games between them with Burton adding another 200 to that IMO. That’s an enormous win over probably less than 300 games from Wingard and Polec, even if they have AA years this year which neither of them look to be close to. I understand the downsides but I’m still very comfortable that we are gonna be a vastly superior team in 3 years because of that trade, unlike what looks to have happened thanks to the Toumpas, Dixon, Ryder and the goddamn missed Lobbe trades of the past.

I understand the fear in our supporters after the last two weeks, but I’m going to hope Dixon, Marshall, Westhoff, Wines, Amon, Lienert, Robbie and Hartlett all have great footy ahead of them this year and keep looking forwards rather than backwards. We **** it up much more and I’m fine with Hinkley getting sacked, but it’s a little too early to make that call when we are one win behind the top of the ladder and only 4 games in with so much potential talent to come into the side. Yes we should be 4-0, yes the selections we made two weeks ago cost us not just one game but two, yes we have fumbled a clear opportunity to be top of the ladder. I reckon quite a few clubs will be saying that right now though, and we still have time to catch up.

I dare say if we find a way to beat West Coast we’ll celebrate pretty hard, and in a couple of weeks we should really be firing on all cylinders with only Dixon, Amon and Watts as potential improvements. Just as easily we could be saying goodbye to Hinkley in round 8 if firing on all cylinders means we suck. Knowing me I’ll probably be saying similar about round 12 if we are shit in a few weeks, but we’ll see ;)
 
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Pick Mayes.

A) He deserves the spot has been playing well and has been emergency every week
B) Motlop is playing poorly so there is a spot for him
C) He is making his debut, will be pumped, will bring positivity to the group, and get Timmy G to remind everyone that you dont want someone making there debut for the PAFC to be a loser first game he plays for us.

We need as much positivity as possible,pick Broady to play for the first time since Rd 19 2017.

Lienert and Marshall are must ins as well.

Outs Motlop and Bonner have to get the chop and Sam Gray for Marshall and one other I don't really care who but these 4 deserve a game.
 

DazzaTys

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There was no such ruckman. We had Lobbe who was far better than any state league ruckman available, that’s all there is to it. Why do you think the bulldogs wanted to trade him in?

Had we traded out Lobbe and tanked for a year while playing someone like Baulderstone thru the ruck in order to preserve Trengove and our forward line I reckon we might have been in a better position in 2017 and perhaps onwards from there. Particularly if we’d used the pick we would’ve got from the bulldogs to land Charlie Curnow.

Would the supporters have rioted or something while we lost way more games? Probably - especially if Lobbe was serviceable for the bulldogs - but I think we’d have been better off in a way.

Now had Ryder and Monfries broken from Essendon and not been suspended all year, or had the AFL let us take Mumford or whoever it was that Essendon were allowed to take, then we probably would’ve been laughing all year.

Regardless of all that I have heavy doubts that Trengove was worth keeping in any position, or that we keep Wingard/still get Rozee. What I do think is that perhaps we get Curnow and maybe even have a better 2016 draft ahead of going even deeper into finals in 2017.

I think that there is far more luck in footy than people expect, if Dixon doesn’t make it back into the side in time to drag us into finals then trading for him will have turned out to be a disaster, yet I can’t see how we don’t make that trade every single time.

Trading for Ryder was an enormous risk as well, and we really should’ve pushed him to a) delist himself, and b) take a ******* deal with WADA. I think we have to look back and say that trade hasn’t worked out either.

I think as a club we have been too desperate for success at times, at least with our off field moves. The last couple of years have been amazing though, and I’m one who is completely comfortable with the Wingard and Polec trades being fantastic for us. Burton has been our second best defender behind Houston, and the three kids we got look like they will play 700 or 800 games between them with Burton adding another 200 to that IMO. That’s an enormous win over probably less than 300 games from Wingard and Polec, even if they have AA years this year which neither of them look to be close to. I understand the downsides but I’m still very comfortable that we are gonna be a vastly superior team in 3 years because of that trade, unlike what looks to have happened thanks to the Toumpas, Dixon, Ryder and the goddamn missed Lobbe trades of the past.

I understand the fear in our supporters after the last two weeks, but I’m going to hope Dixon, Marshall, Westhoff, Wines, Amon, Lienert, Robbie and Hartlett all have great footy ahead of them this year and keep looking forwards rather than backwards. We **** it up much more and I’m fine with Hinkley getting sacked, but it’s a little too early to make that call when we are one win behind the top of the ladder and only 4 games in with so much potential talent to come into the side. Yes we should be 4-0, yes the selections we made two weeks ago cost us not just one game but two, yes we have fumbled a clear opportunity to be top of the ladder. I reckon quite a few clubs will be saying that right now though, and we still have time to catch up.

I dare say if we find a way to beat West Coast we’ll celebrate pretty hard, and in a couple of weeks we should really be firing on all cylinders with only Dixon, Amon and Watts as potential improvements. Just as easily we could be saying goodbye to Hinkley in round 8 if firing on all cylinders means we suck. Knowing me I’ll probably be saying similar about round 12 if we are shit in a few weeks, but we’ll see ;)
I wish I had your optimism. Yes we’re only into round 5 but we’re seeing the same warning signs we’ve seen the last few years. Poor selections, no proper structure and players getting games that don’t deserve it. Apart from the few years guy that have brought in some enthusiasm there’s nothing I’ve seen from the club that indicates we are going to play finals footy. I’ll happily eat my words come september but this club has suck out any enthusiasm I have towards football.
 

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A guy around the magpies 3 qtrvtime huddle yesterday said he got access after the game (dunno how, but......) and said be prepared to see Motlop playing maggies this week. Maybe one other "name".
We await with anticipation!
 

Chewy316

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Jacko can't even get a game for the Dogs, his lack of pace must be hurting him
He was cooked going into 2016. Was always quite a slow moving defender but his lack of agility and his ridiculously huge turning circle showed up in the 2016 season. It's one of the primary reasons he was moved to the forward line, because he wasn't going to get a game in defence anymore in Bassett's mobile structure, along with the need for another tall in the forward line at the time.
 

Ports1870

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Here's a hypothetical series of events.

We rookie list a state league ruckman in the 2016 preseason.

Ryder gets suspended, we elevate that ruckman and he plays all season, servicably enough that he holds the spot down.

Jackson Trengove remains in defence, his best position and one where his performances earned him a John Cahill medal. He remains the cornerstone of the defence throughout that season. Because he's still pretty good, we never take him out of defence, which means he never becomes a tall Paul Stewart style jack of all trades, he retains his competitive defensive acumen.

Because he's a defensive gun, we build the new defence around him, Jonas and Clurey and never move him to forwardline in 2017. He then never becomes obsolete and doesn't leave the club.

Potentially in 2017, we put more forward line games into the likes of Brett Eddy, or on his return from injury, Dougal Howard, who we leave up forward because we don't suddenly need a tall defender.

Trengove remains a leadership force in the locker room, and his best friend at the club Chad Wingard doesn't fall into the downward effort spiral that saw him leave the club. We not only have Chad Wingard, we have a committed Chad Wingard.

We're suddenly a better team on every line. We still get Rozee and Butters because Polec's situation doesn't change. We still get Lycett because he wanted to come home anyway.
And we most likely still have Jarman Impey (For better of for worse), and as we don’t have the pick we traded for Watts and now have Doogs as another forward option it’s unlikely we target him (Once again for better or for worse)
 

Janus

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Here's a hypothetical series of events.

We rookie list a state league ruckman in the 2016 preseason.

Ryder gets suspended, we elevate that ruckman and he plays all season, servicably enough that he holds the spot down.

Jackson Trengove remains in defence, his best position and one where his performances earned him a John Cahill medal. He remains the cornerstone of the defence throughout that season. Because he's still pretty good, we never take him out of defence, which means he never becomes a tall Paul Stewart style jack of all trades, he retains his competitive defensive acumen.

Because he's a defensive gun, we build the new defence around him, Jonas and Clurey and never move him to forwardline in 2017. He then never becomes obsolete and doesn't leave the club.

Potentially in 2017, we put more forward line games into the likes of Brett Eddy, or on his return from injury, Dougal Howard, who we leave up forward because we don't suddenly need a tall defender.

Trengove remains a leadership force in the locker room, and his best friend at the club Chad Wingard doesn't fall into the downward effort spiral that saw him leave the club. We not only have Chad Wingard, we have a committed Chad Wingard.

We're suddenly a better team on every line. We still get Rozee and Butters because Polec's situation doesn't change. We still get Lycett because he wanted to come home anyway.
There's a fatal flaw in your hypothesis.

Trengove was never a defensive gun. He literally never improved his production much since his debut.
 

dirty2

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Motlop and Bonner need to be dropped. soft..
Being called soft is one of the worst things you can be called on the football field. Absolutely ****s me off no end when it's a 50/50 ball and our players reach for the ball ect instead of just growing a pair of balls see the ball get the ******* ball.
When I played I hated being beaten in a contest. I did not care if you were 6ft5 100kgs the ball is mine and if you get in the way I'm gonna make you hurt.
Desperation. Will to win. Never giving up. You **** your kick/handball up you work twice as ******* hard to win it back.

In: guys with heart will to win.
Out: pretenders.
 

El_Scorcho

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There's a fatal flaw in your hypothesis.

Trengove was never a defensive gun. He literally never improved his production much since his debut.
Certainly he's no Scarlett, but he was more than serviceable under the slingshot gameplan in 2014. Competitive, good decision maker, knew his limits and played in a way that minimised them being exposed.

Could have he held down a spot in our defence? Over the likes of Hombsch or Howard?
 

FishingRick04

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DBJ needs to go. He caused one goal getting half sucked into a contest, not influencing it and allowing his player 5 metres on the outside to receive and run into an open goal.

Then a half hearted slip causing another goal and there was a few more. I actually noticed him more than Bonner to be honest and I’d push him out first because of that.

Even though I’m a perceived Westhoff bully him and Motlop we’re going with the lazy one hand out half arsed efforts to tackle which what me to tears also. I reckon Motlop is injured, I could seeing a considerable limp in the third quarter coming off and on.
 
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Here's a hypothetical series of events.

We rookie list a state league ruckman in the 2016 preseason.

Ryder gets suspended, we elevate that ruckman and he plays all season, servicably enough that he holds the spot down.

Jackson Trengove remains in defence, his best position and one where his performances earned him a John Cahill medal. He remains the cornerstone of the defence throughout that season. Because he's still pretty good, we never take him out of defence, which means he never becomes a tall Paul Stewart style jack of all trades, he retains his competitive defensive acumen.

Because he's a defensive gun, we build the new defence around him, Jonas and Clurey and never move him to forwardline in 2017. He then never becomes obsolete and doesn't leave the club.

Potentially in 2017, we put more forward line games into the likes of Brett Eddy, or on his return from injury, Dougal Howard, who we leave up forward because we don't suddenly need a tall defender.

Trengove remains a leadership force in the locker room, and his best friend at the club Chad Wingard doesn't fall into the downward effort spiral that saw him leave the club. We not only have Chad Wingard, we have a committed Chad Wingard.

We're suddenly a better team on every line. We still get Rozee and Butters because Polec's situation doesn't change. We still get Lycett because he wanted to come home anyway.
Ignoring all the hypotheticals, the idea that Trengove (and Impey) leaving the group triggered Chad to go too reflects a level of entitlement and over-comfort in the list which is a massive black mark against Hinkley in itself. That's a festering sore that developed under his watch and I'm really worried it's going to sprout up again if we don't can the campaigner soon.
 
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