Changes versus Richmond

[Alberton Proud]

Going to be the same shit every time.

Sam Gray starts in the middle. Outbodied by everyone, runs around doing nothing. Not turning the ball over for him is considered a win. Moves to half forward/full forward and maybe kicks a goal and stays in the side because Port Magpies story and he kicked a goal.

Unfair, we need a small crumbing forward at the moment (to crumb all those mark's Paddy's dropping ) dare I say it in the mold of E Betts

 

[finbarr]

Won't happen

No shit.

 

[simmo_bc]

Won't happen

Hartlett and Wingard haven't been playing too badly for us but both need to put 4 quarters together, they'd never be dropped.

Hoff just needs to find his mojo and impose himself more with his standard 15 possessions a game.

 

[Alberton Proud]

Won't happen

No shit.

Just meant that despite all the sh!t talk, it's not panic stations yet

Our top players have earned their places and deserve the benefit

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The coaches have something to answer about with Westhoff. They've created this really comfortable mindset that if he's not performing up forward then he can go into the midfield as a tall marking option around the ground or loose in defence to cut off attacks.

He always has an out and now he's not being particularly effective in any of those roles. But he's so versatile they say, so he seems to be safe. Sadly supporters eat that shit up too. Maybe it's time he's told he's picked as the no.2 forward so it's time to kick 4 or 5 goals in the next couple of weeks or there will be no more excuses based on his versatility.

 

[finbarr]

Just meant that despite all the sh!t talk, it's not panic stations yet

Our top players have earned their places and deserve the benefit

Hartlett's form this year doesn't even warrant him being dropped, despite what some would have us believe. He's been short of his best but he's been ok.
As for Westhoff, even during a stretch of poor form he's only ever one game from taking 12 marks and kicking 4. And who on our list gives us what Justin can give us anyway?

 

[Coobk001]

How the hell have Crows been doing so well with ALL of their injuries? We have almost none and yet dropping all these games. Maybe Crows are better than us? I am a tad nervous. Pull your fingers out this week, boys. We CANNOT let Walsh and Rooshitto get a Premiership before us!

To be fair until the last few weeks all the crows injuries were to depth players except Crouch. They've only just started to lose best 22 players the last few weeks and as such against GWS and Freo we'll start to see how injuries affect them..... however as mentioned in another thread the crows have made GWS their whipping boy in recent times.

 

[Janus]

The coaches have something to answer about with Westhoff. They've created this really comfortable mindset that if he's not performing up forward then he can go into the midfield as a tall marking option around the ground or loose in defence to cut off attacks.

He always has an out and now he's not being particularly effective in any of those roles. But he's so versatile they say, so he seems to be safe. Sadly supporters eat that shit up too. Maybe it's time he's told he's picked as the no.2 forward so it's time to kick 4 or 5 goals in the next couple of weeks or there will be no more excuses based on his versatility.

If we're playing with Ryder and Lobbe, the sum of an extra ruck and Westhoff has to be greater than Westhoff/Ryder/Lobbe missing out and a midfielder taking his place.

It's like everything that anyone said about Ryder letting Westhoff off the leash has been put in reverse, whereby he can regress to the lazy footballer who isn't even a jack of all trades and is just an extra everything instead of an essesential anything.

 

[simmo_bc]

Unfair, we need a small crumbing forward at the moment (to crumb all those mark's Paddy's dropping ) dare I say it in the mold of E Betts

Is it just me or does it make you cringe when you hear the Crows crowd in unison shout "Eeeeddddddiiiiieeeeeeeeeee"?

As for Westhoff, even during a stretch of poor form he's only ever one game from taking 12 marks and kicking 4. And who on our list gives us what Justin can give us anyway?

Totally agree, I doubt you'd get too many coaches brave enough to drop someone with the Hoff's physical gifts.. If I was coach, he'd be a lock for me and his form will turn around, a genuine confidence player. In reality, his form hasn't been that bad, he just hasn't been doing the flashy stuff which everyone notices.

 

[Coobk001]

Frampton's fitness tests till round 11 could be amusing

I thought we previously established on this board the round 11 promotion doesn't exist anymore and was only there during the expansion team phase?

 

[finbarr]

Totally agree, I doubt you'd get too many coaches brave enough to drop someone with the Hoff's physical gifts.. If I was coach, he'd be a lock for me and his form will turn around, a genuine confidence player. In reality, his form hasn't been that bad, he just hasn't been doing the flashy stuff which everyone notices.

I don't actually think Westhoff is that much of a confidence player. He almost seems oblivious to what's being said about him and doesn't seem phased by a bad run of form. As such he can go from first half dud to second half stud in the blink of an eye, hence why dropping him or resting him probably wouldn't serve much of a purpose.

 

[tribey]

Is it just me or does it make you cringe when you hear the Crows crowd in unison shout "Eeeeddddddiiiiieeeeeeeeeee"?

I cringe worse when commentators call it when Charlie Cameron's in space/about to take possession.

Fair play to them btw. It beggars belief that he's become a genuine cult hero in Adelaide overnight but was comparitively unloved at Carlton.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

I don't actually think Westhoff is that much of a confidence player. He almost seems oblivious to what's being said about him and doesn't seem phased by a bad run of form. As such he can go from first half dud to second half stud in the blink of an eye, hence why dropping him or resting him probably wouldn't serve much of a purpose.

I can just imagine him floating around in a daze in a few pointless SANFL games that would do him no good... needs to pull his finger out but at this stage you wouldn't drop him.

 

[Valentino]

I've had a good look at the Hawks game this week and it has only confirmed to me that we need to stop playing Westhoff in defensive 50, when things are going well the individual parts of the team don't matter so much and can be the things that really enhance the team whether that be being a bit fancy, doing a handstand like Aker or having a man bun but these are the things that draw criticism when things aren't going so smoothly. This week hopefully we strip everything back and get back to doing the basics of team football. When we're up and about Hoff can play that roaming game and with Ryder that can work but it's gone way too far.

Watching the Hawks game again, they kicked the first goal of the last quarter and we put Hoff straight back into defense... We went defensive and tried to defend the lead and hold on rather than win the game. We wonder why they had so many repeat entries, well it's because Westhoff was standing in the defensive 50 on no one so we'd win it back but had no one to win it 100 metres from goal and Hawks used the extra numbers to create run and eventually any team but Hawks especially will hurt you. We were praised for our last line of defense and scraping but we're being weak and giving the defense too much of a cop-out. Sitting back and putting numbers behind the ball means the game is in our defensive half and the forwards can't pressure because their so out numbered and I don't think we should praise the defense for doing so well when we're inviting so much pressure, sure two-way running from the midfield is pivotal to help the defense out and obviously in the last couple of minutes in each quarter especially if the opposition have kicked a couple of goals having Westhoff drift into defense is fine but not at the 4 min mark of a bloody quarter and because we were under siege he stayed in defense, but the whole reason we were under so much pressure was we had nothing forward of centre, nothing and no one to link wing to forward 50 the exact role Westhoff should be playing! When Ryder is in the ruck Westhoff should be playing closer to goal and when Ryder is up forward thats when Westhoff can really work his opponent over, he has to take a leaf out of Riewoldt's book and really use his aerobic capacity and blow his opponent up working up and back being the link between half back and forward 50. I saw against the Lions Westhoff got back but his opponent followed him, in what world is that a win for us, having a forward not even playing loose in defense, thats a win for the opposition. We already have Carlile, Trengove, Hombsch and Jonas so we don't need anymore height or lumbering 6'8' players in defense, especially when the oppositions most dangerous forwards are smalls like Betts, Rioli and Green last week.

If we need someone to play a loose man role surely Krak or Broady would be better for that role having more speed and better skills without having to sacrifice a key forward and our whole attacking structure to achieve defensive security. I don't know if it's player initiated or the coach's instruction but we're being far too defensive and it means we can't use our run, our defense is capable and even if we do get beaten in the clearances and in the midfield we have the quality to win the ball back but we have to back ourselves so that we have the weapons and structure in place on the rebound otherwise we're going nowhere fast. Taking it on is a lot easier when you look up and see proper options, but like in the Hawks game being at the game you could see we'd get the ball back and we wouldn't run on knowing we have nothing ahead. Our list is better than 14 other teams so why not beat them fair and square one on one. This is why people are saying that it may have looked like we were trying but our skills were shocking, well it's because coming out of defensive 50 we have no options and turn it over. A few games last year we won the inside 50s but players hit us on the counter which is how we beat the Crows, but I'd rather lose pressing teams and getting caught out than moving away from our attacking style and losing our run because we're too defensive minded. Another thing I hate is young players making their debut as sub then being dropped, sure they get the experience of AFL but wouldn't it be better for them to stay in the SANFL getting a full game than play for a quarter for 3 weeks then going back? The sub role can go to outside runners that are lacking form like Mitchell, White, Stewart and Krak who can come on and create run.

I don't think it does much for young player's development for them to play a quarter a week until they get dropped, they might as well stay in the SANFL, however Amon sub is fine as he's a half forward and a hard runner as long as he then gets a full game but why play Ah Chee sub when he's a clearance player yet play Mitchell and White for full games. The problem last week is we played 4 half back flankers plus O'Shea and didn't replace Wines and Polec who are ball winners and get plenty of the ball, surely we can't play both Krak and Impey if both Broady and Pittard are fit, the same way we probably can't play both Amon and Neade as their playing the same role and it would be too many players who will get around the 15 disposal mark playing for a player who would get 25 like Wines, especially if those touches are either forward or defense because who is making up the 25 touches in the middle? But more importantly if you're playing Wingard and Gray through the middle to cover Wines and Polec then we need another half forward to help Monfries. Unfortunately if match ups don't suit then maybe Jonas or Trengove may have to play different roles, maybe they should develop swing-man roles. I think Hombsch would be great swinging forward as he's such a great natural mark, there's so much Chad Cornes about him but he's still in that critical 30-80 games mark of learning so since he's playing so well I wouldn't want to mess with that but I reckon if we come up against teams like Adelaide with limited tall defensive option why not play Jonas or Trengove forward for a quarter and see how they go.

For me these are the changes we should do this week:
Out: O'Shea Mitchell Impey/White (Who ever stays in the side should be sub)
In: Carlile Wines Stewart

Give Amon a full game playing half forward with Wingard and Gray playing a bit more in the midfield. Richmond have Riewoldt, Vickey, Griffiths and McBean which for this week is perfect for our four talls so we don't need all four of our half backs so either Impey or Kraks need to be dropped down. Once Cornes has retired, Young, Ah Chee, Neade and Impey to contend hotly for spots. For mine Amon & Neade should be given opportunity before Sam Gray in the same way Ah Chee, Young, Colquhoun should be given opportunity over Mitchell. Moore is now in the Stewart category, bring in when in top form but potential is over its about bringing them in when they're playing in top form.

Nice first post.

 

[Janus]

I cringe worse when commentators call it when Charlie Cameron's in space/about to take possession.

Fair play to them btw. It beggars belief that he's become a genuine cult hero in Adelaide overnight but was comparitively unloved at Carlton.

That's because Carlton fans expect premierships and not highlight reels. Wasn't Betts' fault but he was never going to be celebrated so hard anywhere but the Crows.

 

[Hardcore]

i think selection is pretty good, last season we screamed out for a second tall up forward to help out we got it in Ryder now him, schultz and westy need to work it out. Its been obvious that with this extra tall the footy is hitting the deck more often and atm we dont have a small keeping it in the area. White, Gus, wingard and co arent the type of players to crumb and keep the ball in the area which has been killing us. Hence Sam gray coming in neade is the other option but not playing well enough to get the recall.

With Bobby back in it leaves Oshea out, now this leaves a mid to make way for Wines and a forward to make way for Gray. Probably Mitchell and ?????.

I liked Impey's game and would like to see Amon get another crack but can see it coming from one of them.

 

[tribey]

That's because Carlton fans expect premierships and not highlight reels. Wasn't Betts' fault but he was never going to be celebrated so hard anywhere but the Crows.

And yet wouldn't give him the brown paper bag he wanted as is the usual Carlton way

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Janus]

And yet wouldn't give him the brown paper bag he wanted as is the usual Carlton way

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool you once, shame on...on...you can't fool me again.

 

[Byrons Firen]

The debate about the Hoff is fair enough.
His pre-season game v WCE was ordinary and I haven't seen a whole lot since.
That he is capable of so much more makes his seemingly lackdaisical efforts harder to swallow.
Justin I don't expect you to crash packs or be the last one up from a scrimmage.
But I want to see more, a lot more, coz your capable of it and we need you to.
Maybe myself and others are getting a bit 'antsy' because we don't know what to expect
or what we are going to be given.
Get me screaming "The Hoff" with a smile on my dial and not staring at you with hands in pockets
spitting feathers. I don't know if there is an underlying issue going on but it LOOKS like you are
too comfortable wafting around with a less than fully committed effort, teasing us with mercurial
"there's only one Westhoff"(B McAvaney) moments.

So, come on Justin, nail those set shots, snap truly and give us what you've got.
I don't want to be hissing 'ffs' through clenched teeth.
Get me and 50k others 'up n about' cheering, clapping and grinning from ear to ear.

 

[It Just Is]

Stewart for Broadbent if anything close to a big out happens.

Seems kind of pointless to replace one half back without a role with another.

Broady's suffers from being too flexible at times. He's our best rebounding defender; we should play him there!

 

[x_les_x]

I wouldn't think Wingard would be dropped he's numbers are pretty good. averages 22 disposals and has kicked at least a goal in every game this year. He would have a theoretical golden pass too young, too good to drop even as sub

 

[davesnothere]

Seems kind of pointless to replace one half back without a role with another.

Broady's suffers from being too flexible at times. He's our best rebounding defender; we should play him there!

Would be happy with that, I'm more a a Broadbent fan than a Stewart but I couldn't think of any other established player that could have been dropped to make way for Stewart.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The idea of Wingard being dropped is laughably ridiculous at this point. There would be about 15 people more worthy of being left out

 

[Smartys Power]

Early call Mr Sarcasm. 3 to go out

Not necessarily. Can just stick with the one change if we wanted to.

Although at least 2 will be made with Carlile and Wines to come in.

 

[finbarr]

The idea of Wingard being dropped is laughably ridiculous at this point. There would be about 15 people more worthy of being left out

How is Wingard even in the "drop him" conversation? Honestly, some people must expect him to be gathering 35 touches, 4 goals, 10 clearances and a cure for Ebola every time he goes out there.