Preview Changes vs Adelaide round 18

[ep2018]

Agree that Petch has come on a bit this year. Thought he was done and it would never click, but he’s only 21/22, and exposure to senior footy is for the best.

Petch is maybe suffering from being the devil we know at the moment, which isn’t what fans want when the side is underperforming. He’s not been great lately, but showed his career best footy early in the year. If he wasn’t in, he’d be the exact type we’d want in - young, untapped potential, “the season is wasted anyway so let’s get a look at these kids” type.

I don’t see any benefit in playing someone like Hutch or a healthy Ah Chee in place of Petch. Assume the season is gone from a meaningful finals campaign sense - those guys won’t help the Eagles in one or two years, Petch might. Worth persisting, at least for clarity’s sake.

I can be swayed that maybe we expose Bailey Williams to more footy instead, though I don’t like carrying two ruckmen, but if the option is Vardy or Petch it’s a no brainer to me who it’s more worth hoping catches fire.

What's your gut feeling on who wins this game?

 

[Bacchus]

Agree that Petch has come on a bit this year. Thought he was done and it would never click, but he’s only 21/22, and exposure to senior footy is for the best.

Petch is maybe suffering from being the devil we know at the moment, which isn’t what fans want when the side is underperforming. He’s not been great lately, but showed his career best footy early in the year. If he wasn’t in, he’d be the exact type we’d want in - young, untapped potential, “the season is wasted anyway so let’s get a look at these kids” type.

I don’t see any benefit in playing someone like Hutch or a healthy Ah Chee in place of Petch. Assume the season is gone from a meaningful finals campaign sense - those guys won’t help the Eagles in one or two years, Petch might. Worth persisting, at least for clarity’s sake.

I can be swayed that maybe we expose Bailey Williams to more footy instead, though I don’t like carrying two ruckmen, but if the option is Vardy or Petch it’s a no brainer to me who it’s more worth hoping catches fire.

Richmond ‘carried’ two ruckmen tonight and it didn’t do them any harm.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Richmond ‘carried’ two ruckmen tonight and it didn’t do them any harm.

Richmond’s game and personnel are incredibly different to ours, and at their best they don’t.

im not saying no team can or ever should carry two rucks. On a week where we have Kennedy, Darling and Allen, I don’t see the need for Williams. I’m done with Vardy. All things considered this might be one of our shorter weeks (HEdwards, Gov and Hurn sure, plus Nic, but no Brander, no Waterman) and it still feels too tall to play two rucks.

It can work, it might work for us in the future when JK and Hurn finish up, but I can’t see any sense in playing the game with Nic on 70% game time and Williams/Vardy on 50-60%. Needless hamstrings us, deprives us of another runner and makes the ones that out there stay out there longer.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

What's your gut feeling on who wins this game?

Geez. We’re in a state at the moment, but Adelaide’s form is disgraceful. One win in six, two wins in 12 I think it is. We beat them in tackles and clearances when we played last, and had no Shuey/Yeo, no Gov/TB/Hurn. On paper, etc etc

Paraphrasing Keys on the pod last night (cheap plug but not really, I thought it was a good sentiment): it’s not about the Crows. If we turn up we win, but that was true last week and look what happened.

I say we win but I won’t be putting anything significant on it. They have to respond eventually…don’t they?

 

[Cuzz09]

On paper the team looks really good.

In reality the team is playing s**t.

Hopefully we can get a win but not holding my breath.



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[Footfalcon]

Think Brander was improving at a trajectory better then petch, playing a more vital role in ball movement from the wing. I’d say our movement has suffered since he was dropped

 

[Bacchus]

Richmond’s game and personnel are incredibly different to ours, and at their best they don’t.

im not saying no team can or ever should carry two rucks. On a week where we have Kennedy, Darling and Allen, I don’t see the need for Williams. I’m done with Vardy. All things considered this might be one of our shorter weeks (HEdwards, Gov and Hurn sure, plus Nic, but no Brander, no Waterman) and it still feels too tall to play two rucks.

It can work, it might work for us in the future when JK and Hurn finish up, but I can’t see any sense in playing the game with Nic on 70% game time and Williams/Vardy on 50-60%. Needless hamstrings us, deprives us of another runner and makes the ones that out there stay out there longer.

I can’t be bothered going through every team right now, but just off the top of my head l think most of them have two rucks even if the ‘second ruck’ is more of a forward - think Darcy and Lobb at Fremantle, Grundy and Cameron at Collingwood, Gawn and Jackson at Melbourne, Martin and English at Bulldogs etc. The token ruck which Allen is, was sometimes practiced by Richmond with Pickett and Grigg, but I don’t think it is the norm. We are clearly limited and constrained by our particular player set-up, but I am querying whether we are better off with a more genuine 50-60% ruckman, or so-called runners who don’t really add a lot. I think it is a moot point. The situation is obviously not ideal, and the MC don’t seem to have settled on the answer by the way they chop and change. I am not in favour of playing Vardy by the way.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I can’t be bothered going through every team right now, but just off the top of my head l think most of them have two rucks even if the ‘second ruck’ is more of a forward - think Darcy and Lobb at Fremantle, Grundy and Cameron at Collingwood, Gawn and Jackson at Melbourne, Martin and English at Bulldogs etc. The token ruck which Allen is, was sometimes practiced by Richmond with Pickett and Grigg, but I don’t think it is the norm. We are clearly limited and constrained by our particular player set-up, but I am querying whether we are better off with a more genuine 50-60% ruckman, or so-called runners who don’t really add a lot. I think it is a moot point. The situation is obviously not ideal, and the MC don’t seem to have settled on the answer by the way they chop and change. I am not in favour of playing Vardy by the way.

I’d say probably half the sides play one genuine ruck plus a key forward who rucks a bit, which is what we’re doing most weeks. You’re being a bit harsh on Allen by lumping him with Pickett and Grigg, who are midfielders who most of the time don’t even compete but stay down and try to shark. I don’t think any other sides are using that sort of setup, except maybe Gold Coast who have had times this season when they don’t have a fit ruckman to select.

Crows look like using Himmelberg in the forward-bit of ruck role this week. It’s much easier for them to do that though, because O’Brien plays 85-90% of games, whereas Nic plays 65-70% so our chop-out ruck is required to do a lot more work.

We’re a little bit stuck, though, because (a) we’re wedded to playing all of Kennedy, Darling and Allen in the forward line (except the odd game where Allen is required down back), and adding a second ruck makes us extremely tall, particularly in all the wet weather games we’ve had; (b) neither Vardy nor Williams, the two potential genuine backup rucks we’ve got available, have offered much this year; and (c) with all the players on managed minutes, adding a second ruck who’s probably going to be on the bench 40% of the game means there’s not enough rotations available for the rest of the side.

Early on in the season the super-tall lineup was actually working - there was a time when Kennedy/Darling/Allen we’re averaging something ridiculous like 10 or 12 goals a game between them when they all played forward and Vardy played backup ruck. But then the wet weather hit, then we brought Shuey and Yeo into the team on managed minutes, and it became near-impossible to maintain that structure.

 

[wce4premiership]

I am struggling to see the point of Petrucelle’s selection. If he provided run, kicked goals or tackled and pressured opponents l could see why he was picked instead of Williams as a second ruck but he does none of these things. At least Williams can offer a reasonable ruck contest and take the occasional pack mark to influence the game.

I would agree if there was anyone fit to take the spot but at the moment we only have Ryan, Petch, Langdon and Cripps for the smaller forward positions with the possibility of rolling Kelly or Sheed through there part time.

Pettruccelle is X-factor, but the team is a bit broken so the basics need to be done better. The basics are not his strong suit at all but hopefully he improves.

 

[squashface]

I’d say probably half the sides play one genuine ruck plus a key forward who rucks a bit, which is what we’re doing most weeks. You’re being a bit harsh on Allen by lumping him with Pickett and Grigg, who are midfielders who most of the time don’t even compete but stay down and try to shark. I don’t think any other sides are using that sort of setup, except maybe Gold Coast who have had times this season when they don’t have a fit ruckman to select.

Crows look like using Himmelberg in the forward-bit of ruck role this week. It’s much easier for them to do that though, because O’Brien plays 85-90% of games, whereas Nic plays 65-70% so our chop-out ruck is required to do a lot more work.

We’re a little bit stuck, though, because (a) we’re wedded to playing all of Kennedy, Darling and Allen in the forward line (except the odd game where Allen is required down back), and adding a second ruck makes us extremely tall, particularly in all the wet weather games we’ve had; (b) neither Vardy nor Williams, the two potential genuine backup rucks we’ve got available, have offered much this year; and (c) with all the players on managed minutes, adding a second ruck who’s probably going to be on the bench 40% of the game means there’s not enough rotations available for the rest of the side.

Early on in the season the super-tall lineup was actually working - there was a time when Kennedy/Darling/Allen we’re averaging something ridiculous like 10 or 12 goals a game between them when they all played forward and Vardy played backup ruck. But then the wet weather hit, then we brought Shuey and Yeo into the team on managed minutes, and it became near-impossible to maintain that structure.

It probably highlights the reality that Kennedy needs to retire IMO. Then we can go in with Allen and Darling as our forwards and play Williams as the 2nd ruck/third tall forward. Not sure what that means for Waterman though, does he play his career in and out of the side until Darling retires?

 

[ziad]

It probably highlights the reality that Kennedy needs to retire IMO. Then we can go in with Allen and Darling as our forwards and play Williams as the 2nd ruck/third tall forward. Not sure what that means for Waterman though, does he play his career in and out of the side until Darling retires?

Pretty sure what this means for Waterman. Our next WAFL Captain.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

It probably highlights the reality that Kennedy needs to retire IMO. Then we can go in with Allen and Darling as our forwards and play Williams as the 2nd ruck/third tall forward. Not sure what that means for Waterman though, does he play his career in and out of the side until Darling retires?

So where does that leave Brander? My thoughts are we need to make him our third tall defender.

In fact I would go so far as looking to move Gov out of defence and use him as the second ruck /KPF. For me the Marks Brothers have gone too far as loose intercepting defenders and teams have worked us out. Barrass can be the interceptor with Hedwards as the tall lockdown and Brander as the endurance third tall.

As for Waterman, I would say he develops his wing craft and is a backup if Darling or Allen are out

 

[squashface]

So where does that leave Brander? My thoughts are we need to make him our third tall defender.

In fact I would go so far as looking to move Gov out of defence and use him as the second ruck /KPF. For me the Marks Brothers have gone too far as loose intercepting defenders and teams have worked us out. Barrass can be the interceptor with Hedwards as the tall lockdown and Brander as the endurance third tall.

As for Waterman, I would say he develops his wing craft and is a backup if Darling or Allen are out

Yeah I like Brander developing as a backman. We have 0 tall backs outside of Edwards, Barrass and Gov so there is a need there.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Haven’t seen any reports from the airport but it looks like O’Neill is the only emergency playing WAFL, so get ready for a late change. No Hutchings, Nelson or Williams.

 

[Ochre]

Haven’t seen any reports from the airport but it looks like O’Neill is the only emergency playing WAFL, so get ready for a late change. No Hutchings, Nelson or Williams.

Would be a tall if Williams is being held out surely. You're not using him as a sub or a general emergency.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Would be a tall if Williams is being held out surely. You're not using him as a sub or a general emergency.

NicNat late out ?

Allen would be my guess, he’s looked very sore lately.

 

[ep2018]

NicNat late out ?

Allen would be my guess, he’s looked very sore lately.

Do we know who flew over. Kennedy would be my guess. He's due a rest.

 

[FKASC]

Team list and low effort content now added to preview.

 

[Moose1414]

It probably highlights the reality that Kennedy needs to retire IMO. Then we can go in with Allen and Darling as our forwards and play Williams as the 2nd ruck/third tall forward. Not sure what that means for Waterman though, does he play his career in and out of the side until Darling retires?

This is a really unfortunate opinion. While it does seem that if Kennedy called time given that he is 34 next month and 5 years older than Jack, its not really indicative of his form is it? Kennedy cannot retire until we are sure this group is in full fall out of the 8 rebuild mode, and its not there yet. If we realistically want to have another shot at a premiership before losing Nic, Kennedy should stick around. And there is just no comparison between him and Darling as forwards, their entire career and this year is no excepting Kennedy is our number 1 forward and Darling is the support act.

The problem with Oscar stepping immediately into the breach if Kennedy hangs the boots up, is that Oscar is young, courageous and chomping at he bit to make his mark on the competition. This is great, and he is ready for it, but it means he's going to miss a lot of footy through injury for a while. It just can't be avoided, he's going to hit contests hard, put his body on the line, fly for huge pack marks and miss weeks for collision injuries for years on end until he becomes a veteran of his craft. If Kennedy retires, Oscar goes down and then our forward line is Darling and Waterman, neither of which are Key Position size.

I'm all for Kennedy being managed more in 2022, maybe even ok with him making way for Oscar from round one next year and being a playing forward coach that only comes in if one of Darling or Oscar breaks down, but he has to be retained. Could be kicking 70 goals a season for next 3 years at another club you don't just force him into retirement to bring on a 22 year old who we actually still don't know can definitely play the role. Big difference in craft between what Oscar does as a 3rd option and what JKK does as full forward, and JKK as a number 2 pick and player of a generation behind only Buddy I'd say took until he was 27 or so to really hit his straps. Hurn retiring end of year to allow kids like Rotham and Witherdon come on is the kind of move you are talking about, and is the right move. Retiring Kennedy is madness.

 

[West Coast 06]

It is interesting that only JK seems to get “managed” when it comes to us? I know Nic did last season when we had a bunch of 5 day breaks but every other team “manages” their players more than we do. Would’ve thought it’d be perfect to use this excuse on underperforming senior players if we’re seemingly scared of hurting their egos

How do we manage players when those that we may have rested have been injured for a good chunk of the season and are desperately trying to build match fitness?

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

This is a really unfortunate opinion. While it does seem that if Kennedy called time given that he is 34 next month and 5 years older than Jack, its not really indicative of his form is it? Kennedy cannot retire until we are sure this group is in full fall out of the 8 rebuild mode, and its not there yet. If we realistically want to have another shot at a premiership before losing Nic, Kennedy should stick around. And there is just no comparison between him and Darling as forwards, their entire career and this year is no excepting Kennedy is our number 1 forward and Darling is the support act.

The problem with Oscar stepping immediately into the breach if Kennedy hangs the boots up, is that Oscar is young, courageous and chomping at he bit to make his mark on the competition. This is great, and he is ready for it, but it means he's going to miss a lot of footy through injury for a while. It just can't be avoided, he's going to hit contests hard, put his body on the line, fly for huge pack marks and miss weeks for collision injuries for years on end until he becomes a veteran of his craft. If Kennedy retires, Oscar goes down and then our forward line is Darling and Waterman, neither of which are Key Position size.

I'm all for Kennedy being managed more in 2022, maybe even ok with him making way for Oscar from round one next year and being a playing forward coach that only comes in if one of Darling or Oscar breaks down, but he has to be retained. Could be kicking 70 goals a season for next 3 years at another club you don't just force him into retirement to bring on a 22 year old who we actually still don't know can definitely play the role. Big difference in craft between what Oscar does as a 3rd option and what JKK does as full forward, and JKK as a number 2 pick and player of a generation behind only Buddy I'd say took until he was 27 or so to really hit his straps. Hurn retiring end of year to allow kids like Rotham and Witherdon come on is the kind of move you are talking about, and is the right move. Retiring Kennedy is madness.

I feel its pure delusion to think we have any chance of winning a flag. We lost at home to the wooden spoon favourites in North Melbourne!

Even on the off chance that the team turns things around for the rest of the season, I still think we're a level below Dees, Doggies, Power, Lions and Cats. This won't change in 2022 regardless of form.

 

[Scotland]

I feel its pure delusion to think we have any chance of winning a flag. We lost at home to the wooden spoon favourites in North Melbourne!

Even on the off chance that the team turns things around for the rest of the season, I still think we're a level below Dees, Doggies, Power, Lions and Cats. This won't change in 2022 regardless of form.

We need to turn things around to stay in the lower reaches of the 8. We are 16 points off 4th spot with 6 games left. The main thing keeping us in the 8 is 8 point games involving the teams around us and said teams dropping winnable games. Even if we somehow won 6/6 we'd probably still finish 6th or 7th.

There are some ordinary teams in the running for 7th and 8th and we are one. As it stands we've beaten Port (4th) and Richmond (7th) out of the top 8. 0-4 against the Bulldogs (twice), Cats and Swans with the Lions and Dees to come.

 

[Moose1414]

I feel its pure delusion to think we have any chance of winning a flag. We lost at home to the wooden spoon favourites in North Melbourne!

Even on the off chance that the team turns things around for the rest of the season, I still think we're a level below Dees, Doggies, Power, Lions and Cats. This won't change in 2022 regardless of form.

So if that the case, all good. Retire Kennedy and Hurn, and Shuey season end. Trade out Gaff, Darling, Gov, and Redden to top 8 clubs for deals on their first rounders. Go to the draft, and bring in good players under 25. Nic and Shep to stay on as life long eagles for being pure heart and soul, and so there are a few old blokes around for wisdom.

In my opinion yes Dees and Dogs are cut above so far this season, but also the season is a long way from finishing and they have got through remarkably unscathed. Still both massive bolters in 2021 and would be poised to either fall back down to the pack back half of the season like most sides that go into the bye 10-1 or there about, and/or make it to a GF and get done by a more experienced team. Brisbane are in big trouble as their finals chances are going to hinge on Daniher now to play forward and he's going to implode under the pressure, or not- in which case he kicks 1 goal 8 or something more often than not. Power are not above us if you take into account injuries. Geelong have an older list than us and plenty of quality vets, but are better coached and have a stronger home ground advantage at alphabet then we do at Optus. Geelong are a good side to compare to us really, both around the mark for best performed home and away side over the last decade only difference being they have made top 4 more often due to being a more professionally run outfit. We have had a higher ceiling though when things are going our way as evidenced by us getting a flag over that time. Their list should fall off the cliff before ours does from here, but only in theory.

I feel like anything can still happen in 2021. Simpson has stood his ground and said its this group of untouchables or nothing at all, and he is kind of right about the fact that our effort was up against North- which we should have won if it wasn't for Shuey being on managed minutes and Darling dropping about 3-4 regulation marks in scoring position- and Sydney, who got us at our bogey ground and are truly a better side than probably at least 2 of the group of clubs you listed above. The bulldogs game I think was really our only stinker, but what else is new with this group and getting jumped the week after their annual midseason surfing and wine tourr of the Margret River region.We almost always get scheduled to come off our bye against a side that has played the week before to dust off the cobwebs of their own, earlier, bye.

It could be the case, that we took a calculated risk bringing our engine room back prematurely to build match fitness in the 22. We got rained on big time but its done now. It hasn't really cost us anything but a dent in public opinion actually. We were already too far behind the 4 and Sydney were doing too well to leapfrog into 5th. Now we are basically playing for 7th instead of 6th, its just so tight in the bottom half of the 8 that dropping games before the bye sealed our fate. We are a game in hand from 8th right now so can easily make finals still. Victoria is going to be in lockdown for a very long time after the coming week. Season is a chance of being moved to Optus [except it won't because we probably can't host enough games to hub all teams as opposed to Queensland which has 2 grounds. Not sure if WACA can be bought online]. This means that ironically, we are still alive in 2021. If all the right players hit their straps fitness wise in round 22, like all good clubs should be aiming to do, we are a chance to turn it on.

For 2022 I actually don't see how we don't remain a threat, Jkk, Darling, Nic, Edwards, Barrass down the spine, Oscar and Gov as swing men. Thats 5 AA level Key position players out of 6, an embarrassment of riches in anyones language. Rioli back into the side. Ryan fully fit, potentially Brander and West and Edwards, Yeo fit, Kelly improving.. thats not a bad engine room. Gaff, Shuey, Redden, Sheed not back support for those guys either. Then there is Duggan and Rotham and Witherdon in the back 6, all of whom can attack from the half backline at AFL level is instructed to do so. Shep still good to be our veteran down there. Fully fit, well coached, and hungry, I don't see that side being blown off the park by Bulldogs or Melbourne or Brisbane next year, not in a foregone conclusion kind of way. I see that side playing out in a GF against one of 2 obligatory opponents. Sydney, in a nail biter. Or Geelong, in a soul destroying Eagles victory.

 

[Scotland]

So if that the case, all good. Retire Kennedy and Hurn, and Shuey season end. Trade out Gaff, Darling, Gov, and Redden to top 8 clubs for their deals on their first rounders and go to the draft and bring in good players under 25.

This isn't happening.

I swear some footy fans don't follow footy at all.

 

[Moose1414]

This isn't happening.

I swear some footy fans don't follow footy at all.

It not happening because we haven't bottomed out. Read some context into my post it was a hypothetical if he view I was arguing against was true. Jesus.