Preview Changes vs Brisbane

[Pugsley]

You must love late night talk radio

Don't listen to it.

 

[NSolis]

What is made up in my comment?..

Murphy 101 games
Mchenry 67 games

So over a 150 games wasted on these two hacks that havent improved 1 iota since their first games.

Thats disgusting no matter which way you look at it..

What about my “Unflushable turds” comment?… seems pretty accurate to me.. over 150 games wasted is all the evidence you need to see that they wont go down the s bend.

“Oxygen thief”?.. on the money. Have you ever seen so much energy expelled for so little return on a footy field from both these lads?..

Or was it the fact that we have several posters in here that just love to take potshots at our under 20 game players but stay fxxkn endlessly silent when it comes to the form, and complete shite, guys like murph, mchenry, sholl, keays, smithers are dishing up nearly week in week out.. and have done for a while now..

You dont criticise young players that have less than 20 games under their belts.. you need to expect them to have bad/quiet games..

its your more experienced guys with more than 50, 100, 200+ games that you should be teeing off on when they are consistently shite.

Murph, mchenry, smith, keays.. these blokes..

Although Keays has been less damaging to the team in recent times.. mostly because they’ve finally got him away from the middle and hidden him in a forward pocket where he can “joe the goose” it up until the cows come home..

The 'made up' part is about people demanding we drop Cook to get Murphy back in the team. Nobody is saying that as you're aware.

As far as leeway for younger players is concerned, you don't just give people infinite rope because they are below a specific age/experience level. You are looking for signs they are going to be a good AFL player and that they are improving, while tolerating some inconsistency and mistakes more than you would for a senior player. Cook is in his 4th season, and he's just played a block of 5 games. While he has obvious upside, he needs to be turning the corner and starting to impact games, not averaging under 10 disposals while playing a role where he should be free to get a reasonable amount of the ball.

He's also out of contract, and at this stage is looking like a delist. I'm happy to see him get another game or two but he'd be on thin ice at the moment given the competition for the last few spots in the team.

 

[BunjiMac]

Agree - He looks a natural forward. I would at times to play him as a one out full forward as think he is a tricky match up for opposition defences as is too agile and quick for a pure tall defender and too tall for a small defender. As we saw in the Norf game against similar players in his weight/experience division - he was way to clever for them.

We really don't have many genuine agile medium sized forwards on our list.

Kid looks a real confidence player and needs to believe he has got it.

This is exactly right, he is absolutely a confidence player and still doesn't have the belief.

The crows should remove all doubt and back him in for a long period. Give him that confidence and then see what player we have.

Those with really high ceilings should be given every opportunity to reach that ceiling. And, not everyone should be treated the same, because people and talent aren't the same.

I would have no issue with the crows doing this.

What I have issue with is the crows giving greater opportunity to those who are less talented and have lower ceilings in the hope they develop talent, which is god given.

We need to be able to recognise and utilise talent better and understand we may need to treat them differently.

Luke Hodge made an excellent point on radio, I'm paraphrasimg but he was saying some players have their own rules and you need to treat them differently because they could be the difference in a game. They would actively encourage these players to just go out there and do their thing and the rest of the team would cover for them. He mentioned this is how the treated Cyril but I assume Buddy as well.

Not saying this is exactly Cook, more likely Rankine, but it shows a real appreciation for the game and the type of approach you need to really be a championship team.

It's not about robots or a system but appreciating unique talent and what you need to do extract that talent to win games.

 

[Bearded Clam]

The 'made up' part is about people demanding we drop Cook to get Murphy back in the team. Nobody is saying that as you're aware.

As far as leeway for younger players is concerned, you don't just give people infinite rope because they are below a specific age/experience level. You are looking for signs they are going to be a good AFL player and that they are improving, while tolerating some inconsistency and mistakes more than you would for a senior player. Cook is in his 4th season, and he's just played a block of 5 games. While he has obvious upside, he needs to be turning the corner and starting to impact games, not averaging under 10 disposals while playing a role where he should be free to get a reasonable amount of the ball.

He's also out of contract, and at this stage is looking like a delist. I'm happy to see him get another game or two but he'd be on thin ice at the moment given the competition for the last few spots in the team.

“As far as leeway for younger players is concerned, you don't just give people infinite rope because they are below a specific age/experience level.“

Yeah…
You’re right..
Our club certainly doesnt do this..
it does it for our shite older, more experienced players, who dish up endless garbage for weeks/sometimes months on end instead!

And yet dump the young new player back to the sanfl after 1 poor outing..

Its brilliant list management and has served us so well for the past 7 years… the results of which clearly speak for themselves…

 

[BRL121]

Although Keays has been less damaging to the team in recent times.. mostly because they’ve finally got him away from the middle and hidden him in a forward pocket where he can “joe the goose” it up until the crows come home..

FTFY

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

This is exactly right, he is absolutely a confidence player and still doesn't have the belief.

The crows should remove all doubt and back him in for a long period. Give him that confidence and then see what player we have.

Those with really high ceilings should be given every opportunity to reach that ceiling. And, not everyone should be treated the same, because people and talent aren't the same.

I would have no issue with the crows doing this.

What I have issue with is the crows giving greater opportunity to those who are less talented and have lower ceilings in the hope they develop talent, which is god given.

We need to be able to recognise and utilise talent better and understand we may need to test them differently.

Luke Hodge made an excellent point on radio, I'm paraphrasimg but he was saying some players have their own rules and you need to treat them differently because they could be the difference in a game. They would actively encourage these players to just go out there and do their thing and the rest of the team would cover for them. He mentioned this is how the treated Cyril but I assume Buddy as well.

Not saying this is exactly Cook, more likely Rankine, but it shows a real appreciation for the game and the type of approach you need to really be a championship team.

It's not about robots or a system but appreciating unique talent and what you need to do extract that talent to win games.

Nicks disagrees.

 

[spenze]

I get the feeling sometimes that we will have Nicks for a long time and he will be dragged kicking and screaming into picking the correct side. There is enough talent on our list to make a shot at playing week 2 of finals but we won't find that out until we give a few more young guns the chance to have a handful of games in a row, to feel comfortable.

I believe we are in the position now that we start delivering cold truths to senior players, sadly, Nicks is way too close to the senior group to do this (which is a poor reflection on his people management style, the good guys should be the line coaches, not him, it's his arse on the line). If he wasn't like that, he'd be having a honest discussion with Smith, it would be criminal to move someone out to fit him in but he will.

He should also be having the discussion with Laird, he probably shouldn't be in the middle now and he still has what, 2 years on his contract, he either reinvents himself forward of centre or we look to trade (I'd rather the first)

Hombsch has to stand strong here or our changes will be

Out Curtin

In Smith

 

[FullyBigKPro]

I get the feeling sometimes that we will have Nicks for a long time and he will be dragged kicking and screaming into picking the correct side. There is enough talent on our list to make a shot at playing week 2 of finals but we won't find that out until we give a few more young guns the chance to have a handful of games in a row, to feel comfortable.

I believe we are in the position now that we start delivering cold truths to senior players, sadly, Nicks is way too close to the senior group to do this (which is a poor reflection on his people management style, the good guys should be the line coaches, not him, it's his arse on the line). If he wasn't like that, he'd be having a honest discussion with Smith, it would be criminal to move someone out to fit him in but he will.

He should also be having the discussion with Laird, he probably shouldn't be in the middle now and he still has what, 2 years on his contract, he either reinvents himself forward of centre or we look to trade (I'd rather the first)

Hombsch has to stand strong here or our changes will be

Out Curtin

In Smith

Imagine the day where we have a bona fide A grade mid we can insert with confidence into the centre bounce and finally say to Laird, 'thanks but your days in there are done'.

Will be truly a great day.

 

[Greenfinger]

Bit harsh, but I don’t think he’s right for the midfield anymore.

No disagreement there but he’s been fantastic for us over many years and doesn’t deserve to be in that group

 

[Greenfinger]

I get the feeling sometimes that we will have Nicks for a long time and he will be dragged kicking and screaming into picking the correct side. There is enough talent on our list to make a shot at playing week 2 of finals but we won't find that out until we give a few more young guns the chance to have a handful of games in a row, to feel comfortable.

I believe we are in the position now that we start delivering cold truths to senior players, sadly, Nicks is way too close to the senior group to do this (which is a poor reflection on his people management style, the good guys should be the line coaches, not him, it's his arse on the line). If he wasn't like that, he'd be having a honest discussion with Smith, it would be criminal to move someone out to fit him in but he will.

He should also be having the discussion with Laird, he probably shouldn't be in the middle now and he still has what, 2 years on his contract, he either reinvents himself forward of centre or we look to trade (I'd rather the first)

Hombsch has to stand strong here or our changes will be

Out Curtin

In Smith

The club could manage that better through clear KPIs on developing youth which could be on number of games to the 1-3 year players or something.

 

[FR0GGY]

The 'made up' part is about people demanding we drop Cook to get Murphy back in the team. Nobody is saying that as you're aware.

As far as leeway for younger players is concerned, you don't just give people infinite rope because they are below a specific age/experience level. You are looking for signs they are going to be a good AFL player and that they are improving, while tolerating some inconsistency and mistakes more than you would for a senior player. Cook is in his 4th season, and he's just played a block of 5 games. While he has obvious upside, he needs to be turning the corner and starting to impact games, not averaging under 10 disposals while playing a role where he should be free to get a reasonable amount of the ball.

He's also out of contract, and at this stage is looking like a delist. I'm happy to see him get another game or two but he'd be on thin ice at the moment given the competition for the last few spots in the team.

I’m struggling to understand why cook is in the gun yet Jones isn’t.
Jones averages 12 disposals over his 84 game career, cook averaging 1 less.
Very basic stats I know but people say cook needs to get more of it and yet we’ve put up with that from someone else for 84 games.

 

[dogs105]

I’m struggling to understand why cook is in the gun yet Jones isn’t.
Jones averages 12 disposals over his 84 game career, cook averaging 1 less.
Very basic stats I know but people say cook needs to get more of it and yet we’ve put up with that from someone else for 84 games.

Cook averaging 2.1 less. But Jones certainly doesn't get enough of the ball. Last year averaging 17 was better.
Last 2 seasons Jones has averaged 16.5. He needs to lift this.

As for in the gun, it would probably be based on this year where Cook's average is 8.4 but I really, really hope they don't drop him.

 

[FR0GGY]

Cook averaging 2.1 less. But Jones certainly doesn't get enough of the ball. Last year averaging 17 was better.
Last 2 seasons Jones has averaged 16.5. He needs to lift this.

As for in the gun, it would probably be based on this year where Cook's average is 8.4 but I really, really hope they don't drop him.

Which means his other two years were averaging 11ish disposals.
Cook could only dream of being gifted 44 games.

 

[dogs105]

Which means his other two years were averaging 11ish disposals.
Cook could only dream of being gifted 44 games.

11, 8, 12 and 13 were his first four years.

Cook absolutely should be 'gifted' more.

 

[FR0GGY]

11, 8, 12 and 13 were his first four years.

Cook absolutely should be 'gifted' more.

Looks like an 11 average to me

 

[dogs105]

Looks like an 11 average to me

probably just a tick over as the 2 lowest numbers were from the least games. Yep, it certainly took him a while to produce at a "just about acceptable" level, and his numbers have dropped a bit this year.

 

[BACCS]

Cook didn't get much of the ball on Thursday night, but what he did was quality.

We just need to hang tough & give him a block of games, rather than dropping after a quiet game.

It's easy to look quality if you're having 4 touches in a game! McHenry had more than 4 quality touches on Friday night, yet no one on here can stand him. He's had an extended run in the side and his only decent game was against North, what makes you think he is going to ever be better than what we currently see?

 

[Eagleboy2011]

ROB must be close to getting dropped. 1 mark in the match against a second-string PA ruck line up.
His ruck work appears ok.

 

[BACCS]

I am thinking most likely changes are Smith into the 22 for Cook and then Schoenberg replaces Cook as the sub.

 

[AFC979810]

The problem here is shape keeping is such a pivotal part of the role and one that becomes more important as you're going down the depth chart.

I am genuinely curious here. Can you name some other Shape Keepers at other clubs?

What exactly is shape keeping? What does it involve?

 

[FR0GGY]

It's easy to look quality if you're having 4 touches in a game! McHenry had more than 4 quality touches on Friday night, yet no one on here can stand him. He's had an extended run in the side and his only decent game was against North, what makes you think he is going to ever be better than what we currently see?

Because he’s very often a momentum killer.
Yes but you also have to subtract the bad things, not just look at the good things.

 

[dogs105]

I am thinking most likely changes are Smith into the 22 for Cook and then Schoenberg replaces Cook as the sub.

 

[FR0GGY]

I am genuinely curious here. Can you name some other Shape Keepers at other clubs?

What exactly is shape keeping? What does it involve?

I would have thought it was the clubs nutritionist.

 

[huludicidal]

I don't get where this obsession these boards have with Taylor comes from? I've watched a reasonable amount of SANFL and he rarely gets near it or has all that much impact.

I just don't see it.

“Rarely gets near it” might be a stretch. He has pretty consistently been in the top 5 disposal winners and top clearance winners for the SANFL side.

Let’s look at all of his SANFL performances in 2024:

R1: Didn’t play

R2 vs Centrals: 16 touches (13 kicks), 3 marks, 2 tackles, 4 clearances (3rd most in team), 3 inside 50s

R3 vs Glenelg: 20 touches, 2 marks, 5 tackles, 9 clearances (most clearances of any player for either team), 3 inside 50s

R4 vs North: 21 touches, 5 marks, 4 tackles, 2 clearances, 5 inside 50s and a goal (outperformed Dowling comfortably)

R5 vs Port: 18 touches, 5 tackles, 4 clearances, 3 inside 50s


He plays consistently better football than either of the likes of Murphy or Pedlar ever have at SANFL level, and looks a player to me. He’s also a very good kick of the footy and decision maker, which we lack. Will he play the same role at AFL level? Probably not, but he’s a good, smart footy player, in a squad littered with low football IQs and poor skills.

Averaging around the 19 possession mark might not seem like a lot, but you’d really only have Schoenberg and Dowling racking up consistently more than that in that side (and we all know Schoenberg can’t kick for shit). Oscar Ryan is starting to look really good coming out of defence and would probably be just as deserving of an AFL call-up as Taylor. Ryan really only has Smith who he can displace from the current AFL 23, whereas there’s a number of “questionable” players who Taylor could come in for.

Having said that, I would say the great minds in our selection panel no doubt have all of Murphy (proven failure), McHenry (proven failure), Dowling (fair enough), Berry (very limited versatility and can’t co-exist with Crouch and Laird), Jones (boring but I kinda get it), Sholl (no ability to lay tackles, break tackles, or kick with any penetration but can run really slowly all day and rack up dinky touches - in fairness, Sholl is good at finding space, I’ll give him that), Schoenberg (probably deserves 1 more chance at senior level but I’ll be surprised if he ever reaches 100 afl games because he’s just a terrible decision maker) and Cook (goes 45 mins between touches and tackling technique is Shollesque) ahead of Zac in the pecking order, so his actual chances of a debut in 2024 are slim at best.

 

[BACCS]

I would rather Schoenberg in the 22, just think that is the most likely changes we will see. If McHenry wasn't dropped before the Showdown, I find it very unlikely he's going out after his best performance of the season.

They dropped Hamill because he couldn't find the ball at AFL level after trying to give him an extended run, I see Cook going the same way given how well Schoenberg has been performing in the SANFL.