Prediction Changes vs Collingwood 1st Elim Final @ Optus SATURDAY 3rd OCT 6.10PM WST

[Miguel Sanchez]

His form was fine before he was cut. We've been over this time and time again.

OK, if you're going to spend two days writing a 2500-word rant in response to my fairly simple point, you'd better believe you're getting a Gunnar multiquote response.

He wasn't setting the world on fire, but neither was anyone at the time, he was hardly our worst when he was dropped.

If memory serves if you'd read the changes thread for round 5 I think you'd find Jetta's axing to be met with a fair amount of surprise at the time.

He was scapegoated because Simpson wanted his senior player scalp and Jetta looks "lazy and dissenterested" when he plays. It appeases the masses.

He can't well drop the underperforming leader quartet of Hurn, Darling, Kennedy and Cripps though can he? Who were in much worse form.

It was a bit of a surprise, yes. Maybe he was scapegoated. So? Nelson came in and grabbed his chance with both hands. He's in career best form. So is Cole. And Duggan. And Rotham's barely put a foot wrong, and will probably win our Rookie of the Year, getting games into him is extremely valuable. So how does Jetta get back into the side

And who did we flat track to get our season going again after Jetta left? 2 of the bottom 3 teams. Amazing. Brave change that one. Huge.

Is anyone actually arguing that dropping Jetta was the difference between winning and losing those games? You're arguing against yourself.

I want Jetta in this side because I don't think we have a chance of winning the flag without him.

He is class. The sort of player a top 4 team struggles to defend against because he can break a game wide open.

I didn't think we had a chance of winning a flag without Naitanui, Gaff and Sheppard, and I'm sure many people felt the same.

My Simpsons pride comment stems from Jetta's bizarre hiatus for 2 months before finally bizarrely getting thrown a lifeline as a forward.

It's hardly a bizarre hiatus unless you continually refuse to acknowledge that there was no spot available in our backline. Nelson took his spot, then played more than well enough to keep it. Rotham came in for McGovern and played well enough to hold his spot. So Jetta, if for no other reason than he wasn't playing, dropped down to ninth in the pecking order for seven defensive spots. And he was next in line - he was an emergency for four straight weeks before his eventual recall. We tried playing eight defenders for a couple of games with Cole and Nelson rotating on a wing, but even then there's no room for Jetta.

Equally, it was hardly a "bizarre" move to bring him in as a forward given the lack of other options we had in that area at the time. People on here were calling for it for weeks before it happened. And it worked pretty well, he was a couple of missed shots away from a really good game against Essendon.

From rumours, to Simpson and Co not acknowledging him in their press conferences, makes me think he's on the nose despite being in our best 22.

He's not in our best 22, for all of the reasons I've explained. I can't comment on the rumours. I do know that he didn't play the final two scratch matches in the first Qld hub after being dropped, for undisclosed reasons. Maybe he was on the nose. Maybe he threw the toys out of the cot. But it's hard to get your spot back if you're not even playing scratchies.

I don't know what you mean about Simpson and Co not acknowledging him in press conferences. I thought Simpson said a few times that he was in the mix.

I've posted statistics of Jettas "poor" first month and also Nelsons past month and there is a clear greater output from Jetta.

I'm sure the same would apply to Cole as well.

The problem with statistics for defenders is that they don't tell the whole story. I'm sure Jetta's stats are equal or better than the other guys, because offensively he's better than them. But defensively he's not.

So why no hate for those players? Because we've eked out 2 wins in that time. If one of the Saints or North games went the other way it'd be different.

I know everyone thinks our defense is suddenly "settled", but that's only because we've been winning, courtesy of our stretch of 6 games at home.

It doesn't mean it's better. The whole team looks a million bucks playing at Optus. Jetta did too in round 1, if you would recall.

I absolutely think we could have won the same 8 games on the trot with Jetta in the team. He's a victim of our disastrous first QLD hub. That is all.

Probably. Again, no one is arguing that Jetta was the difference between winning and losing.

Bit like Brander, only Brander has at least been giving further opportunities as the season has gone on. Jetta hasn't played in defense since round 4.

Brander was given further opportunities because spots opened up in the midfield and half-forward. He originally came in when Yeo was a late out. Then Waterman broke his hand. Then Cripps left the hub. Then Redden broke his thumb, etc etc. There was a spot available for him. There wasn't one in defence for Jetta (except the second half of the Bulldogs game, when he went back and played well. Then he did his calf). It's as simple as that. It's not about Simpson's ego.

Jetta's been a victim of circumstances, and one of those circumstances is that he got (probably harshly) dropped when we lost three in a row. Sure. But the other circumstances are that the players in his spot have stayed fit and in form. It's not about Simpson's ego, and it's misleading to suggest it is.

He may or may not come in for a final. We probably don't need the extra height of Rotham against either the Bulldogs or Collingwood, so a spot may open up there. But if he doesn't, it's not going to be because of Simpson's ego.

 

[kerrazy]

Nobody really needs to "go out" if Jetta comes back.


Look at my changes I posted earlier.

IN: Shuey, Jetta, Redden, Cripps
OUT: Ainsworth, Foley, Williams, Petrucelle.



None of Cole or Nelson or Rotham need to go out. Leave Duggan playing up on the wing and bring in Jetta back to defense.

It means you don't lose any of this "settled" awesome defense we apparently don't want to change, whilst also adding Jetta's offensive skills in the back half.

Reassess when/if McGovern comes back.


Downside to this suggestion is that Allen goes back to playing FWD/RCK now that Williams is out. Which was probably going to happen anyway.

And we'd have an extra mid on the flank. Something I'd normally be against, but all our small forwards this year are sh*t anyway so a mid can hardly be worse.




I'm tipping we won't have Jetta in 2021. I think this is our last chance to use him as a weapon before he's gone.

If that comes at the cost of Nelson, Cole or Rotham missing this one finals campaign so we have a better shot, i'd do it. Question is whether Simpson sees it.

This this this. Duggan has shown capability as a mid, let's back him in as one. Jetta is too good too be sitting on the pine.

 

[RookiePick]

OK, if you're going to spend two days writing a 2500-word rant in response to my fairly simple point, you'd better believe you're getting a Gunnar multiquote response.



It was a bit of a surprise, yes. Maybe he was scapegoated. So? Nelson came in and grabbed his chance with both hands. He's in career best form. So is Cole. And Duggan. And Rotham's barely put a foot wrong, and will probably win our Rookie of the Year, getting games into him is extremely valuable. So how does Jetta get back into the side



Is anyone actually arguing that dropping Jetta was the difference between winning and losing those games? You're arguing against yourself.



I didn't think we had a chance of winning a flag without Naitanui, Gaff and Sheppard, and I'm sure many people felt the same.



It's hardly a bizarre hiatus unless you continually refuse to acknowledge that there was no spot available in our backline. Nelson took his spot, then played more than well enough to keep it. Rotham came in for McGovern and played well enough to hold his spot. So Jetta, if for no other reason than he wasn't playing, dropped down to ninth in the pecking order for seven defensive spots. And he was next in line - he was an emergency for four straight weeks before his eventual recall. We tried playing eight defenders for a couple of games with Cole and Nelson rotating on a wing, but even then there's no room for Jetta.

Equally, it was hardly a "bizarre" move to bring him in as a forward given the lack of other options we had in that area at the time. People on here were calling for it for weeks before it happened. And it worked pretty well, he was a couple of missed shots away from a really good game against Essendon.



He's not in our best 22, for all of the reasons I've explained. I can't comment on the rumours. I do know that he didn't play the final two scratch matches in the first Qld hub after being dropped, for undisclosed reasons. Maybe he was on the nose. Maybe he threw the toys out of the cot. But it's hard to get your spot back if you're not even playing scratchies.

I don't know what you mean about Simpson and Co not acknowledging him in press conferences. I thought Simpson said a few times that he was in the mix.



The problem with statistics for defenders is that they don't tell the whole story. I'm sure Jetta's stats are equal or better than the other guys, because offensively he's better than them. But defensively he's not.



Probably. Again, no one is arguing that Jetta was the difference between winning and losing.



Brander was given further opportunities because spots opened up in the midfield and half-forward. He originally came in when Yeo was a late out. Then Waterman broke his hand. Then Cripps left the hub. Then Redden broke his thumb, etc etc. There was a spot available for him. There wasn't one in defence for Jetta (except the second half of the Bulldogs game, when he went back and played well. Then he did his calf). It's as simple as that. It's not about Simpson's ego.

Jetta's been a victim of circumstances, and one of those circumstances is that he got (probably harshly) dropped when we lost three in a row. Sure. But the other circumstances are that the players in his spot have stayed fit and in form. It's not about Simpson's ego, and it's misleading to suggest it is.

He may or may not come in for a final. We probably don't need the extra height of Rotham against either the Bulldogs or Collingwood, so a spot may open up there. But if he doesn't, it's not going to be because of Simpson's ego.

Cop that Sharky

 

[Ok Boomer]

Never go full Gunnar.

 

[squashface]

Gotta side with Dank Sharts on this one.

Jetta should be in the side

 

[Dark Sharks]

Fivey i'm not multiquoting you back so piss right off off.


As far as my 'rant' goes, mate i was on my phone and it's hard to post on this s**t website off an android without it looking like a poem so EAD.

. We won 8 in a row after he got dropped.
He is so lazy defensively that is why he hasn't played in defence in his 2nd stint this year.

^ Please refer to the above post which is why i referenced winning and losing with Jetta in the team.

So no, i'm not "arguing with myself".

I've been going round and round having these Jetta arguments in multiple threads, so if it felt like my post wasn't directed entirely at you, it's because it wasn't.



If you'd stop being so dismissive of a differing opinion for 3 seconds you might actually look at the information in my posts, rather than one comment.

For a former mod, you've got to be the most dismissive person on this board i reckon. And that's not me attacking you, i think it's just a fact.

Not to be confused with Badge being the most hated.

You see a sentence, or content you don't agree with and instantly just quote it and dismiss it. It's why i think you clash constantly with so many people with out there opinions that don't necessarily follow your perspective.


In this case my "Put aside your pride Simpson" sentence triggered you automatically come out with a "Good one dickhead" response without actually looking at the Jetta inclusion on it's merit.


Statistics you ignore. Differing opinions you ignore. But a wayward comment will have you seeing red.





Good day.

 

[Art OF war]

Prefer to play the Dogs. Think we annihilate them.

Shuey Cripps and Redden in. Foley Petch and Bailey out.

Jetta may have played his last game :/

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Oh noes my two dads are fighting

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Fivey i'm not multiquoting you back so piss right off off.


As far as my 'rant' goes, mate i was on my phone and it's hard to post on this sh*t website off an android without it looking like a poem so EAD.






^ Please refer to the above post which is why i referenced winning and losing with Jetta in the team.

So no, i'm not "arguing with myself".

I've been going round and round having these Jetta arguments in multiple threads, so if it felt like my post wasn't directed entirely at you, it's because it wasn't.



If you'd stop being so dismissive of a differing opinion for 3 seconds you might actually look at the information in my posts, rather than one comment.

For a former mod, you've got to be the most dismissive person on this board i reckon. And that's not me attacking you, i think it's just a fact.

Not to be confused with Badge being the most hated.

You see a sentence, or content you don't agree with and instantly just quote it and dismiss it. It's why i think you clash constantly with so many people with out there opinions that don't necessarily follow your perspective.


In this case my "Put aside your pride Simpson" sentence triggered you automatically come out with a "Good one dickhead" response without actually looking at the Jetta inclusion on it's merit.


Statistics you ignore. Differing opinions you ignore. But a wayward comment will have you seeing red.





Good day.

I’ve looked at the Jetta inclusion on its merit. I’m not necessarily against it. But I think it’s difficult to justify because we’ve got a settled backline and a queue for spots as it is. Plus (and this is a new point), there’s a limit to the number of underdone players we can bring in for a finals game. If we’re bringing back Shuey, Redden and Cripps who’ve barely played in the last month, how many more “just barely made it to the line” players can we include before it becomes too risky?

And yes, it was your “put aside your pride Simpson” comment that I initially disagreed with and responded to pithily. Because that’s what I had an issue with, not the overall idea of bringing in Jetta. That then triggered you to have your android-melting rant about why Jetta should be in the side and why it was “bizarre” that he was out of the side so long. It’s not bizarre, it’s quite clearly explainable. So I explained it.

If that’s me being dismissive, so be it. I don’t actually give a s**t.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I’ve looked at the Jetta inclusion on its merit. I’m not necessarily against it. But I think it’s difficult to justify because we’ve got a settled backline and a queue for spots as it is. Plus (and this is a new point), there’s a limit to the number of underdone players we can bring in for a finals game. If we’re bringing back Shuey, Redden and Cripps who’ve barely played in the last month, how many more “just barely made it to the line” players can we include before it becomes too risky?

And yes, it was your “put aside your pride Simpson” comment that I initially disagreed with and responded to pithily. Because that’s what I had an issue with, not the overall idea of bringing in Jetta. That then triggered you to have your android-melting rant about why Jetta should be in the side and why it was “bizarre” that he was out of the side so long. It’s not bizarre, it’s quite clearly explainable. So I explained it.

If that’s me being dismissive, so be it. I don’t actually give a sh*t.

You keep leaning on this point about our "defense being settled"

Settled in what way? Because we've won? Because we've kept our opponents from scoring? Settled because there has been minimal changes?


Our ball movement out of the back half is shocking right now. Our gross game we were still lucky to be in vs the Bulldogs, the St Kilda arm wrestle that we pinched, the horrendous 2 hours of football against north. They showed heart, but system and our ball movement was non existent.

Our defense was a complete and utter shambles against Richmond as well. Jesus.


"Settled" though.


Is our strategy of full back kick ins also thanks to this settled defense? I'd love to get your thoughts on whether you think having Nelson or Hurn running 10m to the right of screen and kicking it long down the line hoping Naitanui can make a contest is the best way to go?


Without banging on about it, the settled defense we currently have SHOULD be rearranged to include the classiest ball user in the AFL before he retires. It's as simple as that.

The team is better with him in it. The defense is better with him in it. Fitness permitting, he needs to be playing.


And you need to delete your account.

 

[THE A5]

I miss DS when he was just a troll that repeated the same stale joke.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I miss DS when he was just a troll that repeated the same stale joke.

And you need to delete your account.

I will always be that man.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Mitch Brown to the forward pocket and Michael Gardner with an an amputated leg to Full Forward.

Sorted

 

[THE A5]

I will always be that man.

Can you please post the preseason report from few years ago about Venables. Feel like pure s**t, need a good DS pick me up.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Never go full Gunnar.

No return of the space turds?

 

[Broken_Chairs]

I miss DS when he was just a troll that repeated the same stale joke.

Fold DS

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I’ve looked at the Jetta inclusion on its merit. I’m not necessarily against it. But I think it’s difficult to justify because we’ve got a settled backline and a queue for spots as it is. Plus (and this is a new point), there’s a limit to the number of underdone players we can bring in for a finals game. If we’re bringing back Shuey, Redden and Cripps who’ve barely played in the last month, how many more “just barely made it to the line” players can we include before it becomes too risky?

And yes, it was your “put aside your pride Simpson” comment that I initially disagreed with and responded to pithily. Because that’s what I had an issue with, not the overall idea of bringing in Jetta. That then triggered you to have your android-melting rant about why Jetta should be in the side and why it was “bizarre” that he was out of the side so long. It’s not bizarre, it’s quite clearly explainable. So I explained it.

If that’s me being dismissive, so be it. I don’t actually give a sh*t.

When the players they are replacing are probably Bailey Williams, Petch, Foley, and Anus, does it matter if they are underdone? They are still a step up.

 

[THE A5]

Fold DS

You can’t fold a brick s**t house

 

[Doashuey]

Cop that Sharky

I have heard that Miguel occasionally hits the crack.

 

[BlueandGoldforever]

Further to DS's stats the other day, here's some additional stat comparisons between Jetta and Nelson for the aspects that Jetta is supposedly weak in:

Averages per match
Lewis the GOAT: 2.6 tackles, 2.8 CPs, 1 one-percenter, 0.8 clearances, zero slips
Slippy Jackson: 1.9 tackles, 3.3 CPs, 2 one-percenters, 0.5 clearances, 2 slips

Not much separating them really. If the argument was Jetta vs McGinnity or Duggan or something like that, it'd be a different story altogether. But other than backing in the youf, there's no real reason why Nelson should be retained over a fit Jetta.

Whether we drop Rotham and play Jetta alongside Nelson is another question, but if we're playing two KPD, I can see the reasoning for playing Frotham as a third tall.

I am presuming CP stands for contested possessions?

 

[jaxxon]

Mitch Brown to the forward pocket and Michael Gardner with an an amputated leg to Full Forward.

Sorted

No room for Travis Gaspar?

 

[Tyberious Funk]

I suspect the issue with Jetta is that with the expected reduction in list sizes next year and the fact that he's 31 means his papers have been stamped. Consequently, the match committee probably figured it was better to get experience into a younger player -- particularly with there being plenty of options in the backline. Obviously, with so many injuries, he comes back into the selection frame.

Under Simpson, the club has been pretty good at blooding youngsters and keeping the list turning over. The fact that we've been able to do that and still win games shows the approach is working. There are still some pretty bad drafts that we are feeling the effect of (eg, 2015, 2016).

 

[NSLK]

No room for Travis Gaspar?

Yeah easy, replaces Lynch

 

[FKASC]

I am presuming CP stands for contested possessions?

Yeah

as you can tell both are contested beasts

 

[WestCoast05]

Gotta side with Dank Sharts on this one.

Jetta should be in the side

I absolutely agree that Jetta should be in the side.
Even if we let him ease into a small forward role - even when he wanders down the wing if in the right position he is able to kick goals from 55m out!

I dont agree however that he has been left out of the team cos of 'Simmo's Pride'.