Preview Changes vs Collingwood

[Wood_Duck]

All this talk about fitness and crouch, wines seems to be doing ok in his first year.

Exactly.

 

[rayven]

Exactly.

Is wines an in and under mid bulking up his body for the rigors of that sought of role crouch is when thompson retires? or is he a runner?

 

[Crowked]

The key to your post is whether the club agree with your conclusion that the season is already gone.

Yeh. In another 2 weeks it will be mathematically over. The reality is we arent in the premiership race, so we might as well give these guys as much exposure as we can. We, just like GC and GWS need to get games into our young players ASAP because they are going to be our chance to be in the premiership race in years to come. More SANFL isnt what they need, its stifling their development IMO.

 

[Crowked]

Is wines an in and under mid bulking up his body for the rigors of that sought of role crouch is when thompson retires? or is he a runner?

Wines already has a mans body, thats his advantage over other kids his age.

 

[Geoffa32]

Would like to see Kerridge, Lyons and Grigg in.

Out McKernan Riley and not sure who else. Jeanch maybe?



Although part of me wants to keep Jenkins up forward and bring in Angus Insurance to help Jacobs out.

 

[Elite Crow]

Kerridge didn't train nursing a sore knee so he's no chance

 

[Skippy231]

What would be the possibility of Dowdell coming in? We have a rookie that can be upgraded with the injury to Pigdog and if the alternative is big Gus then i recon Dowdell should be given a chance.

Im thinking Ins: Grigg, Lyons, Dowdell -> Smack, Riley, Jaensch

What will happen: Out Smack, Riley -> In: Petrenko, Mackay

 

[Vader]

Wont giving them stings of consectutive games increase their fitness? Dropping the intensity by sending them back to the SANFL wont thats for sure.

Playing games will improve their match fitness, but won't do anything to solve the problems with their base fitness level.

Playing SANFL games achieves much the same result, while also allowing them to recover physically from the additional stresses that the AFL standard puts on their young bodies. Thus they actually get closer to being able to play again, rather than being run into the ground.

No doubt our PS wasnt good enough. We need to lift the standard next season for sure. Sending these guys for a rest in the SANFL now though wont help them and with our season already gone, IMO they need to suck it up and just do their best at AFL level for the rest of the season.

Disagree. We need to manage their games carefully, so we don't destroy them physically. If that means they alternate a handful of games in the AFL, followed by a handful of games in the SANFL, then so be it. It's much better for the player's development than destroying them physically and mentally.

As for fixing the pre-season training.. on that we can agree.

 

[Vader]

What would be the possibility of Dowdell coming in? We have a rookie that can be upgraded with the injury to Pigdog and if the alternative is big Gus then i recon Dowdell should be given a chance.

Im thinking Ins: Grigg, Lyons, Dowdell -> Smack, Riley, Jaensch

What will happen: Out Smack, Riley -> In: Petrenko, Mackay

It's a unique line of thought...

I would have thought Hartigan was more likely to get a game, given that they promoted him to the senior list and named him on the emergency list last week.

Is Dowdell even playing in the SANFL seniors? Honest question, not intended to be rhetorical. If not, then it's a massive jump from the SANFL magoos all the way to the AFL.

 

[Vader]

Yeh. In another 2 weeks it will be mathematically over. The reality is we arent in the premiership race, so we might as well give these guys as much exposure as we can. We, just like GC and GWS need to get games into our young players ASAP because they are going to be our chance to be in the premiership race in years to come. More SANFL isnt what they need, its stifling their development IMO.

Is it? Really?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Did Sando really say Crouch might need a rest? After how many AFL games in a row? Is he really considering resting our leading mid for the last 2 weeks when he's just hit form?

Starting to really worry about some of the crap he is coming out with.

In his PC, He said that he was running on the spot towards the end if the game Saturday night. With a 6 day break, he wasn't sure if he could come up and have a positive influence with his limited fitness base.

I'd say a 50/50 that he gets a rest.

 

[Skippy231]

It's a unique line of thought...

I would have thought Hartigan was more likely to get a game, given that they promoted him to the senior list and named him on the emergency list last week.

Is Dowdell even playing in the SANFL seniors? Honest question, not intended to be rhetorical. If not, then it's a massive jump from the SANFL magoos all the way to the AFL.

Yeah moved to Centrals for more senior SANFL game time, not a big possession winner but has some size about him and is aggressive, my only thought is that with Mckernan out we may need an extra tall that isn't Angus.

http://www.afc.com.au/video/2013-07-01/dowdells-boundary-line-beauty

We should bring in a small as we are playing at the G and its a night game so it will likely be greasy conditions. Hartigan in if we want to replace a defender but our big man stocks are looking rather depleted

 

[NTRabbit]

Is Dowdell even playing in the SANFL seniors? Honest question, not intended to be rhetorical. If not, then it's a massive jump from the SANFL magoos all the way to the AFL.

He's been playing first ruck for the Bulldogs league side for most of the season, if memory serves; he certainly did this weekend, 26 hit outs and 3 disposals in the win over Westies.

 

[Vader]

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like he could be an option, with McKernan on the sidelines (unfortunately for only 2 weeks). I wouldn't bet on him being selected though.

I think they want to see a bit of Hartigan first up. Walker will be back next year, and back to his best in 2015. Thus our forward line woes are relatively short term. At the other end of the ground, Rutten probably only has 1-2 years left in him and Talia is the only other proven KPP defender on our list. I think they'd like to start grooming Rutten's replacement as soon as possible. The only options right now are Hartigan & Siggins - and the latter is a very raw 1st year draftee. Hartigan is a 1st year draftee as well, but is several years older and has a much more mature body as a result.

 

[NTRabbit]

Presser on right now:

Riley out for 6 months
Callinan strained a quad
Johnston needs more SANFL games for fitness before a recall
Decision on Vince in or out on Friday

 

[Vader]

That could well be career over for Riley. Not a good way to go out. Best case scenario is that he's delisted and re-drafted in the Rookie Draft, which is probably a fair outcome given that he was injured in the line of duty.

No surprise there with LJ. I doubt we'll see much of him this year - and he'll more than likely be delisted at the end of the season.

Fingers crossed that Vince pulls through. No coincidence that he was off the ground when the Weagles kicked those last 3 goals on Saturday night.

 

[Crowked]

Playing games will improve their match fitness, but won't do anything to solve the problems with their base fitness level.

Playing SANFL games achieves much the same result, while also allowing them to recover physically from the additional stresses that the AFL standard puts on their young bodies. Thus they actually get closer to being able to play again, rather than being run into the ground.

Disagree. We need to manage their games carefully, so we don't destroy them physically. If that means they alternate a handful of games in the AFL, followed by a handful of games in the SANFL, then so be it. It's much better for the player's development than destroying them physically and mentally.

As for fixing the pre-season training.. on that we can agree.

I dont subscribe to the destroying them physically theory. If you need to cut back a bit, take out a training session and have a theory lesson or something. The game each week makes up for maybe 50% of what they do each week, maybe less. Crouch is 19 but some of the othrs we are babying are 3 season into their careers and should be up to playing full games of AFL every week.

Yes too much SANFL can be stifling because they arent being pushed to reach their potential, they do it easily and gain nothing from it develpment wise. The way to increase the limits is to push the boundaries.

 

[Vader]

At this stage, playing them in the SANFL isn't about developing them, so much as allowing them to recover from their stint at the higher level, prior to returning to that level.

I agree that the likes of Lyons should be up to playing full AFL games by now. The fact that he's not is a condemnation of the fitness program that Sando has instituted. Crouch.. not so much. It takes a while for youngsters to build their tank - some are blessed with a high degree of natural fitness, some have to work at it. I suspect that Lyons & Crouch both fall into the latter category, while the likes of VB fall into the former. Not every player is born equal. Crouch has only had 2 pre-seasons. It took Dangerfield longer than that before he was ready to move permanently into the midfield, so why the higher expectations on Crouch?

 

[Bacon8]

Is wines an in and under mid bulking up his body for the rigors of that sought of role crouch is when thompson retires? or is he a runner?

Whatever he is, the Port coach thought it necessary to start him as the sub in a game, to give him some sort of rest. That changed when Dom was injured early, and Wines shows Ken that he didn't need the rest

 

[rayven]

I agree that the likes of Lyons should be up to playing full AFL games by now. The fact that he's not is a condemnation of the fitness program that Sando has instituted.

I think we overestimated the amount the game would slow down as result of administrative policy by the AFL to achieve that. We have chosen the last two years to explore more traditional football philosophies. Essendon chose a more areobic style and look where that got them?

I would say at this point the club will know how next year will pan out better than us and whether or not to abandon the more physical footy we wish and our trying to teach the list to play.

If you look at the hammering our list has taken and the the developmental nature of it, with the injury to our key forward and the extra running required, I think the woes you people see are to be expected. All things considered.

 

[Jack is Back]

I will have to revise my view that Thommo was injured last week and needs a rest.

He was voted third best on ground in the match against the Eagles on Saturday night in the AFL Coaches Award. Only one team gave him votes. If it was us, does it confirm that our coaches are clueless? If it was them, were they trolling or considering a contract offer?

I didn't think he was quite as bad as some posters had suggested (trade him, retire him etc) but I find it hard to see that he was our best player in someone's eyes.

How did others see his match?

 

[Elite Crow]

He's been playing first ruck for the Bulldogs league side for most of the season, if memory serves; he certainly did this weekend, 26 hit outs and 3 disposals in the win over Westies.

No he hasn't, he only switched from South a month ago

 

[cmndstab]

How did others see his match?

I think he was nowhere near as bad as some here have said, but not even close to third best on ground.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

Couple of those DT could do nothing about either. Hes one of the least of our worries.

Agreed. He was unlucky on the weekend. Kennedy kicked 4:

1. Free kick Sauce gave away. Kennedy admittedly had outbodied DT and was in position A to mark the ball, but we will never know.
2. Mark playing in front from a scrubby kick. Maybe DT could have done better but sometimes those sort of kicks land in forwards' laps.
3. Snap at goal while DT was on the bench.
4. On the run on the left foot. Got away from DT, who lost his feet. Still, pretty tough to defend if a key forward is going to slot them from the pocket on their opposite foot on the run.

He would be top 5 in our B&F.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

Disagree. We need to manage their games carefully, so we don't destroy them physically. If that means they alternate a handful of games in the AFL, followed by a handful of games in the SANFL, then so be it. It's much better for the player's development than destroying them physically and mentally.

Is there any evidence (or even any suggestion) that playing too many games at AFL level early in their careers is bad for a player's development? Who has been destroyed physically and mentally by playing too much AFL footy too soon?

Come this time next year, will Crouch or Lyons (for example) even remember whether they played 1 more or less game at AFL level and will the fact that they played 1 more, or 5 more, be holding them back somehow?

I just don't buy that too many consecutive games can have an adverse effect on a player's development. Maybe in the short term their performance will plateau or worsen due to accumulated fatigue, but I can't see how it would break a player's career.