Preview Changes vs Essendon - Battle of the bastards, 17th v 18th - It's a Wag-vasion

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HANDSOLO

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I don't mind these changes but it's the senior blokes that need to step up so the fringe players can come in and do their job. I thought Corey Wagner was ok in round 1 had the team been better prepared and he probably keeps his spot. Can't be good for your confidence if you're in and out of the team all the time. Hopefully this week we'll settle.
I agree with you on the senior players. The sh*t we have served up the last couple of weeks feels like the kind of malaise that is very hard to change.
 

Demon 16

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I mean aside from the first two picks it looked like we had some quality later ones but now I'm not so sure.
I think we did ok getting Stretch, ANB and OMac with late picks. It wasn’t a very deep draft.

We’ve also recruited Lever (noting he’s been mostly injured but is a star if he can stay on).

We rookied AVB and elevated Nev that year too so I reckon it was a very good draft.

Fair enough players like Stretch, ANB and OMac aren’t looking fantastic after a couple of losses - but they are all in the improve and by 25/26 years old they’ll still be good quality AFL level players in my opinion.

Players we could have otherwise got?

Jordan De Goey (But would have cost us one of Brayshaw or Petracca).

Heeney was locked to Sydney.

Mitch McGovern and Harris Andrews are the only other 2 decent ones that went late - but that’s pretty good strike rate I’m thinking.
 

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Topkent

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I think we did ok getting Stretch, ANB and OMac with late picks. It wasn’t a very deep draft.

We’ve also recruited Lever (noting he’s been mostly injured but is a star if he can stay on).

We rookied AVB and elevated Nev that year too so I reckon it was a very good draft.

Fair enough players like Stretch, ANB and OMac aren’t looking fantastic after a couple of losses - but they are all in the improve and by 25/26 years old they’ll still be good quality AFL level players in my opinion.

Players we could have otherwise got?

Jordan De Goey (But would have cost us one of Brayshaw or Petracca).

Heeney was locked to Sydney.

Mitch McGovern and Harris Andrews are the only other 2 decent ones that went late - but that’s pretty good strike rate I’m thinking.
Pretty arguable that all of these were better than what we got. Richmond did insanely well

McLean
Maynard
Dale
Daniel
McGovern
Andrews
Butler
Short
Saad
Castagna
Lambert
McKenna
 

Topkent

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Problem is that pick 2 an 3 if developed properly can be era defining selections but Brayshaw is a good not great prospect and Petracca looks further away than when he started.

Geelong literally went out an got Kelly who looks better than both for way less atm.
 

FootyGuy13

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When was the last time a team had two sets of brothers playing? I think the last time we had two sets was maybe 98 when we had both febeys and alex and junior Mcdonalds. Although who knows if they ever played in the same game
Has there been a better double brother duo than that of Burgoynes and Cornes in the 21st century?
 

Tulip

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We can't clear out the forward line like we did last year to isolate TMac and Melksham, so we need to turf out the slow mid-sizers. Sparrow out is a good start, now we need to get Hunt and C.Wagner crumbing as an interim measure to at least sort out the structure.
 

Tulip

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Problem is that pick 2 an 3 if developed properly can be era defining selections but Brayshaw is a good not great prospect and Petracca looks further away than when he started.

Geelong literally went out an got Kelly who looks better than both for way less atm.
I know you're on a bit of a Brayshaw crusade, and you're right his kicking is sloppy, but every other club is salivating over him and for good reason. He's absolutely a great prospect. There's maybe a dozen other prolific ball winners in the AFL like him, and he lost two years of his four to concussion so is still working on his game. He'll get there. He won't ever be a laser kick which is disappointing, but guys like T.Mitchell make it work by being tidy off the boot. Easy to forget, but Jones did the same during his peak and went from a poor kick to a really good one. Has sadly gone downhill on that front again now he has less time on the ball. Kelly was pick 24, but as seen last year, he comes with risks. Very unlikely to be at Geelong next year
 

Tulip

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I mean aside from the first two picks it looked like we had some quality later ones but now I'm not so sure.
You can't judge the team based off a couple of all-round terrible games. ANB and OMac have been bad, but they have played a lot of good footy to date. Stretch hasn't had a chance this season either. And AVB is bloody great.
 

Topkent

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I know you're on a bit of a Brayshaw crusade, and you're right his kicking is sloppy, but every other club is salivating over him and for good reason. He's absolutely a great prospect. There's maybe a dozen other prolific ball winners in the AFL like him, and he lost two years of his four to concussion so is still working on his game. He'll get there. He won't ever be a laser kick which is disappointing, but guys like T.Mitchell make it work by being tidy off the boot. Easy to forget, but Jones did the same during his peak and went from a poor kick to a really good one. Has sadly gone downhill on that front again now he has less time on the ball. Kelly was pick 24, but as seen last year, he comes with risks. Very unlikely to be at Geelong next year
He averaged 26 disposals last year.

There were 30 players who averaged more an a shedload who average similar

I look down the list at some of the names an I don't see Brayshaw as a standout over them
Neale
Adams
Duncan
Cunnington
Ross
Mitchell
Crouch
Redden
Prestia
Lyons

Etc

All very good AFL players, an Brayshaw would be more valuable if we didn't already have Oliver who prefers to handball and Viney who is even worse at kicking

But those guys didn't cost us pick 2.
 

Tulip

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He averaged 26 disposals last year.

There were 30 players who averaged more an a shedload who average similar

I look down the list at some of the names an I don't see Brayshaw as a standout over them
Neale
Adams
Duncan
Cunnington
Ross
Mitchell
Crouch
Redden
Prestia
Lyons

Etc

All very good AFL players, an Brayshaw would be more valuable if we didn't already have Oliver who prefers to handball and Viney who is even worse at kicking

But those guys didn't cost us pick 2.
Neale and Mitchell are two genuinely elite players. Cunnington, Prestia and Duncan have five years on Gus. Adams is an even worse kick than Brayshaw, and spends a lot of time out the middle. Redden played in the guts for the Premiers. Crouch is fairly similar to Brayshaw. Lyons and Ross are good players but not much more than that.

Most importantly, Brayshaw is younger than all of them. Even more importantly, he wasn't pick 2 he was pick 3. Even more importantly, Oliver was pick 4. Brayshaw has been really poor by foot this year in particular, but he proved in his first year that he can kick well off both feet. Needs to work with the coaches to fix it.

Masten
S.Hill
Martin
Day
Tyson
Plowman
Billings
Brayshaw
Mills
McCluggage
Dow
Rankine

That's a list of all the pick threes going back to when we began being sh*t. Aside from Dusty, Brayshaw is already much better than all of them. McCluggage looks a beauty too, and its too early for Dow and Rankine, but its dangerous to go back to the old "high picks are everything" mantra.
 

Topkent

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Neale and Mitchell are two genuinely elite players. Cunnington, Prestia and Duncan have five years on Gus. Adams is an even worse kick than Brayshaw, and spends a lot of time out the middle. Redden played in the guts for the Premiers. Crouch is fairly similar to Brayshaw. Lyons and Ross are good players but not much more than that.

Most importantly, Brayshaw is younger than all of them. Even more importantly, he wasn't pick 2 he was pick 3. Even more importantly, Oliver was pick 4. Brayshaw has been really poor by foot this year in particular, but he proved in his first year that he can kick well off both feet. Needs to work with the coaches to fix it.

Masten
S.Hill
Martin
Day
Tyson
Plowman
Billings
Brayshaw
Mills
McCluggage
Dow
Rankine

That's a list of all the pick threes going back to when we began being sh*t. Aside from Dusty, Brayshaw is already much better than all of them. McCluggage looks a beauty too, and its too early for Dow and Rankine, but its dangerous to go back to the old "high picks are everything" mantra.
Exactly, we paid pick 3 for an inside midfielder which other clubs have gotten with picks far later in the draft.
Neale was pick 58
Mitchell was traded for pick 12


I never said Brayshaw was a failure but the main point you ignored is that with Oliver an Viney already, having a 3rd player who doesn't dispose of it well an needs to play inside isn't the ideal list formation. In fact if Sparrow turns out to be the player they are hoping he will be another inside dominant poor kicking mid.

I also disagree he was a good kick in his first year. People thought he looked good because we gave Garlett space over the back an Gus would just launch it over the top for him to run onto. It's the exact kick he does now except our forward line is clogged up.
 

Tulip

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Exactly, we paid pick 3 for an inside midfielder which other clubs have gotten with picks far later in the draft.
Neale was pick 58
Mitchell was traded for pick 12


I never said Brayshaw was a failure but the main point you ignored is that with Oliver an Viney already, having a 3rd player who doesn't dispose of it well an needs to play inside isn't the ideal list formation. In fact if Sparrow turns out to be the player they are hoping he will be another inside dominant poor kicking mid.

I also disagree he was a good kick in his first year. People thought he looked good because we gave Garlett space over the back an Gus would just launch it over the top for him to run onto. It's the exact kick he does now except our forward line is clogged up.
But Oliver was pick four and we all rave about him? What were you hoping for from pick three?
 

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Topkent

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But Oliver was pick four and we all rave about him? What were you hoping for from pick three?
Oliver is the star talent you hope for with a pick that early. Brayshaw is a very good player but I don't see the elite ceiling myself. He would look better in another midfield that didn't already have Viney and Oliver. Like he would look sensational at Essendon.

Anyway atleast he's playing to a level. Petracca at the moment isn't even close to Brayshaws output
 

Tulip

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Oliver is the star talent you hope for with a pick that early. Brayshaw is a very good player but I don't see the elite ceiling myself. He would look better in another midfield that didn't already have Viney and Oliver. Like he would look sensational at Essendon.

Anyway atleast he's playing to a level. Petracca at the moment isn't even close to Brayshaws output
Yeah this is why I'm a bit confused. Gus is an elite ball winner with a key flaw that he's shown some potential of changing. Petracca just looks lost and slow.
 

Topkent

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Yeah this is why I'm a bit confused. Gus is an elite ball winner with a key flaw that he's shown some potential of changing. Petracca just looks lost and slow.
Mostly because I'm extremely concerned about our midfield if Petracca falls away. I don't think we can keep going forward with the mix we have, even Harmes who had some tricks as a forward early only does inside work now.
 

Fork n Hell

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Exactly, we paid pick 3 for an inside midfielder which other clubs have gotten with picks far later in the draft.
Neale was pick 58
Mitchell was traded for pick 12


I never said Brayshaw was a failure but the main point you ignored is that with Oliver an Viney already, having a 3rd player who doesn't dispose of it well an needs to play inside isn't the ideal list formation. In fact if Sparrow turns out to be the player they are hoping he will be another inside dominant poor kicking mid.

I also disagree he was a good kick in his first year. People thought he looked good because we gave Garlett space over the back an Gus would just launch it over the top for him to run onto. It's the exact kick he does now except our forward line is clogged up.
I agree on Sparrow. it seemed a strange selection to me at the time, to use our first pick to go for another big bodied inside mid type with a poor kick, when we were crying out for small forwards and some outside running/half back types with good skills. I know we got those types with our later picks but our priorities should of been the other way around imo.
 

stEdy

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I feel like Tracs tackling and pressure is up but everything including his natural flair/confidence is down

I think that's why you have a few players coming out in the media defending him because he's doing the team stuff but hasn't been able to execute his skills, which I still think will come.

Goody has a track record of backing in players low on confidence who are still putting in defensively (ANB is a prime example of this)
 

Fork n Hell

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I feel like Tracs tackling and pressure is up but everything including his natural flair/confidence is down

I think that's why you have a few players coming out in the media defending him because he's doing the team stuff but hasn't been able to execute his skills, which I still think will come.

Goody has a track record of backing in players low on confidence who are still putting in defensively (ANB is a prime example of this)
yeah Trac looks a confidence player as much as anyone on our list. I would like to see him get ******* angry, scrap and fight like hell, bust up some players and take the game on tonight. but I just don't know if he has it in him.
 

AmericanAFL

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A bit off topic, but how long does a game take to complete? Have only watched a few live and haven’t paid attention to how long they are (they’re only two hours when replayed on watch afl).

I’m trying to figure out if I’ll be able to watch the whole game live or if I’m going to have a scheduling conflict at the end of the game.
 

Fork n Hell

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A bit off topic, but how long does a game take when watching live. Have only watched a few live and haven’t paid attention to how long they are (they’re only two hours when replayed on watch afl).

I’m trying to figure out if I’ll be able to watch the whole game live or if I’m going to have a scheduling conflict at the end of the game.
just under 3 hrs should do it. 6 minute breaks at qtr and 3 qtr time, and about a 20 minute break at half time.
 

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