Changes vs Essendon

[Power Raid]

Correct. That's why we have to work out whether Ryder can be a 7/10 forward instead of 8/10 ruck. If he can't, we have to trade one of Ryder/Lobbe at seasons end. Keeping one for emergency is pointless as they take up way too much salary cap for it to be viable.

Working out what Ryder can do is equal if not more important than seeing what Harvey can do as Ryder is a proven AFL talent.

We seem to have paid a high price for a marginal improvement in our ruck/ forward stocks.

Perhaps a trade or rethink on strategy is warranted but I can't see either happening.

 

[FallingLiefs]

But do we not have a decade or so of exposed form on Ryder?

We know his best footy came at Essendon as lone ruck. We know he's been capable of perfectly good cameos in defence and attack in a given week.

We know nothing of Harvey at AFL level in any capacity.

I've followed him a bit since he got drafted from EFFC and I don't really recall him being consistently placed up forward to learn the role. I genuinely think he can be a permanent forward, it's just going to take a while. I am happy for Harvey to play sometime this year but ts just not the time yet and i wouldn't be playing him and subsequently forcing Ryder to ruck. Coming off a below average performance in the sanfl for Harvey and Butch learning a new craft i don't think either can displace either of our forwards right now.

If we have to drop Lobbe, i'd play Redden. He was both acceptable in the SANFL and able to keep Ryder up forward for periods.
If we do bring in Harvey/Butch at some point i would wait it out a few weeks and if either key forwards Hoff/Schulz go down with slight soreness, bring him in. If none do, bring him in with 3 or so games left in place of one of them... not Lobbe. Also i would be playing Shaw before both of them if he can run out a SANFL game. If we're truly testing for the future i think a Hoff/Harvey/Ryder forwardline makes more sense than Harvey/Schulz/Hoff.

 

[stewie griffen]

Hmm... Lobbe was absolutely pantsed on the weekend.

But can Essendon show him up? Nah

Our biggest flaws on the weekend (apart from getting slaughtered at the stoppages) were slow ball movement and turnovers coming out of defence allowing the Crows to clog up our forward 50.

I'm not sure any changes are really going to do much, yeah we can drop Neade, or Arch or whoever but fringe 22 guys aren't the problem nor the solution.

Unless we are going to go into tank mode and send Sarge out for season ending surgery.... but that aint happening until we cant actually make the finals

 

[Power Girl]

out: soft, lazy footballers
In: players who are prepared to bust their gut for the whole 130 odd minutes

 

[Greasyrhys]

Maybe we should have our best 22 play in the $ANFL & try & get them to win the flag? That would make said organisation very angry lol

 

[philthy05]

I hope these changes threads don't start becoming proponents of putting out an inferior team as "the year is over", subtly suggested tanking.

There is nothing less Port Adelaide than that.

Remember AO in 2011. A win that got us Wingard. The last round draw in 2012 which got us Wines. Go hard to the final siren. Make your own destiny. We do not roll over, have high picks fall in our lap, and expect success.

Under no circumstances should we tank.

But part of good list management and good player developing is blooding young players in the league side , and developing players in the league side.

 

[edgie]

Under no circumstances should we tank.

But part of good list management and good player developing is blooding young players in the league side , and developing players in the league side.

And winning, to build a winning culture.

 

[mic59]

Good to see that the reserves side are putting pressure on in all places. From the AFL website :

Sam Gray was at his very best in the SANFL with 34 disposals, 11 tackles and eight clearances, as was Sam Colquhoun (31, 12 marks, two goals). Andrew Moore thrived as the third man up (25 touches, 19 hit-outs, nine clearances, one goal), while Kane Mitchell (31, seven tackles, one goal) and Jarrad Redden (30 hit-outs, two goals) were both in great form.

Although Gray and Mitchell would be unlikely to come under consideration, we need both Colquhoun and Moore to be in form so we have some backup. Redden looked good before his injuries started and if he can get back to that he will be important also, both for ruck and as a possible replacement for Schulz. I don't see Gray as an AFL player now or in the future but I would give Mitchell at least another year, and maybe some games as sub.

Also from the AFL website:

Matt White is shaping as a likely return to the senior side, which would inject much-needed speed and run into the unit. White has progressed nicely from a hamstring strain to the point where he'll undergo a fitness test this week. Jasper Pittard will also be tested, after injuring his ankle at training last week. Tom Jonas (quad) is another set to be tested, but still hasn't played a game in SANFL – as was requested by coach Ken Hinkley.

Assuming White and Pittard can come back, and Moore is also an in then the players I see as on the rack could be Jake Neade, Cam O'Shea and Brendon Ah Chee. Cam has looked out of sorts in his games back and in the SANFL. I'm not really sure why he's had an AFL game at all. The only reason I can think of is that Ken sees him as a good finals player, which is what he was in 2014. However that ship has sailed. Jake did some good things against the cows and one of his passes did not get the reward it should have when an easy mark inside 50 was dropped. But he sometimes thinks he can do too much, as evidenced when he tried to run around a player who tackled him to the ground. Brendon must have spat at a gypsy at some time in his life. I can't think of an unluckier player. He's always "last in, first out". After subbing he played a pretty good full game against the Swans then was sub against Collingwood and then was subbed off halfway through the Showdown. I would drop Young but I think Ah Chee is the one who will be unlucky.

So:
In: Pittard, White, Moore
Out: Neade, O'Shea, Ah Chee

 

[FishingRick04]

Don't forget the pear on at 7.15 tonight followed by the 1870 hour boys.

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

Hmm... Lobbe was absolutely pantsed on the weekend.

But can Essendon show him up? Nah

Our biggest flaws on the weekend (apart from getting slaughtered at the stoppages) were slow ball movement and turnovers coming out of defence allowing the Crows to clog up our forward 50.

I'm not sure any changes are really going to do much, yeah we can drop Neade, or Arch or whoever but fringe 22 guys aren't the problem nor the solution.

Unless we are going to go into tank mode and send Sarge out for season ending surgery.... but that aint happening until we cant actually make the finals

Essendon might show Lobbe up if they decide to play Jonathon Giles. He was recruited largely at the behest of their diabolically bad coach and have never played him.

 

[Nemisis]

Does White come straight back into the league side?

 

[Robbie4PM]

Slightly controversial as usual

Out
Stewart: Not sure if he tries to go unnoticed so he doesn't get dropped or what. Just zero impact. Out!
Lobbe: Either is not 100% fit or just so far out of form its not funny. We have an opportunity this week to drop him playing the bombers.

In
Shittard: Need his run back in the team unfortunately the free goals from the opposition will come with it. Still better than Stewart.
Harvey: Give the kid a go, we need to try someone.

More so tactical changes and comments:

Neade: Yeah lets drop some excitment up forward and some genuine pressure which we have been lacking all year. A. You either know nothing about football or B. You do not even watch the games. Neade has to be given the rest of the year we are gone from finals, he has to play.

Ah Chee/Young: So we have been destroyed in clearances all year and clearly our midfielders are not getting the job done. So we bring in these midfielders either start them as sub or play them on a flank. Now we want to drop them because they can't play good football when they are completely out of position. Ah Chee has very good hands and is a big body who can win clearances, he can also take a grab. Yes his kicking is not brilliant but theres some bloody good midfielders who can't kick all that well (Swan, Dangerfield, Liberatore etc). Give him and Young a proper go in the f**king centre of the field Ken. Give them a month, see what they can do. I did not play football but I know when you go on the field knowing if you don't perform well you are dropped it can have a massive negative impact on your mindset. These kids come in and out the team so often and they are NEVER backed by the coaching staff and leaders at the club. These kids need to be given a month at least guaranteed in the side to really give AFL football a go, they have earned it and they deserve a proper go.

Jonas: People suggesting him to come back are completely out of their minds. Seriously, what ***king game were you watching for the first half of the year. Wow.

Butcher: Lol

 

[*PAF]

Ah Chee only played a handful of minutes more than Moore.

 

[Coobk001]

Maybe we should have our best 22 play in the $ANFL & try & get them to win the flag? That would make said organisation very angry lol

On this topic. What are the qualification rules for the SANFL finals. We may have a very strong side come SANFL finals time. Imagine slotting P Stewart, AhChee Neade, Young, Krak, Clurey and Impey back into that team from the weekend.

 

[Wargreymon90]

Slightly controversial as usual

In
Shittard: Need his run back in the team unfortunately the free goals from the opposition will come with it. Still better than Stewart.

Shittard? Really? You aren't controversial. You're just a twat

 

[Coobk001]

Slightly controversial as usual

Out
Stewart: Not sure if he tries to go unnoticed so he doesn't get dropped or what. Just zero impact. Out!
Lobbe: Either is not 100% fit or just so far out of form its not funny. We have an opportunity this week to drop him playing the bombers.

In
Shittard: Need his run back in the team unfortunately the free goals from the opposition will come with it. Still better than Stewart.
Harvey: Give the kid a go, we need to try someone.

More so tactical changes and comments:

Neade: Yeah lets drop some excitment up forward and some genuine pressure which we have been lacking all year. A. You either know nothing about football or B. You do not even watch the games. Neade has to be given the rest of the year we are gone from finals, he has to play.

Ah Chee/Young: So we have been destroyed in clearances all year and clearly our midfielders are not getting the job done. So we bring in these midfielders either start them as sub or play them on a flank. Now we want to drop them because they can't play good football when they are completely out of position. Ah Chee has very good hands and is a big body who can win clearances, he can also take a grab. Yes his kicking is not brilliant but theres some bloody good midfielders who can't kick all that well (Swan, Dangerfield, Liberatore etc). Give him and Young a proper go in the f**king centre of the field Ken. Give them a month, see what they can do. I did not play football but I know when you go on the field knowing if you don't perform well you are dropped it can have a massive negative impact on your mindset. These kids come in and out the team so often and they are NEVER backed by the coaching staff and leaders at the club. These kids need to be given a month at least guaranteed in the side to really give AFL football a go, they have earned it and they deserve a proper go.

Jonas: People suggesting him to come back are completely out of their minds. Seriously, what ***king game were you watching for the first half of the year. Wow.

Butcher: Lol

Agree re Neade. Made 3 mistakes in a bad patch in the third, (One may have been forced because of no options ahead), and then people want him dropped. I thought the pressure in our forward half was great and his play in general was electric.

Neade for me must be persisted with.

 

[simmo_bc]

But do we not have a decade or so of exposed form on Ryder?

We know his best footy came at Essendon as lone ruck. We know he's been capable of perfectly good cameos in defence and attack in a given week.

We know nothing of Harvey at AFL level in any capacity.

Agree with that.

With all due respect to Harvey, and I would be pleased to be wrong, but I am dubious as to whether he has the athletic tools to play at AFL level.

No doubt he has improved on last year but I haven't seen anything to get me excited as compared to some of our other troopers playing SANFL.

 

[stewie griffen]

Oh look Giles might actually play this week

 

[simmo_bc]

Does White come straight back into the league side?

wouldn't have thought so? Wines? yes. Gray? yes. Boak? yes. Wingard? yes. It's been 5 or so weeks, surely he has to come back through the SANFL, it wasn't like he was dominating before he did his hammy.

 

[simmo_bc]

I'll be furious if Jonas comes back into the side this week.

I am a massive fan of his but he was dreadfully out of form which was obviously impacted by his groin injury.

what will it say about our predicament if we drop a player based on form and bring him back without even playing a game in the SANFL?

He has a long future at the PAFC, just not at this point of the 2015 season.

 

[Nelso]

You just have to laugh at people wanting Butcher and Jonas back in the team.

When will they ever learn.

Jonas needs to play the rest of the year in the magoos. We need to get games into Clurey.

Butcher is not part of our future plans. Time to assess other options.

 

[simmo_bc]

You just have to laugh at people wanting Butcher and Jonas back in the team.

When will they ever learn.

Jonas needs to play the rest of the year in the magoos. We need to get games into Clurey.

Butcher is not part of our future plans. Time to assess other options.

I agree with Butcher but I wonder whether the club has the balls to say 'we got this one wrong, it didn't work out'?

I probably wouldn't put my house on the fact that he will be delisted, I could see him being one of those guys that hangs around for quite a while and getting delisted after 10 years with 60 games to his name.

 

[Gray matters]

Out
Monfries- Bit of a scapegoat but we need to make some changes and hasn't been setting the world on fire. This is as much to do as giving other players a crack and see whether they are good enough at AFL level.
Stewart- Just doesn't do enough

In
Moore- Has to play and must be given some time in the 1's find out if he is the answer to our big body midfielder if he isn't then we should try and look for someone. I would even give him and young a rotating midfield role and give them some freedom to show what they have
Pittard- straight back in

Lobbe out if whites get some confident.
Shultz lucky (our young key forwards are only a game or 2 away before being given a crack).
Brad ebert sub give those other midfielders more of a role

 

[mic59]

On this topic. What are the qualification rules for the SANFL finals. We may have a very strong side come SANFL finals time. Imagine slotting P Stewart, AhChee Neade, Young, Krak, Clurey and Impey back into that team from the weekend.

Qualification rules are that the player has to meet one of these criteria:
1. Has played more SANFL games than AFL OR
2. Has played the last 3 SANFL games of the season.

Brendon Ah Chee has played 7 AFL games. I doubt if he will qualify as it looks like Ken will persist with him for at least a while.
Paul Stewart has played 6 AFL games. Bit on the cusp but even if he isn't dropped this week he needs to perform or he's out and he should qualify.
Jake Neade has only played 4 AFL games and 8 SANFL. He is more than likely to qualify for the SANFL finals.
Aaron Young has played 7 AFL games and only has to play 3 more games to not be eligible unless he plays the last three SANFL games.
Nathan Krakouer has played 10 AFL games which means more AFL than SANFL. Unless he is dropped for the last 3 games, and on his form that would be a deliberate ploy to get him to play SANFL finals, he will not qualify. I would be very disappointed if Port Adelaide do something like that.
Clurey has played 5 games but should be required for the rest of the year as Bob is going to be a no-show.
Jarman's absence from the Power was due to injury. He has no qualifying games.

To sum up : Paul Stewart and Jake Neade - probably.
Aaron Young - maybe.
Brendon Ah Chee - slight possibility.
Tom Clurey - very unlikely.
Nathan Krakouer and Jarman Impey - no.

None of Sam Gray, Kane Mitchell and Andrew Moore have actually qualified yet although Sam Gray should qualify after playing for the Maggies next week.
Kane Mitchell played 6 AFL games so he still needs to play at least two SANFL games to be locked in.
Andrew Moore has only played 2 AFL games but has not qualified yet as he was suspended for 3 games and missed one due to illness. He should qualify in the next two weeks, though.

 

[Hammer#8]

Interesting theory, Ryder's been the difference between us and Essendon the last few times we've played them.