Strategy Changes vs Fremantle

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Hey guys so obviously Tmac has been extraordinary this year but did have a down day against the Saints last week.

So do you guys reckon it was because possible some on-going fitness concerns from the knock a fortnight ago (did he look fully fit) or was it just a bad day?
 

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Prochard123 said:
Hey guys so obviously Tmac has been extraordinary this year but did have a down day against the Saints last week.

So do you guys reckon it was because possible some on-going fitness concerns from the knock a fortnight ago (did he look fully fit) or was it just a bad day?
Click to expand...
i don't think there is any ongoing issues, hopefully it was just a one off. probably shouldn't have played after that big hit in hindsight because he didn't look his usual self.
 
Frost, Pedo, Tyson, Vince, Lewis, Bugg, Stretch, Wagner, Hannan, ANB, Petty, Smith, Weid...calls of in, out, in, out, in, out...

It seems we lost at selection. But is it actually possible for us to win at selection?

Not sure any of these players are the solution. Most might not be on our list in a few years either.

Jeffy and Spargo seem like the only game altering changes we can make. The backline options sort of resemble shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. It's going down anyway and all the chairs will end up in the drink regardless.

I'm in a very positive mood today, as you can undoubtedly tell.
 
Dancing Potato said:
Frost, Pedo, Tyson, Vince, Lewis, Bugg, Stretch, Wagner, Hannan, ANB, Petty, Smith, Weid...calls of in, out, in, out, in, out...

It seems we lost at selection. But is it actually possible for us to win at selection?

Not sure any of these players are the solution. Most might not be on our list in a few years either.

Jeffy and Spargo seem like the only game altering changes we can make. The backline options sort of resemble shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. It's going down anyway and all the chairs will end up in the drink regardless.

I'm in a very positive mood today, as you can undoubtedly tell.
Click to expand...
I understand your lack of optimism DP, but I think a lot of this can be put down to the fact that Goodwin is too rigid in his game plan and on top of this judges players purely on their output within his current plan.

If you think back to this time last year (round 12-15 in particular) was when we were playing great footy, we were winning against decent opposition and we looked tougher and faster than we do now. And this was while we were injury depleted too, missing Hogan and Gawn. Off the top of my head players that featured throughout that 4 game win streak that aren’t in the team anymore were: Frost, Garlett, Bugg, Pedo, Watts, Hunt and even Stretch came in for a game or two. That’s a big chunk of a football team. Looking at the three of Frost, Garlett and Hunt, there’s a lot of pace there (and most of the genuinely fast players on our list) and I was appalled at how slow our team looked on Sunday. But for whatever reason, these players have fallen foul of Goodwin and he would rather play rookies or debutantes in matches at the moment.

I reckon Goody is too stubborn at the moment and looks too much at what a player can’t do for his rigid, meticulous game plan, rather than what they might be able to if given a chance in a team that has a bit of dash and takes the game on more. I reckon 2017 Melbourne at this time last year would beat us now. Goodwin just needs to throw caution to the wind and try something different. We can’t get much worse than we were on Sunday. But yeah, at this stage Goody is a very uninspiring coach, and he doesn’t take risks. He didn’t have to when we had Lever our there, and we were pumping s**t teams by 100 points but he has to now, or our season is as good as over.
 
It's going to be 28-24 degrees with 50% humidity when we play. Needs to be an emphasis on fit players with clean hands.

Drop Petty and Weid because they don't fit the bill. Hannan had a shocker so bring in Jeffy. Tyson's DE is just too s**t and he can't play on a wing so he needs to go as well.

Out: Weid, Petty, Hannan, Tyson

In: Spargo, Jeffy, ????, ??? <- Frost is fit, but rarely clean, probably the most experienced we have. Stretch also fit, but not clean when its wet from what I have seen. No idea how Baker would go, but think the wings with Spargo and Baker would be too inexperienced and would get sucked in.

Won't do much though. We need our mid-tier players more consistent throughout games (Trac, Salem, ANB, Harmes) and we need our primary ball winners to cut down on turnovers (Gus, Viney and Oliver - 6, 5 & 5 clangers) and work harder defensively when they do turn it over.
 
Seems like everyone over in the Petty thread is arguing over structures, with who goes where all coming down to the fact that we're plugging holes however we cover Lever. Lever's actual replacement has been Lewis, and his inability to cover ground in that quarterback role when everyone presses forward has been a big problem. Smith and Petty in to cover his height have been disastrous, and anyone watching Petty jog about on Sunday might reasonably draw the conclusion that he wasn't really sure what the role was. Our forward line is too tall to keep the ball pressed in at ground level, and our midfielders have stopped running both ways. This puts an undermanned and, lets be brutally honest, distinctly average defence under a heap of pressure.

Why don't we go back to basics? Two key backs, one small back, one distributor, two runners. Goodwin's revolutionary game plan seems to involve dropping anyone that actually offers dash off half back. Debutants aren't the saviour, but Baker deserves a game after 34 in the VFL. Tell him to run fast, track back, and get to the contest like Hunt used to do before we started playing him all over the shop. Frost has his flaws, but play him as a straight key defender with permission to run and you also have a weapon. Salem needs to stand up, and I think playing him in Lewis' role is the best way to do that. He has leg speed, he's quite tough, and he is a reliable kick - does he want to make it? Lets find out. Hibberd has been terribly error-prone this season, and I think its time we let him play a bit more third man up and simplified his role a touch. He's trying to do it all. Jetta was out of touch after being knocked out, but he'll surely bounce back. Oscar is down on form, but a more conventional defensive line-up should help him too. Under no circumstances should TMac move back, given he is playing like a 50-60 goal forward, and he wasn't going particularly well in defence last year if we're brutally honest anyway.

B: Jetta, O.McDonald, Hibberd
HB: Salem, Frost, Baker

Similarly in the forward line. McDonald and Hogan are the two pillars there. One should be staying in the 50, the other pushing deep. I prefer Hogan roaming, but they should swap throughout the game. Melksham and Petracca should do similar, with one always trying to be one-on-one with their man and the other pushing up the field as an extra midfield number. Given Petracca's limited fitness levels, I'd prefer he stayed home. Garlett and Spargo need to come in and to be told that forward pressure, tackles and goals are the only key performance indicators to worry about. Stop sticking them on the wing or in the middle for half a game, it robs them of their consistency. A functioning forward line that applies pressure, and offers plenty of marking targets.

HF: Melksham, Hogan, Petracca
FF: Garlett, T.McDonald, Spargo

Every midfielder needs a kick up the arse and to be reminded that football is a two way game and sport where carelessness is punished. They need to follow Gawn's example, and really work on the fundamentals of getting around the ground and beating their man. There's too many guys rolling through here, in Goodwin's desperation for everyone to either be a midfielder or a key position player. If you're going to play Tyson, play him inside FFS. Stop being a clever clogs and sticking Salem at bounces and Tyson off a wing and expecting them to fluidly move positions, because you're ribbing both of their confidence and not playing to their strengths. We lack outside speed as it is, and hopefully playing some HBF runners might redress the balance. Viney, Oliver and Tyson play inside midfield. Brayshaw, Jones can play either, Fritsch is a pure link-up player between the two arcs.

C: Fritsch, Jones, Brayshaw
R: Gawn, Viney, Oliver

Of the guys that played against the Saints, that leaves Petty, Smith, Weideman, Harmes, Lewis, Neal-Bullen and Hannan out the side. Plus Vince and Smith who went out the week before. Pick a bench where every player is capable of playing their role. Petty and both Smiths are easy omissions, for me. I don't think we need the third KPF, so Weideman can go and work on his craft in the VFL and show form over multiple weeks. Hannan was useless against St Kilda, but played reasonably well against Collingwood and well against the Power. Ultimately, his pressure has been down. Neal-Bullen has been really s**t for a while. His GPS numbers were the main attraction, and it feels harsh to drop a guy who actually runs both ways, but I have no idea what position he plays and that rings alarm bells. There's only room for one old man, so Vince and Lewis can decide which of them actually wants to put in every week and really lead. I'd give Lewis one more chance, and then look to Vince. I'm not Harmes' biggest fan, but he worked so hard last weekend and has been proving his value as someone that can plug a gap when needed without missing a beat. Just keep him out the centre clearances, please. Tyson as discussed earlier keeps his spot for one more week and actually plays inside. I'd pick Stretch for the final bench spot, given he's banging the door down at Casey. He doesn't fill me with confidence though, so any of him, ANB or Hannan are all options for that final spot.

IC: Harmes, Lewis, Tyson, Stretch

------------
TL;DR

Playing guys to their strengths, returning to the fundamentals of run and carry and intense pressure, ditching the crazy high defensive line sans Lever, and playing sensible structures is the way to get the season going again.

B: Jetta, O.McDonald, Hibberd
HB: Salem, Frost, Baker
C: Fritsch, Jones, Brayshaw
HF: Melksham, Hogan, Petracca
FF: Garlett, T.McDonald, Spargo
R: Gawn, Viney, Oliver
IC: Harmes, Lewis, Tyson, Stretch
 
Last edited:
Tulip said:
Seems like everyone over in the Petty thread is arguing over structures, with who goes where all coming down to the fact that we're plugging holes however we cover Lever. Lever's actual replacement has been Lewis, and his inability to cover ground in that quarterback role when everyone presses forward has been a big problem. Smith and Petty in to cover his height have been disastrous, and anyone watching Petty job about on Sunday might draw the conclusion that he wasn't really sure what the role was. Our forward line is too tall to keep the ball pressed in at ground level, and our midfielders have stopped running both ways. This puts an undermanned and, lets be brutally honest, distinctly average defence under a heap of pressure.

Why don't we go back to basics? Two key backs, one small back, one distributor, two runners. Goodwin's revolutionary game plan seems to involve dropping anyone that actually offers dash off half back. Debutants aren't the saviour, but Baker deserves a game after 34 in the VFL. Tell him to run fast, track back, and get to the contest like Hunt used to do before we started playing him all over the shop. Frost has his flaws, but play him as a straight key defender with permission to run and you also have a weapon. Salem needs to stand up, and I think playing him in Lewis' role is the best way to do that. He has leg speed, he's quite tough, and he is a reliable kick - does he want to make it? Lets find out. Hibberd has been terribly error-prone this season, and I think its time we let him play a bit more third man up and simplified his role a touch. He's trying to do it all. Jetta was out of touch after being knocked out, but he'll surely bounce back. Oscar is down on form, but a more conventional defensive line-up should help him too. Under no circumstances should TMac move back, given he is playing like a 50-60 goal forward, and he wasn't going particularly well in defence last year if we're brutally honest anyway.

B: Jetta, O.McDonald, Hibberd
HB: Salem, Frost, Baker

Similarly in the forward line. McDonald and Hogan are the two pillars there. One should be staying in the 50, the other pushing deep. I prefer Hogan roaming, but they should swap throughout the game. Melksham and Petracca should do similar, with one always trying to be one-on-one with their man and the other pushing up the field as an extra midfield number. Given Petracca's limited fitness levels, I'd prefer he stayed home. Garlett and Spargo need to come in and to be told that forward pressure, tackles and goals are the only key performance indicators to worry about. Stop sticking them on the wing or in the middle for half a game, it robs them of their consistency. A functioning forward line that applies pressure, and offers plenty of marking targets.

HF: Melksham, Hogan, Petracca
FF: Garlett, T.McDonald, Spargo

Every midfielder needs a kick up the arse and to be reminded that football is a two way game and sport where carelessness is punished. They need to follow Gawn's example, and really work on the fundamentals of getting around the ground and beating their man. There's too many guys rolling through here, in Goodwin's desperation for everyone to either be a midfielder or a key position player. If you're going to play Tyson, play him inside FFS. Stop being a clever clogs and sticking Salem at bounces and Tyson off a wing and expecting them to fluidly move positions, because you're ribbing both of their confidence and not playing to their strengths. We lack outside speed as it is, and hopefully playing some HBF runners might redress the balance. Viney, Oliver and Tyson play inside midfield. Brayshaw, Jones can play either, Fritsch is a pure link-up player between the two arcs.

C: Fritsch, Jones, Brayshaw
R: Gawn, Viney, Oliver

Of the guys that played against the Saints, that leaves Petty, Smith, Weideman, Harmes, Lewis, Neal-Bullen and Hannan out the side. Plus Vince and Smith who went out the week before. Pick a bench where every player is capable of playing their role. Petty and both Smiths are easy omissions, for me. I don't think we need the third KPF, so Weideman can go and work on his craft in the VFL and show form over multiple weeks. Hannan was useless against St Kilda, but played reasonably well against Collingwood and well against the Power. Ultimately, his pressure has been down. Neal-Bullen has been really s**t for a while. His GPS numbers were the main attraction, and it feels harsh to drop a guy who actually runs both ways, but I have no idea what position he plays and that rings alarm bells. There's only room for one old man, so Vince and Lewis can decide which of them actually wants to put in every week and really lead. I'd give Lewis one more chance, and then look to Vince. I'm not Harmes' biggest fan, but he worked so hard last weekend and has been proving his value as someone that can plug a gap when needed without missing a beat. Just keep him out the centre clearances, please. Tyson as discussed earlier keeps his spot for one more week and actually plays inside. I'd pick Stretch for the final bench spot, given he's banging the door down at Casey. He doesn't fill me with confidence though, so any of him, ANB or Hannan are all options for that final spot.

IC: Harmes, Lewis, Tyson, Stretch

------------
TL;DR

Playing guys to their strengths, returning to the fundamentals of run and carry and intense pressure, ditching the crazy high defensive line sans Lever, and playing sensible structures is the way to get the season going again.

B: Jetta, O.McDonald, Hibberd
HB: Salem, Frost, Baker
C: Fritsch, Jones, Brayshaw
HF: Melksham, Hogan, Petracca
FF: Garlett, T.McDonald, Spargo
R: Gawn, Viney, Oliver
IC: Harmes, Lewis, Tyson, Stretch
Click to expand...

that certainly looks to me like a better balanced team than what Goody's been rolling out the last couple of weeks.
its really not that hard though, I cant work out how he ended up with where we are at.
i agree that we need get back to basics. just pick our best spine and midfield, then complement it with what you need around it, a mix of 1 on 1 winners and blokes with pace and skill on the outside, from players who can actually play those roles. not that convoluted mess that we've been playing the last couple of weeks.
 
Tulip said:
B: Jetta, O.McDonald, Hibberd
HB: Salem, Frost, Baker
C: Fritsch, Jones, Brayshaw
HF: Melksham, Hogan, Petracca
FF: Garlett, T.McDonald, Spargo
R: Gawn, Viney, Oliver
IC: Harmes, Lewis, Tyson, Stretch
Click to expand...
The only additional change I'd make is Vince for Tyson. Both snails but Vince's kicking is still light years ahead of Tyson's most weeks and for mine he was a standout for Casey last week. Straight back in.

The balance of this side is so much better. It is however five changes (six with Vince) which will never happen, despite how much it needs to.
 
Tulip said:
Seems like everyone over in the Petty thread is arguing over structures, with who goes where all coming down to the fact that we're plugging holes however we cover Lever. Lever's actual replacement has been Lewis, and his inability to cover ground in that quarterback role when everyone presses forward has been a big problem. Smith and Petty in to cover his height have been disastrous, and anyone watching Petty jog about on Sunday might reasonably draw the conclusion that he wasn't really sure what the role was. Our forward line is too tall to keep the ball pressed in at ground level, and our midfielders have stopped running both ways. This puts an undermanned and, lets be brutally honest, distinctly average defence under a heap of pressure.

Why don't we go back to basics? Two key backs, one small back, one distributor, two runners. Goodwin's revolutionary game plan seems to involve dropping anyone that actually offers dash off half back. Debutants aren't the saviour, but Baker deserves a game after 34 in the VFL. Tell him to run fast, track back, and get to the contest like Hunt used to do before we started playing him all over the shop. Frost has his flaws, but play him as a straight key defender with permission to run and you also have a weapon. Salem needs to stand up, and I think playing him in Lewis' role is the best way to do that. He has leg speed, he's quite tough, and he is a reliable kick - does he want to make it? Lets find out. Hibberd has been terribly error-prone this season, and I think its time we let him play a bit more third man up and simplified his role a touch. He's trying to do it all. Jetta was out of touch after being knocked out, but he'll surely bounce back. Oscar is down on form, but a more conventional defensive line-up should help him too. Under no circumstances should TMac move back, given he is playing like a 50-60 goal forward, and he wasn't going particularly well in defence last year if we're brutally honest anyway.

B: Jetta, O.McDonald, Hibberd
HB: Salem, Frost, Baker

Similarly in the forward line. McDonald and Hogan are the two pillars there. One should be staying in the 50, the other pushing deep. I prefer Hogan roaming, but they should swap throughout the game. Melksham and Petracca should do similar, with one always trying to be one-on-one with their man and the other pushing up the field as an extra midfield number. Given Petracca's limited fitness levels, I'd prefer he stayed home. Garlett and Spargo need to come in and to be told that forward pressure, tackles and goals are the only key performance indicators to worry about. Stop sticking them on the wing or in the middle for half a game, it robs them of their consistency. A functioning forward line that applies pressure, and offers plenty of marking targets.

HF: Melksham, Hogan, Petracca
FF: Garlett, T.McDonald, Spargo

Every midfielder needs a kick up the arse and to be reminded that football is a two way game and sport where carelessness is punished. They need to follow Gawn's example, and really work on the fundamentals of getting around the ground and beating their man. There's too many guys rolling through here, in Goodwin's desperation for everyone to either be a midfielder or a key position player. If you're going to play Tyson, play him inside FFS. Stop being a clever clogs and sticking Salem at bounces and Tyson off a wing and expecting them to fluidly move positions, because you're ribbing both of their confidence and not playing to their strengths. We lack outside speed as it is, and hopefully playing some HBF runners might redress the balance. Viney, Oliver and Tyson play inside midfield. Brayshaw, Jones can play either, Fritsch is a pure link-up player between the two arcs.

C: Fritsch, Jones, Brayshaw
R: Gawn, Viney, Oliver

Of the guys that played against the Saints, that leaves Petty, Smith, Weideman, Harmes, Lewis, Neal-Bullen and Hannan out the side. Plus Vince and Smith who went out the week before. Pick a bench where every player is capable of playing their role. Petty and both Smiths are easy omissions, for me. I don't think we need the third KPF, so Weideman can go and work on his craft in the VFL and show form over multiple weeks. Hannan was useless against St Kilda, but played reasonably well against Collingwood and well against the Power. Ultimately, his pressure has been down. Neal-Bullen has been really s**t for a while. His GPS numbers were the main attraction, and it feels harsh to drop a guy who actually runs both ways, but I have no idea what position he plays and that rings alarm bells. There's only room for one old man, so Vince and Lewis can decide which of them actually wants to put in every week and really lead. I'd give Lewis one more chance, and then look to Vince. I'm not Harmes' biggest fan, but he worked so hard last weekend and has been proving his value as someone that can plug a gap when needed without missing a beat. Just keep him out the centre clearances, please. Tyson as discussed earlier keeps his spot for one more week and actually plays inside. I'd pick Stretch for the final bench spot, given he's banging the door down at Casey. He doesn't fill me with confidence though, so any of him, ANB or Hannan are all options for that final spot.

IC: Harmes, Lewis, Tyson, Stretch

------------
TL;DR

Playing guys to their strengths, returning to the fundamentals of run and carry and intense pressure, ditching the crazy high defensive line sans Lever, and playing sensible structures is the way to get the season going again.

B: Jetta, O.McDonald, Hibberd
HB: Salem, Frost, Baker
C: Fritsch, Jones, Brayshaw
HF: Melksham, Hogan, Petracca
FF: Garlett, T.McDonald, Spargo
R: Gawn, Viney, Oliver
IC: Harmes, Lewis, Tyson, Stretch
Click to expand...
All spot on I reckon except for Stretch, who still has s**t running down his legs from his last AFL game. And I still think Vince should take his spot. Yes he is slow but uses the ball well and can play back, forward or mid, and also a tagging role if necessary.
 

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Tulip said:
B: Jetta, O.McDonald, Hibberd
HB: Salem, Frost, Baker
C: Fritsch, Jones, Brayshaw
HF: Melksham, Hogan, Petracca
FF: Garlett, T.McDonald, Spargo
R: Gawn, Viney, Oliver
IC: Harmes, Lewis, Tyson, Stretch
Click to expand...

That's a good line up.

Although, if Tyson isn't playing an inside role, I'd prefer ANB for the run and pressure he brings, even if he had an ordinary game last week.

Baker was impressive last week. His kicking to advantage was a feature that really stood out. I hope he can do it in the one's too.
 
From our "Friends" at DL:

Close to the end a group did some boundary runs under supervision of the fitness staff. The group included Charlie Spargo, Oskar Baker, Dean Keilty, Harley Balic, Lachlan Filopovic, Mitch King and Cam Pederson. Could be the group playing in Casey or maybe those who didn't play AFL given a bit more work load. Though Sam Frost, Dion Johnstone, Dean Kent, Jeff Garlett, Bernie Vince, Tim Smith, Jay Kennedy-Harris, Tom Bugg and Josh Wagner not part of this group
Click to expand...
 
Ins: Frost, Stretch, Spargo
Outs: Petty, Tyson, Hannan

Tempted to also drop Weid for Garlett and just go with a completely different look forward line, playing Hogan, T-Mac, Spargo and Garlett down there with Trac, Fritsch, Melksham and ANB rotating through.
 
I just returned from a trip from the gold coast and crossed a few dee players checking in. Sam frost is what caught my eye surely he's in. Bernie Vince was also there I would also think he's in. Viney, joel Smith and salem were the others.
 
In: Frost, Garlett, Stretch, Spargo
Out: Hannan, Harry Petty, Dom Tyson, Weideman

Good changes! I'd have had ANB in for Tyson, but can't argue otherwise. 9/10.

Using some players' first names and other players' last names. 1/10.
 
In: Frost, Spargo, Garlett, Stretch
Out: Petty, Hannan, Weideman, Tyson

Two like for like swaps and two admissions the team was unbalanced last week.
 
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