Unofficial Preview Changes vs Freo: Cloke, Brown and Aish in, team in OP

[surfer1]

Sad when you have higher expectations of certain posters....

Injuries aren't THE reason, they're A reason. As is relative youth. As is relative (in)experience. As is relative team stability and capacity to maximise the output of the relatively inexperienced kid added to the team. As is relative leadership. As is the "who" is injured and their relative value to the team....

For the record, despite the relatively similar injury profiles, Collingwood last game were average age of 24 years 0 months, Freo last game were 25-7, Pies average games 62.3, Freo 105.4. Even then our age profile is skewed because we've got a 25yo international rookie playing his 8th game.

Well said, some very respected posters seem to frazzled at the moment

 

[Scodog10]

Happily agree to disagree. Rocca was a very good ruckman, just didn't have a tank for the role. Likely he offered more at CHF anyway.

And I may be wrong but I'm not aware of any club that has a full-time ruck coaching specialist. Happy for you to show me the error of my ways.

And please enlighten me how much specific ruck coaching other clubs do.

What garbage. I assure you Anthony Rocca is many things, but a ruck coach he isn't! I would encourage the club to keep him on moving forward, but it's imperative we find someone skilled in the art of ruck coaching to fill the role of ruck coach in 2017.

FWIW Greg Stafford at the Dees, Matthew Clarke at Adelaide, Alex Ishencko at North and Stephen Taubert at Sydney off the top of my head are full time specialist ruck coaches. Your statement would have been almost 100% more accurate if you said we're the only club without a specialist ruck coach. In truth I'm staggered to actually read comments that a full time specialist isn't an absolute priority...

Oh and the injury excuse has well exceeded it's used by date and is now just embarrassing, IMO!

 

[surfer1]

This week's Bucks Brief was all about injuries.

Eddie at the womens launch responded to questions about our form by blaming injuries.

Then Gary Pert goes on the Pies website and talks for 8 minutes about injuries.

It's a common theme alright, but it's only been the last week or two that it's been used by the club.

So what? I am sorry but injuries have in the past and continue to be a factor

 

[jackcass]

What garbage. I assure you Anthony Rocca is many things, but a ruck coach he isn't! I would encourage the club to keep him on moving forward, but it's imperative we find someone skilled in the art of ruck coaching to fill the role of ruck coach in 2017.

FWIW Greg Stafford at the Dees, Matthew Clarke at Adelaide, Alex Ishencko at North and Stephen Taubert at Sydney off the top of my head are full time specialist ruck coaches. Your statement would have been almost 100% more accurate if you said we're the only club without a specialist ruck coach. In truth I'm staggered to actually read comments that a full time specialist isn't an absolute priority...

Oh and the injury excuse has well exceeded it's used by date and is now just embarrassing, IMO!

Seriously, just point me to where I've said that Rocca IS a good ruck coach. All I've said is that nobody, including your observations, has made a case that Rocca and Rendell aren't good ruck coaches. Simply stating it doesn't make it so or provide a persuasive argument.

Ditto, the full time ruck coaches at other clubs. I invited clarification. How can you be staggered that people don't think it's a priority when they seem to be ignorant of the facts you have at your disposal when forming your opinion. Feel free to enlighten us.

And injuries have a use by date... seriously, I hadn't noticed that Swanny, Shaz, Ramsay, Moore, Faz, Elliott, Adams, et al were back playing or available for selection. That'll improve the run-out side Friday night or at a minimum the VFL side Sunday. How bloody ridiculous to suggest injuries has a use by date. They remain a factor till that scenario changes, just because people have tired of the reality doesn't change it.

 

[surfer1]

What garbage. I assure you Anthony Rocca is many things, but a ruck coach he isn't! I would encourage the club to keep him on moving forward, but it's imperative we find someone skilled in the art of ruck coaching to fill the role of ruck coach in 2017.

FWIW Greg Stafford at the Dees, Matthew Clarke at Adelaide, Alex Ishencko at North and Stephen Taubert at Sydney off the top of my head are full time specialist ruck coaches. Your statement would have been almost 100% more accurate if you said we're the only club without a specialist ruck coach. In truth I'm staggered to actually read comments that a full time specialist isn't an absolute priority...

Oh and the injury excuse has well exceeded it's used by date and is now just embarrassing, IMO!

Sure just ask Swan Adams Faz Moore etc how they feel to be seen as past by used date

 

[Scodog10]

Seriously, just point me to where I've said that Rocca IS a good ruck coach. All I've said is that nobody, including your observations, has made a case that Rocca and Rendell aren't good ruck coaches. Simply stating it doesn't make it so or provide a persuasive argument.

Ditto, the full time ruck coaches at other clubs. I invited clarification. How can you be staggered that people don't think it's a priority when they seem to be ignorant of the facts you have at your disposal when forming your opinion. Feel free to enlighten us.

And injuries have a use by date... seriously, I hadn't noticed that Swanny, Shaz, Ramsay, Moore, Faz, Elliott, Adams, et al were back playing or available for selection. That'll improve the run-out side Friday night or at a minimum the VFL side Sunday. How bloody ridiculous to suggest injuries has a use by date. They remain a factor till that scenario changes, just because people have tired of the reality doesn't change it.

That's the point though. The lack of development is pretty self ****ing explanatory again it's just staggering that it's even up for discussion.

Given your a little slow on the uptake though.

http://m.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2016-05-23/grundys-slow-burn-to-49-games

"I've been in the system four years now and I thought my actual ruck craft might have been better than where it is right now," Grundy.

A player stating his ruck craft isn't where he thought it would be by now is an absolutely resounding endorsement of Rocca as ruck coach...

I'll enlighten you with one word "google" beyond that I don't know where else to direct you to gather such rudimentary information.

It's really very simple. Injuries = excuse. If not I'm sure you'll be able to name me more than one game that we've lost because of injuries?

 

[Scodog10]

Sure just ask Swan Adams Faz Moore etc how they feel to be seen as past by used date

Haha that's some vintage TD posting write there!

 

[jackcass]

That's the point though. The lack of development is pretty self ******* explanatory again it's just staggering that it's even up for discussion.

Given your a little slow on the uptake though.

http://m.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2016-05-23/grundys-slow-burn-to-49-games

"I've been in the system four years now and I thought my actual ruck craft might have been better than where it is right now," Grundy.

A player stating his ruck craft isn't where he thought it would be by now is an absolutely resounding endorsement of Rocca as ruck coach...

I'll enlighten you with one word "google" beyond that I don't know where else to direct you to gather such rudimentary information.

It's really very simple. Injuries = excuse. If not I'm sure you'll be able to name me more than one game that we've lost because of injuries?

Or the lack of development is about the players rate of development. Nothing more, nothing less. Ruckmen develop at different rates. Grundy's comments are neither insightful or a reflection of the coaching, just an observation that you choose to use as a support for your argument. I thought I'd be a multi-millionaire and shacked up with Miranda Kerr by now... doesn't mean shoit really and as I say, doesn't make your case any more persuasive.

"My ruck craft will come as a I develop a bit more of a mature body. It's that competitiveness and follow up work that is the cornerstone of my game."

And I'd suggest just about every game we've lost the result has been impacted by injuries with the possible exception of the Swans game and even then, losing Swanny minutes into the game was A factor. That's is all I've ever said, injuries are A factor, don't see how anyone can dismiss them out of hand as not being A factor.

 

[Scodog10]

Or the lack of development is about the players rate of development. Nothing more, nothing less. Ruckmen develop at different rates. Grundy's comments are neither insightful or a reflection of the coaching, just an observation that you choose to use as a support for your argument. I thought I'd be a multi-millionaire and shacked up with Miranda Kerr by now... doesn't mean shoit really and as I say, doesn't make your case any more persuasive.

"My ruck craft will come as a I develop a bit more of a mature body. It's that competitiveness and follow up work that is the cornerstone of my game."

And I'd suggest just about every game we've lost the result has been impacted by injuries with the possible exception of the Swans game and even then, losing Swanny minutes into the game was A factor. That's is all I've ever said, injuries are A factor, don't see how anyone can dismiss them out of hand as not being A factor.

Even when presented with the information you asked for you still don't get it. Like our season the best I can offer is, whatever...

I'm keen to see how you spin the "effort" v St Kilda, West Coast, Carlton, Port and Melbourne on injuries. Those factors must have been pretty large to swing those results in a meaningful way lol.

Edit: I might as well provide my actual thoughts on injuries. Forget them "high performance" is getting a shake up post 2016. They're irrelevant to what the 22 that take to the field offer up. The lack of consistent effort and structure in 2016 has been pathetic. That's where our focus needs to be because we can control them and to this point they've been largely pathetic.

 

[jackcass]

Even when presented with the information you asked for you still don't get it. Like our season the best I can offer is, whatever...

I'm keen to see how you spin the "effort" v St Kilda, West Coast, Carlton and Port on injuries. Those factors must have been pretty large to swing those results in a meaningful way lol.

Yep, agree, if the sum total of your case against Rocca and Rendell is an at best ambiguous article that quotes Grundy making comments that can be construed to support either case then I'll happily remain in the "why the f$#@ do we need to recruit a specialist ruck coach when we already have Rocca and Rendell" camp. I was rather hopeful you might have some inside info or at least be able to help with the wealth and Miranda Kerr thing.

And you answer your own question. Yes injuries were a factor, as you've noted effort was a factor, form of certain players was a factor. Luck was a factor. There are many factors that culminate in a performance, I'm just not willing to dismiss 1 of them because I'm bored with that reality.

 

[Scodog10]

Yep, agree, if the sum total of your case against Rocca and Rendell is an at best ambiguous article that quotes Grundy making comments that can be construed to support either case then I'll happily remain in the "why the f$#@ do we need to recruit a specialist ruck coach when we already have Rocca and Rendell" camp. I was rather hopeful you might have some inside info or at least be able to help with the wealth and Miranda Kerr thing.

Serious question. Given how I'm posting does it not suggest I'm supremely confident in my opinion? I repeat Rocca could be any number of things to our club, but a ruck coach is not amongst them...

 

[jackcass]

Serious question. Why do you think I'd feel obligated to pass on inside info on this one? I repeat Rocca could be any number of things to our club, but a ruck coach is not amongst them...

I didn't say you had any obligation. Just thought you'd like to substantiate what you're saying rather than leaving it as an opinion.

 

[Scodog10]

I didn't say you had any obligation. Just thought you'd like to substantiate what you're saying rather than leaving it as an opinion.

Sleep on it then re-read our discussion. You still may not get it (most probably won't and will sook up), but it might help.

 

[JackoSpades]

Had to double take make sure I was in the right thread .
Aish, Cloke and Brown in.
No idea for who's out, depends on niggles and matchups. Surely we wont see a lack of effort.

 

[jackcass]

Sleep on it then re-read our discussion. You still may not get it (most probably won't and will sook up), but it might help.

Of course, I'm a sook because I disagree with or I'm not convinced by an opinion... how silly of me! Was that any opinion, or just yours?

 

[doodles98]

Seriously, just point me to where I've said that Rocca IS a good ruck coach. All I've said is that nobody, including your observations, has made a case that Rocca and Rendell aren't good ruck coaches. Simply stating it doesn't make it so or provide a persuasive argument.

Ditto, the full time ruck coaches at other clubs. I invited clarification. How can you be staggered that people don't think it's a priority when they seem to be ignorant of the facts you have at your disposal when forming your opinion. Feel free to enlighten us.

And injuries have a use by date... seriously, I hadn't noticed that Swanny, Shaz, Ramsay, Moore, Faz, Elliott, Adams, et al were back playing or available for selection. That'll improve the run-out side Friday night or at a minimum the VFL side Sunday. How bloody ridiculous to suggest injuries has a use by date. They remain a factor till that scenario changes, just because people have tired of the reality doesn't change it.

Injuries are a factor for every team, every week, every year. They are inevitable, largely uncontrollable and they are a scenario that does not change much in reality across the whole competition. They are why we have lists of 45 players. In a wider AFL context, there is absolutely nothing exceptional about our injury list at the moment. (at times it has been though I grant you).. but not at the moment. That is the reality and that's what you refuse to acknowledge. It is normal for a club to have a number of players they consider important or best 22 injured at any one time.. this is a fact of AFL life for all clubs. At the moment we have 4 clear best 22 players injured and a fringe one in Moore. You'll find a lot of other clubs in similar boats. Also, we have Cloke, Nathan Brown, Toovey, Goldsack all playing VFL. It's not a valid excuse at the moment... stop using it.

 

[Rusty22]

cmon pies, give something for eddie to smile.

 

[jackcass]

Injuries are a factor for every team, every week, every year. They are inevitable, largely uncontrollable and they are a scenario that does not change much in reality across the whole competition. They are why we have lists of 45 players. In a wider AFL context, there is absolutely nothing exceptional about our injury list at the moment. (at times it has been though I grant you).. but not at the moment. That is the reality and that's what you refuse to acknowledge. It is normal for a club to have a number of players they consider important or best 22 injured at any one time.. this is a fact of AFL life for all clubs. At the moment we have 4 clear best 22 players injured and a fringe one in Moore. You'll find a lot of other clubs in similar boats. Also, we have Cloke, Nathan Brown, Toovey, Goldsack all playing VFL. It's not a valid excuse at the moment... stop using it.

Thanks for setting me on the right path. Here I was thinking having Adams, Fasolo, Moore, Elliott, Swan, Langdon, Ramsay, Scharenberg and Broomhead unavailable was still going to be an issue given we also had Brown, Goldsack, Wills and Gault only recently returned after injury. I'll do better to attune myself to this brave new reality. I'll also get on board and start advocating that we start playing these name players who for the most part are either returning from injury or whom have been demoted for form reasons, or both, just on name rather than playing people on form, because that'll fix everything.

 

[gtrain23]

If we loose this one
Oh boy wowe

 

[Hardas]

Anybody attended training this week?

 

[mike123]

I hope Jimmy Aish gets picked.

 

[jmac70]

I hope Jimmy Aish gets picked.

Both Aish and Cloke must be selected after their effort in the VFL win.

 

[TradeDraft]

Both Aish and Cloke must be selected after their effort in the VFL win.

Cloke might stay in VFL IF Moore get's Up.

Moore did Full Training This Week

 

[jmac70]

Cloke might stay in VFL IF Moore get's Up.

Moore did Full Training This Week

If Moore is fit to play I would rather drop Cox and Witts for Moore and Cloke.

 

[TradeDraft]

If Moore is fit to play I would rather drop Cox and Witts for Moore and Cloke.

If we play Both I would Drop Witts and White for Moore and Cloke