Preview Changes vs GWS Giants - Round 10, 2021

[Bleedblueandgold]

Don't think Simmo will drop Waterman for Ryan. He seems to like him too much and sees him as B22. Ah Chee more likely to be dropped, with the next option being Allen back to ruck with Williams dropped, since he's repeatedly gone back to that option.

 

[squashface]

Wouldn't mind Ah Chee out for Ryan and then into the sub role. He's probably the most perfect candidate for a regular sub on our list as he's very versatile and doesn't really need the development that the WAFL offers.

 

[FKASC]

Williams has to play every game he can from now on. His development has stalled too many times now.

If Naitanui gets injured before Williams has had a chance to hit his straps, you may as well just fold the club.

Non negotiable that he plays IMO, I don’t care how shit the opposition ruck is (Mumford is still a gun)

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Williams has to play every game he can from now on. His development has stalled too many times now.

If Naitanui gets injured before Williams has had a chance to hit his straps, you may as well just fold the club.

Non negotiable that he plays IMO, I don’t care how sh*t the opposition ruck is (Mumford is still a gun)

So who out of Kennedy, darling or Allen would you drop to keep Williams in?

 

[Forward Press]

I don't think we're dropping Williams regardless of who the opposition ruck is, he's definitely come on and playing games will help his development far more than stints in the WAFL. Naitanui is possibly only a couple of seasons away from the cliff.

Most logical change is Waterman out (because he's the tall we can do without if required when all are fit) to keep Williams in.

If Ryan is fit, straight swap for Ah Chee.

 

[Ok Boomer]

Toby Greene out is huge, he is seriously good.

 

[Westend]

IN: Ryan, Hurn

Out : Waterman Cole

 

[Rowan18]

I don't think we're dropping Williams regardless of who the opposition ruck is, he's definitely come on and playing games will help his development far more than stints in the WAFL. Naitanui is possibly only a couple of seasons away from the cliff.

Most logical change is Waterman out (because he's the tall we can do without if required when all are fit) to keep Williams in.

If Ryan is fit, straight swap for Ah Chee.

I agree with Williams playing, we desperately need some ruck depth.

Realistically, Nic Nat is one major injury away from retirement. Let's stay optimistic and hope that doesn't happen, in which case, how many years does he really have in him? I suspect that he will be one to go if we have a down season either this year or next (like the clean-out we had in 2017). For all the strengths he gives us, his limited time on ground is seriously screwing with our entire team selection and also impacting development of our young talls.

I'd prefer to find another mature ruck from state league or another team (like we did with Sinclair/Vardy/Hickey) at the end of the season and start phasing Nic out next year (give him mandated rests etc to see him through the year).

 

[SloppyJoe]

If Hurn comes back then the options are to swap him for a defender or a mid/fwd type in Ah Chee or Waterman (presumably with Nelson having stints higher up the ground, maybe in a run with role).

But if we swap a defender to keep it at the usual 7, which is more likely I think, then the options are Rotham/Witho/Cole/Nelson. Although Witho has been getting a lot of it and using it pretty well, his defensive efforts have been lacking. Hurn is like for like but better defensively. With him back Witho will no doubt see less of the footy.

That said, we have had trouble moving it out of defence. I'd like to see how we go with 2 options in both Hurn and Witho. We may suffer a bit if Witho gets caught out one on one, but it's little different to how Jetta used to be and we managed to work around it.

So that means one of Nelson/Cole/Rotham misses, and I honestly couldn't pick one as I think they've all played well this season. Whoever misses will be stiff.

The other decision is who goes out for Ryan. Our small forwards in Jones (7 tackles + 1 goal) and Petruccelle (8 contested possessions + 1 goal) are probably not in the conversation. Brander similarly is safe. The club has indicated a preference to play 2 rucks when possible, so I doubt Williams goes.

That leaves Ah Chee and Waterman. I don't think height is an issue - there is only 1 inch difference between them. Waterman seems to have the bigger tank but Ah Chee can run through the mids if required. That said, so can Ryan. If we're judging them on their last game, then Ah Chee goes out.

 

[Westend]

If Hurn comes back then the options are to swap him for a defender or a mid/fwd type in Ah Chee or Waterman (presumably with Nelson having stints higher up the ground, maybe in a run with role).

But if we swap a defender to keep it at the usual 7, which is more likely I think, then the options are Rotham/Witho/Cole/Nelson. Although Witho has been getting a lot of it and using it pretty well, his defensive efforts have been lacking. Hurn is like for like but better defensively. With him back Witho will no doubt see less of the footy.

That said, we have had trouble moving it out of defence. I'd like to see how we go with 2 options in both Hurn and Witho. We may suffer a bit if Witho gets caught out one on one, but it's little different to how Jetta used to be and we managed to work around it.

So that means one of Nelson/Cole/Rotham misses, and I honestly couldn't pick one as I think they've all played well this season. Whoever misses will be stiff.

The other decision is who goes out for Ryan. Our small forwards in Jones (7 tackles + 1 goal) and Petruccelle (8 contested possessions + 1 goal) are probably not in the conversation. Brander similarly is safe. The club has indicated a preference to play 2 rucks when possible, so I doubt Williams goes.

That leaves Ah Chee and Waterman. I don't think height is an issue - there is only 1 inch difference between them. Waterman seems to have the bigger tank but Ah Chee can run through the mids if required. That said, so can Ryan. If we're judging them on their last game, then Ah Chee goes out.

Good Post Joe

I also would like to see Hurn and Witherden in the same side ....it will give us the option to never have the Gov kick out from a goal after a behind. Which he did on the weekend....Hurn witho.. to do the kick ins....Gov to set up for the mark or the defensive zone

Yes Nelson/Cole/Rotham one must go out......I was leaning towards Cole with Nelson close....I just think Rotham has more skill with the ball in the hand so he stays in ...Nelson has a bit more run than Cole and a bigger body so Cole goes out for me. We are missing a bit of run from halfback with duggan missing...Nelson has a bit more run than cole for me

Ryan for Waterman I believe is a no brainer.....we have heaps of talls...and I believe Waterman game is not suited for Giants Stadium....plus ryan is a better defensive player for me over waterman

Looking forward to the game with Green out reckon we have a huge chance of knocking them off

 

[DanWCE]

Good sign that we're at the point of dropping players after good games to fit better players back in. Getting some healthy competition for spots, and injury list improving.

 

[Doashuey]

So who out of Kennedy, darling or Allen would you drop to keep Williams in?

None of them. The MC has been playing 2 rucks plus JK JD and OA for pretty much every game the past 2 years when all are available. I dont think they intend to change that because you dont like it.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Good Post Joe

I also would like to see Hurn and Witherden in the same side ....it will give us the option to never have the Gov kick out from a goal after a behind. Which he did on the weekend....Hurn witho.. to do the kick ins....Gov to set up for the mark or the defensive zone

Yes Nelson/Cole/Rotham one must go out......I was leaning towards Cole with Nelson close....I just think Rotham has more skill with the ball in the hand so he stays in ...Nelson has a bit more run than Cole and a bigger body so Cole goes out for me. We are missing a bit of run from halfback with duggan missing...Nelson has a bit more run than cole for me

Ryan for Waterman I believe is a no brainer.....we have heaps of talls...and I believe Waterman game is not suited for Giants Stadium....plus ryan is a better defensive player for me over waterman

Looking forward to the game with Green out reckon we have a huge chance of knocking them off

At the game one of witho or Nelson was running up to take the kick out and GOV waved them away so he could kick it .

I swear it was that gov is lazy and didn't want to run back into position. All he did was kick it long to the same spot he always kicks it to

 

[FKASC]

So who out of Kennedy, darling or Allen would you drop to keep Williams in?

None. We’ve played games with Vardy and those three in the past and been fine.

I would drop Waterman. Allen is just as mobile and can play the same role if the forward line is too congested

 

[FKASC]

I swear it was that gov is lazy and didn't want to run back into position. All he did was kick it long to the same spot he always kicks it to

If true he should be ****ed off out of the leadership group ASAP

 

[Doashuey]

At the game I swear one of witho or Nelson was running up to take the kick out and GOV waved them away so he could kick it .

I swear it was that gov is lazy and didn't want to run back into position. All he did was kick it long to the same spot he always kicks it to

Nah he just wants to stay deep in defence to pick up the slack left by NicFat.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

In: Hurn, Ryan
Out: Nelson, Ah Chee

Nelson had a quieter game, but that's not why I'm saying drop him. He's played really well since last year, but his role can be covered by Cole who was very lively all game.
Ah Chee was another one with a decent game, but as is the case with Nelson, nothing he brings to the side is irreplaceable. Ryan is simply a better version.

I like JJ in the side, even if he didn't have a massive game. He has serious talent.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

We definitely looked too tall when NN and Williams were both on, largely because our forward line is stacked with talls as it is so there was nowhere to hide two rucks on the field.

Simpson needs to get the rotations correct and that will solve our "too tall" problems. I.e. rotate a tall for a tall off the bench, so if Williams and NN are both on the field, JK, JD or OA are having a breather. If all of NN, JK, JD and OA are on the ground, we either have 2 rucks filling space in the middle (as that's where NN plays, he doesn't drift into either forward or defensive arcs other than specifically for ruck contests) or 4 talls in the forward line.

I know managing rotations is something they already do, but at times they did get the timing of those rotations wrong and we had too many talls on the field. Which against good sides could be a 5 minute spell where they kill us with run before the rotations are fixed.

I don't think dropping Waterman is the answer, he is far too good to not be playing seniors. I also don't think he's a genuine tall, he plays more as a half forward and at 191cm is no taller than half the midfielders going around.

 

[GlennTwenty]

None of them. The MC has been playing 2 rucks plus JK JD and OA for pretty much every game the past 2 years when all are available. I dont think they intend to change that because you dont like it.

I know you say "when all are available" however it has actually only happened 3 times this year and 1 time last year which is a long way short of pretty much every game.

Simmo also said in one of his recent press conferences that the 2nd ruck is a trade off vs extra run and they probably won't do it every week.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

None of them. The MC has been playing 2 rucks plus JK JD and OA for pretty much every game the past 2 years when all are available. I dont think they intend to change that because you dont like it.

Well that statement is false . They used allen as the 2nd ruck for most of last season .

Its not about me not liking it . It is that the midfield is our weakest position and robbing the midfield to pump games into Williams seems counter-intuitive.

 

[Doashuey]

I know you say "when all are available" however it has actually only happened 3 times this year and 1 time last year which is a long way short of pretty much every game.

Simmo also said in one of his recent press conferences that the 2nd ruck is a trade off vs extra run and they probably won't do it every week.

No thats incorrect. JD JK and OA have played in all but 1 game this year where JK missed if I recall correctly? Also not sure how many any of those guys missed last year but Id imagine not many.
In all games bar 2 I this year we have run with 2 rucks (NN 9 games, Vardy 5 games, BW 2 games).


I recall Simmo saying that we would also go with one ruck in 2018 at some stage after NN went down in Rd17. We played Vardy and Lycett in every game thereafter so I wouldnt put too much stock into what simmo says about

 

[Doashuey]

Well that statement is false . They used allen as the 2nd ruck for most of last season .

Its not about me not liking it . It is that the midfield is our weakest position and robbing the midfield to pump games into Williams seems counter-intuitive.

Yes actually I stand corrected on 2020, I overlooked last year with the amount OA played. 2nd ruck. Given how much we played Vardy this year versus his output, it seems the MC is intent on keeping OA out of the ruck as much as possible- which I think is a good thing.
I know our midfield needs support at the moment but if we are relying on Waterman for midfield support outside of a running defensive wing position then we are in deep shit. Ahchee ran through the middle at CBD last week more than Waterman. Bringing Ryan in gives us a dynamic option for a change up at CBD that Waterman doesn't provide. I think it must be one of Ahchee or Waterman to make way for Ryan and I would take a punt on it being Ahchee.
As others have mentioned, we do need to look at developing Williams as Nic could go at any time and he is pretty much our only fall back and if that means playing a bit taller then so be it..

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

We were much more willing to use Allen as NicNat’s backup last year when the quarters were shorter. We’ve only done it twice this year, and with Allen becoming even more important plus carrying a few injuries I don’t think we’ll be doing it too often in the future.

 

[eagles06]

Looks like there are a lot of opinions about how me move forward with the tall forwards and the ruck position.
Anyone think Brander could be an option to pinch hit when Nic takes a break? Especially with the mids eventually coming back and possibly squeezing him out, I think it’s an option and a better one than Allen.
Thoughts?

 

[THE A5]

Looks like there are a lot of opinions about how me move forward with the tall forwards and the ruck position.
Anyone think Brander could be an option to pinch hit when Nic takes a break? Especially with the mids eventually coming back and possibly squeezing him out, I think it’s an option and a better one than Allen.
Thoughts?

He’s too slight unless it’s againts another make shift for ruckmen