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Clearly picked Turner to make the decision easy next week to drop someone when Wellsy returns V WB.

Drop the 1st gamer & keep Adams & Co.....Makes sense now !!!

Actually really interesting Grima named as emergency..... Thompson a withdrawl a huge chance IMO then.
 
Stevie Wonder can see that Patch and Az Black are playing with no confidence, a smart coach would let them have a run around in the magoos to get some touch back. All we have to do is find a smart coach.
 
Wild Bill said:
My word there are posters wanting us to miss the 8 in the hope of getting rid of Scott.
I don't think Adams should be playing this week - or had the run he has had. But I still think the coaches have a better idea of who should be playing that anyone on big footy. We have no no idea what happens at the club during the week. Swallow, Harvey and co would all be discussing players with the coaches. It is not just Scott walking into match selection and making a decision that goes against everyone else at the club.
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I think you are missing the point. Some of us are frustrated at the coach because:

1. After a loss he talks tough and forecasts changes and he has never backed up his words with the action. It's always the usual getting dropped.

2. Players like Adams, Bastinac, Black and Swallow have been poor both statistically and to the eye yet not one has been dropped. The Captain's return has been managed poorly. He was nowhere near match ready and should have played at least another full game for NB.

3. He lacks imagination. When we are behind during a game his moves are all about countering and never about attacking.

His game plan works well when the opposition are just slightly off their game and his stubbornness to alter it makes us a very predictable team to counter. I heard a couple of supporters at the game last week yelling out chippity chip chip when Geelong were kicking it short across half back before slicing us up with a kick across wing to a free man running into 50. They were yelling it out because that's how you beat North. Chip it around until 1 or 2 players are loose. I watched forward of the play a fair bit last week and the number of times players were off their man when defending was disappointing. The crossovers when defending was abysmal and the main culprits were Adams, Bastinac, Swallow (sigh), Gibson, Black and Daw yet only Daw gets dropped. The defending of all of the above is sub standard and what makes it worse is the offensive part of their games isn't much better.

His lack of courage to make an example of players that don't uphold a minimum standard is the cornerstone of our inconsistency in my opinion because it fosters complacency, it happens in all work environments.

He refuses to make offensive moves during a game that may deviate from his structures. A change is as good as a holiday Brad, sometimes players need a situational change to snap them out of whatever they're in. Not all players can do it themselves and because of this, those very players I mentioned earlier are the ones letting us down defensively so maybe a stint in the twos is the jolt need, maybe or maybe not.

It's funny that Wood can't get a game because he has to work on his defensive game yet players I've mentioned get away with it in the firsts. Why can't Wood learn on the job too, at least he brings in something different offensively?

/end rant.
 

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looking at next weeks changes, you would think they will bring in Wells and Grima so selection will be very interesting to see who gets dropped.
 
Wellsfan said:
Clearly picked Turner to make the decision easy next week to drop someone when Wellsy returns V WB.

Drop the 1st gamer & keep Adams & Co.....Makes sense now !!!

Actually really interesting Grima named as emergency..... Thompson a withdrawl a huge chance IMO then.
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Great opportunity to play Wood instead and move Petrie to CHB for the week. We can see what a Brown, Wood and Black forward line looks like and Drew gets a freshen up by playing loose.across half back and racking up cheap stats for a change.

blackshadow said:
Disgusting post.

No matter how out of form our players are they are never filth.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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I agree, please delete it @BTron, Twinkletoes or Flawed Genius.
 
Bigeasy said:
Great opportunity to play Wood instead and move Petrie to CHB for the week. We can see what a Brown, Wood and Black forward line looks like and Drew gets a freshen up by playing loose.across half back and racking up cheap stats for a change.



I agree, please delete it @BTron, Twinkletoes or Flawed Genius.
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I like Mr_Nyah he just got a bit carried away. It has been frustrating watching the underachievement because of the lack of discipline and hardness through the squad.
 
I don't get the "why did we pick Turner and not Dumont and Wood?".

Dumont may need to replace a Cunners/Spitta/Greenhead-type role... hard to crack a game. Wood would likely be a straight replacement for Black... obviously the selection committee feel Black should be persisted with. We have been screaming out for a quick small forward with strong defensive efforts, particularly since Nahas was injured - hence, Turner.

They are all very different players who contribute to very different roles in the team.
 
utility said:
I don't get the "why did we pick Turner and not Dumont and Wood?".

Dumont may need to replace a Cunners/Spitta/Greenhead-type role... hard to crack a game. Wood would likely be a straight replacement for Black... obviously the selection committee feel Black should be persisted with. We have been screaming out for a quick small forward with strong defensive efforts, particularly since Nahas was injured - hence, Turner.

They are all very different players who contribute to very different roles in the team.
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Wood could replace Adams quite easily.
 
utility said:
I don't get the "why did we pick Turner and not Dumont and Wood?".

Dumont may need to replace a Cunners/Spitta/Greenhead-type role... hard to crack a game. Wood would likely be a straight replacement for Black... obviously the selection committee feel Black should be persisted with. We have been screaming out for a quick small forward with strong defensive efforts, particularly since Nahas was injured - hence, Turner.

They are all very different players who contribute to very different roles in the team.
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Dumont played predominately forward last week according to Gavin Brown. He should have replaced Adams. Like for like in Scott parley.
 
Bigeasy said:
I think you are missing the point. Some of us are frustrated at the coach because:

1. After a loss he talks tough and forecasts changes and he has never backed up his words with the action. It's always the usual getting dropped.

2. Players like Adams, Bastinac, Black and Swallow have been poor both statistically and to the eye yet not one has been dropped. The Captain's return has been managed poorly. He was nowhere near match ready and should have played at least another full game for NB.

3. He lacks imagination. When we are behind during a game his moves are all about countering and never about attacking.

His game plan works well when the opposition are just slightly off their game and his stubbornness to alter it makes us a very predictable team to counter. I heard a couple of supporters at the game last week yelling out chippity chip chip when Geelong were kicking it short across half back before slicing us up with a kick across wing to a free man running into 50. They were yelling it out because that's how you beat North. Chip it around until 1 or 2 players are loose. I watched forward of the play a fair bit last week and the number of times players were off their man when defending was disappointing. The crossovers when defending was abysmal and the main culprits were Adams, Bastinac, Swallow (sigh), Gibson, Black and Daw yet only Daw gets dropped. The defending of all of the above is sub standard and what makes it worse is the offensive part of their games isn't much better.

His lack of courage to make an example of players that don't uphold a minimum standard is the cornerstone of our inconsistency in my opinion because it fosters complacency, it happens in all work environments.

He refuses to make offensive moves during a game that may deviate from his structures. A change is as good as a holiday Brad, sometimes players need a situational change to snap them out of whatever they're in. Not all players can do it themselves and because of this, those very players I mentioned earlier are the ones letting us down defensively so maybe a stint in the twos is the jolt need, maybe or maybe not.

It's funny that Wood can't get a game because he has to work on his defensive game yet players I've mentioned get away with it in the firsts. Why can't Wood learn on the job too, at least he brings in something different offensively?

/end rant.
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I don't criticise the coaches or players much - it doesn't help anyone and wouldn't make me feel better either - but most of this is very fair comment.

The only thing I still have a different view on is the value in dropping players to make a stand. There are very few learning or working environments where public criticism does more good than support and private instruction, and I don't see why a football team is any different. There are two questions to be answered when they think about dropping a player who isn't performing as well as they can/should - 1. Will someone else contribute more to the team this week, and 2. Will this player improve more by playing VFL than they would by playing seniors. And on both questions, I just assume that the coaches know more than the zero I know about the players to make those calls. I really don't think satisfying frustrated supporters or commentators should be any part of the decision.
 

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Hearts to hearts said:
There are very few learning or working environments where public criticism does more good than support and private instruction, and I don't see why a football team is any different. There are two questions to be answered when they think about dropping a player who isn't performing as well as they can/should - 1. Will someone else contribute more to the team this week, and 2. Will this player improve more by playing VFL than they would by playing seniors. And on both questions, I just assume that the coaches know more than the zero I know about the players to make those calls. I really don't think satisfying frustrated supporters or commentators should be any part of the decision.
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I agree with this but see omission from the team slightly differently.

It teaches consequence for actions. Hell, we can omit players and be completely encouraging in our feedback and public stance. It has value is in showing a player that there are standards and expectations for being a senior player. Sometimes it's not even a punishment but an action that was required when the player has underperformed for too long.

We cut Matt Campbell for not adhering to standards off-field but seem afraid to enforce similar hardcoded standards on-field by creating a cause and effect between performance and team selection.
 
Hearts to hearts said:
I don't criticise the coaches or players much - it doesn't help anyone and wouldn't make me feel better either - but most of this is very fair comment.

The only thing I still have a different view on is the value in dropping players to make a stand. There are very few learning or working environments where public criticism does more good than support and private instruction, and I don't see why a football team is any different. There are two questions to be answered when they think about dropping a player who isn't performing as well as they can/should - 1. Will someone else contribute more to the team this week, and 2. Will this player improve more by playing VFL than they would by playing seniors. And on both questions, I just assume that the coaches know more than the zero I know about the players to make those calls. I really don't think satisfying frustrated supporters or commentators should be any part of the decision.
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Again you're missing the point. We do NOT want public.criticism, we want players dropped for non performance. Massive difference.

Regarding your point about whether the players to come in would do.any better. Instead of having it as a question, how about the club playing them and drawing a conclusion?
 
King Corey said:
I agree with this but see omission from the team slightly differently.

It teaches consequence for actions. Hell, we can omit players and be completely encouraging in our feedback and public stance. It has value is in showing a player that there are standards and expectations for being a senior player. Sometimes it's not even a punishment but an action that was required when the player has underperformed for too long.

We cut Matt Campbell for not adhering to standards off-field but seem afraid to enforce similar hardcoded standards on-field by creating a cause and effect between performance and team selection.
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We treat demotion to the VFL as an absolute last resort.
 
King Corey said:
I agree with this but see omission from the team slightly differently.

It teaches consequence for actions. Hell, we can omit players and be completely encouraging in our feedback and public stance. It has value is in showing a player that there are standards and expectations for being a senior player. Sometimes it's not even a punishment but an action that was required when the player has underperformed for too long.

We cut Matt Campbell for not adhering to standards off-field but seem afraid to enforce similar hardcoded standards on-field by creating a cause and effect between performance and team selection.
Click to expand...

I do see that, and as a supporter I'd love it to happen more often. I just have no idea what conversations happen inside the club about performance expectations, measurement and consequences, so I don't feel in a position to judge either way. I can say it's too easy for the favourites, so no wonder players want to stay, but then Mason Wood also wants to stay, Levi stayed, no-one on the list seems as aggrieved as we are - so maybe it's clearer to them than it is to us why some players are picked and others aren't.
 
Hearts to hearts said:
I do see that, and as a supporter I'd love it to happen more often. I just have no idea what conversations happen inside the club about performance expectations, measurement and consequences, so I don't feel in a position to judge either way. I can say it's too easy for the favourites, so no wonder players want to stay, but then Mason Wood also wants to stay, Levi stayed, no-one on the list seems as aggrieved as we are - so maybe it's clearer to them than it is to us why some players are picked and others aren't.
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I think we overcomplicate these things sometimes. Most other clubs do treat promotion/demotion as a behavioural reinforcement tool.

To some extent we do in terms of promotion but just don't seem to use it going the other way.

While I respect what you're saying re what happens inside the club, honestly when I've been privy to anything of this nature the reality hasn't been that far from perception. As for Mason and Levi, the fact is they may not have had better offers - or good enough offers to leave a nice environment - when in a position to leave.

Was thinking about this re Mason recently and let's say he was a completely self-absorbed WIFM type (I'm not suggesting he is) his agent would surely still advise that he hasn't got much to gain leaving the club at this point.

Can say with certainty that players in the past have often been left in the dark as to who and why team selections are made and in that way it's no different to the equivalent situation in any other workplace.
 

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King Corey said:
Leigh Matthews has said in the past about how it's a myth that a player under pressure for his spot performs better.

Whether that's correct or not maybe Brad absorbed that information but has taken it too far.
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To me, it's about enforcing standards that are to be adhered to on-field. Promotion/demotion is a tool that can be used to do this.

Why it isn't, only those in the club know. But it's frustrating as **** to see players like Adams, Bastinac and Black put in poor performances end on end and nothing is done about it.
 
DJ Dupree said:
More examples needed to be made, not to suddenly make the side invincible overnight, but to send the message that not performing your role is not acceptable.

The passengers might win a match here and there for us, but it that fails to recognise the wider framework of close enough being good enough, 'there will be enough others to fill the void if I don't perform'.

We've carried Adams, Black, Bastinac, Petrie for too long. No, I don't think Dumont will smash Adams out of the park. No, I don't think Wood will double the goal tally of Black. But it might just make these supremely talented players wake up and get the most out of themselves.

Some of these players are crying out for a rocket so bad that if they aren't given one soon, they'll just plateau and remain average or poor for good. If that hasn't happened already.
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Good post. Simply put, if you perform your role, You stay in the 22. If you don't and someone performs in the 2s in your role consistently, your out. Fairly simple and what everyone on here expects. How many times has it occurred this year?
 
TennisPlayerAndy said:
To me, it's about enforcing standards that are to be adhered to on-field. Promotion/demotion is a tool that can be used to do this.

Why it isn't, only those in the club know. But it's frustrating as **** to see players like Adams, Bastinac and Black put in poor performances end on end and nothing is done about it.
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Completely agree mate. Just wondering if he got this philosophy from Leigh.
 

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