Opinion Changes vs Hawks OUT: Ryan Cox IN: Deluca McCarthy

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With reference to Cox and Ryan:
Even in the SAS, they'll have a few drinks on weekends.
Tough gig, the AFL.
 

ydraw

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I love all the supporters that think they know more than the coaching staff. Clarkson is operating with two 193cm (Roughead, O'Brien) forwards and a host of smaller forwards and doing fine. Richmond have only really being playing Riewoldt as a tall forward for most of the season.

Hawthorn played Roughhead, Gunston, O'Brien and Schoenmakers on the weekend.

It's actually the exact opposite of what you're saying. Clarkson is perfectly willing to play a less than stellar player in Schoenmakers to give their forward line much-needed height. And he kicked 2 goals last week.


Richmond are playing Reiwoldt and Nankervis in their forward line.

I love all the supporters that think our coaching staff know best when they're doing something wildly different to all the other AFL coaches, and getting really poor results while doing it.

And Ross has backed Taberner more than anyone.

No. No he hasn't. No player has been dropped more often than Taberner has in the last 4-5 seasons.
 

_F7_

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The thing is it's almost already too late.

If we draft a gun key forward this draft then he might be coming into his prime in a couple of years when we're ready for a tilt.

Otherwise we're basically screwed. We've had 15 years to find a key forward and still haven't.
If it's too late then we may as well forfeit (or just get everyone to drink on a six day break).

Three things could happen moving forward (hopefully all 3):

1) one of our current talls works out (tabs apeness, strnadica etc)
2) we trade in a star / free agent in 2 years time (think hogan or lobb)
3) a new recruit develops quickly (like Darcy).

If it all blows up in our face, we'll be playing a small forward line, which is essentially what we're practicing now.

I understand a lot of us are bitter about past fails, but this is the first/second year into building a new side. You just have to suck it up and see how it plays out.
 

ydraw

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I understand a lot of us are bitter about past fails, but this is the first/second year into building a new side. You just have to suck it up and see how it plays out.

It's not our 2nd/3rd year of developing the talls currently on our list though. It's the 5th year. And we still aren't doing it. So how's it going to magically work out? It's not.

Collins and Taberner should be playing every game. They are the only talls on our list with no serious injury cloud. Not playing them is stupid and 100% hurting our future prospects.
 

Kenny_01

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Hawthorn played Roughhead, Gunston, O'Brien and Schoenmakers on the weekend.

It's actually the exact opposite of what you're saying. Clarkson is perfectly willing to play a less than stellar player in Schoenmakers to give their forward line much-needed height. And he kicked 2 goals last week.

You clearly haven't watched much of the Hawks. Schoenmakers is a bit part player and has only played a few games this season. He's also only 193cm, a Kersten if you will. Gunston is playing in defence.

And what about Richmond?
 

ydraw

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You clearly haven't watched much of the Hawks. Schoenmakers is a bit part player and has only played a few games this season. He's also only 193cm, a Kersten if you will.

Schoenmakers is 195cm.

Even with Gunston in Defense they are still playing 3 KPFs in Roughhead, Schoenmakers and O'Brien.
 

ydraw

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Here's a question for you ydraw (the man obsessed with height): what key forwards over 193cm have the Hawks been playing this season?

Schoenmakers. They are also lucky enough to have Roughhead who is a premier key forward despite his height. If we had one of those I'd say go for it, but neither McCarthy or Kersten are that.

They are also playing 2 third talls in O'Brien and Sicily alongside them both. So if you're trying to make a point that Hawthorn are playing a small forward line and doing fine, then you couldn't be barking up a more wrong tree.
 

Kenny_01

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Schoenmakers. They are also lucky enough to have Roughhead who is a premier key forward despite his height. If we had one of those I'd say go for it, but neither McCarthy or Kersten are that.

They are also playing 2 third talls in O'Brien and Sicily alongside them both. So if you're trying to make a point that Hawthorn are playing a small forward line and doing fine, then you couldn't be barking up a more wrong tree.

Schoenmakers has played 5 games this season. He's similar to Tabs in that he comes in and out of the side. He only played 6 games last year. He's a bit part player. Roughead runs up the ground a fair bit; he plays small stints on the wing and even in the midfield at times.

What I am saying is Hawks a team reliant on ball movement; not having big gorillas in the forward line.
 

ydraw

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Schoenmakers has played 5 games this season. He's similar to Tabs in that he comes in and out of the side. He only played 6 games last year. He's a bit part player. Roughead runs up the ground a fair bit; he plays small stints on the wing and even in the midfield at times.

Yeah, they brought Schoenmakers in when they sent Gunston to defense because they still wanted to play 3 key forwards.

Cast closed.
 

meima

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Yeah, they brought Schoenmakers in when they sent Gunston to defense because they still wanted to play 3 key forwards.

Cast closed.
Wrong Sicily always play defense after rd 7 from memory . Gunston playing more to the wing. All this team line up position change during match day .

* My memory might fail me occasionally.
 

ydraw

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Wrong Sicily always play defense after rd 7 from memory . Gunston playing more to the wing. All this team line up position change during match day .

So they still have Roughhead, Schoenmakers and O'Brien.

So again, not wrong.

Not sure why you guys can't just admit defeat.
 

Kenny_01

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So they still have Roughhead, Schoenmakers and O'Brien.

So again, not wrong.

Not sure why you guys can't just admit defeat.

No doubt Hawks hold their forward structure better than us but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think they play an abundance of talls for the sake of it. They have always been reliant on ball movement. Clarkson actually likes to rotate players all over the ground.
 

ydraw

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No doubt Hawks hold their forward structure better than us but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think they play an abundance of talls for the sake of it. They have always been reliant on ball movement. Clarkson actually likes to rotate players all over the ground.

Explain the selection of Schoenmakers then.
 
Man those Hawks... Fwoooar they're in some hot form too. :thumbsu:

13th on the ladder.

Strawman fail.

And if they beat us will be above us on the ladder.

Least they have some semblance of a forward line structure.....that's more than what we have.
 

meima

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Man those Hawks... Fwoooar they're in some hot form too. :thumbsu:

13th on the ladder.

Strawman fail.
Consider they only start their rebuild this year two point ( half a win) behind freo is not a bad result.
 

Kenny_01

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So basically exactly what I've been saying all along......

He's hardly a gorilla though and similar size to Cox. Offers more on the ground than Tabs aswell. You have been stating for weeks that we need a big 198cm-200cm forward in our forward line and I said they are on reliant on ball movement. Yes they have a forward structure which they hold well but it isn't with any giants that you have been seeking. The game is moving past players who offer nothing at ground level. Look at Cox from Collingwood. Richmond have changed their forward structure this season and only have been playing 1 KPF for the most of it.
 

ydraw

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He's hardly a gorilla though and similar size to Cox. Offers more on the ground than Tabs aswell. You have been stating for weeks that we need a big 198cm-200cm forward in our forward line and I said they are on reliant on ball movement. Yes they have a forward structure which they hold well but it isn't with any giants that you have been seeking. The game is moving past players who offer nothing at ground level.


Key forwards don't offer nothing at ground level though.
 

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Possibly, maybe even Nyhuis plays the whole game down back. I still really want Croz in the backline though.

Spurr - Hamling - Hughes
Weller - Johnson - Blakely
+Logue

Nyhuis/Croz to fit in their aswell.

Really wish Spurr didn't come straight back.

Agree on both counts. The only issue I see with playing with some variation of Weller, Hughes, Crozier, Blakely and Nyhuis is that there isn't really a pure shut down defender for the opposition's small forwards. At the moment Spurr plays that role (to varying degrees of efficacy admittedly) and Nyhuis seems the most likely to take his place, but from what I've heard he's a bit more of a rebounding defender? Could be wrong, just thinking of team balance.
 
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DMan 11

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Key forwards don't need to do sh$t at ground level if they can mark the ball.
Did anyone ever drop Plugga Lockett for not being good below his knees ??
Give me a marking target over a 'nimble' forward when referring to the key forward target any day of the week.
 

DMan 11

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Agree on both counts. The only issue I see with playing with some variation of Weller, Hughes, Crozier, Blakely and Nyhuis is that there isn't really a pure shut down defender for the opposition's small forwards. At the moment Spurr plays that role (to varying degree of efficacy admittedly) and Nyhuis seems the most likely to take his place, but from what I've heard he's a bit more of a rebounding defender? Could be wrong, just thinking of team balance.

What's the likelihood of Logue forward this week ?
Nyhuis to revert to his natural habitat in defence as the lock down defender.
Blakey/Weller to rotate through
 

meima

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Key forwards don't need to do sh$t at ground level if they can mark the ball.
Did anyone ever drop Plugga Lockett for not being good below his knees ??
Give me a marking target over a 'nimble' forward when referring to the key forward target any day of the week.
The problem is pick 64 forward is not tom Hawkins .
 
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