Unofficial Preview Changes vs Hawthorn - Sunday May 22

[Nathan Barley]

No it wasn't. Payne was in far, far superior form compared to Fullerton. Even playing half a game, he does't do much, wasn't hard to see why the coaches chose Payne, they even said why. The other reason we bring Payne in is because he is a big body who isn't afraid of contests, you can't say Fullerton is going to hit the packs hard.

what are you basing this on?

Payne has not been strong in the contests. Consistently gets shoved out of the way

 

[Nathan Barley]

Crows made a deliberate decision to go small because Payne can’t mark. Allowed Doedee and Dawson to dominate the first half. Exposed a glaring weakness because we played a key back in our forward line

Similar last week with Hurn, Barass and Gov

 

[Dalions]

what are you basing this on?

Payne has not been strong in the contests. Consistently gets shoved out of the way

I agree, he seems less committed to the contest than he does as a backman.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I agree, he seems less committed to the contest than he does as a backman.

I guess as a backman you’re usually crashing into an opponent and as a forward you have to be the one absorbing the contact. As seen when he got tunnelled early in the eagles game he’s not preparing himself to be crashed into

 

[Dalions]

I guess as a backman you’re usually crashing into an opponent and as a forward you have to be the one absorbing the contact. As seen when he got tunnelled early in the eagles game he’s not preparing himself to be crashed into

The best forwards are the ones to initiate the contact which can actually create the separation.

 

[dlanod]

I guess as a backman you’re usually crashing into an opponent and as a forward you have to be the one absorbing the contact. As seen when he got tunnelled early in the eagles game he’s not preparing himself to be crashed into

I noticed this on the telecast last night too. He's got the right idea, he's trying to get to the right spot, but any push to the side by his defender throws him massively off line and out of the contest. It's not that he's lost the intent but more that he's not learned the tricks yet.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I noticed this on the telecast last night too. He's got the right idea, he's trying to get to the right spot, but any push to the side by his defender throws him massively off line and out of the contest. It's not that he's lost the intent but more that he's not learned the tricks yet.

And it’s not like hes a big body like Daniel Merrett when he switched forward and can absorb those little nudges under the footy

 

[martinson]

To be fair, neither's Fullarton.

For our structure we want to spill the ball at a minimum. If they take a contested mark, that's even better, but the aim is consistently to not allow an intercept mark. Fullarton doesn't have the same impact on a contest that Payne does, as shown by both several times this year alone.

I'm not convinced at all that Payne impacts a contest sufficiently to make any difference unless he's one out where given his big body is an asset.

I'm not overly keen on Fullarton either but I thought he was taking a few marks that he's never taken before earlier this VFL season. Plus he's mobile enough to get to contests . Maybe I'm deluded but I haven't given up on Fullarton if he had a set position. Not that either of them get a look in with Daniher and McStay fit.

 

[dlanod]

And it’s not like hes a big body like Daniel Merrett when he switched forward and can absorb those little nudges under the footy

They're pretty similar in their vital statistics. The main difference is that Merrett started forward than moved back. Jack's learning it on the fly at the AFL level by the looks of it.

 

[martinson]

The best forwards are the ones to initiate the contact which can actually create the separation.

The subtle nudge under the ball has meant goal after goal for the likes of Hawkins.

Doesn't even have to be subtle a lot of the time.

 

[M Malice]

Not many teams have more than 3 good/elite AFL level key forwards on their list, so depth is always a problem if 2 or more are injured at the same time.... if they are any good they are poached by other sides with the attraction of more senior opportunity, just have to hope at least 2 of Hippy, Joe and McStay are fit and firing come finals.

 

[davemc_lions]

Said in the other thread I still see Fullarton as a tall flanker, good hands and better when the ball hits the ground for a big guy
Contested marking/pack marking is not something I think of with Fullarton.

 

[a mayes ing]

what are you basing this on?

Payne has not been strong in the contests. Consistently gets shoved out of the way

The VFL last match where Payne and Fullerton were both playing. Look at the stats. Yeah they are playing different areas of the ground, even so, Payne was better (coaches agree)

 

[Nathan Barley]

The VFL last match where Payne and Fullerton were both playing. Look at the stats. Yeah they are playing different areas of the ground, even so, Payne was better (coaches agree)

Ah ok.

 

[Tom14]

The VFL last match where Payne and Fullerton were both playing. Look at the stats. Yeah they are playing different areas of the ground, even so, Payne was better (coaches agree)

The last VFL match they both played Fullarton didn't play after half-team as he was an emergency for the senior team. That game is not a relevant comparison.

Payne was ok v West Coast and pretty anonymous yesterday, but I think part of that was that we let adelaide have the outnumber in the first half. I'm not a big fan of him but given there was no VFL scratch match it is hard to see a change being made this week.

 

[martinson]

The last VFL match they both played Fullarton didn't play after half-team as he was an emergency for the senior team. That game is not a relevant comparison.

Payne was ok v West Coast and pretty anonymous yesterday, but I think part of that was that we let adelaide have the outnumber in the first half. I'm not a big fan of him but given there was no VFL scratch match it is hard to see a change being made this week.

I'd like another look at Tom in the role . I don't buy it totally that he can't take a contested mark or provide a contest in a KPF role.

Payne just lacks skill overall imo . I don't want to criticise either too much though. Payne tried very hard yesterday and is still learning with a long way to go. He's a magnificent physical specimen. Fullarton to me has a lot of qualities that generally make a good player in the modern game . He either lacks confidence or is never going to get there . Not ruling the line through him yet as most seem to .

 

[3KZ is Football]

In: Lester
Out: Answerth

We need a defensive General in the Birchall mould.

 

[dlanod]

In: Lester
Out: Answerth

We need a defensive General in the Birchall mould.

Was Birchall ever even really that role. Hodge absolutely, Birchall never struck me as substantially vocal - it looked like it fell more to Andrews anyway.

 

[Tom14]

Froggy's a bit more reliable disposal wise than Noah but not as athletic, and he's really been a tall defender for the last 3 years. I think given we've treated Noah as best 22 so far he probably stays in unless a younger small/medium defender knocks the door down in the VFL.

 

[morsie]

I am sure its already been said but the conversation about Payne seems very similar to the conversation about McStay of 3 or 4 years ago.Not impacting the contest, not enough possessions not kicking goals etc.
I have no idea whether Payne will succeed but its still a bit early to mark him as a failure.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I am sure its already been said but the conversation about Payne seems very similar to the conversation about McStay of 3 or 4 years ago.Not impacting the contest, not enough possessions not kicking goals etc.
I have no idea whether Payne will succeed but its still a bit early to mark him as a failure.

McStay showed glimpses though. Could take a big mark just not as consistent as he is now

 

[3KZ is Football]

Was Birchall ever even really that role. Hodge absolutely, Birchall never struck me as substantially vocal - it looked like it fell more to Andrews anyway.

Birchall wasn’t directing traffic the way Hodge did and Lester does, but he was tasked with the release kick outside defensive 50, a role Rich has largely adopted, with support from Coleman. In an amalgam of codes and terms that causes members of the Over 50’s Clique varying degrees of stress and confusion, Birchall was something of a “quarterback” I am led to believe.

I think we need Lester to perform the same role, especially in pressure games and situations. Answerth is brave, but he turns it over far too frequently.

 

[mill204]

Was Birchall ever even really that role. Hodge absolutely, Birchall never struck me as substantially vocal - it looked like it fell more to Andrews anyway.

Correct. Entirely different player to Hodgey.

 

[martinson]

We've got Andrews , Adams , Rich , Gardiner and occasionally Zorko down back.

If that's not enough experience to direct traffic then we're in trouble.

 

[mattsmob]

Birchall wasn’t directing traffic the way Hodge did and Lester does, but he was tasked with the release kick outside defensive 50, a role Rich has largely adopted, with support from Coleman. In an amalgam of codes and terms that causes members of the Over 50’s Clique varying degrees of stress and confusion, Birchall was something of a “quarterback” I am led to believe.

I think we need Lester to perform the same role, especially in pressure games and situations. Answerth is brave, but he turns it over far too frequently.

Does Lester actually direct traffic? Maybe in the VFL games he does but I find it hard to believe someone that’s on the fringe as much as Lester is telling people where to go and what to do. I think that spot goes to the best lockdown defender and to me that’s Answerth, he is also much quicker and more athletic which plays in his favour.