changes vs richmond

[Childish Gambino]

Too many idiots in this thread wanting to drop Monfries and Houli. Monfries had his best game of the year against Hawthorn two weeks ago, yes he played poorly against St Kilda, but they are a very good defensive team, something which Richmond isn't. Even though Monfries played terrible for most of the game he still created two shots on goal in the final quarter and never put his head down.

On Houli, i think he kept Milne to 13 possies and 1 goal. His disposal was questionable in the first quarter but I think that was due to the St Kilda pressure and the pressure on him to keep his spot in the team. Once he got into the game a bit he did the role he was needed to do.

I think the Richmond game is the perfect game for a guy like Myers to gain a bit of confidence, meaning we should rest Zaka, resting a first year player does more good then harm for the team. He is a LONG TERM investment. We don't want him burning out at this stage of his career.

Myers can take his role in the midfield and hopefully gain some of the mouth watering form we saw early on in his career.

Would love to see Hurley back in the team put like previous posters the only way I see him coming in is through the expense of a ruckman either through injury (Ryder) or form (Bellchambers).

Jetta also must come in. We need his pressure and crumbing ability in the forward line.

 

[half time raffle]

Hurley should be coming into the side, but as a third marking forward option. He is a big strong kid with a beautiful boot so why couldn't he play forward, not for ever, but for this match.

 

[Houli to Neagle]

if davey gets suspended for that, then its a joke

Didn't Sean B from Port get off with the same thing. IIRC he went to shirt front someone and turned his back at the last minute and got off???

 

[hateitorlovett13]

Because Hurley's earnt his spot, and Hooker, Pears and McPhee have been better than NLM.

For the record, I loved that bump on Riewoldt, because it didn't cost us anything.

Hahah yeah same. Watching NLM (and you need to actually go to the game to see it), he just adds physicality that we don't otherwise have. I'll be really surprised and dissapointed to see him dropped, and I think Knights has better judgement than that.

Does anybody think Houli has a chance of being dropped? He was dragged a couple of times yesterday, not sure Knights was too happy with his decision making.

If Hurley is ready, I'd like to see him up forward. Pears and Hooker are doing brilliantly in defence, and I think we really needed another forward target with Lloyd out of the game early on and Neagle often mistiming his leads.

That being said, I'm not too sure who I'd drop. I was happy with pretty much everyone yesterday, maybe we'll go in without changes again.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You dont drop players just in case they might get an injury.

Poor Cyril Rioli wouldn't have played in the GF last year with your mindset.

Zaka stays. He's a good yong player.

Rioli played as a small forward last year, a bit easier to cope with the week by week grind of AFL footy. Zaka plays more in the midfield/forward role. Resting him is not that bad an idea. In fact the way he played against the Saints he probably needs a rest anyway

 

[Donakebab]

Constant poor form? Did you miss the hawthorn match? Monfries was close to best on ground - 8 marks in the 1st quarter taking hodge to the cleaners.

Not at all, but does one good game make a heap of other games which have been average at best disappear? Did you miss that Hodge was carrying an injury and is now out for at least 2 more weeks?

Forget the quiet word, he deserved a grilling and has done for years. He is easily the most disappointing player in our list. He may have shown promise, but after 5 seasons and close to 100 games under your belt, you have to deliver more, especially as a first round pick. Yes, like last week, once in a blue moon that promise is delivered and he hits targets, kicks straight and looks dangerous, but the other 90% of the time he is a big hole that is taking up space in the team. Drop him to the 2's and as soon as his contract is up delist and try to forget yet another wasted pick from the 2004 draft.

Okay to be honest I may have gone a little overboard with both of these comments, but honestly he has been very inconsistent over the years and I still stand by my core sentiment. Monfries must lift in a big way and keep up it up consistently or falling back into a pattern of mediocrity. If he's not dropped this week for Jetta, then I see him as a prime candidate for when Prismall, McVeigh or Skipper are ready for selection.

As for some comments on Bellchambers. Too say he looks a long way off you must have been watching him extremely closely. In the two games he has played since being brought up from Bendigo he had 28% of game time on Sunday and 31% against Hawthorn last week. Considering Richmond don't exactly have the strongest ruck combination and that Bellchambers was recruited solely as a ruckman, maybe leaving him in the side and giving him some more game time might be exactly what he needs.

 

[High Ryder]

In Hurley

OUT Bellchambers

Hooker can relieve in ruck, play him or Hurley up forward Ryder is rucking. I like this move as it gives us more flexability.

 

[bomberz08]

Outs- Belly Davey [if suspended, unlikely]
Ins- Hurley, jetta [only if davey is susp.]

Hooker to pinch hit in the ruck. Resting zaka might be the right move, but wait till prismall is ready.

Hopefully ryder will be right, but if not leave belly in.

 

[silk]

Another small forward? I think you already answered your own question...

Except the monfries hardly plays small.
Maybe they could bring in hurley for him, and play mcphee in the mongries role, or even hurley.

 

[Boucks09]

Some interesting points in this thread. I watched Knights' press conference last night and he made the following points:

- He admitted he overworked Ryder and underused Bellchambers during the match. That is why Paddy came off with cramp at the end and he acknowledged that Bellchambers and Laycock need to help him more as the season progresses.

- He suggested that Hurley could play forward as he is a versatile player. Also mentioned that Pears and Hooker were doing a great job down back.

- Was wrapped with the progress of Dyson.

Given those comments I have my own theory on what I think we should do for next week. It is critical that we keep a sound team structure rather than playing guys out of position for the sake of 1-2 games. I think this is more beneficial for long term development.

Therefore Hooker should continue to play CHB rather than pinch hit in the ruck. He has been a revelation down there and needs to continue playing there. Given that, Bellchambers must play to give Paddy the chop out he needs for the rest of the season. It would be hard for any 19 y/o, let alone a ruckman up against two premiership ruckman, playing only 28% game time. However his work rate MUST LIFT. There is no excuse for being lazy when you play less than 40 minutes of football. I can't wait for Laycock to come back into the side. The second half of the season will determine whether he wants to make it as an AFL footballer.

Personally I think McPhee is at his best when playing wing/high forward. He has great work rate and is a hard match up for any team. He has filled a utlility role in the absence of Fletcher/Hurley down back, but given our clear need for a leading high forward he should be moved there and Hurely brought in as the 3rd defender. Hurley also gives us the advantage of having an elite long kicker to do the kicking out duties. Last night we had a combination of Myers, Lovett, Dempsey, Winderlich and Pears doing the job and it got us into trouble.

But who do we drop for Hurley? It's out of Myers, Houli and NLM.

For all the talk of Myers and Houli, they kept two small forwards who had kicked 9 goals between them the previous week, to 1 goal. Houli's disposal was attrocious in the first 1/4 but the rest of his game his defensive skills were great. He even backed into packs which was good to see.

Myers look fairly solid also and it appears he is playing a defensive role to free up Slattery to be more offensive. We have seen Hank have much more of the ball in the last two weeks and his disposal efficiency has been very very good.

NLM to me had a nothing game last night. I was suprised to see he had so much of the ball as watching it live I felt he had no impact. I agree with the other posters who have mentioned that he seems more effective as a 3rd tall forward. Given that I feel McPhee is better again in that position I don't see a role for Nat Rat in our structure.

Houli = great skills, indurance and improved defense
Myers = defensive game, long kick, long term development, leadership
NLM = dash, toughness, occasional recklessness

I feel Hurley can do all the good things Lovett-Murray can and that Nat Rat can't play on a smaller forward or shut a forward down. His omission is based on match ups rather than form but we need to stick with our youngsters. (FWIW I liked the idea of what Lovett Murray did with Riewoldt but it really was stupid. Hirdy said the same on the coverage. He could've done that earlier and made a statement, not when the game is lost)

To the forwards. I personally feel that Alwyn is a little jaded at the moment as he is doing all the forward pressure work on his own. That is why his tackling numbers and disposal efficiency is down. I would be surprised if he got suspended this week. Given that we are playing the Dreamtime Game this weekend, it is the perfect opportunity for Jetta to come into the side with confidence and shine. I said it last week that I feel our forward structure is 10x better with Leroy and Alwyn in the team. There will be no better time for him to step up.

I'm really pleased to hear we are starting to play Daniher on smaller forwards at Bendigo. To me that shows that we are looking at a long term future of playing Hurley, Pears, Hooker and Daniher in the same team which I think is great news.

Zaharakis should be omitted. Forget the talk of resting him, he should be omitted. I'm a massive fan of his but the facts are that he has played 1 good game (against the Hawks) in the last month (poor against St.Kilda, Brisbane and Collingwood). I also think he is making a few decision errors which is costing us (i.e handballing to stationary targets). He is also not taking the game on like he did earlier in the season and providing us with much run through the midfield and winning much ball. If Leroy had played 4 games with an average of 10 disposals and 1 goal he would be dropped. I'm wrapped that we have seen him play so many games but he now needs to earn his spot again at Bendigo. There is also no harm in him having a week of for all of the man management issues raised earlier but that should not be the reason he is left out of the side. We did the same with Lucas by saying he was omitted, we need to do the same with Zaha.

I really feel for Scotty Lucas. It is obvious he is going to find it hard playing in a side getting smashed by 100pts each week. Neagle has done plenty to show he should stay in the side and he work rate has improved heaps. If Scotty comes I feel we are going to have to shuffle a lot of our side around to fit him in. e.g. McPhee. It is possible but I don't think he has done enough yet. If he struggles to get a game in the next 2-3 weeks i've got a feeling that he may make an announcement.


In summary:

Outs: Zaharakis, Lovett-Murray
Ins: Jetta, Hurley

 

[pazza]

Just one change in terms of players, but a slightly different set-up.

Out: Houli
In: Jetta

B: H. Slattery, Pears, McPhee
HB: Demspey, Hooker, Dyson
C: Lovett, Watson, Hocking
HF: Monfries, Neagle, Myers
F: Jetta, Lloyd, Davey
R: Ryder, Stanton, Winderlich
Int: Bellchambers, Zaharakis, Lonergan, Lovett-Murray
Emerg: Houli, Hurley, Daniher

 

[lemon chicken]

In Hurley and Jetta

Out Myers and Zaharakis

We need another crumber in the forward 50. Davey is busting his guts and it is still coming out to easy. Myers is not up to it yet and does not deserve to be getting games on potential.

I dont know why we arent using Bellchambers more in the forward line rather than the bench.

 

[cAsEy_18]

IN: Jetta - Hurley
OUT: Bellchambers - Houli/Myers

I'd probably be going Myers out of the 2 of them, but Houli has really got to work on, not neccesarily his disposal, but more his decision making. Jetta has earnt his spot in the side, one of these 2 should make way. I've got Hurley coming in for Bellchambers as Hurley deserves to be in the side, Hooker doesn't deserved to be dropped, and we're simply not playing Bellchambers enough on the ground to warrant his spot in the side. I like Tommy, but there is no point picking a ruckman and playing him 30-40% of game time. Here, Ryder needs to do a fair bit of the ruck work, and Hooker as his support. Hooker is a nice size and athletic, he is a capable back up. Leaving Hurley, Pears, Hooker down back most of the game, and Hooker to go into the ruck for maybe 15-20% of the game. Big job for Ryder, but this allows us to play a balanced side on the field with Neagle, Lloyd and McPhee up forward, Hooker, Pears and Hurley down back, and 4 smalls on the bench to keep up our midfield run.

FB: Henry Slattery - Michael Hurley - Cale Hooker
HB: Courtenay Dempsey - Tayte Pears - Heath Hocking
C: Andrew Lovett - Jason Winderlich - Ricky Dyson
HF: Angus Monfries - Matthew Lloyd - Adam McPhee
FF: Alwyn Davey - Jay Neagle - Leroy Jetta
FOLL: Patrick Ryder - Sam Lonergan - Jobe Watson

INT: Bachar Houli/David Myers - Nathan Lovett Murray - David Zaharakis - Brent Stanton

My bad, forgotten 2 off the top of my head.

 

[hateitorlovett13]

NLM to me had a nothing game last night. I was suprised to see he had so much of the ball as watching it live I felt he had no impact. I agree with the other posters who have mentioned that he seems more effective as a 3rd tall forward. Given that I feel McPhee is better again in that position I don't see a role for Nat Rat in our structure.

There's your problem. You need to actually go to the game to see the influence NLM has on our game. The number of shephards, tackles and just basic hard, aggressive attack on the footy and body that he performs each game cannot be counted on two hands. And I cannot say that for any other player in our team atm- maybe when we get some injured players back, but definately not now.

 

[cawshezy]

Instead of: Out: Davey (suspended) how aboout......Out: Davey (Omitted)

Sick of his useless disposals and reckless turnovers. In jetta hurley though

His lost confidence in his possession couldn't agree more

 

[cawshezy]

IN: Jetta - Hurley
OUT: Bellchambers - Houli/Myers

Need to play Bellchambers as we need a back ruckman incase Ryder goes down.

 

[AndyLesPaul]

His lost confidence in his possession couldn't agree more

I don't think you've made a positive comment about Davey so much,

why do you hate him?

Though I have noticed him running too fast for his own good

 

[Boucks09]

There's your problem. You need to actually go to the game to see the influence NLM has on our game. The number of shephards, tackles and just basic hard, aggressive attack on the footy and body that he performs each game cannot be counted on two hands. And I cannot say that for any other player in our team atm- maybe when we get some injured players back, but definately not now.

Sorry by watching it live I meant watching it live at the ground.

I was on Level 3 so it was a little more difficult to see a lot of the 1%'s that NLM may have done. I certainly can understand what you are saying about his importance to the side and I think that he has done a good utlity role in the last 3 games. However I don't think that he does any specific role better than others, and the sum of his roles isn't enough to keep him in the side ahead of others.

Take the backline for example. The only people I could see him replacing would be Dempsey or Slattery who are both currently playing as rebounding defenders. Hurley is already IMHO a better 3rd tall defender in regards to his kicking skills and one-on-one marking. Whilst NLM does rebound well, I don't think he has the ablity to stop a forward in the same way as Slattery and Dempsey (surprising so this season). You can't have too many similar type players in the one team.

Up forward he could play as the 3rd tall. However I don't think his workrate on the lead is anywhere near a McPhee, and he is not able to displace Lloyd and Neagle as leading forwards. If Knights decides to keep McPhee down back until Fletcher returns then perhaps NLM could play there and Lloyd move further up the ground, but this is not ideal IMHO.

As I said originally I feel he should be left out in terms of team structure more than anything else. He is unlucky there is no question of that.

 

[cawshezy]

I don't think you've made a positive comment about Davey so much,

why do you hate him?

Though I have noticed him running too fast for his own good

Hey i like Davey but his looked lost on the field in the last month might be carrying an slight niggle with his knee

 

[cawshezy]

Sorry by watching it live I meant watching it live at the ground.

I was on Level 3 so it was a little more difficult to see a lot of the 1%'s that NLM may have done. I certainly can understand what you are saying about his importance to the side and I think that he has done a good utlity role in the last 3 games. However I don't think that he does any specific role better than others, and the sum of his roles isn't enough to keep him in the side ahead of others.

Take the backline for example. The only people I could see him replacing would be Dempsey or Slattery who are both currently playing as rebounding defenders. Hurley is already IMHO a better 3rd tall defender in regards to his kicking skills and one-on-one marking. Whilst NLM does rebound well, I don't think he has the ablity to stop a forward in the same way as Slattery and Dempsey (surprising so this season). You can't have too many similar type players in the one team.

Up forward he could play as the 3rd tall. However I don't think his workrate on the lead is anywhere near a McPhee, and he is not able to displace Lloyd and Neagle as leading forwards. If Knights decides to keep McPhee down back until Fletcher returns then perhaps NLM could play there and Lloyd move further up the ground, but this is not ideal IMHO.

As I said originally I feel he should be left out in terms of team structure more than anything else. He is unlucky there is no question of that.

Lovett-Murray four games this year have been better than his season last year Knights is finally playing him in a position he can, the forward line.

 

[AndyLesPaul]

Hey i like Davey but his looked lost on the field in the last month might be carrying an slight niggle with his knee

Quote a positive comment you've made about him?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Zaharakis should be omitted. Forget the talk of resting him, he should be omitted. I'm a massive fan of his but the facts are that he has played 1 good game (against the Hawks) in the last month (poor against St.Kilda, Brisbane and Collingwood). I also think he is making a few decision errors which is costing us (i.e handballing to stationary targets). He is also not taking the game on like he did earlier in the season and providing us with much run through the midfield and winning much ball. If Leroy had played 4 games with an average of 10 disposals and 1 goal he would be dropped. I'm wrapped that we have seen him play so many games but he now needs to earn his spot again at Bendigo. There is also no harm in him having a week of for all of the man management issues raised earlier but that should not be the reason he is left out of the side. We did the same with Lucas by saying he was omitted, we need to do the same with Zaha.

Great post Boucks, and I agree with what you say, but disagree slightly with this.

At the moment, Zaka seems to be playing the role Skipworth performed earlier in the year, as the small forward-cum-midfield option. Zaka played midfield against Fremantle, Carlton and North, but moved forward from the Collingwood game onwards. These were our changes for the Collingwood game:

In: Lovett-Murray, Lonergan, Myers, Hocking, Jetta
Out: Daniher (groin), Skipworth (hamstring), Quinn (omitted), Nash (omitted), McVeigh (ankle)

and on the day we played with an extra small forward, due to the predicted forecast of rain. In that list, NLM replaces Daniher, Lonergan replaces McVeigh, Myers replaces Nash, Jetta comes in for Quinn in a structural change and Hocking replaces Zaharakis, who replaces Skipworth.

Jetta played again the following week, on the smaller Gabba, which is more suited to small forwards, and our changes against Hawthorn were:

In: Neagle, Bellchambers, Houli
Out: Fletcher (leg), Jetta (knee), Lucas (omitted)

Obviously Neagle replaced Lucas, Bellchambers replaced Hooker who replaced Fletcher, and Houli came back in for structural reasons over Jetta (as in, we brought in a flanker for a crumber).

So it appears Knighter likes his forward structure to be:

2 key forwards (Lloyd, Neagle/Lucas)
1 3rd tall (McPhee, NLM)
1-2 genuine crumbers (Davey, (Jetta))
2 small forwards who offer a marking target at times (Monfries, Skipworth/Zaharakis)

So, with all of that established, I think that Zaka will keep his spot in the forward line for the next 1-2 weeks while Skippy returns, and will probably lose his spot, along with Dyson, when Prismall and McVeigh return. Personally, I see Houli coming out for Skippy, with Dyson going to defence, and Zaka to the midfield, then Zaka coming out for Prismall, and Dyson losing his spot for McVeigh, with Hocking going back, and McVeigh tagging (at least to start with).

 

[HULK HOGAN]

In Hurley and Jetta

Out Myers and Zaharakis

We need another crumber in the forward 50. Davey is busting his guts and it is still coming out to easy. Myers is not up to it yet and does not deserve to be getting games on potential.

I dont know why we arent using Bellchambers more in the forward line rather than the bench.

Probably cause the ball would come out even easier with Belly up there

 

[HULK HOGAN]

Great post Boucks, and I agree with what you say, but disagree slightly with this.

At the moment, Zaka seems to be playing the role Skipworth performed earlier in the year, as the small forward-cum-midfield option. Zaka played midfield against Fremantle, Carlton and North, but moved forward from the Collingwood game onwards. These were our changes for the Collingwood game:

In: Lovett-Murray, Lonergan, Myers, Hocking, Jetta
Out: Daniher (groin), Skipworth (hamstring), Quinn (omitted), Nash (omitted), McVeigh (ankle)

and on the day we played with an extra small forward, due to the predicted forecast of rain. In that list, NLM replaces Daniher, Lonergan replaces McVeigh, Myers replaces Nash, Jetta comes in for Quinn in a structural change and Hocking replaces Zaharakis, who replaces Skipworth.

Jetta played again the following week, on the smaller Gabba, which is more suited to small forwards, and our changes against Hawthorn were:

In: Neagle, Bellchambers, Houli
Out: Fletcher (leg), Jetta (knee), Lucas (omitted)

Obviously Neagle replaced Lucas, Bellchambers replaced Hooker who replaced Fletcher, and Houli came back in for structural reasons over Jetta (as in, we brought in a flanker for a crumber).

So it appears Knighter likes his forward structure to be:

2 key forwards (Lloyd, Neagle/Lucas)
1 3rd tall (McPhee, NLM)
1-2 genuine crumbers (Davey, (Jetta))
2 small forwards who offer a marking target at times (Monfries, Skipworth/Zaharakis)

So, with all of that established, I think that Zaka will keep his spot in the forward line for the next 1-2 weeks while Skippy returns, and will probably lose his spot, along with Dyson, when Prismall and McVeigh return. Personally, I see Houli coming out for Skippy, with Dyson going to defence, and Zaka to the midfield, then Zaka coming out for Prismall, and Dyson losing his spot for McVeigh, with Hocking going back, and McVeigh tagging (at least to start with).

That forward set up definately suits our style of play best!

 

[Valve Bounce]

Benny is out.