Changes vs Richmond

[The Fact]

You think Neagle can do better?

We have hit the problem with Lucas in good form and Neagle having a decent game in the VFL.

As much as I want to, I can't take you seriously after you saying that they should both retire at years end.

It Looks more than likely lucas wont be at essendon next year and although i think it very important for us to play finals this year lucas is not the difference nither is neagle but while neagle has had some bad games he has also played some alright games to and thats what u wont from a young KKP so why not get game time into him because like it or not i'd say neagle will be on the list next year while scotty probably wont so get some game time into the boy because he has shown some good signs.

 

[ant555]

This is bigfooty. Once you are over 28 - one bad game and it's curtains.

I always love how much crap Scotty gets yet he always seems to contribute. He does look slow and probably needs to be used more as a n impact player - but he still always looks our most potent forward.

Come on.
Go back through every game he has played this year and tell me what percentage he has outmarked anyone on a lead or one on one and then tell me he has been our most potenet forward.
On top of that his set shots at goal this year have been woefull. He has socred more opertunist goals than genuine power forward goals this year.

It has not been about one bad game. He has struggled since he came back from his knee injury last year.
Some people just don't want to take the blinkers off.
He has been a champion but his recent injuries have left him at the end of the road.

 

[ant555]

You think Neagle can do better?

We have hit the problem with Lucas in good form and Neagle having a decent game in the VFL.

As much as I want to, I can't take you seriously after you saying that they should both retire at years end.

I love this arguement.

Why does it have to be a Neagle v Lucas situation. Maybe we need to start working on a different set up that contains one KP forward and a resting ruckman and fill the rest of the forward line with smaller players.
Who says you have to have 2 talls up forward ?

Neagle has proven he won't do better at the moment but that is no reason to keep Lucas in the side if he can not put the runs on the board either.
You change the set up and go smaller up forward like many other sides or maybe you try Hurley forward or McPhee at CHF again.

 

[Skeeta Olly]

I love this arguement.

Why does it have to be a Neagle v Lucas situation. Maybe we need to start working on a different set up that contains one KP forward and a resting ruckman and fill the rest of the forward line with smaller players.
Who says you have to have 2 talls up forward ?

Neagle has proven he won't do better at the moment but that is no reason to keep Lucas in the side if he can not put the runs on the board either.
You change the set up and go smaller up forward like many other sides or maybe you try Hurley forward or McPhee at CHF again.

Great point.

Although, who is the forward coach?

Last night, it was an absolute shambles with one tall playing as a decoy, one playing up the ground and the lead up being Reimers. Is it the fault of the coach?

 

[HULK HOGAN]

I love this arguement.

Why does it have to be a Neagle v Lucas situation. Maybe we need to start working on a different set up that contains one KP forward and a resting ruckman and fill the rest of the forward line with smaller players.
Who says you have to have 2 talls up forward ?

Neagle has proven he won't do better at the moment but that is no reason to keep Lucas in the side if he can not put the runs on the board either.
You change the set up and go smaller up forward like many other sides or maybe you try Hurley forward or McPhee at CHF again.

Your correct we have to start lookin at other options because they are stairing us in the face, Hille coming back, Hurley doing well. We missed Hille Friday night and cant wait to have him back, also Gumby after a big pre-season. I don't like to say it but I just have this feeling Neagle may not cut the mustard but I hope Im wrong!

 

[ant555]

Great point.

Although, who is the forward coach?

Last night, it was an absolute shambles with one tall playing as a decoy, one playing up the ground and the lead up being Reimers. Is it the fault of the coach?

Well the forward coach comes up with several different scenarios to run during the night. Guess Richardson may be struggling to find an effective set up some weeks.

It is something i think Knights should sort out. I am sure that if we can get Lloyd coming out of the square with some Geelong type screening/blocking he can still be a 60 goal FF for a couple more years.
He is much better leading up at the ball than trying to wrestle the FB to take a one on one mark.

 

[rusman]

Have to agree with everything Ant has said here. Furthermore i have noticed inorder for lucas to be efficent he needs to kick 3-4 goals which i dont think he can keep up. His around the ground work just isnt good enough hes too slow and his big loopy kick doesnt suit out game plan as we have no big marking forwards. Lucas was a champ however injuries have slowed him down and im thinkings a smaller forward line might be an option with lloyd playing a deeper role. Or Maybe hurley or mcphee half forward. we have alot of tall backs atm which allows us flexibility up forward. Im also a huge fan of Ryder up forward when hooker goes into ruck. I think he could be a star there (hes a star where ever he is tho)

 

[SirJimi05]

Mark McVeigh should be the first person mentioned when they start discussing players under the gun. He has been woeful this season and he would be the 1st person i would drop.

I would also consider dropping Lucas. He has been OK but our setup has not worked all that well. What do people think about playing Gus Monfries out of the goal square? Then we can play McPhee or NLM in a lead up role and also have the option of a resting ruckman. I would like to see Ryder get more game time up forward as oppossed to being spelled.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Come on.
Go back through every game he has played this year and tell me what percentage he has outmarked anyone on a lead or one on one and then tell me he has been our most potenet forward.
On top of that his set shots at goal this year have been woefull. He has socred more opertunist goals than genuine power forward goals this year.

It has not been about one bad game. He has struggled since he came back from his knee injury last year.
Some people just don't want to take the blinkers off.
He has been a champion but his recent injuries have left him at the end of the road.

Has looked ok last few weeks. Last year came back with no match practice after 12-14 weeks out and this season missed a fair chunk of pre-season.
That would effect most players.

The delivery to the forward line was ordinary Friday night.

As for Neagle. I've seen nothing to suggest he's even worth another chance yet. Tough for him playing in such a crap VFL team. This Bendigo debacle is not doing us any favours, especially for any poor bastard playing up forward. Great for defenders though.

Hurley could play anywhere but to me CHB/FB for the next 10-12 years will do nicely.

Gumby and Hille returning could make things exciting (Ryder more time up forward).

As for this week, Bellchambers and Zaharakis in Reimers (inj) and Hooker out.

 

[yaco55]

You think Neagle can do better?

We have hit the problem with Lucas in good form and Neagle having a decent game in the VFL.

As much as I want to, I can't take you seriously after you saying that they should both retire at years end.

I am looking at the future in 2 or 3 years when hopefully EFC will be a top 4 team and contending for a premiership.

Whether Neagle, Still, Daniher, Hurley or Hooker is good enough - Is yet to be decided.

EFC needs to restructure the forward line for the future.

Have you given a viable alternative ?

 

[yaco55]

Has looked ok last few weeks. Last year came back with no match practice after 12-14 weeks out and this season missed a fair chunk of pre-season.
That would effect most players.

The delivery to the forward line was ordinary Friday night.

As for Neagle. I've seen nothing to suggest he's even worth another chance yet. Tough for him playing in such a crap VFL team. This Bendigo debacle is not doing us any favours, especially for any poor bastard playing up forward. Great for defenders though.

Hurley could play anywhere but to me CHB/FB for the next 10-12 years will do nicely.

Gumby and Hille returning could make things exciting (Ryder more time up forward).

As for this week, Bellchambers and Zaharakis in Reimers (inj) and Hooker out.

Lucas moved well the previous 2 weeks, but could harly move on Friday night.

He had enough one on one opportunities, against a developing player, but didn't look like it any stage.

The other issue with Lucas, is that teams are placing their third or fourth best defender on him, meaning that players like Monfries, Reimers, Winderlich are getting the second best defender - This is not an ideal situation !

 

[Knight Ryders]

If we take Lucas out, I wouldn't want Neagle in as he can only play one position - FF. Lloydy still one of the best out of the square, so Neagle is going to have to lose 3-5kg and come back a dominant force in 2010.

What I would like to see is lots of semi-tall forwards and small forwards continually moving and providing targets for our midfield coming through half back and the centre. Monfries, McPhee, NLM and Hurley can provide this. Skippy also seems to be able to provide an outlet as he always seems to be able to find space - may be a lack of respect? McPhee, NLM and Hurley can also play numerous positions, which helps team flexibility. While it would be great to have a Riewoldt or a Franklin, not many teams have that and make up for it with numerous leading options.

 

[dave_27]

OUT: Reimers

IN: Monfries

 

[dave_27]

Honestly would also love to see Myers and Houli in the side to freshen up the side abit and reward there VFL form but I just cant pick anyone else atm who really deserves to be dropped to make way for them.

God its a good feeling to have so many players available for selection. We've never had it like this at this time of the year for about 6 years.

 

[beev]

In: Bellchambers, Monfries

Out: Hooker, probably Reimers

 

[ant555]

Has looked ok last few weeks. Last year came back with no match practice after 12-14 weeks out and this season missed a fair chunk of pre-season.
That would effect most players.

The delivery to the forward line was ordinary Friday night.

As for Neagle. I've seen nothing to suggest he's even worth another chance yet. Tough for him playing in such a crap VFL team. This Bendigo debacle is not doing us any favours, especially for any poor bastard playing up forward. Great for defenders though.

Hurley could play anywhere but to me CHB/FB for the next 10-12 years will do nicely.

Gumby and Hille returning could make things exciting (Ryder more time up forward).

As for this week, Bellchambers and Zaharakis in Reimers (inj) and Hooker out.

I know Neagle is not in consideration but why does everyone presume that if we drop Lucas we have to bring in another tall ?
As far as the Bendigo debacle goes at least they have been in the picture in the last 4 weeks even if they have not got over the line. A few of the boys are actually getting some decent match practice over the last month.

I will say that i doubt Lucas will be dropped. Knights won't burn him on one game.

 

[Valve Bounce]

As good a carreer as Scott Lucas has had I don't believe we can have both Lloyd and Lucas on the forward line. Both are slow and Lucas missed opportunities on Friday night to get a quick kick away because he has no right foot and needs to turn to get on to his left. This takes time and = missed opportunity. Hurley was better value than Lucas on the forward and plays equally well at both ends of the ground. Monfries would be a good inclusion we missed his crumbing work around the goals.

Angus is great at lead and mark also. Yes! we missed the guy - he's good for 5 goals.

 

[ant555]

Angus is great at lead and mark also. Yes! we missed the guy - he's good for 5 goals.

What a differnce a week makes. Angus does not play against Sydney and we do not miss him at all and the first week we lose he is a major difference

Gus has been no different to a few others. He has had 3 or 4 really good games. A couple more good games and around 7 average games.
Yes we could have got good Angus and 3 or 4 goals but we could also have had average Angus with 12 or so disposals and no goals with a couple of behinds.

You could make an argument to say we missed Skippy and his 16 to 20ish disposal games with a goal or 2 and the extra midfield rotation he could have provided.

 

[Kong]

What a differnce a week makes. Angus does not play against Sydney and we do not miss him at all and the first week we lose he is a major difference

Gus has been no different to a few others. He has had 3 or 4 really good games. A couple more good games and around 7 average games.
Yes we could have got good Angus and 3 or 4 goals but we could also have had average Angus with 12 or so disposals and no goals with a couple of behinds.

I think we really missed Monfries on Friday night. Whether it was to do with the Bulldogs' defence, or our own terrible forward structure, we simply had no effective system going into our forward fifty.

Nearly every forward entry seemed to be 'booted' into the 50 in hope; high balls that were never of any benefit to us. Lake and co. would go third-man up and take an easy mark. I put it down to terrible midfield service, but also our lack of any decent forward structure.

This is where Gus would've been bloody handy; even though he might've only had a 15 possession and 1 goal game, his leads up and sure hands would've allowed us to enter our own foward fifty with greater effect.
With Lucas playing so ordinarily for most of this year, it is apparent that Monfries is effectively the equivalent of our CHF at times, and it allows Lloyd to lead out the goal square more often; the place he'll do the most damage.

I agree that Lucas hasn't been convincing at all, sadly.

 

[daffo]

Out : Reimers
In : Houli

Reimers didn't have the best game on the weekend and to be honest I don't think he has worked hard enough for his spot in the 22. Houli has been in our best the last three weeks at Bendigo, for his confidence, he should be brought in.
Watson should come up for the game.

 

[Bombs Away]

Ins Bellchambers (if fit, reports say he played with a small injury), Monfries

Outs Hooker and Reimers both injured

If watson is unfit to play (we know he is somewhat injured) then replace with houli/nlm/zaka

It doesnt matter what our INS and OUTS are, if we have the same umpires as last week we might be headed for trouble.

OUT McLaren and the other 2 canaries
IN Anyone who knows the rules and hasnt had a bet on the game.

 

[efcboy]

I wouldn't say give Watson a rest, unless he looks REALLY proppy, like on Friday, in which case he should've been rested in the first place.

watson copped a corkie during the game - that could have happened to anyone.

 

[efcboy]

i think against richmond is the perfect match to reduce ryder's load against two young ruckmen in graham/vickery and bring in bellchambers. we can't continue playing ryder in ruck for such long stints. with hurley looking better, hooker can have a spell until required.
mcveigh has been very ordinary and should be forced to earn his spot back thru vfl. houli looks a good matchup for nahas.
i'd give monfries another week to make sure he doesn't re-injure his hamstring.

in: bellchambers, houli
out: hooker, mcveigh.

 

[Macca18]

The best thing about this game is we played on Friday Night and now have a decent break until next Sunday to get over any little niggles after a fairly taxing game. The Tigers have two days less to recover from a fairly overwhelming draw against the Roos which will again benefit us.

It is a very important game for us to consolidate our spot in the top 8. Hawthorn & Port Adelaide, our main rivals at the moment, have very tough assignments in their respective matches so if we can overcome a side we really should beat it could potentially leave a fair bit of breathing space. Richmond aren't just going to lay down in this game unfortunately (it is Essendon we talking about) so it could be a tough afternoon at the office if we are not switched on from the start. If we are switched on and get off a good start on the scoreboard it is very important we don't put the foot off the pedal (like the game against Melbourne) and go on with the job as despite our percentage gap over our rivals it would not hurt to add a little more. A win is the main priority though. We like the MCG and have played our best footy this year at the ground.

Those suggesting McVeigh should be ommited may have a point but the reality is it is not going to happen. Reimers & Hooker could be our only ommisions.

 

[yaco55]

I think we really missed Monfries on Friday night. Whether it was to do with the Bulldogs' defence, or our own terrible forward structure, we simply had no effective system going into our forward fifty.

Nearly every forward entry seemed to be 'booted' into the 50 in hope; high balls that were never of any benefit to us. Lake and co. would go third-man up and take an easy mark. I put it down to terrible midfield service, but also our lack of any decent forward structure.

This is where Gus would've been bloody handy; even though he might've only had a 15 possession and 1 goal game, his leads up and sure hands would've allowed us to enter our own foward fifty with greater effect.
With Lucas playing so ordinarily for most of this year, it is apparent that Monfries is effectively the equivalent of our CHF at times, and it allows Lloyd to lead out the goal square more often; the place he'll do the most damage.

I agree that Lucas hasn't been convincing at all, sadly.

I am going crazy hearing about the poor delivery into the forward line.

The delivery into the forward line was solid, without being ,great.

One of the reasons players bombed the ball into the 50 was because our leading players couldn't mark the ball in the first half.

2 other points

- Lake dominated in the second half only as a third man up
- EFC took one mark in their forward 50 in the first half.