Preview Changes vs Swans

[huludicidal]

Salient - any top 10 draft picks amongst that lot?

Absolutely not (but you already knew that ).

Mzungu - pre-listed by the Suns, traded to Freo along with Pick 44 in exchange for Freo's Pick 39 (ie. cost less than Josh Jenkins)
Walters - pick 53
Clarke - pick 37
Dawson - preseason draft (originally pick 41 at hawks, then rookie listed by the Saints)
C Pearce - rookie list
D Pearce - FA (originally a rookie list selection at Port)
Spurr - rookie list

 

[AFC979810]

People with minimal understanding of football drastically underestimate the difference a tactically sound, well-run, well-coached football club makes to the appearance of a list, talent-wise.

The above comment is a snide self congratulatory (but well worded) statement that I am not disagreeing with.

All of the above makes a world of difference and you can have all of the above in place yet if you don't have the talent on the park in means shit all. We are an average side missing 6-7 out of our best 22. Our side did not have the talent on the Park that Geelong / Port had. No amount of coaching could fix that discrepancy and it showed.

Is Roos a shit coach at Melbourne now? Was Malthouse a shitty coach in 2005 when Collingwood fans were calling for his head? What about Worsfold? These are all premiership winners who have also won wooden spoons - what was the difference between those years - talent available to them on the park.

My point remains that we are an average list that has become even more average since we are missing Tex, VB, Henderson, Lynch, Otten to injury.

 

[AFC979810]

This. Could not have said it better.

In addition to the Geelong example given by Slippery Pete, look at Freo right now. Ross Lyon has made blokes like Tendai Mzungu, Michael Walters, Zac Clarke, Zac Dawson, Clancee Pearce, Danyle Pearce and Lee Spurr look like valuable AFL players. Had these players been at a tactically unsound, poorly-run, poorly-coached football club over the last 2.5 years, some or all of their careers may well be in the same toilet Jason Porplyzia's is now submerged in.

Salient - any top 10 draft picks amongst that lot?

You guys are talking about the best coached side in the land who lost the Grand Final to the most talented team in the league right - You know the Hawks who had 4 top 10 picks.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The champion data stuff measures the previous 40 games doesn't it? So Port's 2011 and 2012 seasons which stunk. It's not a measure of what their list was about to do, how many early picks had had a bit of a taste etc.

Geelong in 2006 was heralded as having an exceptionally talented list that had under-performed and the clock was ticking on Thompson.

We have some very average footballers running around. Now - that's not a free pass for Sando in the slightest. He is picking these guys and has been for two and a bit seasons. If they don't have the skills to execute his game plan he should have moved them on or at least picked other players.

 

[Tex200]

You guys are talking about the best coached side in the land who lost the Grand Final to the most talented team in the league right - You know the Hawks who had 4 top 10 picks.

They still made it to the dance and might have snatched it but for some stage fright - you betting against them getting there again this year?

Anyway - I think the point is well made

 

[Cap]

Laird is going to be a really good player for this club

Play a lot of footy for us?

 

[GROTTO]

If they don't have the skills to execute his game plan he should have moved them on or at least picked other players.

But he has been handicapped by firstly us doing a number on Rendall which we further exacerbated by the Tippett saga and sanctions against us.

 

[Slippery Pete]

The above comment is a snide self congratulatory (but well worded) statement that I am not disagreeing with.

It was a bit, wasn't it?

All of the above makes a world of difference and you can have all of the above in place yet if you don't have the talent on the park in means shit all. We are an average side missing 6-7 out of our best 22. Our side did not have the talent on the Park that Geelong / Port had. No amount of coaching could fix that discrepancy and it showed. .

If you're arguing that the injuries we have right now make up most of the difference, then that's a different argument altogether.

Is Roos a shit coach at Melbourne now? Was Malthouse a shitty coach in 2005 when Collingwood fans were calling for his head? What about Worsfold? These are all premiership winners who have also won wooden spoons - what was the difference between those years - talent available to them on the park.

Worsfold and Malthouse went through club-sanctioned bottoming out periods. They gutted their lists, took the draft picks, and planned for their next premiership with the blessing of their respective clubs. That's something very different to what we're doing right now.

Roos has been coaching Melbourne for five minutes, so too early to judge anything about that situation.

My point remains that we are an average list that has become even more average since we are missing Tex, VB, Henderson, Lynch, Otten to injury.

Interesting quote in that 2013 article from Alan Richardson

"We look at all clubs - how they improve, where do we need to go, what is the model to win a flag and I think most of the industry would have sat back and admired the way Adelaide went about their footy," Richardson said.

In 12 months we've gone from being a club Port modelled themselves on, to an also-ran, and that's all of a sudden because of our list?

 

[amer]

Fumbles are terminal.

Poor kicks are terminal.

Both at the same time...

Coupled with high, slow handballs...

The miracle is that we've spluttered to life both
weeks and actually got our noses in front, despite us playing dreadfully.

Is it poor form or poor footballers?

I don't think it is sublimely skilled footballers playing the wrong game plan. Though it is difficult to discern yet what the game plan actually is given our ineptitude.

We have good list talent which is why we got so close in 2012. That game plan was nothing sophisticated, nothing difficult to do and we were able to apply it effectively because we had a lot of individual flair and ability through the group. The game plan of 2014 isn't discernible just yet, you're right.

 

[King Elvis]

Actually during the Craig era we were called the Crowbots for the manner in which we moved the ball from one end to another methodically, systematically and consistently. It was one of the best H&A seasons we had with the way we played during those years.
I really enjoyed watching us play week in and week out.

Even in 97 and 98 our H&A record was nothing special. We were ranked underdogs in both GFs too.

Thinking of 05/06 still turns me on - we played some absolutely devastating football; arguably some of the best footy I've ever seen. That game where we absolutely destroyed Essendon, as an example.

It was pure magic to watch.

 

[GROTTO]

If Talia didnt break his arm, we probably would have been sitting in a grand final in 2012.

 

[Vooligan]

If Talia didnt break his arm, we probably would have been sitting in a grand final in 2012.

Looking at 2006 is worse... If Mark Ricciuto, If Rhett Biglands, if Trent Hentshel etc etc. That is the year we had the premiership cup taken right out of our hands.

 

[GROTTO]

Looking at 2006 is worse... If Mark Ricciuto, If Rhett Biglands, if Trent Hentshel etc etc. That is the year we had the premiership cup taken right out of our hands.

 

[Tex200]

Looking at 2006 is worse... If Mark Ricciuto, If Rhett Biglands, if Trent Hentshel etc etc. That is the year we had the premiership cup taken right out of our hands.

Some rose coloured glasses there.

We were playing a prelim and;

1. We were playing at home
2. We were playing a side who had not had the benefit of a week of as we did
3. We were 4 goals up at half time
4. We were kicking with a strong wind in the third quarter
5. We conspired to lose

No, it was not taken, we handed it over - in that inglorious way that is the hallmark of this club

 

[Vooligan]

Some rose coloured glasses there.

We were playing a prelim and;

1. We were playing at home
2. We were playing a side who had not had the benefit of a week of as we did
3. We were 4 goals up at half time
4. We were kicking with a strong wind in the third quarter
5. We conspired to lose

No, it was not taken, we handed it over - in that inglorious way that is the hallmark of this club

That day still burns me. Burns me more than any other loss in the history of the AFC. Our best opportunity and we blew it.

 

[AFC979810]

Interesting quote in that 2013 article from Alan Richardson

"We look at all clubs - how they improve, where do we need to go, what is the model to win a flag and I think most of the industry would have sat back and admired the way Adelaide went about their footy," Richardson said.

In 12 months we've gone from being a club Port modelled themselves on, to an also-ran, and that's all of a sudden because of our list?

How long were we a side that Port modeled themselves on? 5 minutes? We finished 14th in 2010 and 11th in 2011 and then had a dream run in 2012. Our shit 2013 confirmed that 2012 is the outlier, not the true indication of our list. We haven't gone from a powerhouse to an also ran in a season, we never were that good.

In my opinion the dual loss of Walker / Tippett has been the biggest factor between the way we played in 2012 compared to the way we played in 2013 (and as an extension 2014). There are other factors too, but I believe this is the #1.

There are so many flow on affects from having both Tippett and Walker up forward. It impacted the way we moved the ball forward the way defenses set up against us - always mindful they needed to double team one of either Walker or Tippo.

Now of course it can be argued that the coaching staff didn't adjust the gameplan well enough to accommodate these losses, but when you replace quality like Walker and Tippett for Jenkins, Smack, Johnston, Otten the consequences are going to be massive.

 

[AFC979810]

They still made it to the dance and might have snatched it but for some stage fright - you betting against them getting there again this year?

Anyway - I think the point is well made

They will make it. They won't win it. Be interesting to see what Lyon does if he goes zero wins from 5 attempts in the big dance.

 

[Bailey01]

Is CEY a chance?

 

[jackster83]

No we haven't. We lost contested marks to Geelong 13-8. We lost contested marks to Port 8-7. Hardly a smashing. Contested marking is becoming less and less relevant in 2014.

Players are holding onto the ball and going for the easier option rather than kicking to a contest. If they are forced to kick to a contest they are kicking to a pack (rather than a 1on1) so that the ball can be killed.

7.5 contested marks per game is pretty shite though (for a small sample size of games played in dry conditions).

Fun fact: we have also conceded the second most marks inside 50 in the comp.

 

[GROTTO]

That day still burns me. Burns me more than any other loss in the history of the AFC. Our best opportunity and we blew it.

I remember being so sad, I went to sleep early that evening after the game and woke up the next day.

 

[GROTTO]

7.5 contested marks per game is pretty shite though (for a small sample size of games played in dry conditions).

Fun fact: we have also conceded the second most marks inside 50 in the comp.

Fun fact 2: we have conceded the most points against in the comp.

 

[1970crow]

Talia will wrap that overpaid dickhead up and keep him to a goal or less.

Buddy's 'key forward' days should be behind him. He'd be an enormous tall winger/high half forward. He'll be lucky to take take more than a dozen contested marks in any yet to occur season. Confident that he will adapt and continue to be elite.

Needs to get rid if the beard though.

Talia is good, but he can't counteract speed. He's the truck replacement, but we will continue to roll with both.

 

[Ravenous Crow]

If Talia didnt break his arm, we probably would have been sitting in a grand final in 2012.

If Sandi and McPharlin lined up against us in the semi final, we would've been knocked out in straight sets.

Only losers consider themselves victims of fate.

 

[Apsaalooke]

If Sandi and McPharlin lined up against us in the semi final, we would've been knocked out in straight sets.

Only losers consider themselves victims of fate.

You may be right, but it doesn't change the validity of the statement

 

[Crowbots are dead]

Must admit I haven't seen this from him.

on the weekend I thought LJ did this many times. There is also absolutely no second effort. Its like he just stops and thinks ' oh well I'll wait until it comes back'. I wouldn't be so fustratedwith LJ if I didn't think he had the talent. Outside of Betts we don't have one fit forward without glaring deficiencies that the coaches must urgently address