Preview Changes vs Sydney

[Mike Smyth]

FFS one bad game from Otten, who has been one of this seasons highlights, and some want him dropped. Lets look at the guys who have failed consistently this year.

IN: Johncock (defense), McKernan, Crouch.
OUT: Reilly, McKay, Martin.

The gold pass must end for McKay and Reilly after too many ordinary games. Van Berlo is lucky to keep his spot but adds nothing, except of course his off field leadership.

 

[sbenno]

Can't agree with you, I'm afraid. He wasn't in the original 22 selected and only came in when the weather forecast made McKernan's position untenable. Assuming a return to sane weather conditions next week then he should be straight back to the SANFL. He did nothing to warrant further selection and doesn't have the right to be regarded as an incumbent.

Fair point.

What was the reasoning behind bringing him in for mckernan? Purely structural? If so that suggests to me that both players were borderline anyway, and that neither has a strong claim to incumbency.

I don't know who else goes out, I could only listen to the game, so I can't really make a solid judgement there. Martin may not have done that much, but any judgement based on 1 game is probably premature.

On a different note, I'm surprised that he was the one brought in for smack. I would have thought either wright or callinan would have been better suited to a wet weather game.

 

[NTRabbit]

OUT: Martin, Brown, Mackay

IN: McKernan, and I'll pick two smalls after the SANFL round is finished. Jaensch, Grigg, Tambling and Henderson all seem to be chances at this stage, based on stats rather than actually seeing them.

Porplyzia to wear the green vest once more, because there is a night and day difference between his performances when starting on the ground, and when starting on the pine.

 

[Elite Crow]

Out: Brown
In: Doughty

 

[BigLefty]

I've got a problem with our side right now. i keep seeing 22 players that are performing ok, yet not to last seasons standard.

i want to believe that Kerridge, Laird, Lyons, Brown, Jenkins and Lynch are all playing good footy. and i'm actually quite satisfied watching games anf seeing the improvement in these guys.

there's a problem though. WE'RE NOT WINNING!

WTF?

 

[BigLefty]

Catch 22 for you Martin out McKernan in

 

[MRB37]

OUT: Mackay, Porps
IN: Crouch, McKernan

McKernan in as his usual spot. Mumford was looking good from what I saw against Essendon and him and Pyke will be tough going for Jacobs and Smack. Crouch in cause he's a gun. Martin sucked, but as was said, hard to judge him in a game like that. If you're going to bring him in, give him a few games to see how he goes.

I could also imagine them making a Brown - Jaensch swap too.

 

[Bob Neil]

Alex

It was more than that missed mark, go back and watch the replay to see how many times Otto made a choice to go to ground instead of keeping his feet.... Very soft in my books

However with that said his strong season form saves him from an absolute woeful performance

The thing that annoys me most re Otten (and I generally like him and am not calling for his head despite a poor game yesterday) is the woeful nature of his tackles. Every week he either misses tackles or lays the proverbial jumper tackle which allows his opponent to still get an effective possession away.

 

[1970crow]

VB wasn't even that bad. People really have some against the guy, have no idea why.

Because he's captain and about the all we seem to be able to say this year is that he wasn't that bad. He deserves his place in the team, but there shouldn't be many ahead of him in the out queue. But due to his captain status, there is legitimate concern that he will carried regardless of form. Some posters may be a couple of weeks early, but hes treading water relying on players not coming up underneath him. I'd say the same about McKay, Reilly and (sadly) porps.

 

[hey shorty]

We lost by 7 points to a side who will finish top 4 on a day that suited then to a tee. Now I hate losing but theres no real need for some kneejerk reactions here. Otten has one bad gamme and we call for his head, VB was nowhere near as bad as some people suggest although his form is somewhat concerning. We want to play youth but Brown isnt playing his role as well ashe was when we were struggling.

Mckay out for Jaensch who has been good since going back to Sturt. Put him high half forward. Porp back in the vest. Let the game slow down a bit and he can still offer plenty as he has shown. Sadly not a 4 quarter player anymore. Martin for Smack. I like Martin but he doesn't offer anything we dont already have. Hendo in for Brown, give the lad a spell. He will be a good player but dont ruin him. Reilly gets one more chance and then it could be time to see what Grigg has to offer.

Sydney are on fire right now and we will struggle to win the game if we play like yesterday but its possible. And just as a side note, if Dougy continues and wins a 2nd jacket, does that make him an All time great of the AFC....... whodathunkit

 

[Team DJ]

OUT:
Porplyzia, Martin, McKay
IN:
Crouch McKernan Wright

 

[Mismatched]

Because he's captain and about the all we seem to be able to say this year is that he wasn't that bad. He deserves his place in the team, but there shouldn't be many ahead of him in the out queue. But due to his captain status, there is legitimate concern that he will carried regardless of form. Some posters may be a couple of weeks early, but hes treading water relying on players not coming up underneath him. I'd say the same about McKay, Reilly and (sadly) porps.

Exactly, a captains spot should be unquestionable, he shouldn't have a large portion of his supporter base questioning his performance on a weekly basis and saying "he's captain so he won't lose his spot but..." or have posters defending him sayin "he wasn't that bad..." See the likes of Danger, Thommo, Sloane, Walker and Rutten. How many captains in the AFL have such a portion of their fan base questioning their captains spot in the side?

 

[Team DJ]

Ohhh how i love everyone calling for Mckernan to come back in.

 

[The Karma Bus]

Port swapped the captaincy and they could finally not play Cassisi..
I struggle to remember a captain ever being dropped..

The excuse of injury was used by some to protect VB from scrutiny a few years ago.. Still waiting for his form..

 

[Elite Crow]

I'm not a VB fan but I thought he was ok yesterday. Started off well and dropped off after that.

Out: Martin and Porps, DMack if injured
In: Crouch and Smack

Tough in Martin and I'd like to see him get a decent run but he butchered nearly every possession yesterday.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Folks you can't stamp a guy's card based on being the sub with 6 minutes to go in the third quarter of a hot, tight contest. What were people expecting Martin to do?

But on the flip side, our use of the sub at times has been mind boggling. The sub needs to be an impact player, the exact type of player who can come into a game at THAT point and make a difference. That's an extremely difficult thing to do, and it certainly isn't the forte of a guy like Brodie Martin.

If we continue to use the sub as the 22nd man picked, instead of as a tactical impact player, we will continue to experience scenarios like yesterday. Not only that, it's not fair on Martin.

 

[King Elvis]

Just to reiterate, while I think Otten has been 'OK' at best, my issue with him is structural. Unless he can chalk up ~20 quality, attacking touches a week, then we can't afford to have him in the backline.

He's a shadow of the player he was in 2009, looks laconic and looks too big and slow. If he can get back to 2009, he's an automatic selection - but, until then, structurally, it'd be nice to have AT LEAST ONE player in our defense who runs with the footy and makes good, quick, attacking decisions.

Put Vince back there, give him a shot as the loose man in defence.

As for VB, he's been overtaken by a number of players, and appears to have gone backwards himself. List the players you'd select in front of him, and the guys behind him.

I'd have Wright in the team before him, on performance, and I'd have Crouch and Lyons in the side ahead of him partly on performance and partly on potential.

If he wasn't the Captain, he'd be a fringe player - which is a great thing, it means our younger players are developing and improving.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Elvis

I totally agree with your post, even though Otto's form has been good this season his lack of mobility is a concern and the manner in which he goes to ground in a contest is not only soft but a huge risk to the side....

To me Otto is a week by week horses for courses selection and small forward structure and the wet conditions proves this very point, Otto should never again play as the spare, he lacks mobility, goes to ground and lacks penetration

I personally still believe that Otto may not be as highly rated within the club and may be used as trade bait o push us up the draft

 

[Elite Crow]

Folks you can't stamp a guy's card based on being the sub with 6 minutes to go in the third quarter of a hot, tight contest. What were people expecting Martin to do?

But on the flip side, our use of the sub at times has been mind boggling. The sub needs to be an impact player, the exact type of player who can come into a game at THAT point and make a difference. That's an extremely difficult thing to do, and it certainly isn't the forte of a guy like Brodie Martin.

If we continue to use the sub as the 22nd man picked, instead of as a tactical impact player, we will continue to experience scenarios like yesterday. Not only that, it's not fair on Martin.

The best subs we've had this year have been Lyons and Porps. I agree it's harsh on Martin, I'd love to give him a decent run. Yesterday he was just awful, some of his kicks and decision making were mind boggling. Now if we agree that he can't be sub whose spot does he take given we need to get Crouch and Smack in. If DMack is injured there's a spot, if he comes up who goes out?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Where did ANYONE suggest him going to ground was a problem before this round?

Maybe Elvis did yesterday morning but now everyone who wants him out of the side is jumping on that bandwagon.

He will be in the top 7 of out best and fairest at thus stage of the season.

Dangerfield
Douglas
Thompson
Rutten
Talia
Otten
Jenkins

 

[Elite Crow]

Sloane would be top 2

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Alex

I have repeatedly been a critic of Otto, I also gone as far as saying early in the season that he is book marked to be traded

Blind man Freddy can see the issues with his game.

1. Lacks mobility
2. Tackling technique is the worse on our list
3. Has a history of not staying in a contes and going to ground

Again I have continuously repeated these concerns and I have it on very good mail that these concerns are shared by the footy department and this is largely why Shaw is rated before Otto, why Sando is looking for another defender in the off season and why I said early in the year book mark it that Otto will be traded

There are to many people still seduced by Otto rookie year and yes he is solid under the high ball however he continues to be a liability once the ball hits the ground or if he needs to stand up in a contest

Trading Otto may seem a tough call however he is one player that will have some market value who I don't believe is rated as highly internally

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Fair point.

What was the reasoning behind bringing him in for mckernan? Purely structural? If so that suggests to me that both players were borderline anyway, and that neither has a strong claim to incumbency.

I don't know who else goes out, I could only listen to the game, so I can't really make a solid judgement there. Martin may not have done that much, but any judgement based on 1 game is probably premature.

On a different note, I'm surprised that he was the one brought in for smack. I would have thought either wright or callinan would have been better suited to a wet weather game.

Unfortunately his game yesterday was so ordinary you can make judgements .......not as if he is a kid anymore

What i don't understand is why Riley wasn't used ? ......yes i understand he wasn't one of the emergencies ....oversight based on weather forecast?
Yesterday was Rileys element

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Elvis

I totally agree with your post, even though Otto's form has been good this season his lack of mobility is a concern and the manner in which he goes to ground in a contest is not only soft but a huge risk to the side....

To me Otto is a week by week horses for courses selection and small forward structure and the wet conditions proves this very point, Otto should never again play as the spare, he lacks mobility, goes to ground and lacks penetration

I personally still believe that Otto may not be as highly rated within the club and may be used as trade bait o push us up the draft

Tradeable option at years end? .......would we get a second round pick for Otto and would that be enough to get Gorringe

IMO Otten for Gorringe ......not a direct swap but picks

 

[JP Sauce]

Ohhh how i love everyone calling for Mckernan to come back in.

I think I speak for many here when I say that I don't think he's any good but if it's not pissing down he helps our structure and we need him against a team with real ruckman.

Also he wasn't dropped for form, just match ups. And we lost. So it's almost guaranteed that he'll come back in.