Changes vs The Crows

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

After this thread, I'm investing in popcorn futures and hoping that Match Committee keep Cordy in on Thursday, or even name him at FF. This place is going to go off like Draft night last year.....

Boyd rested, Cordy named at full forward with no tall support around him. Oh, and Talia out for somebody short.

 

[TimlinOfficial]

I see there being six realistic options for us to solve this dilemma. There are plenty of other, more obscure lineups, but these are the major ones. I'm going to type out three of them in the hope that the answer will become clearer to me by doing so (it's not to procrastinate on uni work I promise). I might type out the other three later; I'll see. These are in no particular order (I lie - they're in the order of which ones I could come up with snappy, awful titles for).

#1: The Inanimate Carbon Rod
This is the one where last week's structure is maintained - Minson in the ruck, Boyd up forward, with Cordy taking most of the backup ruck work. Labelled after an inanimate carbon rod as said rod would have as much direct impact on the game as Cordy.

Pros:

• Ruck work - Cordy is the tallest option in the side, meaning that at 204cm it does take a little bit of work to outpoint or outreach him. He is not a heavy accumulator of hitouts, but he does contest them relatively well. Our midfield is not as potent as it is with Minson in the ruck (no shit), but we don't lose too much defensively as Cordy is good at interfering with opposition tap work to ensure their hitouts aren't perfectly down the throat of their teammate. We don't get this edge with most other options.
• Ground coverage - whether you subscribe to the school of thought that sees Cordy as "mobile" or not, he covers a lot of ground. This means that his opponent is forced to work, and also that he's not often caught in downright awful positions. He can also run out a game well.
• Accountability - Cordy, more often than not, keeps his direct opponent relatively quiet for much of the game. While he has little impact himself he doesn't allow his man to run off him and doesn't give up separation easily.
• Support for Minson - while theoretically anybody can offer varying amounts of support for Minson, Cordy can do it for longer stints than most and is not a vital cog elsewhere. We're able to keep Minson fit for the entire game without robbing Peter to pay Paul.
• Space inside 50 - Cordy works heavily up the ground. This allows Boyd much more freedom inside 50 - he doesn't have another key position player competing for the mark, and most importantly, he doesn't have a second key defender attempting to spoil him. It also creates a greater margin for error - more space = more opportunities for other players. If we structure up appropriately the space Cordy generates can be worked into and, if done properly, end up more effective than having a secondary tall option.

Cons:

• 'Round-the-ground involvement - Cordy may as well borrow Harry Potter's invisibility cloak during games - you'd see him just as much. He doesn't get involved in play at all. Not much pressure, not many tackles, not many disposals, doesn't win contested ball, doesn't win uncontested ball, doesn't put himself in clever positions for outlets, doesn't generate overlap run, doesn't present at the ball carrier...in fact, he often runs away from the ball when the ball carrier is looking for an option. Simply put Cordy's stat sheet is often bare.
• Lack of secondary option inside 50 - Cordy doesn't present and doesn't provide a contest. If Boyd is well held and our smalls struggle to get into the game we don't really have a plan 'B' with Cordy in the side, short of playing undersized.
• Negative impacts - Cordy has a tendency to give away free kicks and have clangers - obviously not ideal.
• Pressure - the space that Cordy creates also means that it's easier for opponents to rebound and more difficult for us to pressure the forward 50. Not great for our current game plan.

#2: The Best Defence is a Good Offence
The other main option - Cordy out, Redpath in. Boyd to support Minson in the ruck. Labelled as such due to Redpath's, um...questionable defensive abilities.

Pros:

• Secondary forward option - Redpath and Boyd both draw the football and are capable of clunking them if on. It's a more potent offence as the ball movement is less predictable - and there's a greater chance of one of the two being on, than one of one.
• Versatility - Redpath and Boyd can share duties up the ground, and closer to goal. This can create an element of unpredictability and make us more difficult to defend as matchups may need to switch accordingly.
• Boyd's involvement - without doubt, Boyd is going to struggle to have an impact up forward at times this year. If the service dries up, he's having a bad day, or his opponent is cleaning him up, an opportunity in the ruck will see him get his hands on the ball a bit more and perhaps help him to work into the game.
• General play involvement - Redpath is capable of leading up to the wings and create that down-the-line marking option, or at the very least present and get us moving the ball forward. He gets involved. This can help to create a more direct avenue to goal, which creates more scoring opportunities.
• Taking advantage of the Crows' weakness (only relevant for this week) - Hartigan is fairly woeful. Redpath can at least make him accountable and take advantage of this.

Cons:

• Accountability - Redpath is about as accountable as a stray washing machine sitting at CHF. Defenders run off him easily and he more or less lets them. They impact the play, take intercept marks, set up scoring chains and affect the ability of our other forwards to take marks or win the ball otherwise. This has been a serious problem at all levels Redpath has played and has improved only minimally.
• Lack of space inside 50 - Redpath and Boyd had a few moments in the pre-season where they would get in each others' ways and thus impact the other's game.
• Risk of injury - the ruck is an incredibly physical position, and many coaches/trainers don't like throwing kids in there at AFL level as their bodies get beaten up. Let's be honest, Boyd getting a long-term injury would be awful for us - not only would it harm his development, but it would cause our structure to disintegrate and our current debate to be exacerbated (Campbell and Cordy? Redpath and Cordy? Redpath and Stringer? A handgun or a noose?). Playing Boyd in the ruck increases this risk.
• Boyd's "zone" - there will be times, as Boyd develops, that he gets into a "zone" where he's marking everything and worrying his opponent, and our structure is working well because of it. The last thing you want to do is force him into the ruck and kill off that potency forward of centre, and it's something that would likely be necessary at some stage in this scenario. He's not fit enough to push up and back constantly so, realistically, he's not going to be capable of impacting in the forward line as a ruckman.

#3: The Caleb Daniel Extravaganza
This doesn't feature Caleb Daniel - sorry to disappoint. This scenario has us playing a small forward line. It means replacing Cordy with a player from another position - a defender, small forward, whatever the position that Matt Fuller tries to play is, whatever. Just not a key forward, nor a ruckman. Stringer or Crameri will play at CHF, with Boyd at FF, supporting Minson in the ruck. When Boyd rotates into the ruck we look ultra small - Stringer, Crameri, then probably Dickson as that third option. This scenario is titled as such because Caleb Daniel is small...get it? If you got this far into my post, congratulations. I don't know how you managed it.

Pros:

• Unpredictability - more often than not, key defenders don't like playing on smaller guys who are extremely mobile and good at ground level. With this setup we can look to expose that. With no defined target, it encourages the lowering of the eyes and ensures that all defenders guard their man closely, rather than peeling off.
• Proven talent - let's be honest, neither Redpath or Cordy have proven to be reliable options at AFL level. In this scenario, we know that Boyd, Stringer and Crameri can offer something at the level.
• More options to run through the middle - without naming that second key forward we're able to rotate more players through the midfield, lessening the aerobic impact, and ensuring that we have relatively fresh players cycling through the most important part of the ground.
• Boyd's involvement - see previous scenario.
• Versatility - the possibilities are endless here...Boyd deep with support? Stringer/Crameri/Dickson one out? Pushing up and back heavily? Etc etc. So many options for us to try if others don't work.
• Pressure - nobody wants to deal with the pressure that a small forward line can apply - particularly when two of the smalls are Honeychurch and Dahlhaus, with Dickson also improving and Picken a possibility to play there.

Cons:

• Risk of injury - see previous scenario.
• Unpredictability - yes, this is both a positive and a negative as, while being unpredictable can fool defenders, being too unpredictable can fool our players and lead to poor movement, poor delivery and poor potency.
• Set shots - how do I put this...let's just say that with many of our smaller types, if we were to give them a set shot at goal and a donkey a set shot at goal, the donkey would probably get closer. This scenario means that, at times, there'll be nobody to provide a big contest for the smaller types to crumb (and the chances of Boyd creating one when down there are reduced as he'll be double teamed). As a result, we rely more heavily on the likes of Stringer, Honeychurch and Dahlhaus leading, marking and sinking those set shots and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that as yet.
• Boyd's "zone" - see previous scenario.
• Ease of interception - any small forward line relies heavily on superb skills, otherwise the opposition's taller defenders will just sit in front and intercept all day. We don't have superb skills. Bail out kicks will be swallowed up instantly.
• Double teaming - already touched on this slightly but if you play small, Boyd will be double teamed constantly. As soon as the ball is directed to him defenders will peel off their man and affect the contest. Just too easy.
• Failure to capitalise on opposition weakness (only relevant for this week) - as mentioned, Hartigan isn't a great player and can be exposed if played correctly (ie. played tall). A small forward line doesn't capitalise on this advantage.

Obviously some additional pros/cons that I haven't mentioned but that's more than enough from me. All very different scenarios with relatively unique pros/cons. All depends on how you weight the pros and cons.

Great post mate, summed it up well. Inanimate Carbon Rod, brilliant. Seems pretty clear to me though, that despite Campbell's indifferent form, he offers more than Cordy offensively, and the cons incurred by having Cordy in the side are somewhat negated. He's also more likely than Cordy to one day assume Minson's role. Cordy out, Campbell in for me

 

[Dogsman16]

Something that nobody could provide? I get you don't want Campbell in the side but this quite is just plain wrong as he can definitely provide half decent tap work.

Campbell has also kicked 4 goals in a game so he can't be that useless forward. Going off memory only he seems to kick at least a goal every time he plays.

I'd even be okay with Boyd playing mostly CHF while Campbell's at FF and when he goes into the ruck Boyd goes deep. That way we always have a very tall option at FF who can clunk a few marks and bring the ball to ground and we have a very good lead up CHF providing an option in Boyd.

I'd rather play ******* Caleb Daniel in the second ruck/forward position over Cordy. I'm not usually one to write off players but gee surely no one can argue he's been anything but absolutely useless. I'm sceptical on a Boyd/Campbell forward line but I will bet anyone big money it will do better than Cordy has the last couple of weeks.

Boyds just as good in the ruck as Cordy is anyway IMO. Like Bev has said a number of times, he's a good tap Ruckman, why not utilise that.

100% spot on, anybody can do a better job than Cordy at that CHF spot, and for all those who praise Cordy for his endurance, he uses absolutely none of it to make any sort of meaningful contribution to our team whatseover. Campbell/Roberts whoever just give them an opportunity in the forward half and Tommy Boyd can do a little bit of the ruck in the oncoming weeks. Better yet if we bring in Campbell Tom doesn't have to ruck. Adelaide have Sam Jacobs who will spend 80% of the game in the ruck so big wilbur can just go head to head and we can get some output from Boyd if he isn't marking everything. Even against Sydney Wilbur should smash Pike and Longer the week after so do we really need to play a specialist 2nd ruck.

When we get the ball, it would be more beneficial for Cordy to run laps around the ground than what he is doing now, effectively he is getting in teammates way, getting his 2 handballs a game and looking like a big lumbering giraffe that does nothing. Boy he gives me the irrates.

 

[doggies ftw]

100% spot on, anybody can do a better job than Cordy at that CHF spot, and for all those who praise Cordy for his endurance, he uses absolutely none of it to make any sort of meaningful contribution to our team whatseover. Campbell/Roberts whoever just give them an opportunity in the forward half and Tommy Boyd can do a little bit of the ruck in the oncoming weeks. Better yet if we bring in Campbell Tom doesn't have to ruck. Adelaide have Sam Jacobs who will spend 80% of the game in the ruck so big wilbur can just go head to head and we can get some output from Boyd if he isn't marking everything. Even against Sydney Wilbur should smash Pike and Longer the week after so we do really need to play a specialist 2nd ruck.

When we get the ball, it would be more beneficial for Cordy to run laps around the ground than what he is doing now, effectively he is getting in teammates way, getting his 2 handballs a game and looking like a big lumbering giraffe that does nothing. Boy he gives me the irrates.

Yeah agree with all of that. Teams are going to be instructed to play through Cordys man from now on because why wouldn't you? You could put JJ on him and he would manage to compete with him in the air then run off him FFS. With Redpath and Campbell you have to pay them attention otherwise they could snag a couple quite easily. Redpath was so much better and more useful to the team in round 1 than Cordy has been!

 

[Dogsman16]

Yeah agree with all of that. Teams are going to be instructed to play through Cordys man from now on because why wouldn't you? You could put JJ on him and he would manage to compete with him in the air then run off him FFS. With Cordy and Campbell you have to pay them attention otherwise they could snag a couple quite easily. Redpath was so much better and more useful to the team in round 1 than Cordy has been!

Adelaide might as well put Brodie Smith on Cordy, knowing Cordy is going to do nothing whatsoever to impact on the scoreboard, whether that be to score a goal or actually contribute to one, easy pickings for Smith to run off cordy and provide huge damage on the rebound. Hartigan probably goes to Stringer and then we are effectively playing 5 on 6 in the forward line.

 

[TedDougChris]

Boyd rested, Cordy named at full forward with no tall support around him. Oh, and Talia out for somebody short.

Now you're getting into the spirit.....

 

[Cudi]

Larkins said bont is out another week

Where did you hear this???

Lowe pretty much said he'll play

Marcus Bontempelli and Matthew Boyd were both late withdrawals ahead of the round three match, but both players are expected to return for round four.

“Marcus still had some awareness on the game day, in terms of some calf tightness that we didn’t want to risk,” said Lowe.

“Our plan is to prepare him to play this week and certainly he’s come in today and he’s looking good.

“We’ll make sure we work through the training he’s required to do and the boxes he’s got to tick, with a view to him playing this weekend.”

 

[TimlinOfficial]

Larkins said bont is out another week

When/Where?

 

[Mutt]

Michael Talia said after the game that Ayce Cordy did really well playing an unfamiliar role. Anyone have any thoughts on what this role was and why he performed it well (my guess for what it's worth is he was asked to play a negating role on Ben McEvoy for a good part of the game.)

 

[Dav1d]

Michael Talia said after the game that Ayce Cordy did really well playing an unfamiliar role. Anyone have any thoughts on what this role was and why he performed it well (my guess for what it's worth is he was asked to play a negating role on Ben McEvoy for a good part of the game.)

Yeah, I barely noticed McEvoy out there
ruck tagging?

 

[Doggies_13]

Michael Talia said after the game that Ayce Cordy did really well playing an unfamiliar role. Anyone have any thoughts on what this role was and why he performed it well (my guess for what it's worth is he was asked to play a negating role on Ben McEvoy for a good part of the game.)

Played backline as a tall defender after the Morris injury was on Gunston and Roughead at times would guarantee that's what talks meant as early in the game was just typical ruck forward game

 

[Dogsman16]

Michael Talia said after the game that Ayce Cordy did really well playing an unfamiliar role. Anyone have any thoughts on what this role was and why he performed it well (my guess for what it's worth is he was asked to play a negating role on Ben McEvoy for a good part of the game.)

Don't think Tals refered to it as Cordy playing well (from what I can recollect of Talia's interview after the game), more think he commended a couple of players such as Cordy who had to play in unfamiliar positions. Cordy was on roughead for a while and Roughead got so much space.

2 goals Cordy was 5 metres behind Gunston and Roughead and one Roughead had 50 metres of space all in the 4th quarter.

 

[Mutt]

Yeah, I barely noticed McEvoy out there
ruck tagging?

McEvoy has been seriously good for Hawthorn - until Sunday.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Michael Talia said after the game that Ayce Cordy did really well playing an unfamiliar role. Anyone have any thoughts on what this role was and why he performed it well (my guess for what it's worth is he was asked to play a negating role on Ben McEvoy for a good part of the game.)

At risk of being lynched here, I thought Cordy was very good defensively all day. He kept McEvoy out of dangerous positions, stopped him from drawing the ball, and ensured that he didn't contest marking contests around the ground as he usually does.

Cordy also went into defence later on and performed OK considering he's rarely played down there.

 

[fronkalicious]

I don't know why teams are happy to throw their forward structure out by playing key forwards as second ruckman, but seemingly won't entertain throwing a key defender in as relief ruck and making do down back.

I'm locking roughie in as our full-back for the next 5/6 years, but why can't he play on the ball for 5 mins a quarter?? He's a great contested mark and moves well. Morris/hamling and wood can all play tall for small periods. Would give us more run from the back at times as well.

Surely worth a try this year at some point.

 

[Dogsman16]

I don't know why teams are happy to throw their forward structure out by playing key forwards as second ruckman, but seemingly won't entertain throwing a key defender in as relief ruck and making do down back.

I'm locking roughie in as our full-back for the next 5/6 years, but why can't he play on the ball for 5 mins a quarter?? He's a great contested mark and moves well. Morris/hamling and wood can all play tall for small periods. Would give us more run from the back at times as well.

Surely worth a try this year at some point.

Not sure why this hasn't been tried at this stage. For the next 8 weeks we will have Talia and Hamling who are both 194cm and can take the talls. Roughead should follow Jenkins, Tippett and Bruce inside defensive 50 and into the ruck for the ongoing future and we still have tall coverage.

 

[JTCWBFC]

I don't know why teams are happy to throw their forward structure out by playing key forwards as second ruckman, but seemingly won't entertain throwing a key defender in as relief ruck and making do down back.

I'm locking roughie in as our full-back for the next 5/6 years, but why can't he play on the ball for 5 mins a quarter?? He's a great contested mark and moves well. Morris/hamling and wood can all play tall for small periods. Would give us more run from the back at times as well.

Surely worth a try this year at some point.

Agree with this Fronk but would like to see Fletch in the team as well so he can float back and forward as required.

This would give us the flexibility to play Roughead in the ruck for 5mins a quarter, while not compromising our defensive structure. He also gives us a 2nd tall up forward when Minson is in the Ruck.

 

[TedDougChris]

Agree with this Fronk but would like to see Fletch in the team as well so he can float back and forward as required.

This would give us the flexibility to play Roughead in the ruck for 5mins a quarter, while not compromising our defensive structure. He also gives us a 2nd tall up forward when Minson is in the Ruck.

I said this in the bestest 22 thread....

 

[fronkalicious]

Beveridges chance to play trailblazer here. He should go for it.

 

[Hrovat24]

If Cordy plays back over Hamling this week , I'll never post here again

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I don't know why teams are happy to throw their forward structure out by playing key forwards as second ruckman, but seemingly won't entertain throwing a key defender in as relief ruck and making do down back.

I'm locking roughie in as our full-back for the next 5/6 years, but why can't he play on the ball for 5 mins a quarter?? He's a great contested mark and moves well. Morris/hamling and wood can all play tall for small periods. Would give us more run from the back at times as well.

Surely worth a try this year at some point.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if this is the long term plan. We're clearly targeting big guys who can swing back and forward (efforts to bring across Henderson, Carlisle, Lonergan...); it would make a lot of sense for us to swing a forward back and push Roughead into the ruck. Particularly if our next #1 ruckman is somewhat competent in the forward line. Would make for an interesting dynamic; something like:
Lineup 1:
FB: - Roughead Hamling
HB: - Talia -
-
HF: - Henderson -
FF: Crameri Boyd -
-
R: Campbell - -

Lineup 2:
FB: - Talia Hamling
HB: - Henderson -
-
HF: - Boyd -
FF: Crameri Campbell -
-
R: Roughead - -

 

[goodcop badcop]

I don't know why teams are happy to throw their forward structure out by playing key forwards as second ruckman, but seemingly won't entertain throwing a key defender in as relief ruck and making do down back.

I'm locking roughie in as our full-back for the next 5/6 years, but why can't he play on the ball for 5 mins a quarter?? He's a great contested mark and moves well. Morris/hamling and wood can all play tall for small periods. Would give us more run from the back at times as well.

Surely worth a try this year at some point.

I've been saying that for years. Roughead's best position is in the ruck IMO (he's a good defender as well), I don't really understand why we can't at least give him a run for 5 minutes as you suggested. Webb is also pretty good in the air and could play tall in the future, Luke Hodge style.

 

[JTCWBFC]

I said this in the bestest 22 thread....

Haven't read that thread but good to see we're on the same wavelength


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yebiga]

For a long time we all thought j grant was a tall forward but we now realize he is a wingman

Similar ace Cordy is not a ruck forward but a mid field tagger

This week we have him in a run with role on dangerfield!
Imagine the surprise on dangers face

He could be a dangerous third man up in the ball ups around the ground and thereby negate dangers centre clearances

If danger goes forward Cordy will blanket him like he did Mcevoy

And on the rebound we play thru cords height and keep saner accountable
It's creative its ballsy - it's genius

 

[yebiga]

Just heard ace Cordy is running a course this semester at the Australian sports institute - titled "how to make friend and influence the list manager"