Preview Changes vs Tigers (Round 4)

[doggies ftw]

Did you happen to notice where Tim was during those F50 stoppages? He was set up about a kick away, ready to intercept the dump kicks out of F50. It worked beautifully.

We don't need to win those F50 stoppages if we are winning the ball back anyway. Its certainly not worth bringing in a spud tall to compete in those ruck contests.

Yeah and Tim can still set up a kick behind the play with a genuine ruckman taking the chop out. Yes things were great in the one good game of footy we’ve played so far this year and we won the ball back anyway but that doesn’t mean they will be as smooth sailing every week I mean they definitely weren’t in the other two games we got ****ing r*ped in. Why give up forward 50 stoppages one of the easiest methods at locking the ball inside your front half?

Tim has been a great ruck yes we all agree on this, we were still very very close to 0 & 3 so I hardly think our structure is without fault and can’t be improved. Tim still hasn’t been amazing in the centre anyway, what’s wrong with lessening his load in the areas of his game that aren’t his strength and leaving him to excel in his strengths for longer. He’ll be cooked by round 10 at this rate.

Let’s be honest Hickey only played a half of footy too, I’m glad Tim’s going well but good to see winning one game of footy his paper over all our cracks as expected. Why try and improve

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Can’t wait for Darcy to come along.

Ruck: English

Fwd: Naughts, Marra, Darcy (2nd ruck).

This could be a 7+ year dominant KP set up.

Realistically, how long till we see Darcy being able to play that role? IMO I think with a bit of weight gain, it could be within 2 years. He’s already shown he can play multiple roles, take a big mark and has great fwd nouse.

If it is 2 years, the other above players are still relatively young, meaning we’ve got a bloody good 10 years ahead regarding key position players.

Two years from now...
English 26
Naughts 24
Marra 22
Darcy 20

Bont still only 28 by that stage.

Good times ahead at WO!!

 

[Dog 36]

Yeah and Tim can still set up a kick behind the play with a genuine ruckman taking the chop out. Yes things were great in the one good game of footy we’ve played so far this year and we won the ball back anyway but that doesn’t mean they will be as smooth sailing every week I mean they definitely weren’t in the other two games we got ******* r*ped in. Why give up forward 50 stoppages one of the easiest methods at locking the ball inside your front half?

Tim has been a great ruck yes we all agree on this, we were still very very close to 0 & 3 so I hardly think our structure is without fault and can’t be improved. Tim still hasn’t been amazing in the centre anyway, what’s wrong with lessening his load in the areas of his game that aren’t his strength and leaving him to excel in his strengths for longer. He’ll be cooked by round 10 at this rate.

Let’s be honest Hickey only played a half of footy too, I’m glad Tim’s going well but good to see winning one game of footy his paper over all our cracks as expected. Why try and improve

A 2nd Ruck (Martin/Sweet) solves more problems than it creates for the team, will make Tim a better ruck and more dangerous and allow other players to play their position better

No Brainer IMO

 

[weltschmerz]

Can’t wait for Darcy to come along.

Ruck: English

Fwd: Naughts, Marra, Darcy (2nd ruck).

This could be a 7+ year dominant KP set up.

Realistically, how long till we see Darcy being able to play that role? IMO I think with a bit of weight gain, it could be within 2 years. He’s already shown he can play multiple roles, take a big mark and has great fwd nouse.

If it is 2 years, the other above players are still relatively young, meaning we’ve got a bloody good 10 years ahead regarding key position players.

Two years from now...
English 26
Naughts 24
Marra 22
Darcy 20

Bont still only 28 by that stage.

Good times ahead at WO!!

I expect Darcy will play as a defender. Naughton and JUH up forward flanked by Weightman and McNeil, Darcy, an ever-improving Gardner, and whoever works out from Khamis/Raak/Cleary/Parker up the back.

 

[ScottyDogg]

90% of the goals you are using as your proof are from 2 seasons ago.

His football since then has been ordinary (those are the facts). Hence not being best 22 in that time and his game last Thursday being the justification for him being out of the side.

As I said, wait till his form in any side warrants pressure for selection before you push hard for his case. Otherwise it comes off as being a pretty bad judge.

Or, if you want to push your case purely because you like him, go ahead. Just don’t try and tell us water isn’t wet and the sun isn’t hot.

One season ago. We are in round 3.

He was 2nd best on ground in week 1 of the VFL season (I watched the whole thing) and then elevated to the medi sub. Meaning the club believe he is the next best player to go into the 22. It appears those are the facts from the club. Not my opinion.

My opinion is that I watched the entire game from level 3 and I thought he was a great addition to our forward mix. You can disagree with that opinion but the stats and clubs decision to elevate him are real.

If the club drops him this week then that will tell me that I am missing something on this one. Will be interesting on Thursday.

 

[Foxman98]

One season ago. We are in round 3.

He was 2nd best on ground in week 1 of the VFL season (I watched the whole thing) and then elevated to the medi sub. Meaning the club believe he is the next best player to go into the 22. It appears those are the facts from the club. Not my opinion.

My opinion is that I watched the entire game from level 3 and I thought he was a great addition to our forward mix. You can disagree with that opinion but the stats and clubs decision to elevate him are real.

If the club drops him this week then that will tell me that I am missing something on this one. Will be interesting on Thursday.

He was dreadful. He offers little to no pressure and hardly got near the ball. If Naughton doesn't drop a sitter he has 5 touches no goals no tackles. He's a lovely guy we all want him to do well but he is that far past it its not funny. He is in the same boat as Hannan doesn't take enough marks or tackle enough or get the ball enough to justify their spot.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

I expect Darcy will play as a defender. Naughton and JUH up forward flanked by Weightman and McNeil, Darcy, an ever-improving Gardner, and whoever works out from Khamis/Raak/Cleary/Parker up the back.

+1

From all reports Darcy is going to be defender / ruck

 

[Charlie Bucket]

One season ago. We are in round 3.

He was 2nd best on ground in week 1 of the VFL season (I watched the whole thing) and then elevated to the medi sub. Meaning the club believe he is the next best player to go into the 22. It appears those are the facts from the club. Not my opinion.

My opinion is that I watched the entire game from level 3 and I thought he was a great addition to our forward mix. You can disagree with that opinion but the stats and clubs decision to elevate him are real.

If the club drops him this week then that will tell me that I am missing something on this one. Will be interesting on Thursday.

You deadset live on another planet SD lol.
Or at the very least, have terribly low expectations from the players you support.

No argument from me re his selection for Thursday’s game. If he’s been good in the VFL, give him a crack. Unfortunately he couldn’t bring that form to the 1’s.

If he’d actually played ok, I’d be all over giving him another chance. Go back and read my posting history, I give the players more chances than just about anybody else in here. I’m all about seeing the upside and cutting a bit of slack.

Unfortunately, it just goes to show how bad he was on Thursday night. He was really bad.

But, again, if he starts playing ok footy, good on him. He’ll deserve to get another look and I’ll cheer him on. He just needs to serve up a lot more than what we saw on Thursday night. Because it was pretty horrendous. Particularly from a 10 year player that has two goal kicking awards to his name.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

+1

From all reports Darcy is going to be defender / ruck

Is this coming from the club? There’s not been many, if any Defender Rucks in the comp that I can remember. You just don’t run defenders through the ruck too often as it’s hard work running with a fwd for most of the game.

 

[Del165892]

Yeah and Tim can still set up a kick behind the play with a genuine ruckman taking the chop out. Yes things were great in the one good game of footy we’ve played so far this year and we won the ball back anyway but that doesn’t mean they will be as smooth sailing every week I mean they definitely weren’t in the other two games we got ******* r*ped in. Why give up forward 50 stoppages one of the easiest methods at locking the ball inside your front half?

Tim has been a great ruck yes we all agree on this, we were still very very close to 0 & 3 so I hardly think our structure is without fault and can’t be improved. Tim still hasn’t been amazing in the centre anyway, what’s wrong with lessening his load in the areas of his game that aren’t his strength and leaving him to excel in his strengths for longer. He’ll be cooked by round 10 at this rate.

Let’s be honest Hickey only played a half of footy too, I’m glad Tim’s going well but good to see winning one game of footy his paper over all our cracks as expected. Why try and improve

You're not "giving up" stoppages by having Hannan ruck. We still win roughly half of those F50 stoppages when someone like Hannan rucks. Someone like Martin taking those ruck contests will improve this by at most a few percentage points. It's really not worth it. If we sent Naughton into those ruck contests he would win more than he loses, but that doesn't translate into stoppage wins given how low the correlation is between hitouts and clearances.

Just to put things into perspective, from a numbers point of view, a Hitout to Advantage (which are rare), has an expected value of 0.11 clearances.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I expect Darcy will play as a defender. Naughton and JUH up forward flanked by Weightman and McNeil, Darcy, an ever-improving Gardner, and whoever works out from Khamis/Raak/Cleary/Parker up the back.

Sam is a perfect FWD/Ruck candidate in size and ability so would be surprised if he comes in as a defender.

Having said that, it’s probably exactly what Bev would do.

 

[whyBulldogs]

If we were to bring in Stef Martin he would be playing mostly forward anyway. Tim would still be taking the same amount of ruck contests. It makes no difference to Tim who takes the ruck when he's resting. Tim wants to be the primary ruck this year and so far he's doing a great job at it. He has been the best performed ruck in the comp so far depending on how you choose to weight the importance of hitouts.

Mostly agreed. + the 2nd ruck should be capable to play at least 30% ruck/70% elsewhere in current Bevo system, both Stef and Sweet are forward liability. Our stock is bare for this position. Hannan versatility becomes ultimate precious in Bevo's eyes. Whoelse? Darcy not ready, Brucey ACL recovery, Scache.... , TOB-looks rusty in VFL-need more gametime-looking forward to his debut

 

[Golden_6]

Is this coming from the club? There’s not been many, if any Defender Rucks in the comp that I can remember. You just don’t run defenders through the ruck too often as it’s hard work running with a fwd for most of the game.

I’ve always wondered this but what if they just followed their opponent into the ruck? I mean the majority of the clubs run with a second ruck/big KPF so it’s not like they would be doing additional running compared to their opponent.

For example say we were playing Melbourne, the defender/ruck would just play on Jackson and follow him into the ruck.

 

[Testekill]

Sam is a perfect FWD/Ruck candidate in size and ability so would be surprised if he comes in as a defender.

Having said that, it’s probably exactly what Bev would do.

All of his wraps as a junior is that he's a much more natural defender.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Is this coming from the club? There’s not been many, if any Defender Rucks in the comp that I can remember. You just don’t run defenders through the ruck too often as it’s hard work running with a fwd for most of the game.

Feel free to jump on the club website and see what they have him listed under.

But yes, I have spoken to people at the club who have told me word for word that he'll be training as a defender, and tried in the ruck.
Wouldn't surprise me if he ends up forward after Bruce retires but I have a sneeking feeling it's gonna be another Naughton situations, back or forward?

 

[BEaston]

If we were to bring in Stef Martin he would be playing mostly forward anyway. Tim would still be taking the same amount of ruck contests. It makes no difference to Tim who takes the ruck when he's resting. Tim wants to be the primary ruck this year and so far he's doing a great job at it. He has been the best performed ruck in the comp so far depending on how you choose to weight the importance of hitouts.

It's a good point. Whether it's Martin/Sweet or Hannan/Cordy taking 2nd ruck duties, it makes no difference to Timmy's rest (which is an argument often put forward for a 2nd ruck)

 

[Munnez]

Can’t wait for Darcy to come along.

Ruck: English

Fwd: Naughts, Marra, Darcy (2nd ruck).

This could be a 7+ year dominant KP set up.

Realistically, how long till we see Darcy being able to play that role? IMO I think with a bit of weight gain, it could be within 2 years. He’s already shown he can play multiple roles, take a big mark and has great fwd nouse.

If it is 2 years, the other above players are still relatively young, meaning we’ve got a bloody good 10 years ahead regarding key position players.

Two years from now...
English 26
Naughts 24
Marra 22
Darcy 20

Bont still only 28 by that stage.

Good times ahead at WO!!

Maybe Darcy slots in as a KPD and 2nd Ruck and fills that gap in our list

 

[Struggle]

All of his wraps as a junior is that he's a much more natural defender.

Just physically it will be much harder for him to make it in the backline. At that size, going with a forward on a lead and changing directions will be real challenging unless he's just floating in front of packs. Not many KPDs at 205cm

Much easier in the forward line where you can sit under a high ball delivered to your advantage

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I’ve always wondered this but what if they just followed their opponent into the ruck? I mean the majority of the clubs run with a second ruck/big KPF so it’s not like they would be doing additional running compared to their opponent.

For example say we were playing Melbourne, the defender/ruck would just play on Jackson and follow him into the ruck.

Maybe Darcy slots in as a KPD and 2nd Ruck and fills that gap in our list

Probably not as easy as following your opponent in to the ruck.

If he’s one of our better key backs, he’ll play on the better key fwds, not the resting ruck.

It’s not a standard role in football, the defender/ruck.

You can still have an impact up fwd even if only running at 60-80% which rucks would be doing once having a run up the ground.
Playing a Gardiner type role and then having to go and ruck for 4-5 minutes once or twice a quarter would require more than Andrew Gaff type fitness levels.

 

[ringa5]

Can’t wait for Darcy to come along.

Ruck: English

Fwd: Naughts, Marra, Darcy (2nd ruck).

This could be a 7+ year dominant KP set up.

Realistically, how long till we see Darcy being able to play that role? IMO I think with a bit of weight gain, it could be within 2 years. He’s already shown he can play multiple roles, take a big mark and has great fwd nouse.

If it is 2 years, the other above players are still relatively young, meaning we’ve got a bloody good 10 years ahead regarding key position players.

Two years from now...
English 26
Naughts 24
Marra 22
Darcy 20

Bont still only 28 by that stage.

Good times ahead at WO!!

Just hope when his foot is right Bevo just plays him.Unlike English and Marra who had to wait for 2nd seasons .As what your seeing with English is from perseverance.He has become a very important player .Early years may have caused some early pain.But Trengrove was never going to get us to a GF.Young talent has to be nurtured

 

[bobs head soup]

Just hope when his foot is right Bevo just plays him.Unlike English and Marra who had to wait for 2nd seasons .As what your seeing with English is from perseverance.He has become a very important player .Early years may have caused some early pain.But Trengrove was never going to get us to a GF.Young talent has to be nurtured

Not so sure. Darcy is very thin and has played minimal footy in 2 years. Throwing him into the big league at this stage may well do more harm than good, physically and mentally.

A better way to nurture a lot of young talent is to give it time in the lower grades to build confidence and work on craft.

 

[weltschmerz]

Weightman has attributed his second year breakout to a solid period of time developing in the VFL.

 

[Chicago1]

This is one game that we must win. We absolutely MUST!

 

[Some Idiot]

Buku Khamis really struggled to run out the game he played last year. If his endurance is in check I wouldn't mind if he got another crack. Crozier is more likely to be recalled though imo.

 

[ScottyDogg]

Any thoughts as to why we haven’t released a medical update?

Smells fishy to me