Preview Changes vs WCE

[rabidcrow]

Are you serious?

Doedee came back in for his leadership in the backline...the fact Josh was subbed off with a full body cramp and the Darwin travel and humidity likely fed into that as well.

Apparently this didn’t happen and the coaches just don’t like him. He is not part of the set up


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[CrowBloke]

The table below show that ROB's HIT OUTS to advantage are 27.9% of his hit outs. Only Darcy, Goldstein and Witts are better.


View attachment 1705190

Serious question: what does "... to advantage" mean?
To one of our mids, or in their "general" direction?

 

[Eddie Murphy]

Average CBA attendance the last 3 weeks

Keays - 12
Sloane - 10
Pedlar - 6
Rachele - 3
Soligo - 2

Can’t say I’m loving our younger players being slowly phased out of the midfield. If it’s a matter of fitness I’d rather rest and bring them back into midfield than leave them in graveyard positions.

 

[MsTopG]

Average CBA attendance the last 3 weeks

Keays - 12
Sloane - 10
Pedlar - 6
Rachele - 3
Soligo - 2

Can’t say I’m loving our younger players being slowly phased out of the midfield. If it’s a matter of fitness I’d rather rest and bring them back into midfield than leave them in graveyard positions.

It was always going to happen. The likely result is no finals and a wasted year of not getting midfield minutes into our young players who are our future midfield. End of year we will probably bring in another non-mid. They are so dumb.

 

[moogerfooger]

Average CBA attendance the last 3 weeks

Keays - 12
Sloane - 10
Pedlar - 6
Rachele - 3
Soligo - 2

Can’t say I’m loving our younger players being slowly phased out of the midfield. If it’s a matter of fitness I’d rather rest and bring them back into midfield than leave them in graveyard positions.

The mix has changed since they started using Keays in a tagging role. He's done well to nullify his targets but you have to wonder if it's ultimately worth it.

 

[George CantStandYa]

Average CBA attendance the last 3 weeks

Keays - 12
Sloane - 10
Pedlar - 6
Rachele - 3
Soligo - 2

Can’t say I’m loving our younger players being slowly phased out of the midfield. If it’s a matter of fitness I’d rather rest and bring them back into midfield than leave them in graveyard positions.

Have to get Sloane out. We started the year with Sloane out the middle because we needed to develop our midfield, some poor midfield showings and they went to Sloane who did well. Problem is he’s still in there, his form has waned and we are back to having poor midfield showings so what’s the point?

 

[AFC979810]

It surely has to be fitness related with regards to Rachele and Soligo.

Nicks cannot be that incompetent that he would reduce their midfield time to bring in Sloane and Keys - particularly considering how well they were performing earlier this year.

Its a terrible spot. Keays and Sloane both can play midfield and give the coaching group a lot more flexibility so I understand the logic. Berry, Hately and Shoenberg are all one trick ponies and can't really do much apart from take away midfield minutes.

For our long term future - we should absolutely be getting Sloane out though. Bring in Schoenberg and give him time with Laird/Dawson in the middle.

 

[NSolis]

Realistically, our 'core' midfield most weeks is going to be Laird, Dawson and Keays if they stick with Keays in a tagging role. So it's no surprise to see Keays have high numbers the last two weeks. Against Geelong, St. Kilda and the Bulldogs where he wasn't tagging anyone he didn't attend many centre bounces.

Sloane is obviously the odd man out, whether it's due to the tank of other candidates or something else. Post-bye I'd like the extra rotations to go to Pedlar and Rachele as much as possible as those are the guys I think have a future in the midfield, and less to Sloane. Sloane as the sub and maybe attending centre bounces in the 4th quarter would be ideal.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

The mix has changed since they started using Keays in a tagging role. He's done well to nullify his targets but you have to wonder if it's ultimately worth it.

Keays isn’t the problem , Sloane playing in there that much is

Keays taking their best mids and beating them helps the young guys around him , but they need to be in there more instead of Sloane

If they’re too tired , Schoenberg needs to play

Good to see Pedlar slowly getting more time

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We're edging back towards the midfield that helped deliver us bottom four finishes. Crouch in would complete the transition regression

Keays was good on the weekend but there's a cost to having him there. Pedlar gets less for instance.

 

[croweater 41]

Realistically, our 'core' midfield most weeks is going to be Laird, Dawson and Keays if they stick with Keays in a tagging role. So it's no surprise to see Keays have high numbers the last two weeks. Against Geelong, St. Kilda and the Bulldogs where he wasn't tagging anyone he didn't attend many centre bounces.

Sloane is obviously the odd man out, whether it's due to the tank of other candidates or something else. Post-bye I'd like the extra rotations to go to Pedlar and Rachele as much as possible as those are the guys I think have a future in the midfield, and less to Sloane. Sloane as the sub and maybe attending centre bounces in the 4th quarter would be ideal.

Keays was still used as a tagger against Geelong. Just happened to be Stewart who has never played a midfield minute in his life* Keays was used as a defensive forward much like Saad against Carlton and Daicos against Collingwood when he didn't venture to the midfield. Unsure if he had a role against Dogs and St Kilda but would assume that he had one of their half backs in Dale (because no one went near Bailey Smith that day) or Sinclair.

Keays CBA's will be purely dependent on his match up for the week. I'm not sure he needs to go to anyone in particular this week so could be used as the high half forward role and get some Pedlar/Rankine/Rachelle time through there.


*yes that may be very wrong but not the point of this.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If it's match up based then Keays won't play midfield this week.

However I think the decisive factor is that Keays' output was drying up at half forward so we did what was best for him; shunting him back into his personally preferred role.

The impact this had on our younger mids is not a consideration for us.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

If it's match up based then Keays won't play midfield this week.

However I think the decisive factor is that Keays' output was drying up at half forward so we did what was best for him; shunting him back into his personally preferred role.

The impact this had on our younger mids is not a consideration for us.

i don't think keays was drying out at half forward, his spot was never in jeapardy. He is most value when he's given tasks which has been proven once again this season re saad daicos neale rowell

sloane is definitely taking younger mids game time to the teams detriment , that is the issue

keays is 26 yo , not 33 like sloane, he's going to be around a while if he keeps playing well

 

[NSolis]

Keays was still used as a tagger against Geelong. Just happened to be Stewart who has never played a midfield minute in his life* Keays was used as a defensive forward much like Saad against Carlton and Daicos against Collingwood when he didn't venture to the midfield. Unsure if he had a role against Dogs and St Kilda but would assume that he had one of their half backs in Dale (because no one went near Bailey Smith that day) or Sinclair.

Keays CBA's will be purely dependent on his match up for the week. I'm not sure he needs to go to anyone in particular this week so could be used as the high half forward role and get some Pedlar/Rankine/Rachelle time through there.


*yes that may be very wrong but not the point of this.

Sure - probably more accurate to say tagging a midfielder. Though he did attend 63% against the Pies, which is exactly the same CBA % as Daicos that week.

 

[MsTopG]

If it's match up based then Keays won't play midfield this week.

However I think the decisive factor is that Keays' output was drying up at half forward so we did what was best for him; shunting him back into his personally preferred role.

The impact this had on our younger mids is not a consideration for us.

There was a reason Nicks moved Keays out of the middle. By putting him back there It's like Nicks is trying to ask the same question all over again when he already has the answer. If he's not performing at half forward drop him to the Sanfl like every other player that's not performing. Don't put him into a key position we know he will fail at. I can't name any other club that Ben Keays would be in the midfield. Same with Sloane. What other club would have him in the midfield? It's an indictment on our recruiting and or selection if the best choice in the middle is Keays and a cooked Sloane.

Why isn't Jones (who we drafted as a mid) being given some rotations in there? Whats happened to the midfield time for Soligo, Pedlar, Rachele? What's happened to the development of Schoenberg and Berry? What other players other than max has Nicks integrated into the team this year? What's going on with Cook, Nankervis? Are we ever gonna see them in the team or are they destined to be SANFL players.

 

[MRB37]

Serious question: what does "... to advantage" mean?
To one of our mids, or in their "general" direction?

Defined by Champion Data as "a hitout that reaches an intended teammate" so basically it's up to the stat recorder to determine as it's open to interpretation.

 

[NSolis]

There was a reason Nicks moved Keays out of the middle. By putting him back there It's like Nicks is trying to ask the same question all over again when he already has the answer. If he's not performing at half forward drop him to the Sanfl like every other player that's not performing. Don't put him into a key position we know he will fail at. I can't name any other club that Ben Keays would be in the midfield. Same with Sloane. What other club would have him in the midfield? It's an indictment on our recruiting and or selection if the best choice in the middle is Keays and a cooked Sloane.

He's playing in the midfield when he is running with an opposition mid, which is a role he is performing very well at. He's not 'failing', he hasn't just been 'put back there' because he was 'not performing at half forward', he's playing a different role which sometimes has him running through the midfield. As discussed earlier in the thread, he's only had 3 games this year where he attended the majority of centre bounces and they were all games where he was tagging a midfielder. Given that he was our best on the weekend and one of our better players the week before this really doesn't seem like a valid criticism at all. I suspect he'll be given a midfield tagging role most weeks now given that it's going pretty well.

 

[MsTopG]

He's playing in the midfield when he is running with an opposition mid, which is a role he is performing very well at. He's not 'failing', he hasn't just been 'put back there' because he was 'not performing at half forward', he's playing a different role which sometimes has him running through the midfield. As discussed earlier in the thread, he's only had 3 games this year where he attended the majority of centre bounces and they were all games where he was tagging a midfielder. Given that he was our best on the weekend and one of our better players the week before this really doesn't seem like a valid criticism at all. I suspect he'll be given a midfield tagging role most weeks now given that it's going pretty well.

Not many other teams run with a designated tagger. Wouldn't it be better for our mids to win the ball and end up being the ones that are tagged? Having a defensive player in your midfield basically means you are running a midfield one short imo. It's just seems a bit defeatist to setup on the presumption you aren't going to win the ball. Instead of running Keays in there we should be looking at how ROB can do his job better and improve his connection with our mids. That seems to be the major problem along with how the mids position themself at times. If ROB is the problem we need to be looking for a better ruck.

 

[spenze]

We should isolate him deep if it’s dry this week and try and get him in 1 on 1s

Would they call it Thilthorpes Thifty

 

[MRB37]

The problem with Sloane in the middle is it almost creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. We put him in the middle cause we're getting beaten through the clearances, so decide we need another mature body to win the ball. Except he's absolutely lost any speed agility in his legs (and let's be honest, he was never blessed there either), so if he doesn't win the ball and his opponent does he's next to useless to stop them cause he can't change directions or get any explosiveness out to stop his opponent, so they win easy ball and the problem continues.

Basically they're just gambling that Sloane will win the ball because he certainly can't stop the opposition the other way. The one asset he has left is gut running, which means he shouldn't be at the stoppages, but on a wing or something like that like he was at the start of the year.

We should isolate him deep if it’s dry this week and try and get him in 1 on 1s

He’s shown he can get on a roll , been unlucky with slippery conditions in a few Games

His best marking is when he's been able to get a run going and he has great timing on when to launch for it. Doesn't necessarily need to be isolated 1-1, just needs to be given the ball in enough space that he can get some momentum going before he launches at it.

 

[NSolis]

Not many other teams run with a designated tagger. Wouldn't it be better for our mids to win the ball and end up being the ones that are tagged? Having a defensive player in your midfield basically means you are running a midfield one short imo. It's just seems a bit defeatist to setup on the presumption you aren't going to win the ball.

That's fair and yeah, most teams don't use a tagger. But it's not a purely defensive role, Keays got 28 and 25 the last two weeks plus some goals. And he has a pretty unusual skillset in that his running capacity means he can push back the other way and try and force the player he is running with to defend. He's done that pretty well against Saad and Rowell - less effective on other occasions.

I also remember the coaching group being criticised on here as a bunch of hopeless morons for not using a tagger in the past, but that's just part of the business I guess.

 

[MsTopG]

That's fair and yeah, most teams don't use a tagger. But it's not a purely defensive role, Keays got 28 and 25 the last two weeks plus some goals. And he has a pretty unusual skillset in that his running capacity means he can push back the other way and try and force the player he is running with to defend. He's done that pretty well against Saad and Rowell - less effective on other occasions.

I also remember the coaching group being criticised on here as a bunch of hopeless morons for not using a tagger in the past, but that's just part of the business I guess.

It seems like we may need to look at our midfield coach and whether they are the best available. Also some of our young mids have stalled such as Berry , Schoenberg. Is that development, coaching or poor drafting. We have had ample picks over the last 5 years for an elite midfield.

 

[MRB37]

It seems like we may need to look at our midfield coach and whether they are the best available. Also some of our young mids have stalled such as Berry , Schoenberg. Is that development, coaching or poor drafting. We have had ample picks over the last 5 years for an elite midfield.

We've drafted plenty of midfielders, we haven't really used any of our top picks on midfielders though. Rachele may turn into a mid, but he was drafted as a forward, so basically we've got Pedlar at 11, Schoenberg at 24, Berry at 28, Soligo at 36, Ronin O'Connor at 42 (and since delisted), Dowling (43) and Bond (50), Hately in the PSD and Keays from the rookie draft. Jones at 9 hasn't turned into a midfielder, McHenry at 16 is still just a pressure guy, we've got a workman like midfield, which is how we built our last one, but the game has changed a bit since those days. It's probably not a surprise Pedlar is starting to look like the best of the bunch now his body is right.

Since the end of 2018 we've spent our top picks on Thiltorpe (2), Rankine (traded pick 5), McAsey (6) and Rachele (6). Outside of the Dawson trade, which we got for a steal in the end, we've been fine in adding depth to our midfield, but we haven't added much elite talent there yet because we haven't invested our most valuable capital there yet.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

i don't think keays was drying out at half forward, his spot was never in jeapardy. He is most value when he's given tasks which has been proven once again this season re saad daicos neale rowell

sloane is definitely taking younger mids game time to the teams detriment , that is the issue

keays is 26 yo , not 33 like sloane, he's going to be around a while if he keeps playing well

We just need to get more midfield minutes into our younger players... rather than the current trend of reducing their minutes... which is also not helping our performances.

Keays - no issue with him being used in a run with role against a gun midfielder, but where he is not & also not tagging q dangerous half back, he should be about 50/50 midfield/forward.

Sloane needs to be managed more, including as sub. Sloane should revert to mainly a wing/half forward role (depending on Keay) & no issue pinch hitting in the midfield late in games.

Dawson & Laird should be our experienced main stays in the midfield.

We must get decent midfield minutes into Pedlar, Rachele, Soligo & Jones. Not all 4 need be for the same game, but we should be looking to up these guys midfield rotations overall.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We just need to get more midfield minutes into our younger players... rather than the current trend of reducing their minutes... which is also not helping our performances.

Keays - no issue with him being used in a run with role against a gun midfielder, but where he is not & also not tagging q dangerous half back, he should be about 50/50 midfield/forward.

Sloane needs to be managed more, including as sub. Sloane should revert to mainly a wing/half forward role (depending on Keay) & no issue pinch hitting in the midfield late in games.

Dawson & Laird should be our experienced main stays in the midfield.

We must get decent midfield minutes into Pedlar, Rachele, Soligo & Jones. Not all 4 need be for the same game, but we should be looking to up these guys midfield rotations overall.

Agree with all that

Got a feeling Rachele is being in game managed and hasn’t been keeping up vs early season

Soligo as I’ve said is best used inside mid so I’d like to see him doing that 30-50%

Pedlar is being built up , we know the history with his body / fitness so it will be a slow build , he looks like potentially our best centre square clearance mid but we aren’t going to see him in there until next season

We definitely need to cut Sloane minutes in there and give opportunities to others and if the ones we have aren’t capable or need a rest then Schoenberg as next man up

Re Keays , keep finding him task orientated roles either forward or mid as it works