Preview Changes vs West Coast

[MsTopG]

I'm upset, too. I'm angry about the GU error, too, but let's go back a week, just to see where Adelaide was, and why.
Adelaide were 12th with a W/L of 10/11 and 115.77%.
That particular shitshow (of having to win the last 2 games to make the 8) was because of poor goalkicking and losing winnable games, sometimes after being 4-to-6 goals ahead. The Crows' Final-8 chances were in their own hands earlier in 2023 and they made a mess of it (bewildering team selections, player errors etc).
In his presser, Dawson nailed it in classy style. If the Crows had won more games, the loss to Sydney would be of little consequence. Dawson's a man of healthy perspective.

I'd prefer them to be devastated by the rubbish they put up against the Bulldogs in Ballarat, their capitulation to Richmond, and 5 losses by less than a goal when they had more scoring shots than their opponents.
That crappy GU error was a mistake beyond their control, which makes it feel like they were 'robbed'. But it's amplified by the results of the 21 games they had played previously.

Every one of those highly-paid players know that in the end every match is just a game of footy, and so should we. MANY games are decided by player-error and millimetres.

It's not the End of the World, as some people are painting it. It's not Life or Death.

You're upset. I'm upset, but we need to stay calm and be kinder to the poor bastard who made that mistake, who's become the most hated person currently in AFL footy, whose life will be tainted forever by the anger of people who forget that they make mistakes, too.

I think most people are pissed off with the AFL for having no failproof system in place for this type of error. Sure this goal umpire isn't up to his job and should never umpire again at afl level but the real anger is at the AFL. They knew this was coming for years and did nothing about it. They are greedy incompetent campaigners.

 

[CrowBloke]

I can answer this:

Why do people keep making this argument?

Because it makes sense .
Before the Sydney game we had to win the last 2 games to make the 8. If we lost the last game, we don't.
The only LOGICAL way that we can claim to be hard done by is to hammer WCE this week.
If we don't, we have NO way to claim that error cost us a spot in the 8.

Geelong have nothing to play for against the Bulldogs. Essendon have nothing to play for against Collingwood.

Please think back to before the Sydney game.
Did you care then about what Geelong or the Bulldogs had to play for in Round 23?
I didn't and I don't now.
The mistake has rippled sideways but the only team that's been affected that I care about is the Crows.

The point remains --- if the Crows had won even only one more game before Round 22, and win this week, they play Finals. Dawson knows this and has said as much in his presser.

There’s not an alternate universe where we beat the Swans and go into the West Coast game needing a win to make the 8 (barring the AFL suddenly deciding to replay our game against the Swans).

There was a Universe in which the Crows beat Sydney, by not getting 44 points down to them in the first place.
Why are the Crows blameless for the garbage they put up against Sydney in the first half?

Just this rubbish universe where a goal umpire behaved like a cocky twat and refused to send his blatantly wrong decision to the AFL review centre.

It was a bad decision, for sure. It's a mistake.
However, he called it as he saw it, like all Umpires do many thousands of times a Season.
The "cocky twat" thing (which is mild compared to what many others have said) is your take on his motives, with which I disagree because (unlike you and many others) I cannot read his mind so I don't know anything about his motives. By the way, yes, I know I am in a non-hating minority.

Furthermore, he didn't "refuse" anything.
Any one of the Central Umpires could have had a word to him and requested a review (but they didn't!) and they are not being vilified like he has been. The HATE directed at that Goal Umpire is way over-the-top.
Finally, and this is a serious, non-provocative, question --- have you ever made a mistake?

 

[Cyclonus]

If we lose this one the media will definitely soften on the lack of a score review. They'll say "look it wasn't that bad, they weren't making the 8 anyway."

 

[George CantStandYa]

If we lose this one the media will definitely soften on the lack of a score review. They'll say "look it wasn't that bad, they weren't making the 8 anyway."

Nah, they will say the players were flat when their chance for finals was ripped away from them

 

[bonehilda]

If we lose this one the media will definitely soften on the lack of a score review. They'll say "look it wasn't that bad, they weren't making the 8 anyway."

They might but it won’t make any sense because after our season ended like that the context and our motives going into this are complete different now

 

[Crows I Am]

If we lose this one the media will definitely soften on the lack of a score review. They'll say "look it wasn't that bad, they weren't making the 8 anyway."

They will be on to the next big story by then anyway.

 

[Corvidae]

I can answer this:

Because it makes sense .
Before the Sydney game we had to win the last 2 games to make the 8. If we lost the last game, we don't.
The only LOGICAL way that we can claim to be hard done by is to hammer WCE this week.
If we don't, we have NO way to claim that error cost us a spot in the 8.

Please think back to before the Sydney game.
Did you care then about what Geelong or the Bulldogs had to play for in Round 23?
I didn't and I don't now.
The mistake has rippled sideways but the only team that's been affected that I care about is the Crows.

The point remains --- if the Crows had won even only one more game before Round 22, and win this week, they play Finals. Dawson knows this and has said as much in his presser.

There was a Universe in which the Crows beat Sydney, by not getting 44 points down to them in the first place.
Why are the Crows blameless for the garbage they put up against Sydney in the first half?

It was a bad decision, for sure. It's a mistake.
However, he called it as he saw it, like all Umpires do many thousands of times a Season.
The "cocky twat" thing (which is mild compared to what many others have said) is your take on his motives, with which I disagree because (unlike you and many others) I cannot read his mind so I don't know anything about his motives. By the way, yes, I know I am in a non-hating minority.

Furthermore, he didn't "refuse" anything.
Any one of the Central Umpires could have had a word to him and requested a review (but they didn't!) and they are not being vilified like he has been. The HATE directed at that Goal Umpire is way over-the-top.
Finally, and this is a serious, non-provocative, question --- have you ever made a mistake?

The temporal component matters here - we first had to beat the Swans. And we second had to beat the Eagles. The error has already cost us a spot in the finals, regardless of this week’s result. The ‘you would have missed the finals anyway’ argument if we lose to the Eagles is bogus, because it assumes that the now dead-rubber nature of the game isn’t a potential factor in how this week plays out.

I don’t care about Geelong or Essendon per se, but I’d be pretty pissed if the Crows shot at the 8 was taken away from this sort of game-altering blunder.

The Crows extremely poor first half in going 44 points down has absolutely nothing to do with the goal umpire’s mistake that prevented them from going 4 points up deep into the 4th quarter. Ditto for all the other games they dropped earlier in the season. Dawson (and you) are conflating the two issues.

I didn’t call the goal umpire a ‘cocky twat’, merely implied that he behaved like one. You’re correct that I don’t and can’t possibly know his true motivation, but it’s hard to understand why he wouldn‘t have used the ARC to make sure his call was the correct one given the state of the game and the consequences for getting it wrong. I don’t condone any sort of personal threats towards him, and any frustration I have is mostly directed at the AFL for not having in place a process to prevent this type of error deciding the outcome of the game (and not being willing to explore options like replaying the game, which is seemingly something they could at least have considered).

Like everyone I’ve made plenty of mistakes and I don’t think anyone would claim otherwise. But if I made that kind of far-reaching mistake in my profession I’d likely face de-registration. Not all mistakes are equal, and it’s a pretty facile argument to suggest that they are.

 

[cleanhands]

I’m very curious as to what they do this week

 

[Samcro24]

Nah, they will say the players were flat when their chance for finals was ripped away from them

Depends on which media.

 

[mick500]

If Tex plays (and he shouldn't) - then I don't want any player having a shot on goal unless it's Tex. Make this game a farce. Players streaming into an open goal have to stop and look around for Tex. Pass it to him 1 on 4 just in case he still gets it. Who cares?

100% agree. Make it a nothing but Tex day. There's nothing else at all to be gained from playing and winning this bullshit game.

 

[BrissyCrow]

I'm upset, too. I'm angry about the GU error, too, but let's go back a week, just to see where Adelaide was, and why.
Adelaide were 12th with a W/L of 10/11 and 115.77%.
That particular shitshow (of having to win the last 2 games to make the 8) was because of poor goalkicking and losing winnable games, sometimes after being 4-to-6 goals ahead. The Crows' Final-8 chances were in their own hands earlier in 2023 and they made a mess of it (bewildering team selections, player errors etc).
In his presser, Dawson nailed it in classy style. If the Crows had won more games, the loss to Sydney would be of little consequence. Dawson's a man of healthy perspective.

I'd prefer them to be devastated by the rubbish they put up against the Bulldogs in Ballarat, their capitulation to Richmond, and 5 losses by less than a goal when they had more scoring shots than their opponents.
That crappy GU error was a mistake beyond their control, which makes it feel like they were 'robbed'. But it's amplified by the results of the 21 games they had played previously.

Every one of those highly-paid players know that in the end every match is just a game of footy, and so should we. MANY games are decided by player-error and millimetres.

It's not the End of the World, as some people are painting it. It's not Life or Death.

You're upset. I'm upset, but we need to stay calm and be kinder to the poor bastard who made that mistake, who's become the most hated person currently in AFL footy, whose life will be tainted forever by the anger of people who forget that they make mistakes, too.

I dont normally get too uptight but you explanation about how its our fault that we didnt make the 8 is absolutely full of Sh$t. How we performed during the season will be reviewed and internally we will critique our performances.

At this point on Saturday we went into that game with the possibility of still making the finals. We firstly had to beat Sydney. Reality is that we did and we would still be in the running for the eight. So despite our performance during the season it was good enough to get us into contention to play finals. Yes if we have won more game then no problems but despite our win/loss situation we still could make the 8. So forget your lame justification about how its our fault because we should have won more games.

However what I will agree about is if we had lost that game legitimately on Saturday by a point then your comment about not winning enough games would be valid.

Despite our performance during the year we were still in the position of being able to make the 8. End of story. Our performance during the year was still good enough.

We got robbed and its that simple

 

[CrowBloke]

The temporal component matters here - we first had to beat the Swans. And we second had to beat the Eagles. The error has already cost us a spot in the finals, regardless of this week’s result. The ‘you would have missed the finals anyway’ argument if we lose to the Eagles is bogus, because it assumes that the now dead-rubber nature of the game isn’t a potential factor in how this week plays out.

I don’t care about Geelong or Essendon per se, but I’d be pretty pissed if the Crows shot at the 8 was taken away from this sort of game-altering blunder.

The Crows extremely poor first half in going 44 points down has absolutely nothing to do with the goal umpire’s mistake that prevented them from going 4 points up deep into the 4th quarter. Ditto for all the other games they dropped earlier in the season. Dawson (and you) are conflating the two issues.

I didn’t call the goal umpire a ‘cocky twat’, merely implied that he behaved like one. You’re correct that I don’t and can’t possibly know his true motivation, but it’s hard to understand why he wouldn‘t have used the ARC to make sure his call was the correct one given the state of the game and the consequences for getting it wrong. I don’t condone any sort of personal threats towards him, and any frustration I have is mostly directed at the AFL for not having in place a process to prevent this type of error deciding the outcome of the game (and not being willing to explore options like replaying the game, which is seemingly something they could at least have considered).

Like everyone I’ve made plenty of mistakes and I don’t think anyone would claim otherwise. But if I made that kind of far-reaching mistake in my profession I’d likely face de-registration. Not all mistakes are equal, and it’s a pretty facile argument to suggest that they are.

Thank you for such a measured, non-abusive, well-explained and well-written reply. I mean it.
Respect .

I agree that not all mistakes are equal. I was not suggesting they are. Many assumptions have been made in enraged righteousness about the Goal Umpire's mistake, his motives, his "arrogance" and so on. I think that he thought it hit the post, called it as he saw it (without the benefit of frame-by-frame replays which have proved him wrong) and my guess is he's been trained to go with that. The blame for not reviewing the decision lies with the Field Umpires, but it looks like they agreed with it ==> no review. The AFL needs a mechanism to ensure that howlers like that are never repeated.
More below.

I dont normally get too uptight but you explanation about how its our fault that we didnt make the 8 is absolutely full of Sh$t. How we performed during the season will be reviewed and internally we will critique our performances.

At this point on Saturday we went into that game with the possibility of still making the finals. We firstly had to beat Sydney. Reality is that we did and we would still be in the running for the eight.

Nope, we didn't. See also "78 seconds left", below.

So despite our performance during the season it was good enough to get us into contention to play finals. Yes if we have won more game then no problems but despite our win/loss situation we still could make the 8. So forget your lame justification about how its our fault because we should have won more games.

However what I will agree about is if we had lost that game legitimately on Saturday by a point then your comment about not winning enough games would be valid.

Despite our performance during the year we were still in the position of being able to make the 8. End of story. Our performance during the year was still good enough.

We got robbed and its that simple.

It's not "my" justification, lame or otherwise, nor was it "my comment about not winning enough games".
I was repeating what the Club Captain said about it (but it's a position I agree with) and Dawson's thoughts and acceptance are good enough for me.
Furthermore, I accept your right to disagree, without calling your disagreement "full of Sh$t".

A few more things:
--- the first time we played Collingwood (25th June, R15) a big mistake was made onfield about the head-high hit on Dawson which drew blood, ffs. The AFL admitted later it was a mistake, but look how quickly that blew over. Maybe that was because there was no guarantee that Dawson would have goaled...?
Probably, yes. Definitely? We'll never know, which brings me to the next point:
--- on Saturday night, many people are claiming that had the goal been given, because we were pumped, playing really well, crowd behind us etc etc we would have won.
Definitely. Absolutely.
Yeah/nah.
Probably, yes. Definitely? We'll never know, because there were 78 seconds still to play. That's plenty of time for Sydney to kick a goal.
Is 78 seconds enough?
Yep. Plenty.
The ferals did it to us with 38 seconds to play in Round 8 of 2018! Motlop kicked that goal within 17 seconds of the bounce . Here's the evidence, but I suggest you don't watch it. I did and it made me feel sick all over again:


I agree that we had to beat Sydney, but the we-was-robbed mob have forgotten we also had to beat WCE, as if that was a done deal. WIN, assumed.
If the Eagles can beat the Bulldogs (who belted us easily by 45 points) AWAY, who's to say for sure that they would not have beaten us AT HOME?

 

[baldandbroke]

This is an actual sliding doors situation.

Everything changes.

Winning this game is now a negative for our draft hand… why do you think Geelong are sending everyone to surgery? Does anyone think it will impact the Cats players attack / momentum / attitude to next season?

We need to grow up as a club.

 

[PeterSalt]

This is an actual sliding doors situation.

Everything changes.

Winning this game is now a negative for our draft hand… why do you think Geelong are sending everyone to surgery? Does anyone think it will impact the Cats players attack / momentum / attitude to next season?

We need to grow up as a club.

Geelong won a premiership last year. Played off in GF in 2021. They have older, experienced list.

We have basically the exact opposite.

Growing up probably includes turning up to play this weekend

 

[Mostyn]

I dont normally get too uptight but you explanation about how its our fault that we didnt make the 8 is absolutely full of Sh$t. How we performed during the season will be reviewed and internally we will critique our performances.

At this point on Saturday we went into that game with the possibility of still making the finals. We firstly had to beat Sydney. Reality is that we did and we would still be in the running for the eight. So despite our performance during the season it was good enough to get us into contention to play finals. Yes if we have won more game then no problems but despite our win/loss situation we still could make the 8. So forget your lame justification about how its our fault because we should have won more games.

However what I will agree about is if we had lost that game legitimately on Saturday by a point then your comment about not winning enough games would be valid.

Despite our performance during the year we were still in the position of being able to make the 8. End of story. Our performance during the year was still good enough.

We got robbed and its that simple

Every club expects to lose some games.

You don't expect to have one (though, actually two) stolen from you.

 

[Crow till I die]

Every club expects to lose some games.

You don't expect to have one (though, actually two) stolen from you.

When our goals are called points, it makes it much harder to beat opponents

 

[jenny61_99]

I’m in the “I just want to flog the living daylights out of them” camp. Get Tex a dozen goals and finish 9th with a huge percentage. Do not for one second let the AFL or anyone else think “oh well, they wouldn’t have made finals anyways”. The only way to keep this story alive is to be a big fat wart on the end of the AFLs nose.

 

[Corvidae]

I’m in the “I just want to flog the living daylights out of them” camp. Get Tex a dozen goals and finish 9th with a huge percentage. Do not for one second let the AFL or anyone else think “oh well, they wouldn’t have made finals anyways”. The only way to keep this story alive is to be a big fat wart on the end of the AFLs nose.

As a supporter I’d enjoy seeing the Crows get up this weekend too. But the narrative that we ‘wouldn’t have made the finals anyway’ if we lose is clearly false. The loss that wasn’t against the Swans definitively ruled us out of contention heading into the final round, rendering the result against West Coast this weekend entirely meaningless. How can you compare the result of a now dead-rubber to a live match with finals on the line? You can’t, and you’re better off ignoring anyone who claims otherwise. We missed the 2023 finals off the back of Saturday night’s mistake. End of.

Another way to keep the story alive is to send our reserves to Perth, and let Tex and the team play a casual round of SANFL footy. The result on Saturday night was farcical, and the AFL doesn’t GAF. So let’s make the result of the West Coast game farcical too. Geelong have already put the cue in the rack, so why don’t we do the same? If we beat the Eagles all we’re doing is giving a leg-up in the national draft to three of Geelong, Essendon, Richmond and the Bulldogs (assuming Essendon and Richmond aren’t silly enough to try and knock-off Collingwood and Port Power respectively). That doesn’t help us ahead of our next live game, which is round one 2024, or when we’re next vying for an actual flag.

More often than not as a club we do the ‘right’ thing when it comes to maintaining the integrity of the competition (winning meaningless games that hurt our draft hand when other clubs tank and tank hard). It’s just that no one else cares (or remembers) when we do, and the competition has no integrity in any case, so what are we actually trying to achieve by being the good AFL corporate citizen? The only way to get retribution for being shafted by the AFL (again) is to win our third premiership. So let’s do whatever it takes to make that happen, starting with an old-fashioned up yours to the AFL by gutting our team for the trip to Perth.

 

[TryAnHit]

Could well go from pick 6 to 11 this week. Would love to see us rest everyone and not even risk an injury before the off season.
After last week bs really should just give all the young kids a go.

Eagles can afford to win now also since they have given up pick 1

 

[MsTopG]

When our goals are called points, it makes it much harder to beat opponents

Combine that with missing a lot of goals ourself and it's real hard.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Could well go from pick 6 to 11 this week. Would love to see us rest everyone and not even risk an injury before the off season.
After last week bs really should just give all the young kids a go.

Eagles can afford to win now also since they have given up pick 1

How the hell do we end up with pick 11??…

The highest we can possibly get to is 10th.. which equals pick 9..

Because geelong and the dogs play each other.. and even a draw between the two wouldnt change things..

 

[aabp1978]

How the hell do we end up with pick 11??…

The highest we can possibly get to is 10th.. which equals pick 9..

Because geelong and the dogs play each other.. and even a draw between the two wouldnt change things..

Assume they are talking about with academy and compensation picks? Heard today Eagles might not even get a pick till pick 4

 

[hugecannon]

Cook is a weird one. Looked good in the second half vs Melbourne at the MCG.

Looked average on a suburban mudheap that's not fit for amateur league football and is being ripped up as soon as this season finishes.

If we went by SANFL form we'd re-draft James Battersby and delist McAdam

I'd pick Cook despite his indifferent form but I don't expect us to and imagine we'll keep playing inside mids on the wings

He struggled the first 3 quarters, but looked far more dangerous in the last quarter when he moved forward including a great goal late.

For me that’s his best role, potentially competing with McAdam for the one spot.

I’d pick him, he’s got talent and can do things that not many other players on our list can do. Back him in next year and I think he’ll become a good player for us.

 

[Crow till I die]

beat me to it!!

Confirmed no Sloane this week or McAdam but they have 'moved on'

 

[jenny61_99]

Sloane/McAdam not playing. Gollant in.