News Charlie and the Lions Factory - the Everlasting Charlie Cameron Trade Thread

[lioninthesand]

Seems to be the classic win win trade. Adelaide are very happy with fogarty as well.

Yeah both sutied to respective teams age profiles too, us needing a bit more talent in the 22-25 year age bracket, you guys pretty sorted there and happy to get some kids on the go.

 

[spotthedog1]

As weird as it sounds, I think of Charlie a little in the way I think of Eagles. Both bring a dynamic beyond thier actual ability to play football that we've lacked for a while.

We almost got a bit 1 dimensional because of our rebuild... short of maybe Mitch Robinson, no one really bought more than skill or talent or hard work to the team which is no way meant to be a criticism... we were simply looking to get the best players.

But Eagles brings a sort of fearless hardness, and brute force that we've lacked for a long time, and Charlie brings that flair and freakishness that just goes beyond skill.

It's not a comparison of the two at all that's hopefully pretty obvious, but these extra attributes are icing on the cake and the things that help lift a team. They go beyond a great mark or kick... they add the adrenaline needed to lift the rest of guys.

No question at all Charlie is worth 12 and then some, for not only what he can do personally but what he can do for everyone else.

Sorry, I'm going to disagree. We had plenty of hardness in the team. M Robbo, N Robbo and Gardiner all bring a decent amount of enforcement. Eagles brings more, sure, but I don't think he has the skills to retain a spot long-term. He's exceeded expectations, sure, but expectations were very low. I think a lot of people still give him a lot of leeway on the idea that he's basically a first year player, but at 28, that just doesn't really cut it for me.

Cameron brings X-factor, sure. Just gotta see whether he carries on with it from here. There have been plenty of players with X-factor and not a lot else... Cameron's showing decent glimpses, but we just have to see where that develops. So far, it's promising, but I'm still not convinced I wouldn't rather have Fogarty (who we did rate), with the potential to trade for Cameron this year as an out of contract player...

 

[werdna78]

Sorry, I'm going to disagree. We had plenty of hardness in the team. M Robbo, N Robbo and Gardiner all bring a decent amount of enforcement. Eagles brings more, sure, but I don't think he has the skills to retain a spot long-term. He's exceeded expectations, sure, but expectations were very low. I think a lot of people still give him a lot of leeway on the idea that he's basically a first year player, but at 28, that just doesn't really cut it for me.

Couple of points:
- Eagles has earn't his games, they haven't been gifted. (if he wasn't up to it, Fagan wouldn't have him the side)
- We are only going to get a couple of years out of him until our young team matures. (Even if he only plays 10 to 20 games, he has cost us nothing)
- You can never have too much toughness in the side (Eagles is 200cm 100kg brute)

 

[Kevvo]

Sorry, I'm going to disagree. We had plenty of hardness in the team. M Robbo, N Robbo and Gardiner all bring a decent amount of enforcement. Eagles brings more, sure, but I don't think he has the skills to retain a spot long-term. He's exceeded expectations, sure, but expectations were very low. I think a lot of people still give him a lot of leeway on the idea that he's basically a first year player, but at 28, that just doesn't really cut it for me.

Cameron brings X-factor, sure. Just gotta see whether he carries on with it from here. There have been plenty of players with X-factor and not a lot else... Cameron's showing decent glimpses, but we just have to see where that develops. So far, it's promising, but I'm still not convinced I wouldn't rather have Fogarty (who we did rate), with the potential to trade for Cameron this year as an out of contract player...

What if Fogarty hadn’t re-signed and was shaping up like another go-home story?

It is just interesting to me that he was passed on by everyone right up to the first pick held by an SA club.

 

[spotthedog1]

Couple of points:
- Eagles has earn't his games, they haven't been gifted. (if he wasn't up to it, Fagan wouldn't have him the side)
- We are only going to get a couple of years out of him until our young team matures. (Even if he only plays 10 to 20 games, he has cost us nothing)
- You can never have too much toughness in the side (Eagles is 200cm 100kg brute)

- Never said that Eagles hadn't earned his games.
- I know he's not here for a long time. That's the point. He's not an experienced head. He's a stopgap. So why is that a good thing?
- Agree, but just like X-factor alone isn't enough, neither is toughness. Annoyingly, his toughness makes him overcommit, and if you overcommit, you'd better kill the ball. Eagles isn't great at that.

What if Fogarty hadn’t re-signed and was shaping up like another go-home story?

It is just interesting to me that he was passed on by everyone right up to the first pick held by an SA club.

What if we never drafted a player ever again because of fear of homesickness? Fact is that we had Fogarty pretty high on our draft list, which had already excluded a LOT of guys we didn't like for various reasons, including homesickness. We were willing to draft him. Saying "trade was good because the guy we drafted instead might have gone home" is a great way to remain irrelevant.

 

[werdna78]

- I know he's not here for a long time. That's the point. He's not an experienced head. He's a stopgap. So why is that a good thing?

I agree it's not great, but it's best we have after losing so many mature players.
I also think if Justin Clarke was still playing, Eagles obviously wouldn't be.

 

[spotthedog1]

I agree it's not great, but it's best we have after losing so many mature players.
I also think if Justin Clarke was still playing, Eagles obviously wouldn't be.

Definitely.

I'd still rather put games into someone like Walker or Frost (or, if we're against a 2-tall forward line, dropping the third tall). We aren't sure that either of them are going to be on the list when we're competitive, but I'd argue that's better than pouring games into someone we know isn't going to be on the list when we're next competitive.

 

[notliondown]

Sorry, I'm going to disagree. We had plenty of hardness in the team. M Robbo, N Robbo and Gardiner all bring a decent amount of enforcement. Eagles brings more, sure, but I don't think he has the skills to retain a spot long-term. He's exceeded expectations, sure, but expectations were very low. I think a lot of people still give him a lot of leeway on the idea that he's basically a first year player, but at 28, that just doesn't really cut it for me.

Cameron brings X-factor, sure. Just gotta see whether he carries on with it from here. There have been plenty of players with X-factor and not a lot else... Cameron's showing decent glimpses, but we just have to see where that develops. So far, it's promising, but I'm still not convinced I wouldn't rather have Fogarty (who we did rate), with the potential to trade for Cameron this year as an out of contract player...

Don't be sorry, you have every right to disagree, but I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant as well.

I too doubt Eagles has the ability to retain his spot long term... skill, age, potential. He has a few things going against him at the moment. But what he does have is cm and kg on his side. Couple that with an intent to hurt his opponent physically he adds that kamikaze approach that the Scott brothers brought in the premiership era. Hell Eagles knows that his biggest attribute is his physicality so he exploits it. The Scotts were hardly the most skilled players either.

And I think the coaches understand that's close to all he brings. Now days we expect more from the 2 Robbo's and Gardiner. We expect skill and execution. But from Eagles we want mongrel and hurt while the players around him concentrate on simply being better at what they do.

As for Charlie bringing more... well I'll just say you're a hard marker. His general field play was thought of as his weakness but he's proven to be no more prone to a clanger than Beams or Zorko or Hodge... and on the other hand bits of bloody brilliance.

We will head back to the draft this year and again top up with 18 year olds. Some who may be better than Fogarty, some who may be inclined to sign for 4 years... My point being we will again have quality draftees at our fingertips.

The likelihood of getting another Charlie Cameron is incredibly slim.

 

[Carlos Danger]

What if Fogarty hadn’t re-signed and was shaping up like another go-home story?

It is just interesting to me that he was passed on by everyone right up to the first pick held by an SA club.

Dunno about that. I was fairly big on him as I saw him play a bit at glenelg. But after hurting his knee & having a poor championships he dropped a lot of people's ratings.

Crows were always going to take him if he was there having been burnt by lever & the go home at the time.

He has a good pre season & looks like a gun right were he was rated pre injury 2017. And im.not sure the go home would be that bad as he's a country boy so not like he would still be living with mum n dad & someone posted we had him at 6 on our board which would have eliminated any go home we identified.

 

[briztoon]

Dunno about that. I was fairly big on him as I saw him play a bit at glenelg. But after hurting his knee & having a poor championships he dropped a lot of people's ratings.

Crows were always going to take him if he was there having been burnt by lever & the go home at the time.

He has a good pre season & looks like a gun right were he was rated pre injury 2017. And im.not sure the go home would be that bad as he's a country boy so not like he would still be living with mum n dad & someone posted we had him at 6 on our board which would have eliminated any go home we identified.

There is a fair amount of talk of the draft board that Fogarty told several recruiters that he didn't want to leave S.A.

 

[Carlos Danger]

There is a fair amount of talk of the draft board that Fogarty told several recruiters that he didn't want to leave S.A.

Might be true, might be BS but it would be strange that we still had him as a possible selection or that he just decided not to tell us.
Maybe he just didn't want to go to some clubs.

 

[trikster]

Might be true, might be BS but it would be strange that we still had him as a possible selection or that he just decided not to tell us.
Maybe he just didn't want to go to some clubs.

Oh it's true, it was common knowledge within the industry that he wanted to go nowhere except one of the 2 SA teams.

 

[jackess]

Oh it's true, it was common knowledge within the industry that he wanted to go nowhere except one of the 2 SA teams.

We didn’t rule him out for that reason unlike several other draft prospects.

 

[Carlos Danger]

We didn’t rule him out for that reason unlike several other draft prospects.

Why not?

 

[jackess]

Why not?

I'm guessing we didn't see the risk as a deal-breaker. Maybe he was worth the risk

 

[Carlos Danger]

I'm guessing we didn't see the risk as a deal-breaker. Maybe he was worth the risk

Or this well known stuff in the industry is not true. We ruled out so many players due to go home risk but not Fogarty who was telling the world he was staying in SA? There's so much made up shit in the footy world it's pretty hard to know who to believe theese days. It might well be true but there's enough facts out there that don't fit in with it, therefore I will remain healthily skeptical.

In any case I don't really care as he was never in the conversation for our pick 1 & am pretty happy with Rayner & Cameron.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Or this well known stuff in the industry is not true. We ruled out so many players due to go home risk but not Fogarty who was telling the world he was staying in SA? There's so much made up shit in the footy world it's pretty hard to know who to believe theese days. It might well be true but there's enough facts out there that don't fit in with it, therefore I will remain healthily skeptical.

In any case I don't really care as he was never in the conversation for our pick 1 & am pretty happy with Rayner & Cameron.

Are there any direct quotes from Fogarty? Remember the pre draft tales of how Rayner was a lazy party boy who didn't want to leave Melbourne? So much stuff is just made up and people assume it's true without any evidence. Just nebulous "common knowledge"

 

[Carlos Danger]

Are there any direct quotes from Fogarty? Remember the pre draft tales of how Rayner was a lazy party boy who didn't want to leave Melbourne? So much stuff is just made up and people assume it's true without any evidence. Just nebulous "common knowledge"

The only words i heard from him is that he was just hoping to be drafted, his team mate from glenelg jonty scarenberg was touted as a first round pick & wasn't picked up at all. So wasn't getting ahead of himself.

Given how good he s been the "industry" could be making some excuses as to why they let him dtop so low. I wouldn't put it past them.

I think a lot of games & misinformation is spread around come draft time by the clubs trying to get some kind of advantage over others

 

[carnthemlions]

Is this the Fogarty thread now?

 

[trikster]

Why not?

Didn't need to. By the end of the season he was clearly not in #1 pick discussion and was always going to be gone before our second pick at #15.