Delisted Charlie Constable [drafted by Gold Coast at pick 63]

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hawkman

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Considering the age profile of Geelong I am surprised they are getting rid of Constable. May not be needed right now but in 18 months they could very much need him.
If no other club is wanting him, it may just be that he is a VFL player. He would probably get found out more on a bad AFL team so still ends up being a VFL player

Fringe players on good teams don't often become solid players on bad teams
 

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SnusCG

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If no other club is wanting him, it may just be that he is a VFL player. He would probably get found out more on a bad AFL team so still ends up being a VFL player

Fringe players on good teams don't often become solid players on bad teams
Ben Keays
Jarryd Lyons
Hugh Greenwood
Sam Collins
Tom Hickey
Jack Steele
Josh P Kennedy
Jarrod Witts
Matt De Boer
Lincoln McCarthy
Tim Membrey
Toby Nankervis

and they're just off the top of my head.

The thing that makes it hard for Constable is that as an unathletic midfielder, you need a point of difference; contested marking, elite disposal, forward craft, crazy pressure whatever it is, but he's yet to show he has any more strings to his bow other than contested ball winning.
 

hawkman

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Matt De Boer
Lincoln McCarthy
Tim Membrey
Toby Nankervis

and they're just off the top of my head.

The thing that makes it hard for Constable is that as an unathletic midfielder, you need a point of difference; contested marking, elite disposal, forward craft, crazy pressure whatever it is, but he's yet to show he has any more strings to his bow other than contested ball winning.
Ruckman i will agree are more likely to make a jump at a new club. I'm more thinking of the fringe players who have been at a club for awhile and might play 5-10 games a year when there are injuries . Some of those listed like Greenwood, Lyons, McCarthy were generally best 22 until late in the season or injured
Collins went back to the VFL

Geelong have had a lot of them that have gone nowhere at a new club eg Lang, Horlin-Smith, Buzza, Fogarty, Abbott, Jones (showing promise at WC), Thurlow, Cockatoo (more from injuries) and Smedts. Hawthorn had the same in their glory period
 

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Footy Smarts

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Considering the age profile of Geelong I am surprised they are getting rid of Constable. May not be needed right now but in 18 months they could very much need him.

It's weird how much people talk about Geelong's younger players that can't get a game but almost never mention the guys that are playing regularly.

We're led to believe we've got a very poor group of under 25s when guys like Holmes, Parfitt, O'Connor, Henry, Miers, Close, Ratugolea and Simpson are all basically walk up starts when fit. The quality of those guys is never mentioned. At the same time guys who have almost never been in our best 22 like Narkle, Clark and Constable are talked about like they're key parts of our future.

It's like the worst thing you can do at Geelong is to play well enough to be regularly picked. Spend time in the VFL and you're suddenly a gun young player. The fact is Constable has been delisted because he's not that good and is a long way behind other young players to get a spot in the team.
 

SnusCG

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Ruckman i will agree are more likely to make a jump at a new club. I'm more thinking of the fringe players who have been at a club for awhile and might play 5-10 games a year when there are injuries . Some of those listed like Greenwood, Lyons, McCarthy were generally best 22 until late in the season or injured
Collins went back to the VFL

Geelong have had a lot of them that have gone nowhere at a new club eg Lang, Horlin-Smith, Buzza, Fogarty, Abbott, Jones (showing promise at WC), Thurlow, Cockatoo (more from injuries) and Smedts. Hawthorn had the same in their glory period
Greenwood and Lyons were often either dropped or medical subs. They were traded for peanuts becaue they were both surplus to Adelaide's midfield needs which does make them fringe players.

I'd also argue that being delisted for a year for Collins and then getting re-drafted is also plenty of evidence that he was considered a fringe player.

Plenty of players don't come on, you're right, but plenty do. Looking back further you can find plenty of other examples like:

Sam Jacobs
Jack Gunston
Ivan Maric
Tom Lynch (Adelaide)
Dylan Roberton
Jack Hombsch
Stef Martin
Jaimie Cripps
Josh Bruce (when he was at GWS)
Joel Hamling
James Aish
Aaron Hall
Jordan Roughead
Nic Newman
Ryan Gardner
Dougal Howard
Darcy Cameron
Marc Pittonet
Dan Butler
Aiden Bonar
Oleg Markov
Peter Wright
Aliir Aliir
Jack Higgins
Nick Hind

There's plenty of players out there that can play very good football that aren't valued by their current club.
 

Taylor

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Constable is a victim of not having versatility in his game to let him fill in one of the fringe roles in a team while waiting to get some gametime in his actual position of midfield.

Geelong can't play Dangerfield forward, Selwood on the wing and forward, Parfitt forward, Menegola forward all while Constable plays midfield and then sits on the bench when the top tier players are in the roles.

It doesn't surprise me because Geelong are here to win right now, playing younger players in key roles costs games.

If Constable was able to play another role in the side he would have played more and rotated into the middle a bit each game. If he was taking marks and kicking goals or elite by foot off half back.
 

Vindicater

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So a case of being a one trick pony then?

He seems to fit what Essendon need (inside contested) but have hear he has issues running both ways?
 

CatToTheFuture

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So a case of being a one trick pony then?

He seems to fit what Essendon need (inside contested) but have hear he has issues running both ways?
Running in general not his strong point. He can't afford to throw away his petrol tickets chasing guys he won't run down anyway
 

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che88

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Dan butler was great for one year at Richmond, when he applied himself.he was playing vfl when he went to the Saints,after his great first year at the Saints how did he go the next year?does not have the application to be a regular good afl footballer, helped us win our drought breaking grand final but we dodged a bullet by getting rid of him.
 

Atomboy

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Dan butler was great for one year at Richmond, when he applied himself.he was playing vfl when he went to the Saints,after his great first year at the Saints how did he go the next year?does not have the application to be a regular good afl footballer, helped us win our drought breaking grand final but we dodged a bullet by getting rid of him.

Possibly true but he can also run really fast and sometimes has weird haircuts, so that has to count for something.
 

master bate

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Greenwood and Lyons were often either dropped or medical subs. They were traded for peanuts becaue they were both surplus to Adelaide's midfield needs which does make them fringe players.

I'd also argue that being delisted for a year for Collins and then getting re-drafted is also plenty of evidence that he was considered a fringe player.

Plenty of players don't come on, you're right, but plenty do. Looking back further you can find plenty of other examples like:

Sam Jacobs - Ruck
Jack Gunston - Adelaide lost it when he went home, not fringe at all
Ivan Maric - Ruck
Tom Lynch (Adelaide) - A Saints development fail but not delisted, young.
Dylan Roberton - granted permission to go home for personal reasons, had shown talent
Jack Hombsch - meh
Stef Martin - Ruck
Jaimie Cripps - see Lynch
Josh Bruce (when he was at GWS) - young developing tall behind others at GWS, not delisted
Joel Hamling - yes. Great find by the Dogs
James Aish - played in a grand final at Coll, squeezed out by salary cap
Aaron Hall - yeah/nah, has taken years at North to get it together
Jordan Roughead - Premiership ruck, smart pick up and reinvention by the Pies
Nic Newman - yes. But handy mature depth squeezed out, proven at the level
Ryan Gardner - wait is he good?
Dougal Howard - traded for a first round pick!
Darcy Cameron - Ruck(ish)
Marc Pittonet - Ruck
Dan Butler - yes, but premiership player who lost form with injury then squeezed out
Aiden Bonar - GWS squeeze out, injury prone
Oleg Markov - maybe, is he better than depth?
Peter Wright - yes, a rare rejuvenation
Aliir Aliir - traded for unders really, Swans having other priorities, wasn't struggling to get a game
Jack Higgins - Traded for an early second round pick and contracted, he pushed out of the Tigers.
Nick Hind - yes, great pick up

There's plenty of players out there that can play very good football that aren't valued by their current club.
Apart from the rucks it's Hamling, Newman, Hind, Butler from that list as cheap or delisted pick ups from good teams that have proven to be quality pick ups. Peter Wright from a bad team as a player who found rejuvenation in a strong side.

Of course some of them will work out, often guys who have had success at AFL level then fallen a bit out of favour. I'd imagine the fringe players who can't progress to regulars at good clubs aren't all that more successful than the ones who can't do it at bad clubs. There's usually flaws holding them back that don't get fixed.
 

master bate

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We're led to believe we've got a very poor group of under 25s when guys like Holmes, Parfitt, O'Connor, Henry, Miers, Close, Ratugolea and Simpson are all basically walk up starts when fit. The quality of those guys is never mentioned. At the same time guys who have almost never been in our best 22 like Narkle, Clark and Constable are talked about like they're key parts of our future.

It's like the worst thing you can do at Geelong is to play well enough to be regularly picked. Spend time in the VFL and you're suddenly a gun young player. The fact is Constable has been delisted because he's not that good and is a long way behind other young players to get a spot in the team.
Henry is excellent. Holmes very promising. Parfitt and Close absolutely useful role players.

After that: O'Connor's useful but only a young player at Geelong. Miers - have we seen his best already? Simpson - no. Esava, I like the tools but they don't get much done.

Clark, Narkle and Constable get talked up because (at least in theory) they have upside to play more expansive roles than the rest of the young guys who seem like role players (apart from Holmes, need to see more from him). Clark was drafted and has genuinely played like he can do more. The 2 mids I definitely don't believe in, but their VFL footy and some of their AFL footy has flashed a lot of upside.

Parfitt's definitely a more reliable AFL player but if you spliced his highlight video full of defensive pressure and his awkward kicking and put in Narkle's smooth moving from stoppages and classy ball use you'd think Narkle is the far better player. Pretty easy to see why Narkle generates noise compared to output. Same goes for Constable based on the lazy stat factor - 'he gets it 40 times in the VFL, why doesn't he play AFL' etc.
 

Rich01

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Dan butler was great for one year at Richmond, when he applied himself.he was playing vfl when he went to the Saints,after his great first year at the Saints how did he go the next year?does not have the application to be a regular good afl footballer, helped us win our drought breaking grand final but we dodged a bullet by getting rid of him.
Disagree.
He’s an excellent footballer and plays his role well. Performs well with a side that provides good pressure in the forward half and can afford him to slip out the back to kick goals. In bad sides, players like this look like lazy passengers.

There is a direct correlation between the way Butlers 2020 and 2021 years went with his teams fortunes.
 

SnusCG

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Apart from the rucks it's Hamling, Newman, Hind, Butler from that list as cheap or delisted pick ups from good teams that have proven to be quality pick ups. Peter Wright from a bad team as a player who found rejuvenation in a strong side.

Of course some of them will work out, often guys who have had success at AFL level then fallen a bit out of favour. I'd imagine the fringe players who can't progress to regulars at good clubs aren't all that more successful than the ones who can't do it at bad clubs. There's usually flaws holding them back that don't get fixed.
At no point have I mentioned these guys being delisted or bad as a factor, simply that they were fringe players at their clubs before they were traded for whatever reason, which they all were. It doesn't matter whether they were 'a developmental fail' or a 'squeezed out', they couldn't get many games at their previous club before becoming good players at the club that took them. you used ' they were depth' repeatedly as a reason those players don't qualify despite the list being 'depth or fringe' players that excelled later on.

it's not as though Geelong are a scrub team either. They have a lot of elite veteran guys who to be pushed out of the team would require an incredibly talented player to be taking over from them.
 

master bate

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At no point have I mentioned these guys being delisted or bad as a factor, simply that they were fringe players at their clubs before they were traded for whatever reason, which they all were. It doesn't matter whether they were 'a developmental fail' or a 'squeezed out', they couldn't get many games at their previous club before becoming good players at the club that took them. you used ' they were depth' repeatedly as a reason those players don't qualify despite the list being 'depth or fringe' players that excelled later on.

it's not as though Geelong are a scrub team either. They have a lot of elite veteran guys who to be pushed out of the team would require an incredibly talented player to be taking over from them.
But you're being disingenuous comparing players who have clearly been highly rated by their original club and had significant trade value with a classic fringe player in Constable. 12 games in 4 years. Delisted. Compare the apples to apples.

Young players like Gunston, 19 goals in 12 games as a skinny 2nd year tall(ish). Howard, had played an excellent year at full back before Port stuffed around and moved him forward. Guys who've played in grand finals like Aish, hardly a stretch going from 14 games and a grand final to 22 at Freo. It's not a shock that any of those guys went on to be successful, they were every chance to be successful had they stayed at their original clubs.

Constable has played 5 games in the last 2 years despite Danger, Duncan and Selwood missing significant time due to injuries. Max Holmes played 9 this year alone. Yes the cats have plenty of veterans but they also have a fairly thin list. Zach Guthrie played 12 games and he's the furthest you can get from 'an incredibly talented player'.

As someone else posted when you look at the similar Geelong recycled players over recent years - Thurlow, Smedts, Horlin-Smith, Murdoch, Lang - you get a like for like comparison that is far less favourable.
 

SnusCG

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But you're being disingenuous comparing players who have clearly been highly rated by their original club and had significant trade value with a classic fringe player in Constable. 12 games in 4 years. Delisted. Compare the apples to apples.

Young players like Gunston, 19 goals in 12 games as a skinny 2nd year tall(ish). Howard, had played an excellent year at full back before Port stuffed around and moved him forward. Guys who've played in grand finals like Aish, hardly a stretch going from 14 games and a grand final to 22 at Freo. It's not a shock that any of those guys went on to be successful, they were every chance to be successful had they stayed at their original clubs.

Constable has played 5 games in the last 2 years despite Danger, Duncan and Selwood missing significant time due to injuries. Max Holmes played 9 this year alone. Yes the cats have plenty of veterans but they also have a fairly thin list. Zach Guthrie played 12 games and he's the furthest you can get from 'an incredibly talented player'.

As someone else posted when you look at the similar Geelong recycled players over recent years - Thurlow, Smedts, Horlin-Smith, Murdoch, Lang - you get a like for like comparison that is far less favourable.
Gunston, fine, I'll give it to you because he was a 2nd year player.

Aish was a fringe player at Collingwood who they were happy to salary dump. Just because he played in the grand final doesn't make him not a fringe player, he played 9 games that season and only 8 the season prior.

Max Holmes played forward this year and Zach Guthrie plays on the flanks. they're not inside mids like Constable, which as I said earlier is why he's undervalued - he has no positional versatility and he's not pushing out Dangerfield, Selwood, Guthrie, Duncan, or Parfitt.

You're also completely missing the point of the post. I personally don't think Constable will come on and become a great player at another club, my entire position is that just because someone is a fringe player at one club doesn't mean they aren't a good player that can fit in the right system.
 

Pure_Ownage

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But you're being disingenuous comparing players who have clearly been highly rated by their original club and had significant trade value with a classic fringe player in Constable. 12 games in 4 years. Delisted. Compare the apples to apples.

Young players like Gunston, 19 goals in 12 games as a skinny 2nd year tall(ish). Howard, had played an excellent year at full back before Port stuffed around and moved him forward. Guys who've played in grand finals like Aish, hardly a stretch going from 14 games and a grand final to 22 at Freo. It's not a shock that any of those guys went on to be successful, they were every chance to be successful had they stayed at their original clubs.

Constable has played 5 games in the last 2 years despite Danger, Duncan and Selwood missing significant time due to injuries. Max Holmes played 9 this year alone. Yes the cats have plenty of veterans but they also have a fairly thin list. Zach Guthrie played 12 games and he's the furthest you can get from 'an incredibly talented player'.

As someone else posted when you look at the similar Geelong recycled players over recent years - Thurlow, Smedts, Horlin-Smith, Murdoch, Lang - you get a like for like comparison that is far less favourable.

Geelong give games to young kids if they are good enough-see henry miers parfitt close and now holmes..the issue is all those guys have role versatility...CC can only play one role (which is the spot we are stacked in) and lacks endurance to run out games which is why he hasnt got a clear run of games.
 

lewdogs

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Dan butler was great for one year at Richmond, when he applied himself.he was playing vfl when he went to the Saints,after his great first year at the Saints how did he go the next year?does not have the application to be a regular good afl footballer, helped us win our drought breaking grand final but we dodged a bullet by getting rid of him.
You're kidding yourself, "dodged a bullet" getting rid of Butler. He'd walk into your team right now. He's a very good AFL player.
 

Thunderstruck

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He's far and away good enough to be playing AFL, strong body, can win his own ball and not actually that slow either. Tank the only main issue I see with him and I think if he improves that by a few %, he'll be a very valuable asset to any side.
 

Pure_Ownage

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He's far and away good enough to be playing AFL, strong body, can win his own ball and not actually that slow either. Tank the only main issue I see with him and I think if he improves that by a few %, he'll be a very valuable asset to any side.

He needs to improve his tank by way more than a few %. Capped rotations have really hurt him.
 

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