Player Watch Charlie Dean

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Scodog10

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Largely agree, but by the same token it might be faulty reasoning to think that an 18-year-old draftee is gonna take 3 to 4 years to be ready, but a 20-year-old rookie is ready to go.

It might, but not when the 20yo is already an established proven player at state league level. He needs to prove something of course, but his baseline already has him on a standard that’s perhaps ahead of Keane before he even walks through the door.
 

Mollythedolly

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I don't get the desire to keep a thread strictly on topic. In a situation like this, discussing Dean's short term prospects also involves discussion of our other talls short term prospects, which is where Kreuger came in to the discussion.

I’m not fussed about either way about whether posts remain on topic. Just think that if you’re going off topic then you need to be more specific in your post. How hard is it to include a players name.

Likely I would have made the same point either way. Checkers recruited as KPD depth, is his move forward a failure? Howe recruited as a forward-mid, is his move into defence a failure? Reid recruited as a KPF, AA as a defender is hardly a failure? Leon Davis had arguably his best season in his final year as a defender, was that a failure?
 
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Mike Olotripo

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Very happy we have picked up Charlie Dean as we lack key position defensive depth.

I think he will make a fair crack of it and good on him. He was highly touted as a forward in his draft year (2019), didn't get picked up, went back and worked on his game and has now become a high quality VFL key defender and got himself drafted off the back of his 2021 season.
 

Kappa

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Very happy we have picked up Charlie Dean as we lack key position defensive depth.

I think he will make a fair crack of it and good on him. He was highly touted as a forward in his draft year (2019), didn't get picked up, went back and worked on his game and has now become a high quality VFL key defender and got himself drafted off the back of his 2021 season.

Can’t have been that highly touted…
 

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Ingy

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I’m not fussed about either way about whether posts remain on topic. Just think that if you’re going off topic then you need to be more specific in your post. How hard is it to include a players name.

Likely I would have made the same point either way. Checkers recruited as KPD depth, is his move forward a failure? Howe recruited as a forward-mid, is his move into defence a failure? Reid recruited as a KPF, AA as a defender is hardly a failure? Leon Davis had arguably his best season in his final year as a defender, was Tharp a failure?

That wasn't the poster's point.

This was - that Kreuger has been recruited as a forward. That part of the effort to recruit was in offering him opportunity as a forward.

So before he can be considered as a defensive option, he has to be given a chance as a forward.

And therefore, if he ends up playing for us as an AFL defender, part of the journey will be failing as an AFL forward.

That is what the poster was saying, and he was correct
 

Mollythedolly

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That wasn't the poster's point.

This was - that Kreuger has been recruited as a forward. That part of the effort to recruit was in offering him opportunity as a forward.

So before he can be considered as a defensive option, he has to be given a chance as a forward.

And therefore, if he ends up playing for us as an AFL defender, part of the journey will be failing as an AFL forward.

That is what the poster was saying, and he was correct

How is it any different? If you want to focus specifically on trades, Howe traded as a forward-mid playing back, Crisp traded as a mid playing predominantly back. Neither is a failure on any level. AFL footy is littered with similar stories. Guys like Kreuger who haven’t established themselves either forward or back despite opportunity both ends are just as likely to end up at either end. It’s hardly a failure and to claim it as such says more about the claimant than the player.
 

Ingy

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How is it any different? If you want to focus specifically on trades, Howe traded as a forward-mid playing back, Crisp traded as a mid playing predominantly back. Neither is a failure on any level. AFL footy is littered with similar stories. Guys like Kreuger who haven’t established themselves either forward or back despite opportunity both ends are just as likely to end up at either end. It’s hardly a failure and to claim it as such says more about the claimant than the player.

No one is claiming any failure. Simply that Kreuger has been promised opportunity as a forward, and will get it, and if he grabs it with both hands, he will be a forward forevermore. End of story
 

Mollythedolly

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If he ends up in the backline that'll mean he failed in the forward line, which is where he'll be tried first.

No one is claiming any failure. Simply that Kreuger has been promised opportunity as a forward, and will get it, and if he grabs it with both hands, he will be a forward forevermore. End of story

Hmmm, maybe I misread….. ahhhhh, nup!
 

Ingy

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How is it any different? If you want to focus specifically on trades, Howe traded as a forward-mid playing back, Crisp traded as a mid playing predominantly back. Neither is a failure on any level. AFL footy is littered with similar stories. Guys like Kreuger who haven’t established themselves either forward or back despite opportunity both ends are just as likely to end up at either end. It’s hardly a failure and to claim it as such says more about the claimant than the player.

No, he is not.

He is much more likely to end up as a forward BECAUSE THAT'S THE POSITION HE WAS RECRUITED TO PLAY.

If Howe had kicked 6 goals a game on debut as a forward for Collingwood, he would never have become an intercepting defender.

It doesn't mean the switch to defence was a failure, for chrissake, it means his short career as a forward for us was.

If it hadn't been, he'd still be one.

This really isn't hard to understand
 

sr36

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Hmmm, maybe I misread….. ahhhhh, nup!

The comment you've quoted wasn't suggesting he'd be a failure overall, if he gets moved back. He could struggle as a forward and then become a quality defender. But with our list, there's no chance he gets moved back unless he's struggling up forward. No chance at all.
 

Mollythedolly

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No, he is not.

He is much more likely to end up as a forward BECAUSE THAT'S THE POSITION HE WAS RECRUITED TO PLAY.

If Howe had kicked 6 goals a game on debut as a forward for Collingwood, he would never have become an intercepting defender.

It doesn't mean the switch to defence was a failure, for chrissake, it means his short career as a forward for us was.

If it hadn't been, he'd still be one.

This really isn't hard to understand

I think your recollection on Howe’s move to defense differs from mine.

I agree, not hard to understand so not sure what help I can offer if you’re so unable to grasp it.
 
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Mollythedolly

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The comment you've quoted wasn't suggesting he'd be a failure overall, if he gets moved back. He could struggle as a forward and then become a quality defender. But with our list, there's no chance he gets moved back unless he's struggling up forward. No chance at all.

Semantics. Some choose to see failure, I see players taking their opportunities.
 

Gabbo64

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That wasn't the poster's point.

This was - that Kreuger has been recruited as a forward. That part of the effort to recruit was in offering him opportunity as a forward.

So before he can be considered as a defensive option, he has to be given a chance as a forward.

And therefore, if he ends up playing for us as an AFL defender, part of the journey will be failing as an AFL forward.

That is what the poster was saying, and he was correct
If we have better options as a forward and he moves back does not necessarily mean he is a failure as a forward, just that we have a better option.
 

Babylove

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