Chicago Bulls '90's..VS..LA Lakers '00's

[DEVO]

Originally posted by jod23
Pippen is one the best players to have ever played the game. Fisher is a role player who bobs up every now and then and scores a few points. Harper would shut him down. Pippen or Jordan take your pick would shut out Kobe and Shaq cant win it by himself while Jordan and Pippen are wreaking havoc on the offensive end.

Harper would not shut Fisher down, because his Fisher's teammate.

Anyway, it's a pointless exercise comparing these teams because there are players/coaches common to both teams.

There are both great sides, dominate in their eras, but neither can light a candle to Lakers of the Mid-Eighties.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by jod23


Sick of hearing the Kobe is 22 whats he gonna be like later. And that he is way better than MJ was when he was 22. Well i bet Jordan was a lot smarter than Kobe at 22, Mj finished college and had his first year when he was 22 23. Kobe came straight outta high school and has already played 4 years of Pro Basketball.

Now i have a keen eye for talent and yes Kobe is good but even when he is 28 wont even be near to the skill of Micheal Jordan. Jordan is the most complete player the game has ever known and can hurt you in any facet of the game, hell he hurts you by just being out on the floor because everyone knows he's out there. Just his presence is enough, he would beat you before the game starts cos you know you cant beat him...and nobody could. Certainly not some punk kid Kobe.

It will be interesting to see if that is still the case , especially if MJ makes a comeback next season. I don't think that punk kid Kobe will be to concerned about MJ's presence on the court epsecially if he ends up playing for the Wizards.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by jod23


These comments are again shocking!!! Shaq the second most dominant player in the 90's???? LMAO. The following were all more dominant in the 90's than Shaq.

Micheal Jordan
Scottie Pippen
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Karl Malone
Dominique Wilkins
Clyde Drexler
Charles Barkley
Gary Payton

O'Neal wasnt even the most dominant centre. Terrible comment that one Carb.

Again Jod this is only your opinion. You are the guy who told me at the start of the year that West Coast were a better team than Port.

These guys stats don't indicate that they were any better than Shaq. Sure they might of had periods where they dominated the game but Shaq keeps putting up the same figures year in year out and he has been doing it since day 1. Then again being a Lakers fan I would appericate the value of a quality center more than a Bulls fan because the Bulls have never had one.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by jod23


And if i was an owner of a basketball team and could take either Shaq Rodman or Pippen...Hmmm. Id take Shaq because Rodman is retired and Pippen is past his best. But if they were all 22 years old there no doubt id take Scottie Pippen. An awesome player who does more than score and rebound like Shaq. Pippen is one of the best players ever so your question was a little dumb, most ppl with half a brain would take Pippen.

Pippen 6 rings
Shaq 2 rings

Until he has 6 then argue that he is better than Pippen. And dont give me the, he only got 6 cos he played with Mike because ill bet you a lot of money that Shaq wouldnt have 2 if he didnt have Kobe with him.

My theory is that the NBA is such a tough league that you need 2 really quality players to get a championship. Jordan had Pippen, Bird had McHale and Parish, Isiah had Dumars and Rodman, Shaq has Kobe, Robinson had Duncan.

Just another reminder

Pippen 6
Shaq 2

Jod I'm glad I don't have half a brain because here are Shaqs and Scotties stats that they averaged when they were 22.

PPG 7.9 29.3
RPG 3.8 13.2
FG% .463 .599
Assists 2.1 2.4
Blocks .66 2.85
Steals 1.15 .94

Incase you didn't know Shaqs stats are the ones on the right.

Also how stupid is that arguement that Scottie is better because he has 6 championships. Does that make him better than Magic?, because Magic only has 5. Also Chicago would of still won those championships even if Pippen wasn't there. The same can't be said about Shaq. If the Lakers didn't have Shaq they would not of won the last 2 championships.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by jod23
Carb went strangely silent. He's a good man, he knows when he is beat.

Sorry Jod I would of replied sooner but I was busy watching games 2-5 of this years NBA finals

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by DEVO


Harper would not shut Fisher down, because his Fisher's teammate.

Anyway, it's a pointless exercise comparing these teams because there are players/coaches common to both teams.

There are both great sides, dominate in their eras, but neither can light a candle to Lakers of the Mid-Eighties.

Well said.

 

[coxon]

the lakers of the mid eighties..
kareem, magic, worthy, coop, scott, ac green, kurt rambis, mychal thompson, tony campbell....

the team that went back to back...
is my favourite nba team team...

but, i concede that, this team wouldnt have been able to beat the jordan led bulls.. they wouldnt have matched the bulls defensive intensity..

 

[ant]

Originally posted by coxon
the lakers of the mid eighties..
kareem, magic, worthy, coop, scott, ac green, kurt rambis, mychal thompson, tony campbell....

the team that went back to back...
is my favourite nba team team...

but, i concede that, this team wouldnt have been able to beat the jordan led bulls.. they wouldnt have matched the bulls defensive intensity..

Well said.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by DEVO


Harper would not shut Fisher down, because his Fisher's teammate.

Anyway, it's a pointless exercise comparing these teams because there are players/coaches common to both teams.

There are both great sides, dominate in their eras, but neither can light a candle to Lakers of the Mid-Eighties.

The Lakers of the 80's were all about razzle and dazzle and scoring plenty of points. Thats why they were called showtime. But the Bulls can score till the cows come home but they can also put on plenty of pressure on the defensive end. The old saying is that Defence wins games. The Bulls were the best defensive team ever.

Bulls in 7.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by carb70


It will be interesting to see if that is still the case , especially if MJ makes a comeback next season. I don't think that punk kid Kobe will be to concerned about MJ's presence on the court epsecially if he ends up playing for the Wizards.

I dont think Jordan will come back but if he does he will instantly resume the mantle of best player in the league. He will only come back if he thinks he still will be the best on return. So if he comes back he will be if he doesnt then he obviously doesnt think he can do it anymore. I dont want him to come back if its with the Wizards cos the Wizards suck. If he comes back he has to come back with a reasonable team.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by carb70


Again Jod this is only your opinion. You are the guy who told me at the start of the year that West Coast were a better team than Port.

These guys stats don't indicate that they were any better than Shaq. Sure they might of had periods where they dominated the game but Shaq keeps putting up the same figures year in year out and he has been doing it since day 1. Then again being a Lakers fan I would appericate the value of a quality center more than a Bulls fan because the Bulls have never had one.

All those guys i mentioned didnt just start putting up numbers 10 years into there careers??? They all put up numbers consistently throughout there career. Ewing Robinson and Olajuwon guaranteed you a double double every night. They all did from pretty much day 1. Especially Jordan, he came straight in and was already scoring and dunking like no tomorrow.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by carb70


Jod I'm glad I don't have half a brain because here are Shaqs and Scotties stats that they averaged when they were 22.

PPG 7.9 29.3
RPG 3.8 13.2
FG% .463 .599
Assists 2.1 2.4
Blocks .66 2.85
Steals 1.15 .94

Incase you didn't know Shaqs stats are the ones on the right.

Also how stupid is that arguement that Scottie is better because he has 6 championships. Does that make him better than Magic?, because Magic only has 5. Also Chicago would of still won those championships even if Pippen wasn't there. The same can't be said about Shaq. If the Lakers didn't have Shaq they would not of won the last 2 championships.

In the words of Rove..... What the?

I dont care what they averaged when they were 22, i care about what they achieved and became in there careers. Pippen is one of the greatest players of all time with 6 championships. Thats why i would take Pip. He's a machine, unlike shaq, Pippen can beat you while only scoring say 15 a game because he does it in other areas. Shaq can score and you would hope he can rebound with the size of him and he can block shots. Most centres can do this. Thats why i like smaller players like MJ and Pip they can hurt you in more ways.

Your also full of crap if you think MJ could have won championships without Pippen. As i said in an earlier post, in todays game you need at least two genuine stars of the game to get a championship. AND OF COURSE THE LAKERS WOULDNT HAVE WON 2 CHAMPIONSHIPS WITHOUT SHAQ. You are comparing star against secondary star. Pip was the backup as is Kobe. So compare Shaq the leader to MJ the leader. No contest.

Anyways ill summarize. MJ better than everyone. Pip better than most. Kobe ok for a kid. Shaq a pretty good centre. On all time list Kobe and Shaq are in top 100 players of all time, say about 60 and 69. Jordan is 1 and Pip is somewhere in top 15.

There nice and easy.

 

[jod23]

Also just on the Pippen thing, when he came out of college he was an unproven unknown skinny kid out of Central Arkansas. Shaq was number 1 out of the draft and was straight into the fray. Pippen was still finding his feet.

You also forgot to mention that Pippen was only playing 20.9 minutes per game when he was 22 compared to Shaq's 39.8. Thats pretty much double the amount of time on court, no wonder he got more points rebound ect.

And anyway Pippen has never averaged more points or rebounds a game than Shaq has, its not his game. Although he has healthy averages of 6.6 boards and 17 ppg, it is his athleticism, his defensive pressure, his quickness, his assists, his steals his all round awesome game that makes him a better player that Shaq ever will be.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by coxon
the lakers of the mid eighties..
kareem, magic, worthy, coop, scott, ac green, kurt rambis, mychal thompson, tony campbell....

the team that went back to back...
is my favourite nba team team...

but, i concede that, this team wouldnt have been able to beat the jordan led bulls.. they wouldnt have matched the bulls defensive intensity..

Very well said.

 

[DEVO]

Originally posted by jod23


The Lakers of the 80's were all about razzle and dazzle and scoring plenty of points. Thats why they were called showtime. But the Bulls can score till the cows come home but they can also put on plenty of pressure on the defensive end. The old saying is that Defence wins games. The Bulls were the best defensive team ever.

Bulls in 7.

It's pointless discussing anything basketball related with you because you think the sun shines out of Jordan's arse, when in fact it's nothing more than a black hole (no racist slur intended).

Lakers had too much depth, too many scoring options and too many hall-of-famers for the Bulls. The Lakers in a easy and lazy 4.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by jod23


In the words of Rove..... What the?

I dont care what they averaged when they were 22, i care about what they achieved and became in there careers. Pippen is one of the greatest players of all time with 6 championships. Thats why i would take Pip. He's a machine, unlike shaq, Pippen can beat you while only scoring say 15 a game because he does it in other areas. Shaq can score and you would hope he can rebound with the size of him and he can block shots. Most centres can do this. Thats why i like smaller players like MJ and Pip they can hurt you in more ways.

Your also full of crap if you think MJ could have won championships without Pippen. As i said in an earlier post, in todays game you need at least two genuine stars of the game to get a championship. AND OF COURSE THE LAKERS WOULDNT HAVE WON 2 CHAMPIONSHIPS WITHOUT SHAQ. You are comparing star against secondary star. Pip was the backup as is Kobe. So compare Shaq the leader to MJ the leader. No contest.

Anyways ill summarize. MJ better than everyone. Pip better than most. Kobe ok for a kid. Shaq a pretty good centre. On all time list Kobe and Shaq are in top 100 players of all time, say about 60 and 69. Jordan is 1 and Pip is somewhere in top 15.

There nice and easy.

Thats funny Shaq rates number 60 of all. Can you name the 59 players better than him for me?.

You rate Shaq as a leader and Pippen as a back-up and yet you still rate Pippen as a better player. I can't understand that, Pippen was good because he didn't have the pressure of being the main guy, MJ took a lot of pressure off him. Yet Shaq who has won league MVP and Finals MVP awards gets doubled teamed every game and he still dominates he is the main guy and he gets the job done. Thats the reason he is and will always be better than Scottie.

Anyway Jod I think we should just agree to disagree. I'm happy my Lakers are the best in the game today. I not sure if you are happy with the Bulls of today though. All that I know is the Lakers are always up there and they will stay there for many more years to come.

Finally I look fowrd to seeing your list of the 59 players better than Shaq.

 

[Danny Chook Fan Club]

Meanwhile, I'll try my very hardest to come up with 15 players better than Pippen ...

Bill Russell
Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Kareem Adbul-Jabbar
Karl Malone
Bob Cousy
Pete Havlicek
John Stockton
Hakeem Olajawon
Julius Erving
George Gervin
George Mikan
Jerry West

... should I keep going? OK ...

Oscar Robertson
Bob Pettit
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Willis Reed
Isiah Thomas
Moses Malone

and clearly, Shaquille O'Neal.

Feel free to add to this list.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by DEVO


It's pointless discussing anything basketball related with you because you think the sun shines out of Jordan's arse, when in fact it's nothing more than a black hole (no racist slur intended).

Lakers had too much depth, too many scoring options and too many hall-of-famers for the Bulls. The Lakers in a easy and lazy 4.

Same can be said about you. Lakers lakers lakers blah blah blah. Show some respect to the greatest ball player ever. MJ is the man.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by carb70


Thats funny Shaq rates number 60 of all. Can you name the 59 players better than him for me?.

You rate Shaq as a leader and Pippen as a back-up and yet you still rate Pippen as a better player. I can't understand that, Pippen was good because he didn't have the pressure of being the main guy, MJ took a lot of pressure off him. Yet Shaq who has won league MVP and Finals MVP awards gets doubled teamed every game and he still dominates he is the main guy and he gets the job done. Thats the reason he is and will always be better than Scottie.

Anyway Jod I think we should just agree to disagree. I'm happy my Lakers are the best in the game today. I not sure if you are happy with the Bulls of today though. All that I know is the Lakers are always up there and they will stay there for many more years to come.

Finally I look fowrd to seeing your list of the 59 players better than Shaq.

The only reason i said Pippen was a back up was because he was backing up MJ. On any other team Pip would have been the leader. And it was the other way round stupid, Pip took pressure off MJ. MJ didnt have to do it all night in night out cos Pippen was there taking the pressure off.

Im reasonably happy with where the Bulls are at now. I though Jerry and Jerry could have done a better job of rebuilding but Chandler and Curry look good, we also got Oakley and E-Rob. Thats four pretty good guys with 3 being young and a good vet in Oak. With other talent like Artest, Mercer and Fizer i think were in good stead. Brand was tough to let go but he didnt really make us any better. Anyways a bit more trading and drafting and we might come out alright.

Oh and Shaq will never be as good as Pippen ... end of story.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Danny Chook Fan Club
Meanwhile, I'll try my very hardest to come up with 15 players better than Pippen ...

Bill Russell
Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Kareem Adbul-Jabbar
Karl Malone
Bob Cousy
Pete Havlicek
John Stockton
Hakeem Olajawon
Julius Erving
George Gervin
George Mikan
Jerry West

... should I keep going? OK ...

Oscar Robertson
Bob Pettit
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Willis Reed
Isiah Thomas
Moses Malone

and clearly, Shaquille O'Neal.

Feel free to add to this list.

I like the way you just think of some famous names without any reasons or substance.

Petit
Unseld
Walton
K.Malone
Stockton
M.Malone
Mikan
Olajuwon
O'Neal

All not as good as Pippen.

Gimme reasons or evidence. And try to be an individual and think about Pippen without thinking about MJ. Nobody gives him the credit he deserves because he was always in the shadow of Mike.

 

[DEVO]

Originally posted by jod23


Same can be said about you. Lakers lakers lakers blah blah blah. Show some respect to the greatest ball player ever. MJ is the man.

Jordan is one of the greatest players of all time, but not the Greatest, that honour goes to MAGIC.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Danny Chook Fan Club]

jod, there's a very simple way to see how good Pippen is, and that's to look at his record without Michael Jordan in the same side. That would be 1994, most of 1995, and post 1998.

The simple fact is that Pippen has achieved absolutely nothing in the game without having Jordan to hold his hand.

Case closed.

Do not undersell any of those names above. K Malone, Stockton, Olajuwon & O'Neal need no introduction, and if you can find anyone else to tell me that Pippen is better than the first three, then I'm all ears.

Wes Unseld remains the only player other than Chamberlain to win the MVP in his first year. Washington was a pathetic side when Unseld was drafted, never having had a winning season. He instantly made them contenders, much like Bill Russell in Boston a decade before. Unseld was 6'7", like Pippen. Unlike Pippen, he played centre, against blokes with names like Chamberlain, Alcindor/Abdul-Jabbar, etc, all taller and infinetely more talented than the pathetic crop of small forwards that Pippen has played against in his career.

Bob Pettit was, before Karl Malone, the greatest power forward in the game, and the first player to score 20,000 points. Is Pippen the second best small forward ever? Not in my view.

Bill Walton is probably only just better than Pippen in my view, but I rate him higher because he made his teams better, which I'm yet to see Pippen do.

George Mikan literally changed the way the game is played, and was the first truly great basketballer in the NBA. He literally dominated his era, which doesn't deserve to be discounted just because it was a long time ago. We don't dismiss Gordon Coventry or John Coleman because they played before most of us were born.

Moses Malone performed at an extraordinary high level for twenty years. Long before it was the norm, Malone skipped college entirely but was an instant star in the ABA. Despite playing two full seasons in the ABA, he still managed to be the fifth highest scorer in NBA history over his illustrious career.

These aren't just names off the top of my head jod, these are men who, in their own right and without riding on the coattails of a greater teammate, made their own place in basketball history. Respect them, as you are always asking others to respect your hero.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by jod23


And it was the other way round stupid, Pip took pressure off MJ. MJ didnt have to do it all night in night out cos Pippen was there taking the pressure off.

HA HA, I've read it all now. Jod are you sure your'e not Scottie Pippen?.

Jod or should I call you Scottie. If he/you is such a great player then why hasn't Portland won a NBA championship since he/you has been there. It's not like Portland are a bad team, there are quite a few good players there who Scootie can take the pressure off for.

 

[DEVO]

Originally posted by carb70
Jod or should I call you Scottie. If he/you is such a great player then why hasn't Portland won a NBA championship since he/you has been there. It's not like Portland are a bad team, there are quite a few good players there who Scootie can take the pressure off for.

It's because whenever Portland come up against the Lakers, Scottie is always outplayed by.... Horace Grant

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by DEVO


Jordan is one of the greatest players of all time, but not the Greatest, that honour goes to MAGIC.

Agree to disagree.

Devo....this proves you are ignorant because EVERYONE KNOWS MICHEAL JORDAN IS THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME!!!!!

Its not up for debate...its FACT.