Certified Legendary Thread China History in the Making

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It won’t happen. It costs $4m to get a game up and running, and Gold Coast doesn’t have the money to bankroll that. Neither does St Kilda.

The reason why the viewing numbers in Australia were so low is due to the fact that Essendon v Geelong was on at the same time. The only ones watching this game were Port fans.

Gold Coast doesn’t have the cachet in Shanghai to host a game anyway.
We also didn't have the money when we started this. Also, GC have the AFL's financial support. If the AFL want it to happen, it will happen. It would suck enormously for us but it would make absolute sense to the AFL.
 

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GC want the game and finally see opportunities with Huawei in Schenzen and others and then next weekend St Kilda. Although would be better to have a full stadium in week 1 to get the media interest in both Shanghai and Oz, so St Kilda first.

Lockhart Road if Allan Zeman gets involved via Lindsay Fox, then St Kilda might chase the Hong Kong opportunities like GC might chase the Schenzen opportunities.

So the double up costs of back to back games is 2 lots of flights and accommodation for the teams and 2 lots of $500k+ fees to sell games and 2 lots of operating costs on game day eg lights, security, preparation etc. Fox Footy would send over a production team for 2 games so accommodation costs would double but production costs wouldn't.

So if it cost $4.5m to put on 1 game in 2017 then in 2019 it would probably cost $4m + $1.5m ignoring light tower costs and the fact in 2017 probably close to $1m was capital costs to upgrade the stadium and turf.

If we set up a company there with Shaghai CRED and have employees live in Shanghai, that will help with not having Alberton be a complete ghost town for about 14 days.

Its still a massive challenge for the club to put on back to back games and will involve a lot of planning to get it right. KT said after last years game that it taxed the club to the extreme and it was the toughest thing he had done at the club, and management had to make sure staff weren't burnt out by the experience. I guess the post mortem later this week and/or next week will reveal how much easier Shanghai 2.0 was and how well placed we are to "move the footy club" to Shanghai for 14 days.

Like this post, but a couple of questions:

(1) Surely "a full stadium" all depends on how big a crowd the owners of the stadium are willing to tolerate. The stadium could probably hold many more than 10-12,000. But is it realistic to expect that we'd be allowed to have a crowd "fill the stadium" that would be maybe twice or three times that size?

(2) Surely 2 games wouldn't be 14 days? Wouldn't it be two weekends with the week in between: 7 or 8 days?

And apparently this year there was an AFL tournament of Chinese (or Shanghai?) teams the day after the game. Would it have been better to hold this the day before the game and incorporate it into the event (or if there were two games, in the time between them)?
 
Any reason why it can not happen before then? I don't think we have an exclusive agreement with the AFL. Only a commitment to let us play an early game there for 5 years.
Practical commonsense.

Who is going to supply the basic $$$ and all the government connections in Shanghai?

The AFL don't own the stadium. They don't have a contract with them like they do with the MCG. The AFL dont have an agreement with the Shanghai government. The AFL dont speak the local lingo. The AFL have bugger all contacts on the ground in Shanghai.

The AFL is not going to play a game in Shanghai without Mr Gui and his organisation backing it.

In China, saving face is a big deal. Mr Gui isn't going to lose face and cut us off when he knows S. Kidman & Co has its HQ in Adelaide and every month he travels here for a board meeting.

The relationship is Gui/Shangi CRED > Port > AFL

Its not AFL > Gui/Shanghai CRED > Port
 
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Like this post, but a couple of questions:

(1) Surely "a full stadium" all depends on how big a crowd the owners of the stadium are willing to tolerate. The stadium could probably hold many more than 10-12,000. But is it realistic to expect that we'd be allowed to have a crowd "fill the stadium" that would be maybe twice or three times that size?

(2) Surely 2 games wouldn't be 14 days? Wouldn't it be two weekends with the week in between: 7 or 8 days?

And apparently this year there was an AFL tournament of Chinese (or Shanghai?) teams the day after the game. Would it have been better to hold this the day before the game and incorporate it into the event (or if there were two games, in the time between them)?

1. By full stadium I mean currently what you see on TV all those seats are full. It can expand later, but 20k would be about the most you could get with temporary stands. But those hospitality tents bring in big $$$ to pay for the game and you dont want to get rid of them for stands until you have plenty of $$$ stitched up. Plus the smoozing and exchange that happens in those tents is a big part of why it works.

2. Think a little. We fly out on a Sunday and Monday. The game is played on a Saturday night. Then 7 days later game two is played on Saturday night, then Sunday and Monday people start flying back. That is your 14 days when we have 100+ people in Shanghai.
 
Practical commonsense.

Who is going to supply the basic $$$ and all the government connections in Shanghai?

The AFL don't own the stadium. They don't have a contract with them like they do with the MCG. The AFL dont have an agreement with the Shanghai government. The AFL dont speak the local lingo. The AFL have bugger all contacts on the ground in Shanghai.

The AFL is not going to play a game in Shanghai without Mr Gui and his organisation backing it.

In China, saving face is a big deal. Mr Gui isn't going to lose face and cut us off when he knows S. Kidman & Co has its HQ in Adelaide and every month he travels here for a board meeting.

The relationship is Gui/Shangi CRED > Port > AFL

Its not AFL > Gui/Shanghai CRED > Port
A lot of assumptions here.
 
Practical commonsense.

Who is going to supply the basic $$$ and all the government connections in Shanghai?

The AFL don't own the stadium. They don't have a contract with them like they do with the MCG. The AFL dont have an agreement with the Shanghai government. The AFL dont speak the local lingo. The AFL have bugger all contacts on the ground in Shanghai.

The AFL is not going to play a game in Shanghai without Mr Gui and his organisation backing it.

In China, saving face is a big deal. Mr Gui isn't going to lose face and cut us off when he knows S. Kidman & Co has its HQ in Adelaide and every month he travels here for a board meeting.

The relationship is Gui/Shangi CRED > Port > AFL

Its not AFL > Gui/Shanghai CRED > Port
Again, where did I say we would be cut off?
 
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Practical commonsense.

Who is going to supply the basic $$$ and all the government connections in Shanghai?

The AFL don't own the stadium. They don't have a contract with them like they do with the MCG. The AFL dont have an agreement with the Shanghai government. The AFL dont speak the local lingo. The AFL have bugger all contacts on the ground in Shanghai.

The AFL is not going to play a game in Shanghai without Mr Gui and his organisation backing it.

In China, saving face is a big deal. Mr Gui isn't going to lose face and cut us off when he knows S. Kidman & Co has its HQ in Adelaide and every month he travels here for a board meeting.

The relationship is Gui/Shangi CRED > Port > AFL

Its not AFL > Shanghai CRED > Port

It seems that I wouldn't be so far off the mark, then. Go figure! I wrote this yesterday:
... The club was able to find something... essential for the success of the enterprise: the right place to be... The future of the game is abroad..., and there are Chinese people willing to promote the game there. Port was able to promote the link.

The path for footy reaching China and vice-versa passes through Port Adelaide. Port has done everything in a way that, for now, if “no Port, no China.” It is the Chinese who wants the AFL; not, the other way around. The AFL does not want China; it NEEDS China. Hence, it is the AFL who must adjust itself to the Chinese...
Does it make sense?

source: http://farwestfooty.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-adventures-of-marko-porto-in-china_22.html
 
And apparently this year there was an AFL tournament of Chinese (or Shanghai?) teams the day after the game. Would it have been better to hold this the day before the game and incorporate it into the event (or if there were two games, in the time between them)?

Last year they had a tournament, it was modified game rules at a high school, not sure if it was AFLX rules or not. Alexander xxxx High School rings a bell, the day before the game.

This year it was an AFLX rules tournament the next day after the game where players from the teams across Asia played the tournament with the Shanghai Tigers winning in what looks to have been a 4 or 6 team comp. From these teams and individuals who flew in they also had a 2 x 20 minute game of Team China v Asian Lions after the Port game just like in 2017.

By being there for a week we can do more stuff with these tournaments and with the kids who are in the Power Footy programs during the week as well. The AFL has dopey rules about games before AFL teams that also restricts things. If we play a Saturday night I could see an all day event being held at the stadium, maybe invite the locals who live around the area to attend, maybe play the Team China v Asian Lions at 1pm, kick everyone out by 3.00pm, open the gates up again at 4.30 for a 5.40 start which would 7.40 in Melbourne 7.10 in Adelaide.

That's the beauty of having the ground for a week. Invite the local residents to come to the stadium, there are events on there every day, have the kids footy going so its free to get in and watch them but there is tasting Oz stuff on all week. There are plenty of offices as well as apartments around the area with in walking distance so if we are clever we could have a showcase week of Australian food, wine, culture, tourism, business stuff etc centre around Jiangwan stadium, go and letter drop and other promotions in a circle 1 km around the stadium. You might get access to 500,000 people.

There is no shortage of potential ideas. cash is the only real issue if we were able to get a back to back games approved.
 
Again, where did I say we would be cut off?

You said - GC to play 2 games in China. One vs Port and the other vs a Victorian club. You know it'll happen. I can see it unfolding already - so as the back to back game is our idea we are being cut off, cut out whatever you like to call it.

The GC are not going to fly to China twice in 23 week home and away season, so 2 games is back to back stuff which is our idea. Plus once again how is GC going to negotiate 2 weekends with the Chinese authorities and who is going to pay for them?
 
Name them
At work on my phone so I have to keep it short. But basically, that only us are capable of developing the contacts and acquire the resources to play football in China. That Mr Gui has a preference about the mix of clubs that play in China. Even more, that Mr Gui is the only Chinese billionaire willing to commit to such venture.
Edit: one more, that Shanghai is the only option.
 

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At work on my phone so I have to keep it short. But basically, that only us are capable of developing the contacts and acquire the resources to play football in China. That Mr Gui has a preference about the mix of clubs that play in China. Even more, that Mr Gui is the only Chinese billionaire willing to commit to such venture.
Edit: one more, that Shanghai is the only option.
Not so much "assumptions" by REH, more like plain common sense!
 
If you’re half thinking of going to see Port play next year in Shanghai just don’t hesitate. And if you can combine it with a tour. We did a 10 tour day that included Beijing, Xi’an and Shanghai.

Exceeded my expectations. Just so much to see and do. Saw both the modern and traditional China, and both are must sees. Our tour guide was brilliant. Didn’t have to worry about a thing. Everything was organised. If you’re a first timer to China it’s a hassle free way to travel.

The tour squeezd a lot in. Would have liked to have spent more time in some places (eg, the Great Wall) and less in others but that’s the nature of organised tours. And it’s hard to anticipate what you will and won’t like beforehand. I still give our tour a big, big tick.

Agree with this 100%. Had a fabulous amazing time. Wonderful country, steeped in an incredible history with terrific people. So much to see and do. If you get the chance, don't hesitate to go.
 

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Not sure where Kochie's "demonstration game" quip comes from - maybe the SMH article has since been edited...


Yes, I saw that earlier, read the article and couldn’t find a reference to “demonstration game”.

There was more than one tweet referencing it though so it must’ve been there at some stage.
 
We also didn't have the money when we started this. Also, GC have the AFL's financial support. If the AFL want it to happen, it will happen. It would suck enormously for us but it would make absolute sense to the AFL.

How do the AFL make it happen? They don't dictate what happens in China. The government refuses to issue visas to Australian ministers. Do you think they will issue visas to around 100 Australians who have shown no goodwill or backroom work to making this happen?

The AFL might have much say here about scheduling but not in Shanghai. China has no great interest in AFL. It only happens because of 5 years of work Port Adelaide has done and connections we have made.
 
Oh and because we didn't want to let RussellEbertHandball down we did ride the subway to the fake markets. The organised chaos of the subway system at peak hour was a sight to behold as were the markets. The Little Warrior was in her element bartering with sellers. We know they're scamming us and they know we know so it is all done with great spirit and good humour. Picked up a Samsonite duffel bag, Under Armor shoes and Jimmy Choo handbag for a pittance :D
 
At work on my phone so I have to keep it short. But basically, that only us are capable of developing the contacts and acquire the resources to play football in China. That Mr Gui has a preference about the mix of clubs that play in China. Even more, that Mr Gui is the only Chinese billionaire willing to commit to such venture.
Edit: one more, that Shanghai is the only option.

Remember I said asked you before 2023 and you said yes. This adventure started in August 2013. You reckon before 2023 all the things we have done can be easily replicated by someone else in another city within 5 years? That's the time frame I'm talking about not the next 25 or 50 years.

But basically, that only us are capable of developing the contacts and acquire the resources to play football in China.
- We invited 8 wealthy individuals - potato farmers fro Guangzhou - to watch our game, but they all said nice game, but not interested. Mr Gui took up an immediate interest and saw a massive opportunity to link in his business investments into the community he lived in, with the one he was going to invest in. If Mr Gui wasn't interested in buying S. Kidman & Co. he probably wouldn't have attended that game in Rd 23 2015. He did and we have become big winners out of that bit of serendipity.

That Mr Gui has a preference about the mix of clubs that play in China.
- I never said Mr Gui has any preference, but he has stated that he wants the game to grow in China and he isnt going to cut Port out of opportunities when its only 1 or 2 games a year. Sure if he is prepared to fund 12 games a year in China, then we are only going to get 2 of those games and that's all we can handle and that's all we would want to handle.

Even more, that Mr Gui is the only Chinese billionaire willing to commit to such venture.
- Do you reckon anyone is interested within the next 5 years given the ground work and difficulty and that the AFL only see this as a game a year at the moment and have to be convinced for given the PR.

Sure Jack Ma of Alibaba could do it, but he is interested in Rugby and is prepared to invest $100m into Chinese Rugby over the next decade. But I don't see him working hard to get one of the Oz Super rugby teams playing in Hangzhou or one of the Newcastle sporting teams playing sport there. He did donate $20m USD to the University of Newcastle because of the relationship he struck up with the late Ken Morley and his family from the early 1980's when he was a teenager and they met in Hangzhou. But he hasn't talked about bringing Australian sports to China

Edit: one more, that Shanghai is the only option
- No Shanghai isnt the only option. We tried Guangzhou but we couldnt find anyone who tried to take this up. Hell we werent even looking to take a game to Guangzhou when we invited the potato farmers to the GWS game in 2015 a few games before the Freo one Mr Gui attended.

In 2040 there could be 5 or 6 teams playing games in China. No problem. No big deal. * I have said many times Gold Coast should go to Schenzen because that's where their technology partner Huawei is and try and replicate what we are doing there. I told Lockhart Road my theory 18 months ago and he said we dont want them doing that because we were doing work in Guandong with South China AFL stuff, but I'm sure he has changed his mind because he sees the benefit of the GC doing a lot of hard yards in China being beneficial to us and Mr Gui.

The CEO of Huawei probably isnt going to be as invested in doing for the Suns what the owner of Shanghai CRED is whith Port. The old management vs ownership differential.

But this pants wetting that we are going to be cut out completely and the AFL get rid of us in the short to medium term ie 5 years is nonsensical. The AFL arent prepared to commit to more than a year at a time at the moment, because they know this has huge risks and currently limited constraints, but they know if things are done right there is long term pay off. No different to the NBA but that long term payoff for the NBA was over 20 years and involved TV rights for a game that already had a 50 year history of being played in the country before NBA Commissioner David Stern decided to make a long term investment and give away TV rights to the Chinese for bugger all.

Ask yourself this basic question, which other billionaire around the world, the last 30 years has decided to go to another country and get a professional sports team from that country, to go and play a competitive game for premiership points back in his home country, and fund them to not only play the game, but to develop the game back in his home city and home country as his long term gift??

I cant think of another one and you reckon another Mr Gui is going to suddenly appear? We have lucked out massively in finding Mr Gui. China might have 850 official billionaires but I'll put a lazy $100 on none of them ever doing a Mr Gui with another oz sporting team.

Billionaires like Abramovich or Mikhail Prokhorov of the Brooklyn Nets buy teams to get their money out of the country and to buy influence and make a profit. The Robert Kraft's of this world go and buy teams to make money from those teams. What Mr Gui has done, isnt buying a team, but is building a bridge between 2 nations. That's the difference. Which other wealthy Chinese is thinking like that?
 
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Oh and because we didn't want to let RussellEbertHandball down we did ride the subway to the fake markets. The organised chaos of the subway system at peak hour was a sight to behold as were the markets. The Little Warrior was in her element bartering with sellers. We know they're scamming us and they know we know so it is all done with great spirit and good humour. Picked up a Samsonite duffel bag, Under Armor shoes and Jimmy Choo handbag for a pittance :D

GranFormaggi and I decided to go and have a look at some of the fake places, we saw some “adibas” and “nikie” shoes and had a bit of a laugh. Had one blokecome up to us and I said I had no money, the response was “I give to you for free”.

You can see the gear on some of the locals. We did have a sfellow on the way to the game when, on the metro, a young woman had a skirt on that read “be ture to yourself”.
 
At work on my phone so I have to keep it short. But basically, that only us are capable of developing the contacts and acquire the resources to play football in China. That Mr Gui has a preference about the mix of clubs that play in China. Even more, that Mr Gui is the only Chinese billionaire willing to commit to such venture.
Edit: one more, that Shanghai is the only option.
REH’s ‘assumptions’ are based on what has happened up to this point and are thus correct.
Of course another club or clubs, even Dave Stevenson at AFL House, could start to demonstrate the required China nous and connections in a land where ‘connections’ (guan xi) are the oxygen of business. Gold Coast are perhaps trying to do so now, but you can feel the pain and embarrassment they have suffered ... very publicly suffered.
I realise you are playing devil’s advocate El Zorro and as a fellow non yes man I encourage you to keep it up.
The Club needs to be constantly questioned - one of the points I intend to make in the paper / new thread I am working on.
 
Oh and because we didn't want to let RussellEbertHandball down we did ride the subway to the fake markets. The organised chaos of the subway system at peak hour was a sight to behold as were the markets. The Little Warrior was in her element bartering with sellers. We know they're scamming us and they know we know so it is all done with great spirit and good humour. Picked up a Samsonite duffel bag, Under Armor shoes and Jimmy Choo handbag for a pittance :D

What will really blow your mind is that there are fakes that look fake that they have on display, and then there are the fakes that you have to ask for that they have to hide because you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference unless you had both side by side.
 
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