Certified Legendary Thread China History in the Making

[RussellEbertHandball]

It won't happen overnight but in the long run it will happen imo. Generations from now, people will look back and see us as barbarians for our insatiable slaughter of animals. We're currently in the midst of what some would describe as the greatest genocide of the animal kingdom in recorded history.

We're already seeing the next generation trend towards being vegetarian/vegan and they're not limited by lack of resources, it's by choice. The rest will, in time, have options to satisfy their hunger for meat.

First it will be mince meat replacements, i.e. burger meat - taste will be indistinguishable from the real thing. Then we'll get better at it, eventually mimicking prime cuts and different species (chicken turkey, goat, lamb). Chicken eggs will be lab grown, milk will be synthetic, etc.

*Disclosure - I'm not vegetarian or vegan, I enjoy meat and meat products. I will make the transition to synthetics if a viable option exists.

To bring it back to China, the growing appetite for meat and meat products in China is the result of improved economic prosperity. Eating meat is a sign of wealth in a developing country. The only way to feed an extra 1+ billion Chinese red meat over the long term is down the synthetic path, there simply isn't enough land to feed the number of people that will inhabit the earth in 50 years time.

If China wants to eat more cow meat, it will happen, and the numbers are enormous and therefore the impact via methane will be huge. Its why Mr Gui was so keen to buy into the Kidman properties, he had 3 or 4 cracks before he succeeded and has bought 3 (maybe 4) large properties in WA.

Around 2000 I read an article that talked about the Chinese leadership wanting to improve the access to food the Chinese people have, both quality and quantity. One of the goals was to increase egg consumption from 1 per day per person to 2. The article stated the amount of wheat needed to achieve this goal of one extra egg, would mean using more than all the wheat grown in Oz each year to feed the chooks . I remember being totally stunned by that statement and thought what if 3/4 of their population have Oz consumption levels and not just in food but all consumer goods. The resources needed will cause massive changes in the world economy. Nearly 20 years later we have seen the effects.

 

[GremioPower]

It won't happen overnight but in the long run it will happen imo. Generations from now, people will look back and see us as barbarians for our insatiable slaughter of animals. We're currently in the midst of what some would describe as the greatest genocide of the animal kingdom in recorded history.

We're already seeing the next generation trend towards being vegetarian/vegan and they're not limited by lack of resources, it's by choice. The rest will, in time, have options to satisfy their hunger for meat.

First it will be mince meat replacements, i.e. burger meat - taste will be indistinguishable from the real thing. Then we'll get better at it, eventually mimicking prime cuts and different species (chicken turkey, goat, lamb). Chicken eggs will be lab grown, milk will be synthetic, etc.

*Disclosure - I'm not vegetarian or vegan, I enjoy meat and meat products. I will make the transition to synthetics if a viable option exists.

To bring it back to China, the growing appetite for meat and meat products in China is the result of improved economic prosperity. Eating meat is a sign of wealth in a developing country. The only way to feed an extra 1+ billion Chinese red meat over the long term is down the synthetic path, there simply isn't enough land to feed the number of people that will inhabit the earth in 50 years time.

 

[Forzaport]

If China wants to eat more cow meat, it will happen, and the numbers are enormous and therefore the impact via methane will be huge. Its why Mr Gui was so keen to buy into the Kidman properties, he had 3 or 4 cracks before he succeeded and has bought 3 (maybe 4) large properties in WA.

Around 2000 I read an article that talked about the Chinese leadership wanting to improve the access to food the Chinese people have, both quality and quantity. One of he goals was to increase egg consumption from 1 per day per person to 2. The article stated the amount of wheat needed to achieve this goal of one extra egg, would mean using more than all the wheat grown in Oz each year to feed the chooks . I remember being totally stunned by that statement and thought what if 3/4 of their population have Oz consumption levels and not just in food but all consumer goods. The resources needed will cause massive changes in the world economy. Nearly 20 years later we have seen the effects.

Yep, China will need loads of farming land, more than there is on the planet. Funnily enough, chickens are relatively cheap to feed and house, 1 tonne of chicken meat requires ~1 tonne of grain. Cows though are 6x more expensive. We're going to need another food revolution to feed everyone. Efficiencies can be had on land but there's still a cap.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Yep, China will need loads of farming land, more than there is on the planet. Funnily enough, chickens are relatively cheap to feed and house, 1 tonne of chicken meat requires ~1 tonne of grain. Cows though are 6x more expensive. We're going to need another food revolution to feed everyone. Efficiencies can be had on land but there's still a cap.

New technology means they need land, not necessarily farming quality land. Look at Sundrop Farms glasshouses just out of Port Augusta. All the food is grown without soil, they have concrete floors, but each plant is grown in a bag with nutrients. And they use seawater, desalinate it using solar power, and use that water plus heat saved from desal process, to keep glasshouse warm in colder part of the season and nights.

 

[proman_x]

New technology means they need land, not necessarily farming quality land. Look at Sundrop Farms glasshouses just out of Port Augusta. All the food is grown without soil, they have concrete floors, but each plant is grown in a bag with nutrients. And they use seawater, desalinate it using solar power, and use that water plus heat saved from desal process, to keep glasshouse warm in colder part of the season and nights.

Hydroponics certainly has its place. Not overly sustainable though.

From what I have seen, China is pushing for much more organics and soil/eco remediation. Central government has spoken. The issue will be how this is policed. China has a BIG issue with people trusting there brands, even there own people. A push to improve farming areas is high on the agenda of the Government. Various reasons involved.


I was in Chengdu last month working on some Agricultural/Horticultural projects in Sichuan Province. Passing around PAFC hats to all those that would listen to me .


Listening to the radio earlier. KT talking about the possibility of us playing more then 1 game a year there. Interesting times ahead, growing the pie with more interest but hopefully us guiding the ship with our Chinese partners.

 

[Lockhart Road]

Hydroponics certainly has its place. Not overly sustainable though.

From what I have seen, China is pushing for much more organics and soil/eco remediation. Central government has spoken. The issue will be how this is policed. China has a BIG issue with people trusting there brands, even there own people. A push to improve farming areas is high on the agenda of the Government. Various reasons involved.


I was in Chengdu last month working on some Agricultural/Horticultural projects in Sichuan Province. Passing around PAFC hats to all those that would listen to me .


Listening to the radio earlier. KT talking about the possibility of us playing more then 1 game a year there. Interesting times ahead, growing the pie with more interest but hopefully us guiding the ship with our Chinese partners.

Chengdu?
So you are the culprit.

 

[proman_x]

Chengdu?
So you are the culprit.

Only if it's that good culprit. Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean

 

[Full Credit]

I'm sure this is gonna win me a lot of friends around here, but I'd be more than happy for the AFL to take this little venture off our hands. I have been really hesitant to post my thoughts on this but looking at KT's press conference and hearing that we may be looking to play two games now has finally spurred me into action. Yes I have read this thread.

1. Can we really call it a revenue stream if any money we are making goes straight back into running costs, which we're not even breaking even on? The argument that China is crucial to our survival going forward also seems a complete furphy, I'm no Kochie fan but the bald breakfast buffoon to his credit managed to secure us a major sponsor in Renault after we had won about three games in the preceding decade. Hell, if shittruck clubs like Carlton and St. Kilda can manage to do it, I'm sure as hell we can without completely selling our souls out. Yes Renault has run out now and we're still looking for a second major but surely China should have taken care of that by now if it was an actual viable solution?

2. When did our job as a club go from winning premierships to fostering trade and diplomatic relations with one of the most oppressive and authoritarian regimes of the last 50 years? Seriously, leave that stuff alone, shudder to think what else Jiangwan Stadium has been used for in the last quarter century or so. Just focus on the footy *en.

3. Grow the game? Again not really our job. Play the game well and it will grow itself. Also who cares if it doesn't? Does anyone in China besides fat billionaires looking to schmooze with other fat billionaires actually give a s**t? Spin it all you want but certainly doesn't look like it. 9000 people comprised of 50% tourists and expats in our second year tells a far greater story than the official line about everyone being off getting drinks or exchanging LinkedIn requests under the marquee. Can bet you to a tee our players don't, read in between the lines of all their instagram posts and stories, I'm sure they all loved the explosive bumwee's and newfound smokers lungs after dining on river potatoes and breathing in exhaust fumes for a week.

I'm going to duck for cover now but please educate me on what I've been missing. Also kamry lurkers * off, if you wanna talk about oppressive regimes who specialise in propaganda and whose subjects look to scurry away from at the first possible opportunity, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

 

[TheFVK]

I'm sure this is gonna win me a lot of friends around here, but I'd be more than happy for the AFL to take this little venture off our hands. I have been really hesitant to post my thoughts on this but looking at KT's press conference and hearing that we may be looking to play two games now has finally spurred me into action. Yes I have read this thread.

1. Can we really call it a revenue stream if any money we are making goes straight back into running costs, which we're not even breaking even on? The argument that China is crucial to our survival going forward also seems a complete furphy, I'm no Kochie fan but the bald breakfast buffoon to his credit managed to secure us a major sponsor in Renault after we had won about three games in the preceding decade. Hell, if shittruck clubs like Carlton and St. Kilda can manage to do it, I'm sure as hell we can without completely selling our souls out. Yes Renault has run out now and we're still looking for a second major but surely China should have taken care of that by now if it was an actual viable solution?

2. When did our job as a club go from winning premierships to fostering trade and diplomatic relations with one of the most oppressive and authoritarian regimes of the last 50 years? Seriously, leave that stuff alone, shudder to think what else Jiangwan Stadium has been used for in the last quarter century or so. Just focus on the footy ****en.

3. Grow the game? Again not really our job. Play the game well and it will grow itself. Also who cares if it doesn't? Does anyone in China besides fat billionaires looking to schmooze with other fat billionaires actually give a s**t? Spin it all you want but certainly doesn't look like it. 9000 people comprised of 50% tourists and expats in our second year tells a far greater story than the official line about everyone being off getting drinks or exchanging LinkedIn requests under the marquee. Can bet you to a tee our players don't, read in between the lines of all their instagram posts and stories, I'm sure they all loved the explosive bumwee's and newfound smokers lungs after dining on river potatoes and breathing in exhaust fumes for a week.

I'm going to duck for cover now but please educate me on what I've been missing. Also kamry lurkers **** off, if you wanna talk about oppressive regimes who specialise in propaganda and whose subjects look to scurry away from at the first possible opportunity, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

So if you're creating a start-up do you expect a return on day 1?

 

[Full Credit]

So if you're creating a start-up do you expect a return on day 1?

No, but it hasn't been one day it's been three years and the only people willing to invest $$$ have done so on the entirely conditional basis that we play in China.

 

[TeeKray]

I'm sure this is gonna win me a lot of friends around here, but I'd be more than happy for the AFL to take this little venture off our hands. I have been really hesitant to post my thoughts on this but looking at KT's press conference and hearing that we may be looking to play two games now has finally spurred me into action. Yes I have read this thread.

1. Can we really call it a revenue stream if any money we are making goes straight back into running costs, which we're not even breaking even on? The argument that China is crucial to our survival going forward also seems a complete furphy, I'm no Kochie fan but the bald breakfast buffoon to his credit managed to secure us a major sponsor in Renault after we had won about three games in the preceding decade. Hell, if shittruck clubs like Carlton and St. Kilda can manage to do it, I'm sure as hell we can without completely selling our souls out. Yes Renault has run out now and we're still looking for a second major but surely China should have taken care of that by now if it was an actual viable solution?

2. When did our job as a club go from winning premierships to fostering trade and diplomatic relations with one of the most oppressive and authoritarian regimes of the last 50 years? Seriously, leave that stuff alone, shudder to think what else Jiangwan Stadium has been used for in the last quarter century or so. Just focus on the footy ****en.

3. Grow the game? Again not really our job. Play the game well and it will grow itself. Also who cares if it doesn't? Does anyone in China besides fat billionaires looking to schmooze with other fat billionaires actually give a s**t? Spin it all you want but certainly doesn't look like it. 9000 people comprised of 50% tourists and expats in our second year tells a far greater story than the official line about everyone being off getting drinks or exchanging LinkedIn requests under the marquee. Can bet you to a tee our players don't, read in between the lines of all their instagram posts and stories, I'm sure they all loved the explosive bumwee's and newfound smokers lungs after dining on river potatoes and breathing in exhaust fumes for a week.

I'm going to duck for cover now but please educate me on what I've been missing. Also kamry lurkers **** off, if you wanna talk about oppressive regimes who specialise in propaganda and whose subjects look to scurry away from at the first possible opportunity, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

Paging RussellEbertHandball and Lockhart Road

 

[Full Credit]

Paging RussellEbertHandball and Lockhart Road

Cheers, was going to go the tag but figured they would get to it sooner or later

 

[TheFVK]

No, but it hasn't been one day it's been three years and the only people willing to invest $$$ have done so on the entirely conditional basis that we play in China.

I'm no REH or LR but from my minimal understanding based on reading this thread alone I've seen us:

• Add 37 new commercial partners and $15 million of new revenue after 3 years
• Secure the mid-term viability of the project through a 5 year multimillion dollar extension with Gui Guojie
• Play 2 games in China, growing the Chinese national attendance at the second game from 30 to 50%
• Grow the community programs through China from 20 to 100 schools with plans for further expansion
• Set up a permanent office in Beijing with 6 full time dedicated staff
• Just play the most watched game of AFL football, ever, following deals with 3 FTA Chinese stations
• Just set up a joint venture between Port and Shanghai Cred which links small and mid-sized Chinese and Australian businesses through an e-shop registered in China.

Forgetting Chinese companies for a second, can you imagine how many Australian companies will be licking the ass of PAFC trying to take advantage of our concrete and established links to the biggest consumer market in the world?

What the club has achieved so far is astonishing, the fact that NFL / EPL clubs are contacting PAFC to discuss how we did it says it all. Walking away from it now that we've cracked the hardest part and are primed to start enjoying the fruits of our labour would be a mind-boggling decision.

 

[Full Credit]

Thanks for the reply. No longer on my computer so not sure if the multiquote is going to work but here goes.

Add 37 new commercial partners and $15 million of new revenue after 3 years

This isn't 'our' revenue as i understand it, it's commercial partners getting together to pool cash which must be spent on putting the game on, all in the name of self interest. We could be the Mount Barker FC for all they care. No game over there, no money.

Secure the mid-term viability of the project through a 5 year multimillion dollar extension with Gui Guojie

Again, not really our money to spend as we see fit.

Play 2 games in China, growing the Chinese national attendance at the second game from 30 to 50%

4500 out of 1.4 billion. Literally a drop in the ocean. If even .0001% took a passing interest we would be selling out 100,000 seat stadiums 10x over.

Grow the community programs through China from 20 to 100 schools with plans for further expansion

Cool, but surely we could do this without freighting the whole club over? Or better yet leave it to the AFL. Worst case scenario would hate to see our community programs closer to home become compromised although even i can see this is a dumb argument haha.

Just play the most watched game of AFL football, ever, following deals with 3 FTA Chinese stations

This is pretty cool, but why then is it not translating into ticket sales? Surely in a city of 24.5 million we could muster up 11,000 punters.

Just set up a joint venture between Port and Shanghai Cred which links small and mid-sized Chinese and Australian businesses through an e-shop registered in China.

So we essentially play a conduit role hoping to catch some of the scraps falling down our way. In this case why are we still operating at a loss? In what specific way has Gui's acquisition of cattle farms and sheep stations benefited us so far?

Forgetting Chinese companies for a second, can you imagine how many Australian companies will be licking the ass of PAFC trying to take advantage of our concrete and established links to the biggest consumer market in the world?

What the club has achieved so far is astonishing, the fact that NFL / EPL clubs are contacting PAFC to discuss how we did it says it all. Walking away from it now that we've cracked the hardest part and are primed to start enjoying the fruits of our labour would be a mind-boggling decision.

I guess it would be, heres hoping an arse licking and not an arse kicking starts happening sooner rather than later. I get it that we are playing the long game but is the reward going to be worth it for all the effort and risk?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[El Zorro]

I'm sure this is gonna win me a lot of friends around here, but I'd be more than happy for the AFL to take this little venture off our hands. I have been really hesitant to post my thoughts on this but looking at KT's press conference and hearing that we may be looking to play two games now has finally spurred me into action. Yes I have read this thread.

1. Can we really call it a revenue stream if any money we are making goes straight back into running costs, which we're not even breaking even on? The argument that China is crucial to our survival going forward also seems a complete furphy, I'm no Kochie fan but the bald breakfast buffoon to his credit managed to secure us a major sponsor in Renault after we had won about three games in the preceding decade. Hell, if shittruck clubs like Carlton and St. Kilda can manage to do it, I'm sure as hell we can without completely selling our souls out. Yes Renault has run out now and we're still looking for a second major but surely China should have taken care of that by now if it was an actual viable solution?

2. When did our job as a club go from winning premierships to fostering trade and diplomatic relations with one of the most oppressive and authoritarian regimes of the last 50 years? Seriously, leave that stuff alone, shudder to think what else Jiangwan Stadium has been used for in the last quarter century or so. Just focus on the footy ****en.

3. Grow the game? Again not really our job. Play the game well and it will grow itself. Also who cares if it doesn't? Does anyone in China besides fat billionaires looking to schmooze with other fat billionaires actually give a s**t? Spin it all you want but certainly doesn't look like it. 9000 people comprised of 50% tourists and expats in our second year tells a far greater story than the official line about everyone being off getting drinks or exchanging LinkedIn requests under the marquee. Can bet you to a tee our players don't, read in between the lines of all their instagram posts and stories, I'm sure they all loved the explosive bumwee's and newfound smokers lungs after dining on river potatoes and breathing in exhaust fumes for a week.

I'm going to duck for cover now but please educate me on what I've been missing. Also kamry lurkers **** off, if you wanna talk about oppressive regimes who specialise in propaganda and whose subjects look to scurry away from at the first possible opportunity, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

Great post to avatar correlation.

 

[Pappagallo]

I get it that we are playing the long game but is the reward going to be worth it for all the effort and risk?

It seems like a huge effort has gone into this but is it really all that risky? We’ve been practically breaking even off the bat, which is pretty impressive considering all the start up costs (which only need to be paid once e.g. refurbishing Jiangwan Stadium). If we’re not losing money then it’s a free hit at some serious long term gains.

 

[Full Credit]

It seems like a huge effort has gone into this but is it really all that risky? We’ve been practically breaking even off the bat, which is pretty impressive considering all the start up costs (which only need to be paid once e.g. refurbishing Jiangwan Stadium). If we’re not losing money then it’s a free hit at some serious long term gains.

At what cost though? Moving from one game a year to two to eventually being the trailblazing first club to pack up camp and move over there fulltime? I guess i just want to see some free money come in before i completely buy into the strategy.

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[Full Credit]

Great post to avatar correlation.

We're posturing and puffing our chests out for nothing except everyone else's amusement?

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[bomberclifford]

At what cost though? Moving from one game a year to two to eventually being the trailblazing first club to pack up camp and move over there fulltime? I guess i just want to see some free money come in before i completely buy into the strategy.

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The sheer fact that the entire thing has been self-funding from the start tells you how much potential there is for the exercise.

 

[raman]

Worst case scenario China ends up an ambitious failure. Not sure why you’d want to panic about that.

 

[Janus]

When Port Adelaide was admitted into the AFL, that preseason the club trained in shopping centre carparks and did meet and greets with hundreds of school kids during school holidays. Mark Williams said at the Hall of Fame dinner that it was that early work of getting out to areas that were outside of the Port Adelaide heartland that created a number of the fans that are full members today and go to games, even though at the time it wasn’t the best preparation for a season of football. It showed that Port was the club for the common man, rather than some velvet rope BDSM Hotel California franchise.

We should look at China the same way. You get your brand into the marketplace first and show that you have a point of difference to other competitors. There is no such thing as free money - the sponsors of every club are expecting a return on their investment in the form of new customers or retaining existing ones. And the bigger the China Strategy grows, the more investment will be made.

Don’t dismiss how badly the break down of Australia-China relations has affected us in this space. The fact that we are still able to get the game off the ground in such an environment is a testament to how much weight it is given among the people that matter in China.

Is it a corporate booze up? You’re ******* oath it is, and it’s those corporates that will pour money into the club in the long run. But the real work is in the schools...which is our new shopping centre car park.

 

[OneGreatClub]

We're posturing and puffing our chests out for nothing except everyone else's amusement?

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If the Vic government are desperately wanting in for one of their clubs and are willing to put up the big bucks, you can bet your bottom dollar that this is more than mere amusement.

 

[Chrizzt]

4500 out of 1.4 billion. Literally a drop in the ocean. If even .0001% took a passing interest we would be selling out 100,000 seat stadiums 10x over.

Nitpicking but 0.0001% of 1.4 billion is 1400.

 

[Chrizzt]

Don’t dismiss how badly the break down of Australia-China relations has affected us in this space. The fact that we are still able to get the game off the ground in such an environment is a testament to how much weight it is given among the people that matter in China.

Even moreso: the fact that China broke their ministerial visit freeze to allow Ciobo et al to attend the game further demonstrates the gravity of what we are involved in.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

At what cost though? Moving from one game a year to two to eventually being the trailblazing first club to pack up camp and move over there fulltime? I guess i just want to see some free money come in before i completely buy into the strategy.

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Why do you think state governments and other clubs are posturing to be involved?

To break even?

Or because they have a little foresight and enough business acumen to realise that if such an ambitious project can break even in year 1 then the sky is the potential limit in future years.

Worst case scenario, break even.

Best case, rivers of gold.

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