Certified Legendary Thread China History in the Making

OneGreatClub

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My point was slightly different but maybe not clear. We have done all the heavy lifting in China, yet every game we’ve played there has been the home game of an opposition club. We’ve been fortunate that our previous opponent in GC only reluctantly embraced it and didn’t capitalise on it. I’ve seen a lot more from St Kilda supported by the Vic government in marketing it from their perspective and taking more ownership of it. If we want to defend our turf here, we may need to look at making it our home game in future.


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I get your point but our hands are tied unless you have some money you can throw in to satisfy the SMA
 

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tribey

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KT confirmed we will break even as a minimum from the game (thanks Mr Gui, but that's not mentioned) and says almost certainly we will make money out of the whole China proposition from opportunity around the game, says - its now profitable for us.
I wish I could believe him.
 
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KT talking China after 8 minute mark in interview with Dwayne Russell. First 8 minutes talks about 2020 guernsey issue and then membership drop off and effect of co-captaincy. Then China between 8.00 and 10.55, before Dwayne has a 2nd crack at the PB guernsey issue and asks also about the 18 clubs CEO's meeting on Monday, Goodes doco, interaction between CEO's and the AFL and mentions AFLX, then talks AFLW and that 2022 or 2023 we probably will get a team.

"We won't talk a lot about" it ie China strategy - "focus on the footy." Secured long term agreements with AFL, St Kilda and Australian government to go with Shanghai CRED long term agreement.

Less Australians travelling - 4,000 this year compared to 6,000 in 2017. (Not sure if that is just Port supporters or all Australians). 9,500 tickets have been sold says it will be a sold out game. Pleased more Chinese will be going to the game.

17 new commercial partners involved in the game, all hospitality tickets sold, fan zone and comfort taken to another level this year.

KT confirmed we will break even as a minimum from the game (thanks Mr Gui, but that's not mentioned) and says almost certainly we will make money out of the whole China proposition from opportunity around the game, says - its now profitable for us.


https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=372704
Will have a listen to this and post a critique.

What you’ve written REH confirms the CEO has lost interest in China, has lost sight of the objective set six years ago - to make a lot of MONEY out of China.

He’s obsessed with the community aspect and to have it as his personal legacy, is over-committed to the community aspect and afraid to acknowledge that by this time our Club debt should have been cleared by China proceeds with plenty left over for a lot of other projects including his ambitious screwed-up Alberton Oval Precinct Redevelopment.

Reinforces why this Club increasingly drove me nuts over the years and led to me now being on the outer. I would not be able to stand being on the inner with this sort of selfish defeatism infesting the air.
 

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Will have a listen to this and post a critique.

What you’ve written REH confirms the CEO has lost interest in China, has lost sight of the objective set six years ago - to make a lot of MONEY out of China.

He’s obsessed with the community aspect and to have it as his personal legacy, is over-committed to the community aspect and afraid to acknowledge that by this time our Club debt should have been cleared by China proceeds with plenty left over for a lot of other projects including his ambitious screwed-up Alberton Oval Precinct Redevelopment.

Reinforces why this Club increasingly drove me nuts over the years and led to me now being on the outer. I would not be able to stand being on the inner with this sort of selfish defeatism infesting the air.
At least we have been winning ... oh wait
 
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Will have a listen to this and post a critique.

What you’ve written REH confirms the CEO has lost interest in China, has lost sight of the objective set six years ago - to make a lot of MONEY out of China.

He’s obsessed with the community aspect and to have it as his personal legacy, is over-committed to the community aspect and afraid to acknowledge that by this time our Club debt should have been cleared by China proceeds with plenty left over for a lot of other projects including his ambitious screwed-up Alberton Oval Precinct Redevelopment.

Reinforces why this Club increasingly drove me nuts over the years and led to me now being on the outer. I would not be able to stand being on the inner with this sort of selfish defeatism infesting the air.
Having now heard the two minutes or so KT spent doing his best not to say much about China - which is a semi directive from the Club board whilst the results are not there - I maintain the opinion I gave above. He is not, does not dare to be, serious about China ... not on a continuous 12-month basis, only on a once-a-year basis concentrated on the game at Jiangwan Stadium, despite what he tries to say to the contrary.

He mentions, unconvincingly, making a profit on China in general, not on just the game, then contradicts himself by saying that the profit will come from activities associated with the game. How can he separate the two? One does not exist without the other.

As for the ‘17 sponsors’ associated with the game / event, he does not clarify who landed those sponsors - the AFL, St. Kilda, or us? I want to know what our personnel are achieving for our Club in China, not have our successes if any with the commercial objective hidden as they are at present.

The quest for sponsorship is now a joint operation, I understand that. Koch uses ‘joint venture’ to describe the Club’s
co-operation with the AFL on and in China, but is he using the term generically or do we actually have a signed contract with the AFL? Is this ‘joint venture’ now extended to include the Saints, so that all three parties will share the spoils, and expenses, for the next three years?

There is erudite explanation needed, not waffle, to satisfy me as to the workability let alone profitability of the current and near-future set up.

I believe that the PAFC China Strategy is divided into two parts: 1) The annual Shanghai match / event underpinned by Mr. Gui who fell into the Club’s lap and will now be eyeing bigger things with the AFL as his future benefactor and face-maker, and 2) Community / Education / Power Footy programmes in Shanghai and a few other locations in China which all fall under ‘Engagement’ for which the Club’s security with signed-up long-term partners is opaque at best.

So, our CEO said nothing in two minutes to convince me that PAFC is in control of its own China Strategy any more, or intends to do anything new to achieve the profit that should be coming in by now - A$5,000,000 a year minimum, more reasonably: A$10,000,000 a year.

We don’t appear to have enough of a clue commercially.
We are however exhibiting something of a clue implementing the other half of the challenge: community, education, Power Footy and Sports Diplomacy, but aren’t making enough money out of it on its own, or using this ‘Engagement’ ticket smartly enough to achieve entry to sizeable continuous commercial opportunities / partners / sponsors.

All this could change, quickly and positively. We just need the right commercial personnel to come in, support him or her or them with a basic structure that works at both ends without flying back and forth all the time. When I say ‘we’ I mean the Port Adelaide Football Club.
 

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I get your point but our hands are tied unless you have some money you can throw in to satisfy the SMA
I’m sure we or the Crows could buy a home game from a smaller club to play at Adelaide Oval so the SMA still gets their pound of flesh from 22 H&A games. I would rather buy a home game from another side and play it at AO than in Shanghai. That way we would be beholden to no other club re: China and would be more committed (as well as saving Koch from who wears what jumper gaffs).

The more I read LR’s posts the more I believe that the club has lost its nerve on China and are now looking at partners to share the load (read spread the risk).


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Janus

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Having now heard the two minutes or so KT spent doing his best not to say much about China - which is a semi directive from the Club board whilst the results are not there - I maintain the opinion I gave above. He is not, does not dare to be, serious about China ... not on a continuous 12-month basis, only on a once-a-year basis concentrated on the game at Jiangwan Stadium, despite what he tries to say to the contrary.

He mentions, unconvincingly, making a profit on China in general, not on just the game, then contradicts himself by saying that the profit will come from activities associated with the game. How can he separate the two? One does not exist without the other.

As for the ‘17 sponsors’ associated with the game / event, he does not clarify who landed those sponsors - the AFL, St. Kilda, or us? I want to know what our personnel are achieving for our Club in China, not have our successes if any with the commercial objective hidden as they are at present.

The quest for sponsorship is now a joint operation, I understand that. Koch uses ‘joint venture’ to describe the Club’s
co-operation with the AFL on and in China, but is he using the term generically or do we actually have a signed contract with the AFL? Is this ‘joint venture’ now extended to include the Saints, so that all three parties will share the spoils, and expenses, for the next three years?

There is erudite explanation needed, not waffle, to satisfy me as to the workability let alone profitability of the current and near-future set up.

I believe that the PAFC China Strategy is divided into two parts: 1) The annual Shanghai match / event underpinned by Mr. Gui who fell into the Club’s lap and will now be eyeing bigger things with the AFL as his future benefactor and face-maker, and 2) Community / Education / Power Footy programmes in Shanghai and a few other locations in China which all fall under ‘Engagement’ for which the Club’s security with signed-up long-term partners is opaque at best.

So, our CEO said nothing in two minutes to convince me that PAFC is in control of its own China Strategy any more, or intends to do anything new to achieve the profit that should be coming in by now - A$5,000,000 a year minimum, more reasonably: A$10,000,000 a year.

We don’t appear to have enough of a clue commercially.
We are however exhibiting something of a clue implementing the other half of the challenge: community, education, Power Footy and Sports Diplomacy, but aren’t making enough money out of it on its own, or using this ‘Engagement’ ticket smartly enough to achieve entry to sizeable continuous commercial opportunities / partners / sponsors.

All this could change, quickly and positively. We just need the right commercial personnel to come in, support him or her or them with a basic structure that works at both ends without flying back and forth all the time. When I say ‘we’ I mean the Port Adelaide Football Club.
The issue is: who decides who the right commercial personnel are? If the club are looking at the problem with Western eyes then they will miss the nuances that someone with Chinese eyes would pick up in negotiations.

Every partnership the club has signed with Chinese businesses and organisations has evaporated into nothing because they are targeting the wrong people. They are looking to sell them instead of building relationships of mutual benefit. But they are also don’t know when it’s time to push a little...or a lot.

I hope they’ve realised by now they need experience and expertise that they simply don’t have and go and get it.
 

OneGreatClub

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Having now heard the two minutes or so KT spent doing his best not to say much about China - which is a semi directive from the Club board whilst the results are not there - I maintain the opinion I gave above. He is not, does not dare to be, serious about China ... not on a continuous 12-month basis, only on a once-a-year basis concentrated on the game at Jiangwan Stadium, despite what he tries to say to the contrary.

He mentions, unconvincingly, making a profit on China in general, not on just the game, then contradicts himself by saying that the profit will come from activities associated with the game. How can he separate the two? One does not exist without the other.

As for the ‘17 sponsors’ associated with the game / event, he does not clarify who landed those sponsors - the AFL, St. Kilda, or us? I want to know what our personnel are achieving for our Club in China, not have our successes if any with the commercial objective hidden as they are at present.

The quest for sponsorship is now a joint operation, I understand that. Koch uses ‘joint venture’ to describe the Club’s
co-operation with the AFL on and in China, but is he using the term generically or do we actually have a signed contract with the AFL? Is this ‘joint venture’ now extended to include the Saints, so that all three parties will share the spoils, and expenses, for the next three years?

There is erudite explanation needed, not waffle, to satisfy me as to the workability let alone profitability of the current and near-future set up.

I believe that the PAFC China Strategy is divided into two parts: 1) The annual Shanghai match / event underpinned by Mr. Gui who fell into the Club’s lap and will now be eyeing bigger things with the AFL as his future benefactor and face-maker, and 2) Community / Education / Power Footy programmes in Shanghai and a few other locations in China which all fall under ‘Engagement’ for which the Club’s security with signed-up long-term partners is opaque at best.

So, our CEO said nothing in two minutes to convince me that PAFC is in control of its own China Strategy any more, or intends to do anything new to achieve the profit that should be coming in by now - A$5,000,000 a year minimum, more reasonably: A$10,000,000 a year.

We don’t appear to have enough of a clue commercially.
We are however exhibiting something of a clue implementing the other half of the challenge: community, education, Power Footy and Sports Diplomacy, but aren’t making enough money out of it on its own, or using this ‘Engagement’ ticket smartly enough to achieve entry to sizeable continuous commercial opportunities / partners / sponsors.

All this could change, quickly and positively. We just need the right commercial personnel to come in, support him or her or them with a basic structure that works at both ends without flying back and forth all the time. When I say ‘we’ I mean the Port Adelaide Football Club.
This is sad, frustrating, annoying, disappointing.
 
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The issue is: who decides who the right commercial personnel are? If the club are looking at the problem with Western eyes then they will miss the nuances that someone with Chinese eyes would pick up in negotiations.

Every partnership the club has signed with Chinese businesses and organisations has evaporated into nothing because they are targeting the wrong people. They are looking to sell them instead of building relationships of mutual benefit. But they are also don’t know when it’s time to push a little...or a lot.

I hope they’ve realised by now they need experience and expertise that they simply don’t have and go and get it.
The prevailing attitude at executive and board level will ensure that the right commercial personnel are not identified let alone recruited.
 

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The prevailing attitude at executive and board level will ensure that the right commercial personnel are not identified let alone recruited.
LR do you remember the job Port advertised for a China executive, in 2016 or 2017, with the list of skills required if met, would probably get paid 2 or 3 times what KT gets paid. I did a search in this thread but can't find it. I remember you asked about it. Am curious to find it to see the listed requirements and see if any of them have been filled.

I did a google search to find it, couldn't, but found this Australian Chamber of Commerce Shanghai ad in January for a General Manager and Business Development Manager AFL China. Any idea what this entails? Doing the stuff we should be doing?

http://www.austchamshanghai.com/en/...er-and-business-development-manager-afl-china
 
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LR do you remember the job Port advertised for a China executive, in 2016 or 2017, with the list of skills required if met, would probably get paid 2 or 3 times what KT gets paid. I did a search in this thread but can't find it. I remember you asked about it. Am curious to find it to see the listed requirements and see if any of them have been filled.

I did a google search to find it, couldn't, but found this Australian Chamber of Commerce Shanghai ad in January for a General Manager and Business Development Manager AFL China. Any idea what this entails? Doing the stuff we should be doing?

http://www.austchamshanghai.com/en/...er-and-business-development-manager-afl-china
Damien McDowell was recruited by PAFC in late 2016, closed Cathay Pacific in his first month, revealed himself as a threat to incumbents like Andrew Hunter and Richard Kelly, and was squeezed out thereafter. He left Alberton a year ago to be the Head of Commercial at Collingwood.

The advertisement you mention was studied closely by my local colleague and myself, and we agreed that if we pooled our qualifications after 75 years combined working up here we would not make it past the application stage.

Any connection with AustCham in Shanghai or Hong Kong, although initiated by us a few years ago, would now be under the direction of the AFL.
 

Janus

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Damien McDowell was recruited by PAFC in late 2016, closed Cathay Pacific in his first month, revealed himself as a threat to incumbents like Andrew Hunter and Richard Kelly, and was squeezed out thereafter. He left Alberton a year ago to be the Head of Commercial at Collingwood.

The advertisement you mention was studied closely by my local colleague and myself, and we agreed that if we pooled our qualifications after 75 years combined working up here we would not make it past the application stage.

Any connection with AustCham in Shanghai or Hong Kong, although initiated by us a few years ago, would now be under the direction of the AFL.
I liked Damien. Like Claire, he seemed genuine.
 
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The advertisement you mention was studied closely by my local colleague and myself, and we agreed that if we pooled our qualifications after 75 years combined working up here we would not make it past the application stage.

Any connection with AustCham in Shanghai or Hong Kong, although initiated by us a few years ago, would now be under the direction of the AFL.
Firstly do you think that AFL China job cuts across what we are trying to do, or separate imitative to do other things?

Secondly, its seems bizarre that with the help of a employment agency, I'm pretty sure one was involved, that's why I want to find the ad, that we went looking for someone with a really broad China experience, but ended up not getting anyone. I wonder what happened? Spooked by the cost of getting the person we wanted? Just didn't have the resources? Its two extremes it seems.
 
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Janus

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Firstly do you think that AFL China job cuts across what we are trying to do, or separate imitative to do other things?

Secondly, its seems bizarre that with the help of a employment agency, I'm pretty sure one was involved, that's why I want to find the ad, that we went looking for someone with a really broad China experience, but ended up not getting anyone. I wonder what happened? Spooked by the cost of getting the we wanted? Just didn't have the resources? Its two extremes it seems.
Probably realised they needed a committee and not just one person to do the role that they were trying to fill.
 
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Firstly do you think that AFL China job cuts across what we are trying to do, or separate imitative to do other things?

Secondly, its seems bizarre that with the help of a employment agency, I'm pretty sure one was involved, that's why I want to find the ad, that we went looking for someone with a really broad China experience, but ended up not getting anyone. I wonder what happened? Spooked by the cost of getting the person we wanted? Just didn't have the resources? Its two extremes it seems.
‘Help’ of an employment agency ... in Adelaide? ... in Australia? They knew less about what they were doing than the Club, under the direction of the CEO, Keith Too Casual Thomas. What they knew how to do was submit their fee note.

It was not a case of just finding someone for the job. The CEO found Damien McDowell and was bloody proud of himself for doing so ... for a while. It was a case of the environment the new recruit found himself in at postcode 5014 / 5015. It was a case of being kept off the turf of others like Hunter and Kelly, disallowed for god sake to set foot in China itself on his own, a place he had experience in, for fear he would show up those he reported to.

This sounds horrendous. It is nevertheless true. And it’s the fault of the CEO who for too long has guarded his China turf, hugged it so close, so jealously, it has inevitably become the AFL’s China turf.
 

OneGreatClub

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My god, every time I read this thread I feel more and more deflated.
All this work for perhaps a small profit and being stuck running Auskick in China.
I always thought, give them time, it might take a few years, but gee progress has been stagnant.
After next year of glory KT Koch and Ken will probably nick off and leave the mess for someone else to try to rescue or just cut their losses and get out.
Meanwhile Oak are becoming dissatisfied too.
We could be moved to Tassie in no time at this rate.
 
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My god, every time I read this thread I feel more and more deflated.
All this work for perhaps a small profit and being stuck running Auskick in China.
I always thought, give them time, it might take a few years, but gee progress has been stagnant.
After next year of glory KT Koch and Ken will probably nick off and leave the mess for someone else to try to rescue or just cut their losses and get out.
Meanwhile Oak are becoming dissatisfied too.
We could be moved to Tassie in no time at this rate.
Mate, I absolutely admire your dedication to the Cause and your fascination with the Club getting into, and staying in, China. Do not worry, I will make sure it all works out. Certain personages will hate me even more than they do now, but it is going to work out. That’s a promise I make on the hallowed memory of Rawbone Aussie Bob Hawke.
 

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I follow this thread and am always interested to read the new posts that appear (particularly from LR and REH).
I think the sad thing is the fact the club doesn’t highlight what they are doing enough.
Like it or not people need/want to see some sort of results whether it is additional sponsors or a line in the financials saying China has made us x amount of dollars.
I’m not expecting to see a mountain of cash straight away but I would love to see real evidence of progress.
Unfortunately it seems the Club either can’t or won’t do this.
Like a lot of things recently it seems as though they are happy to keep Members in the dark.


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OneGreatClub

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Mate, I absolutely admire your dedication to the Cause and your fascination with the Club getting into, and staying in, China. Do not worry, I will make sure it all works out. Certain personages will hate me even more than they do now, but it is going to work out. That’s a promise I make on the hallowed memory of Rawbone Aussie Bob Hawke.
What do you make of George Fiacci’s comments on PortFan Radio ?
He says that the political climate in China plus China Australia relations has changed since we started our China initiative a few years back, meaning we are finding it harder to get what we had hoped for out of the strategy.
That the China thing is just too big for the club to handlle structurally and expertise/ contacts wise .
That the. AFL is better equipped to manage it going forwards, dealing with the political aspects etc ( as compared to little old suburban club Port Adelaide I guess ) Also that the China stuff need to be seperated out of the footy stuff and PAFC needs to get back to focusing on footy on field success instead.
At least that is my take on his comments.
Sounds ominous.
What do you make of his comments?
Do you reckon just his opinion or the opinion of the board?

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podca...robin-to-the-rock/id987439695?i=1000437048392
 
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What do you make of George Fiacci’s comments on PortFan Radio ?
He says that the political climate in China plus China Australia relations has changed since we started our China initiative a few years back, meaning we are finding it harder to get what we had hoped for out of the strategy.
That the China thing is just too big for the club to handlle structurally and expertise/ contacts wise .
That the. AFL is better equipped to manage it going forwards, dealing with the political aspects etc ( as compared to little old suburban club Port Adelaide I guess ) Also that the China stuff need to be seperated out of the footy stuff and PAFC needs to get back to focusing on footy on field success instead.
At least that is my take on his comments.
Sounds ominous.
What do you make of his comments?
Do you reckon just his opinion or the opinion of the board?

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podca...robin-to-the-rock/id987439695?i=1000437048392
Sounds like a cop out to me, when you aren't prepared to put people on the ground in China and try a fly in fly out approach.

Sure the game is bloody tough and challenges us resource wise, but the commercial opportunities are there of finding a large sponsor and proper commercial partners, not just community partners, has been stuffed up because they dont listen to China experts and put a GM Commercial China on the ground in China.
 

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What do you make of George Fiacci’s comments on PortFan Radio ?
He says that the political climate in China plus China Australia relations has changed since we started our China initiative a few years back, meaning we are finding it harder to get what we had hoped for out of the strategy.
That the China thing is just too big for the club to handlle structurally and expertise/ contacts wise .
That the. AFL is better equipped to manage it going forwards, dealing with the political aspects etc ( as compared to little old suburban club Port Adelaide I guess ) Also that the China stuff need to be seperated out of the footy stuff and PAFC needs to get back to focusing on footy on field success instead.
At least that is my take on his comments.
Sounds ominous.
What do you make of his comments?
Do you reckon just his opinion or the opinion of the board?

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podca...robin-to-the-rock/id987439695?i=1000437048392
What experience and resources does the AFL have with Chinese politics?

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