Politics China Trade War

[Jello_B]

In terms of iron ore, to what extent are our mines Australian owned/to what extent do they support Australian jobs? I wouldn't imagine that there'd be loads of jobs as it seems more capital intensive but is that capital largely ours or not?

Lots of jobs mate. We are currently involved in a project that is building a multi-thousand person camp in Roxby, and that will be used just for a maintenance program initially. Go to Perth Airport Monday around 5am if you want a feel for the size of the fluoro army.

 

[Jello_B]

Mining in its entirety employs around 2% of the Australian workforce, although you'd expect there are flow-on effects from that employment given we have such a demand / services based economy.

Significant flow on yes.

 

[Sainteric]

If it was Labor putting your job at risk you would be one of the loudest ones bleating like a stuck pig.

Labor always put your job at risk

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Its not just a trade war. That part actually isnt really important. This is an ideology war.

Lol, there is no ideology about this

We haven't given two *s that china is a dictatorship for the past decade, why now?

This is about who has the biggest dick in the global sandbox. That's it

we are hardcore team trump, and just like Yemen, we are a safe place for the Chinese to drop their trade war bombs as a message to other us puppy wannabes

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Of course, the good ole "what it does matter who's in power, it needs to be done"..,until Labor does something that 'needs to be done' (Carbon Tax, NBN, NDIS etc etc etc etc).

You know it will require the rest of the world to participate, not just Australia? Who is in charge of all those other nations, does the LNP run the whole lot? I don't care who's in power and where, I'd like to see it done. We're not talking about domestic issues such as those you've mentioned, they've got their own threads for you to piss and moan in, why don't you head off there.

 

[Number37]

You know it will require the rest of the world to participate, not just Australia? Who is in charge of all those other nations, does the LNP run the whole lot? I don't care who's in power and where, I'd like to see it done. We're not talking about domestic issues such as those you've mentioned, they've got their own threads for you to piss and moan in, why don't you head off there.

So lemme get this straight. People are pissed that China caused a virus or 3, the latest of which caused economic carnage around the world....and the answer is to start a war (trade/words) with China, which will cause a economic carnage around the world....
Hmmm...what you are dingbats smoking?
Game theory tells us that that doesn't end well for anyone that isn't China.
Brinkmanship results in an even worse outcome for anyone that isn't China.

I'm all for holding China to account but I'm also a realist...what that will mean economically, for anyone that takes them on, is economic carnage.

 

[Seeds]

Lol, there is no ideology about this

We haven't given two fu**s that china is a dictatorship for the past decade, why now?

This is about who has the biggest dick in the global sandbox. That's it

we are hardcore team trump, and just like Yemen, we are a safe place for the Chinese to drop their trade war bombs as a message to other us puppy wannabes

F*** me. Can we stop thinking down partisan lines ffs. Australias issues with china started before trump was even in power. There have been major tensions simmering below the attention of the mainstream media between australia and china since Turnball came to power. Before actually but the Turnball government is what kicked them up a notch.

do you know which western countries has the biggest tension with china? USA Is not number 1. In fact its the left leaning governments of Sweden and Canada. For human rights, kidnapping of citizens and technological theft issues.

if Biden comes to power than the hostility between the USA and China will probably increase as the USA will also start focusing on human rights abuses along with the other issues with technology and trade which are usually issues that concern the left. Not the right.

the problem of China's rise under Xi is not a partisan one. Its an existential threat to western life. Its the enemy of all of us. China under Xi is literally recreating the novel 1984 and they want to spread their approach to the rest of the world.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

F*** me. Can we stop thinking down partisan lines ffs. Australias issues with china started before trump was even in power. There have been major tensions simmering below the attention of the mainstream media between australia and china since Turnball came to power. Before actually but the Turnball government is what kicked them up a notch.

lol, yet with all those major tensions we have allowed massive trade with china, massive numbers of chinese students in australia, massive investment of chinese money in australia, yet we had huge issues with them

bullshit. even now, we dont give a *. look at how little we did to support the protests in HK, the persecutions in Tibet and Xinjiang, and the SFA support to Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia/Philippines in the SCS.

why is it now we have an issue? its because daddy called, and scomo did as he was told

 

[Ned_Flanders]

And BTW Seeds im not saying the status quo (splinters) was the way to go. As ive said here for some time, we have been trying to sit on both sides of this fence, and have been in complete denial about the pending USA/China conflict - and the inevitability we would be called out.

my preference has always been the third way - non-aligned. walk away from the USA defence treaty (they would never protect us, and treat us with contempt in defence procurement as we have seen with trump planning to reneg on construction sharing in the JSF, and of course the conga line of shitty second hand vessels weve bought over the years), and dont align with any new superpower bloc

work with asean and the other smaller pacific powers, and stick to what we do - trade.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

And BTW Seeds im not saying the status quo (splinters) was the way to go. As ive said here for some time, we have been trying to sit on both sides of this fence, and have been in complete denial about the pending USA/China conflict - and the inevitability we would be called out.

my preference has always been the third way - non-aligned. walk away from the USA defence treaty (they would never protect us, and treat us with contempt in defence procurement as we have seen with trump planning to reneg on construction sharing in the JSF, and of course the conga line of shitty second hand vessels weve bought over the years), and dont align with any new superpower bloc

work with asean and the other smaller pacific powers, and stick to what we do - trade.

Jeesus Christo some of you people are full of confirmation bias excrement. It's because there was a global pandemic/recession and Australia was in the best place health wise to push for an inquiry.
We are going to diversify anyway.
So proud to be Australian right now. This claim Australia is America's lap dog is juvenile.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Jeesus Christo some of you people are full of confirmation bias excrement. It's because there was a global pandemic/recession and Australia was in the best place health wise to push for an inquiry.
We are going to diversify anyway.
So proud to be Australian right now. This claim Australia is America's lap dog is juvenile.

dude i said this years ago - long before the pandemic

anyone with half a clue has seen this conflict coming between the usa and china, it was only a question of when, and when we would be called to pick a side

and we have been a lap dog since vietnam

 

[ExcitementMachine]

dude i said this years ago - long before the pandemic

anyone with half a clue has seen this conflict coming between the usa and china, it was only a question of when, and when we would be called to pick a side

and we have been a lap dog since vietnam

Yes Australia was always destined to be wedged between the US and China, however this is about the pandemic and the chinese pamchent for dining at wet markets and the ccps pamchent for covering up the inevitable creation for pandemics.

The comments from.frydenberg and Morrison have been neutral between the USA and China.
We have been smashed with our worst recession since the depression along with everyone else.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yes Australia was always destined to be wedged between the US and China, however this is about the pandemic and the chinese pamchent for dining at wet markets and the ccps pamchent for covering up the inevitable creation for pandemics.

The comments from.frydenberg and Morrison have been neutral between the USA and China.
We have been smashed with our worst recession since the depression along with everyone else.

this has nothing to do with the pandemic

it has to do with trump needing an enemy leading up to November, and Australia doing its part

 

[ExcitementMachine]

this has nothing to do with the pandemic

it has to do with trump needing an enemy leading up to November, and Australia doing its part

China is everyones enemy because of the pandemic. 100 plus countries signed up to it. Are they all trying to suck up to trump as well?
It has everything to do with the pandemic

 

[Ned_Flanders]

China is everyones enemy because of the pandemic. 100 plus countries signed up to it. Are they all trying to suck up to trump as well?
It has everything to do with the pandemic

100 countries signed up to an inpartial investigation

australia proposed an investigation into china, with investigators having the same powers as nuclear inspections. this wasnt what the 100 signed up for

 

[ExcitementMachine]

100 countries signed up to an inpartial investigation

australia proposed an investigation into china, with investigators having the same powers as nuclear inspections. this wasnt what the 100 signed up for

It got 30 countries signed up early alone and the agreement had China co opting at last minute with tail between legs. Everything to do with the pandemic.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It got 30 countries signed up early alone and the agreement had China co opting at last minute with tail between legs. Everything to do with the pandemic.

And it doesn't single out china as Australia wanted, or give inspectors unlimited power as Australia wanted

People want an investigation, not a witch-hunt

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

So lemme get this straight. People are pissed that China caused a virus or 3, the latest of which caused economic carnage around the world....and the answer is to start a war (trade/words) with China, which will cause a economic carnage around the world....
Hmmm...what you are dingbats smoking?
Game theory tells us that that doesn't end well for anyone that isn't China.
Brinkmanship results in an even worse outcome for anyone that isn't China.

I'm all for holding China to account but I'm also a realist...what that will mean economically, for anyone that takes them on, is economic carnage.

No if everyone holds firm. If everyone does then that doesn't end well for any country named China.

It's not anyone taking them on, it's EVERYONE taking them on.

 

[Number37]

No if everyone holds firm. If everyone does then that doesn't end well for any country named China.

It's not anyone taking them on, it's EVERYONE taking them one.

You don't know anything about Game Theory or brinkmanship, do you.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

You don't know anything about Game Theory or brinkmanship, do you.

Yeah, they don't work if other side throws the expected rule book out the window and says they're no longer going to participate.

 

[Seeds]

lol, yet with all those major tensions we have allowed massive trade with china, massive numbers of chinese students in australia, massive investment of chinese money in australia, yet we had huge issues with them

bullshit. even now, we dont give a fu**. look at how little we did to support the protests in HK, the persecutions in Tibet and Xinjiang, and the SFA support to Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia/Philippines in the SCS.

why is it now we have an issue? its because daddy called, and scomo did as he was told

Why does it matter what the reasons are? As long as the actions are right who cares. the ccp is an enemy of human rights and needs to be stopped until it learns to adopt a more humanitarian approach. An anti CCP momentum is now brewing. This might be our only chance. Support it.

ps. Dont confuse the chinese people with the ccp. there is nothing wrong with chinese students getting educated here in regards to human rights. They arent the enemy. In fact they are the victim of the CCP and bringing them here to learn might give them a different perspective.

My contacts tell me the US is strongly considering intervening in Hong Kong. They may be doing it for completely the wrong reasons but who cares. The problem is they havnt got enough support from the Europeans ironically and they wont do this alone. Discussions are happening trying to convince Europe that a strong defensive stance needs to be taken on Hong kong.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Why does it matter what the reasons are? As long as the actions are right who cares. the ccp is an enemy of human rights and needs to be stopped until it learns to adopt a more humanitarian approach. An anti CCP momentum is now brewing. This might be our only chance. Support it.

ps. Dont confuse the chinese people with the ccp. there is nothing wrong with chinese students getting educated here in regards to human rights. They arent the enemy. In fact they are the victim of the CCP and bringing them here to learn might give them a different perspective.

My contacts tell me the US is strongly considering intervening in Hong Kong. They may be doing it for completely the wrong reasons but who cares. The problem is they havnt got enough support from the Europeans ironically and they wont do this alone. Discussions are happening trying to convince Europe that a strong defensive stance needs to be taken on Hong kong.

This is about Chinese people. They are getting spat on, abused, intimidated, and that's just in Melbourne (buses are the place to avoid right now unfortunately if you're Chinese). The govt has also qualified it's support for people, with Dutton saying he has no issue with Chinese who migrated here in the 19th century.

And it's not about the CCP, because again, where were we on every other issue for the past 20 years?

Intervening in HK? If they land one US troop in HK, you know that means full scale war? If the USA cannot defeat the Taliban in 20 years, how long do you think it will take for them to defeat the CCP - when the Chinese population support them?

 

[ExcitementMachine]

This is about Chinese people. They are getting spat on, abused, intimidated, and that's just in Melbourne (buses are the place to avoid right now unfortunately if you're Chinese). The govt has also qualified it's support for people, with Dutton saying he has no issue with Chinese who migrated here in the 19th century.

And it's not about the CCP, because again, where were we on every other issue for the past 20 years?

Intervening in HK? If they land one US troop in HK, you know that means full scale war? If the USA cannot defeat the Taliban in 20 years, how long do you think it will take for them to defeat the CCP - when the Chinese population support them?

It is about the CCP, in the (very recent) past if you blocked Chinese people into Australia to protect our borders during a pandemic - fringes of either side would SCREAM 'RACIST'. The pandemic has brought CCP's actions to a head - from their abassodor to Sweden - 'We treat our friends with fine wine our enemies with guns', to their ambassador in Germany and France publicly gunning for kudo's for China's handling of pandemic, to their ambassador here in this country - making threats of coercion due to inquiry.

From - influence into our political system - Sam Dastayari.
To - Shaoquette Moselmate also being paid up by the CCP spreading propoganda that Australia is racist (how ironic) that we are obsolete 'White Scum'.

During the pandemic - They covered up the initial outbreak allowing it to spread worldwide causing over 300,000 deaths and a global recession.
They lied about human to human transmission.
They lied about the severity.
The CCP then asked Chinese companies to ship our medical supplies back to China meaning when it did spread we were under resourced.
The trade war due to inquiry.

It's not about what has happened overseas, out governments and uni's have been wrong to ignore the injustices committed by China - and you are right CHina has been a pariah state and they are great injustices, bu it's that now, through a pandemic all of the above has also happened - and it's brought it alllllll to a head.

It's poosible for a world war - I dare say a lot more resources and nations will be a part of it in the event of this happening.
China doesn't have many friends - it's also hated by Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, not to mention the might of the US, then Australia, Canada, UK, the EU, Nato and the rest of the world. Their hubris would entail a beating.

 

[Jello_B]

And BTW Seeds im not saying the status quo (splinters) was the way to go. As ive said here for some time, we have been trying to sit on both sides of this fence, and have been in complete denial about the pending USA/China conflict - and the inevitability we would be called out.

my preference has always been the third way - non-aligned. walk away from the USA defence treaty (they would never protect us, and treat us with contempt in defence procurement as we have seen with trump planning to reneg on construction sharing in the JSF, and of course the conga line of shitty second hand vessels weve bought over the years), and dont align with any new superpower bloc

work with asean and the other smaller pacific powers, and stick to what we do - trade.

Do a quick ISO31000 on this and look at the consequences of us not retaining the US defence relationship. You may be correct, and the US may not come to our aid for a real threat. You may be incorrect, and the reason we have enjoyed the livelihood we have is partly due to our relationship with the US. Would you take the risk of disconnecting from the US when some of the consequences are extremely intolerable. And why would we take the risk, because one US president talks a lot of smack, and some of our export industries are being bullied by China.
You may be right, what if you are not?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It is about the CCP, in the (very recent) past if you blocked Chinese people into Australia to protect our borders during a pandemic - fringes of either side would SCREAM 'RACIST'. The pandemic has brought CCP's actions to a head - from their abassodor to Sweden - 'We treat our friends with fine wine our enemies with guns', to their ambassador in Germany and France publicly gunning for kudo's for China's handling of pandemic, to their ambassador here in this country - making threats of coercion due to inquiry.

From - influence into our political system - Sam Dastayari.
To - Shaoquette Moselmate also being paid up by the CCP spreading propoganda that Australia is racist (how ironic) that we are obsolete 'White Scum'.

During the pandemic - They covered up the initial outbreak allowing it to spread worldwide causing over 300,000 deaths and a global recession.
They lied about human to human transmission.
They lied about the severity.
The CCP then asked Chinese companies to ship our medical supplies back to China meaning when it did spread we were under resourced.
The trade war due to inquiry.

It's not about what has happened overseas, out governments and uni's have been wrong to ignore the injustices committed by China - and you are right CHina has been a pariah state and they are great injustices, bu it's that now, through a pandemic all of the above has also happened - and it's brought it alllllll to a head.

It's poosible for a world war - I dare say a lot more resources and nations will be a part of it in the event of this happening.
China doesn't have many friends - it's also hated by Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, not to mention the might of the US, then Australia, Canada, UK, the EU, Nato and the rest of the world. Their hubris would entail a beating.

with you wanting a world war, i hope you know what price that will cost, it will go nuclear (one of the reasons noone was dumb enough to start one after 45)