Chocco Interview

[tropicaltiger]

Lol get real. Everyone takes criticism differently. Giving the old spary isnt necessarily the best way to convey a point. Its not about being tough or a pussy

gave him a colourful spray in a ressies 3/4T huddle for young ears and any of the general public within earshot... does a lot of good work at clubs at the start but burns all the bridges after a couple of years and leaves with a bit of a bad taste in mouths

 

[HumanMeatball]

Predictable direction this thread has turned

 

[Phar Ace]

Maybe, but begs the question, how did the blokes making the decisions down at our club ... Peggy, Benny and Damien ,,,, come to hire such an undermining and apparently 'past his expiry date' has been as Choco???
Should never been let in the joint if he was that poor, yet NONE OF US are allowed to question those three people's decisions because they are all doing such a brilliant job.

Whilst I largely agree, the football world knew Chocco was one part protagonist and one part teacher (yeah he had other bits but these are his main strengths used wisely). Our three wise 'men' knew this.

It's only a guess but I would suggest the Master / student roles that grew between Chocco and Dimma at Port, never quite flipped over happily at Richmond. If you've ever had to do that, you know it takes remarkable humility at times.

Chocco was not let go when he was unwell - he was given certain reduced responsibilities. Chocco's face said it all seeing him sit at ground level the past two seasons. It was kind of the Club and I for one thought it was a dignified approach - he still had something to give whilst being cared for. This stopped at the end of 2016

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Maybe, but begs the question, how did the blokes making the decisions down at our club ... Peggy, Benny and Damien ,,,, come to hire such an undermining and apparently 'past his expiry date' has been as Choco???
Should never been let in the joint if he was that poor, yet NONE OF US are allowed to question those three people's decisions because they are all doing such a brilliant job.

There is a difference in being critical on a certain issue and always looking for a angle to criticise the club or one particular person at the club.
The difference is having the ability to see good and bad not just look for the bad or alternatively always look for the good.
Plenty of good users on here who are considered good posters and who don't get caught up in the 'everything is shit x must be to be blamed ' or have rose coloured glasses.
The club made a terrible mistake after being pantsed in the first final under Hardwick . On field they become to predictable / over coached, which included the stupid idea of spread first and the move to deep forward entries. It meant we become over reliant on to few at the contest and to easy to defend in the forward line. Whilst off field the club got engrossed on following others with the idea of having a ex coach as an assistant .
A move I am yet to see be successfull and has often proven very disruptive with players gaining mixed messages and creating fractions within clubs ,choco was a clear example and it was reasonably well known during last season.
Vickery x 2 , have been another disruptive force within the club for some time, which many seem to not consider, who I am glad the club also pissed off.
Choco might be the greatest coach of all time , Vickery the 2017 / 2018 brownlow medalist and it wouldn't change my thinking .
They became to comfortable within RFC and we're spending more of their time having a negative disruptive impact on the club rather than positive.
Maybe they had grown tired of the place or maybe the were the cause ?

 

[ReaperX]

If chocco berated anyone its about ******* time. We have been pathetic for 30 years.

Maybe we should give some more pats on the back and more encouragement. Maybe thats what we need to keep everyone happy..

Get real you ****en pansys

That throwaway line of "we've been shit for X years" is so damn lazy.

Each year is a new year, and if that year is a failure, it's a failure by the people in charge during that year, and you hold those coaches/players to account for that. You don't hold the current people at the club accountable for the distant past, it's silly.

Regardless of our opinions about Hardwick, good/bad/neutral, we need to stop associating the failures of the 80's, 90's, and 00's with him or anybody else currently at the club, because they are completely separate eras and are not related to each other.

The RFC as a club has seen various administrations, coaching groups, and playing groups come through over the course of the past 30 years, that have been unsuccessful for various reasons. Those failures, whilst we feel them as supporters and find it easy to lump it all in as "RFC", are not the responsibility of the current administration, coaching group, or playing group.

The current RFC group has NOT "been pathetic for 30 years", we barely have anybody on our playing list that is even that old to begin with. The truth is, this current core group of players has been a relatively successful H&A side for the previous 3 years before 2016, but was not able to perform on the big stage of finals. Last year they had a dip in H&A form, and as a result of that, made some massive changes to key personnel both on AND off field.

Only time will tell if those changes bring about a change in fortunes, but all I'm asking is that we give this group of people a chance to see if they've learned anything from 2016 before we completely shit on them, and lump past failures from decades ago on their shoulders.

 

[Phar Ace]

Regardless of our opinions about Hardwick, good/bad/neutral, we need to stop associating the failures of the 80's, 90's, and 00's with him or anybody else currently at the club, because they are completely separate eras and are not related to each other.

Agree with that wholeheartedly. Dimma's coaching successes and failures are his own and should be view thet way.

The current RFC group has NOT "been pathetic for 30 years", we barely have anybody on our playing list that is even that old to begin with. The truth is, this current core group of players has been a relatively successful H&A side for the previous 3 years before 2016, but was not able to perform on the big stage of finals. Last year they had a dip in H&A form, and as a result of that, made some massive changes to key personnel both on AND off field.

I'm sorry I don't really buy our claimed success over those three finals years. It was a great experience to play finals but to lose all three, and in the way we did each year had it effects ripple throughout the stakeholders. Dimma on the other hand purchased a new house in Brighton off the back of a new two year contract extension. They say timing is everything.

When you look at those years they were potted with significant shortfalls. More importantly they were off the back of some soft draws. Of all the teams playing finals in those three years, we beat fewer of the finalists and there were non-finalists that beat more finalists. 2016 was our toughest draw in four years and the result was there for all to see. I'm not bagging Richmond, just want Dimma to accept responsibility for sticking too rigidly to flawed game plans - perhaps he has already.

In a conversation Dimma had with a guy I know when Dimma was in Maroochydore, it was discussed how he has family in Buderim and likes visiting them. Then he said with a half joking, half steely look, "if I'm not careful I could be visiting them a lot more this year".

It's OK to lay the blame where you think our limited success should be laid, but would agree that name calling of those responsible is childish. Our failures or limited successes (if you like) were not just a bit of bad luck, they were abysmal performances requiring explanation. Chocco's interview does a little perhaps, there will be others come up through the year I'll bet.

 

[Goldust]

There is a difference in being critical on a certain issue and always looking for a angle to criticise the club or one particular person at the club.
The difference is having the ability to see good and bad not just look for the bad or alternatively always look for the good.
Plenty of good users on here who are considered good posters and who don't get caught up in the 'everything is shit x must be to be blamed ' or have rose coloured glasses.
The club made a terrible mistake after being pantsed in the first final under Hardwick . On field they become to predictable / over coached, which included the stupid idea of spread first and the move to deep forward entries. It meant we become over reliant on to few at the contest and to easy to defend in the forward line. Whilst off field the club got engrossed on following others with the idea of having a ex coach as an assistant .
A move I am yet to see be successfull and has often proven very disruptive with players gaining mixed messages and creating fractions within clubs ,choco was a clear example and it was reasonably well known during last season.
Vickery x 2 , have been another disruptive force within the club for some time, which many seem to not consider, who I am glad the club also pissed off.
Choco might be the greatest coach of all time , Vickery the 2017 / 2018 brownlow medalist and it wouldn't change my thinking .
They became to comfortable within RFC and we're spending more of their time having a negative disruptive impact on the club rather than positive.
Maybe they had grown tired of the place or maybe the were the cause ?

Don't disagree wtih much of this .... but ..... my initial observation.
If Chocco Williams totally screwed two other clubs and had a history of undermining people, what made him so appealing to the RFC?
Surely if his history was there for all to see, a club would avoid him like the plague, would they not.
So the fact he made his way to Punt Road means someone did not do their due diligence (Yarran all over again).
Then as much as you obviously don't want anyone to be critical of the club, if it's caused such a divide, someone needs to man up and take responsibility.
So will Damien? Benny? Dan? Someone employed Chocco, who you -and others - have painted as largely being unemployable.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Don't disagree wtih much of this .... but ..... my initial observation.
If Chocco Williams totally screwed two other clubs and had a history of undermining people, what made him so appealing to the RFC?
Surely if his history was there for all to see, a club would avoid him like the plague, would they not.
So the fact he made his way to Punt Road means someone did not do their due diligence (Yarran all over again).
Then as much as you obviously don't want anyone to be critical of the club, if it's caused such a divide, someone needs to man up and take responsibility.
So will Damien? Benny? Dan? Someone employed Chocco, who you -and others - have painted as largely being unemployable.

I have no issue with anyone being critical of the club especially if it is an informed and educated .
The head of the football department when choco joined, has already left the building , the same bloke signed lids and IIRC vickery to their last deals.

 

[Goldust]

I have no issue with anyone being critical of the club especially if it is an informed and educated .
The head of the football department when choco joined, has already left the building , the same bloke signed lids and IIRC vickery to their last deals.

Lids is a symbol of convenience for the significant failure of others.
Lumping what happened at Tigerland last year on Lids is a pure cop out and evidence of a regime unwilling to take responsibility for their own failures.
Coincidence .. we played some of the worst football we've dished up n 20 seasons with Lids sidelined!

 

[Tigey]

What was said during the intra club about Lids? and by who?

 

[Grechy]

Haven't been on Bigfooty in awhile. Read this thread. Yep we're still rubbish.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Chocco's interview was a fairly straightforward thing in what it was reported he said. payers were over-coached - no sh*t Sherlock. Responding well to being allowed to play on their instincts more - never heard that before . Conca has heaps of talent (I agree, many on BF don't) but hasn't done enough with it.

No mention of Dimma sucks, the club is a rabble etc.

The usual suspects have hijacked this thread (not unlike pretty much all the other threads). One thing I did read into the fairly poor reporting of what Chocco said was that the team is still pretty good and likely will be significantly better in 2017 due to personnel changes and change in coaching strategy. He didn't sound bitter. I suspect that there was some disagreement with Dimma in coaching philosophy. Dimma overcoaches. I remember when Cuz was at the Tigers he took Dimma and the coaching team aside the told them they were too complicated for he players. His stature enabled them to take it on and a major improvement resulted. They went back to the overcoached too smart approach and we got 2017. I also reckon the overcoaching is largely behind some of the finals losses. But Chocco did not go into any hammering of the club. (maybe glass houses and all that)

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Lids is a symbol of convenience for the significant failure of others.
Lumping what happened at Tigerland last year on Lids is a pure cop out and evidence of a regime unwilling to take responsibility for their own failures.
Coincidence .. we played some of the worst football we've dished up n 20 seasons with Lids sidelined!

Who is lumping everything that happened last year on Lids ?
You appear to be willing to turn anything anyone says, into them defending a club that is unwilling to take responsibility.

 

[Goldust]

Who is lumping everything that happened last year on Lids ?
You appear to be willing to turn anything anyone says, into them defending a club that is unwilling to take responsibility.

Some on here have apportioned plenty of blame for last year on Lids.
Others have pointed the finger at Chocco.
Anyone but those who are still in the joint.
My original point. If Chocco was such a destabilising influence at Port and GWS and let the Power turn to shit, them it was an obvious blunder on our part to employ him and showed a lack of due diligence. Now, is it so hard for the club to say we made an error? Or do we go the route where we subtly lay blame on things Willams did or presumably didn't do and wipe our hands of all other blame?
I am quoting your original post - Williams let Port go to ruins and a destabilising figure at both the Power and GWS. So, what made him such an attractive proposition for us knowing what he was like? In short, the club buggered up ... something you seen unable to bring yourself to say.

 

[Sir_Loin]

I'm taking exception to the fact that he is coming out and discussing issues which it seems he has played an influence in causing. It is complete horseshit for him to be an unkown influenece to this issue, get shitty at the fact he (potentially) got fired over it, and then publicly come out and comment about it

Noted.

 

[KiwiTiger]

Seriously, the rumours, innuendos and "ifs" in this thread regarding Mark, Port, GWS, RFC due diligence etc are, to me, just that.
I agree Mark is different in a lateral, left brain sense, but I would not say he's divisive at all, and always worked with the best interests of the Club in mind. How did I form that view? I worked at Port Adelaide, with their Board and Executive, in the year after their flag success. I attend the Cairns PreSeason Camp and Mark was my team captain. I sat in the coaches box twice last year with Mark present. In fact, I sat next to Mark at Blundstone. I've had lunch with him, and Chris Yarran last year.
And as for allegeded lack of due diligence by the club on his appointment, well we had two Port Adelaide premiership players at the Club who would have a good view of his working style. We also have the brother of the Giants CEO working in the Executive Team at the Club, so I just reckon I might stick my head out here, but if there were issues at GWS that we would have known about them????

In the end, was Mark the right man to take development forward in 2017? The Club decided not. But to classify him as decisive over a supposed argument with Alex, and other BigFooty innuendo, is just unfair to the man.

Haere Ra

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Some on here have apportioned plenty of blame for last year on Lids.
Others have pointed the finger at Chocco.
Anyone but those who are still in the joint.
My original point. If Chocco was such a destabilising influence at Port and GWS and let the Power turn to shit, them it was an obvious blunder on our part to employ him and showed a lack of due diligence. Now, is it so hard for the club to say we made an error? Or do we go the route where we subtly lay blame on things Willams did or presumably didn't do and wipe our hands of all other blame?
I am quoting your original post - Williams let Port go to ruins and a destabilising figure at both the Power and GWS. So, what made him such an attractive proposition for us knowing what he was like? In short, the club buggered up ... something you seen unable to bring yourself to say.

I have admitted the club made a huge error in gaining choco and I suggested it when they got him. The club got wrapped up in the idea of having a ex coach at the club which others were doing . At the time it was a fade many clubs were following .

 

[KiwiTiger]

I have admitted the club made a huge error in gaining choco and I suggested it when they got him. The club got wrapped up in the idea of having a ex coach at the club which others were doing . At the time it was a fade many clubs were following .

So, based on that, you're not a fan of Justin's appointment? Or Brett Ratten's efforts at Hawthorn?

Haere Ra

 

[Goldust]

Seriously, the rumours, innuendos and "ifs" in this thread regarding Mark, Port, GWS, RFC due diligence etc are, to me, just that.
I agree Mark is different in a lateral, left brain sense, but I would not say he's divisive at all, and always worked with the best interests of the Club in mind. How did I form that view? I worked at Port Adelaide, with their Board and Executive, in the year after their flag success. I attend the Cairns PreSeason Camp and Mark was my team captain. I sat in the coaches box twice last year with Mark present. In fact, I sat next to Mark at Blundstone. I've had lunch with him, and Chris Yarran last year.
And as for allegeded lack of due diligence by the club on his appointment, well we had two Port Adelaide premiership players at the Club who would have a good view of his working style. We also have the brother of the Giants CEO working in the Executive Team at the Club, so I just reckon I might stick my head out here, but if there were issues at GWS that we would have known about them????

In the end, was Mark the right man to take development forward in 2017? The Club decided not. But to classify him as decisive over an supposed argument with Alex, and other BigFooty innuendo, is just unfair to the man.

Haere Ra

Great post.
I don't disagree at all.
I only raised 'due diligence' as when you accuse the bloke of being divisive at two other clubs and bringing one of those clubs to its knees, the question has to asked how we would ever employ a bloke like that (and it's likely there's no truth in the original accusation).
Williams' appointment was near unanimously lauded by the Tiger faithful, but we are - as always - quick to lay blame on those departed. It;s human nature to point figures elsewhere .. it's just Williams' turn, according to some.

 

[Drofder]

Seriously, the rumours, innuendos and "ifs" in this thread regarding Mark, Port, GWS, RFC due diligence etc are, to me, just that.
I agree Mark is different in a lateral, left brain sense, but I would not say he's divisive at all, and always worked with the best interests of the Club in mind. How did I form that view? I worked at Port Adelaide, with their Board and Executive, in the year after their flag success. I attend the Cairns PreSeason Camp and Mark was my team captain. I sat in the coaches box twice last year with Mark present. In fact, I sat next to Mark at Blundstone. I've had lunch with him, and Chris Yarran last year.
And as for allegeded lack of due diligence by the club on his appointment, well we had two Port Adelaide premiership players at the Club who would have a good view of his working style. We also have the brother of the Giants CEO working in the Executive Team at the Club, so I just reckon I might stick my head out here, but if there were issues at GWS that we would have known about them????

In the end, was Mark the right man to take development forward in 2017? The Club decided not. But to classify him as decisive over a supposed argument with Alex, and other BigFooty innuendo, is just unfair to the man.

Haere Ra

Thank God for a sensible post on this thread.

Season cant start quick enough.

 

[TheSmokingGun]

Seriously, the rumours, innuendos and "ifs" in this thread regarding Mark, Port, GWS, RFC due diligence etc are, to me, just that.
I agree Mark is different in a lateral, left brain sense, but I would not say he's divisive at all, and always worked with the best interests of the Club in mind. How did I form that view? I worked at Port Adelaide, with their Board and Executive, in the year after their flag success. I attend the Cairns PreSeason Camp and Mark was my team captain. I sat in the coaches box twice last year with Mark present. In fact, I sat next to Mark at Blundstone. I've had lunch with him, and Chris Yarran last year.
And as for allegeded lack of due diligence by the club on his appointment, well we had two Port Adelaide premiership players at the Club who would have a good view of his working style. We also have the brother of the Giants CEO working in the Executive Team at the Club, so I just reckon I might stick my head out here, but if there were issues at GWS that we would have known about them????

In the end, was Mark the right man to take development forward in 2017? The Club decided not. But to classify him as decisive over a supposed argument with Alex, and other BigFooty innuendo, is just unfair to the man.

Haere Ra

Good to see why you were named Poster of the year KiwiTiger.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

So, based on that, you're not a fan of Justin's appointment? Or Brett Ratten's efforts at Hawthorn?

Haere Ra

I am not a fan of ex coaches taking on assistant coaching roles and especially coaches who have a large ego. I believe Justin's appointment does vary a little in that he is returning to the same environment and under the same coach he previously worked UNDER .

 

[Hot tigers]

All people have strength and weakness's, as KIWI has said, for most of us on BF we have no idea and claiming thoughts or opinion as bygone fact is nonsense..

To my first point, RFC have decided that given current climate they want change, doesn't mean we have perfect people now or in the future as circumstances and people constantly change, so to suggest due diligence or a huge mistake is incorrect unless you have all the facts and even then its never so black and white.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Great post.
I don't disagree at all.
I only raised 'due diligence' as when you accuse the bloke of being divisive at two other clubs and bringing one of those clubs to its knees, the question has to asked how we would ever employ a bloke like that (and it's likely there's no truth in the original accusation).
Williams' appointment was near unanimously lauded by the Tiger faithful, but we are - as always - quick to lay blame on those departed. It;s human nature to point figures elsewhere .. it's just Williams' turn, according to some.

and many didn't laud his appointment

 

[Goldust]

and many didn't laud his appointment

Yes, you didn't and maybe three others.