Chokers!

[jackster83]

Well said, these are pretty much thoughts as well.


Our rivalry is going to have some real meaning in the next 5 or so years I reckon. Good times.

Some meaning for Port fans maybe.

We won't get near them for years. Not with Wingard, Boak, Hartlett, etc.

 

[manureid]

Watch Boak at the last centre clearance, as after he gets the initial clearance he then races downfield to get another crucial touch in the chain. Not sure who was on him, but you do see a Crows player lagging behind and consequently does not get involved in the play. It is on these small things that make a huge difference. Some of your guys did stop running as hard I reckon, and maybe that is because they were in front and didnt feel the same desperation as the Port boys who knew they HAD to do something.

 

[KingJames23]

Watch Boak at the last centre clearance, as after he gets the initial clearance he then races downfield to get another crucial touch in the chain. Not sure who was on him, but you do see a Crows player lagging behind and consequently does not get involved in the play. It is on these small things that make a huge difference. Some of your guys did stop running as hard I reckon, and maybe that is because they were in front and didnt feel the same desperation as the Port boys who knew they HAD to do something.

Around the stoppages, it was Thompson. And noticed clearly that he was a step behind Boak at every contest. Boak continued to lead him to the ball and once he has it, has the running power to get away from Thompson. Boak's last 5 mins were incredible and even if he didn't get clear possession, he just got the ball forward until a team mate did.

Thompson is really built for the midfield but has always relied on strength and contested ball but with these mistakes and the free kicks he gives away, he is now becoming a liability in the midfield. Can't really play him forward. He's not a great kick for goal and struggles to find space. Just not sure how long we persist with him and accept his mistakes. Feel bad for saying it since he carried our team around 2010 and 2011.

As far as clangers go:
Ranks 5th in AFL for clangers per game 2013
Ranked 2nd in AFL for clangers per game in 2012
Ranked 1st in AFL for clangers per game in 2011
Ranked 3rd in AFL for clangers per game in 2010
Ranked 1st in AFL for total clangers in 2011, 2012 and 2013 over the season
Ranked 4th in AFL for total clangers in 2010 over the season

So we know what he gives us in terms of errors. In terms of frees against, he's averaged 2 or more in the last 3 seasons. His average disposals per game is also the lowest since 2008 and his average goals per game in 2013 is the lowest its been his entire career.

Anyway, I don't really have a point to his - I just wanted to highlight it. I guess my concern is that while he remains high on clangers, his goal kicking numbers and overall disposals are down, so percentage of his possessions that result in turnovers are higher.

 

[Bacon8]

Around the stoppages, it was Thompson. And noticed clearly that he was a step behind Boak at every contest. Boak continued to lead him to the ball and once he has it, has the running power to get away from Thompson. Boak's last 5 mins were incredible and even if he didn't get clear possession, he just got the ball forward until a team mate did.

Thompson is really built for the midfield but has always relied on strength and contested ball but with these mistakes and the free kicks he gives away, he is now becoming a liability in the midfield. Can't really play him forward. He's not a great kick for goal and struggles to find space. Just not sure how long we persist with him and accept his mistakes. Feel bad for saying it since he carried our team around 2010 and 2011.

As far as clangers go:
Ranks 5th in AFL for clangers per game 2013
Ranked 2nd in AFL for clangers per game in 2012
Ranked 1st in AFL for clangers per game in 2011
Ranked 3rd in AFL for clangers per game in 2010
Ranked 1st in AFL for total clangers in 2011, 2012 and 2013 over the season
Ranked 4th in AFL for total clangers in 2010 over the season

So we know what he gives us in terms of errors. In terms of frees against, he's averaged 2 or more in the last 3 seasons. His average disposals per game is also the lowest since 2008 and his average goals per game in 2013 is the lowest its been his entire career.

Anyway, I don't really have a point to his - I just wanted to highlight it. I guess my concern is that while he remains high on clangers, his goal kicking numbers and overall disposals are down, so percentage of his possessions that result in turnovers are higher.

I'd rather someone getting the ball 30 times, and making 4 clangers, than someone getting it 18 times and 3 clangers.

His possessions are down because other players are getting it. So that he's not carrying the team. That's a positive.

I recall 2 FA he had on the weekend. One was a HTB that he never held. And one was in the back that wasn't.

But, by all means, focus on the negative things he does.

 

[KingJames23]

I'd rather someone getting the ball 30 times, and making 4 clangers, than someone getting it 18 times and 3 clangers.

His possessions are down because other players are getting it. So that he's not carrying the team. That's a positive.

I recall 2 FA he had on the weekend. One was a HTB that he never held. And one was in the back that wasn't.

But, by all means, focus on the negative things he does.

If you checked my history of posts, you'd see I'm far from a negative poster.

Agree that less possessions for him are a good thing as other players are sharing the load. But based on watching the 4th quarter again, I'll still stick with what I saw, which was Thompson being a step behind in critical contests at the end of the game, and consistently being beaten to the ball.

 

[Mattrox]

I'd rather someone getting the ball 30 times, and making 4 clangers, than someone getting it 18 times and 3 clangers.

His possessions are down because other players are getting it. So that he's not carrying the team. That's a positive.

I recall 2 FA he had on the weekend. One was a HTB that he never held. And one was in the back that wasn't.

But, by all means, focus on the negative things he does.

Looking at frees against with Thommo is crazy. He takes a mark and they pay a free against. The umps somewho pay too many against him....... then the FA's double up because they get counted as Clangers when the ball in turned over, like the mark that was called a FA and all the HTB calls.

Thompson doesn't burn the ball as much as the clangers stat indicated. Champion data really needs to drop clangers stat and have turnovers, the handballs and short kicks straight to an opponent. Have the FA but then have FT where the free kick turned over the ball. Then you really can make a comment on a players disposal and propensity for free kicks.

 

[BACCS]

Some meaning for Port fans maybe.

We won't get near them for years. Not with Wingard, Boak, Hartlett, etc.

That's cool. Danger, Sloane, Crouch etc not good enough for you? And with Tex back, we have a better forwardline. Defense's are a bit like the midfield, fairly even.

It's gonna be a great rivalry for a few years, both sides have got great young lists that are building momentum (all teams can have a downer year, just look at Geelong in 2006).

I know you won't agree, and I don't care, but I look at the facts rather than make irrational statements based on the frustrations of our season.

 

[Bacon8]

Remembering that a FA is a clanger, 43% of Scott's clangers are Frees Against. So 53% of his turnovers are from the boot/hand.

By comparision, Scott Pendlebury has 30%. So 70% of his turnovers are from the boot/hand.And one clanger every 6.7 possession (for his career), which is exactly the same for Thommo. Dane Swan is one every 10.5 touches. Gablett is 9.8 dis/clanger (& 36% FA). Judd & Goodes comparable.

ST 6.7 (43%)
SP 6.7 (30%)
DS 10.5 (18%)
GAJ 9.8 (36%)
CJ 9.9 (35%)
AG 7.0 (46%)

Rory 10.6 (38%)
Danger 7.4 (36%)
Roo 10.8 (52%) (only 1998-2007)

Just for interest - but surprised that Pendles has a clanger just as often as Thommo.

 

[KingJames23]

Remembering that a FA is a clanger, 43% of Scott's clangers are Frees Against. So 53% of his turnovers are from the boot/hand.

By comparision, Scott Pendlebury has 30%. So 70% of his turnovers are from the boot/hand.And one clanger every 6.7 possession (for his career), which is exactly the same for Thommo. Dane Swan is one every 10.5 touches. Gablett is 9.8 dis/clanger (& 36% FA). Judd & Goodes comparable.

ST 6.7 (43%)
SP 6.7 (30%)
DS 10.5 (18%)
GAJ 9.8 (36%)
CJ 9.9 (35%)
AG 7.0 (46%)

Rory 10.6 (38%)
Danger 7.4 (36%)
Roo 10.8 (52%) (only 1998-2007)

Just for interest - but surprised that Pendles has a clanger just as often as Thommo.

They may have same clanger to possession ratio, but where pendlebury excels is that he is 1st in AFL for total effective disposals ans 2nd in effective disposals per game for 2013. By comparison, thommo is 30th for total eff disposals and 66th in AFL per game for 2013. This is also in a year where pendles has slightly more contested possessions (225-221), where its harder to get more effective possessions with the congestion. So while SP has 1 clanger for every 6.7 possessions, his use of the football for those 5.7 possessions are what makes him so great, and its also why Thommo has always struggled to hurt the opposition when he has the ball.

 

[skoobydoo]

What is really important is putting the ball/play to advantage.....and this is where Thommos effectiveness has virtually disappeared. If only he could get through his current fumble form.

 

[Bacon8]

They may have same clanger to possession ratio, but where pendlebury excels is that he is 1st in AFL for total effective disposals ans 2nd in effective disposals per game for 2013. By comparison, thommo is 30th for total eff disposals and 66th in AFL per game for 2013. This is also in a year where pendles has slightly more contested possessions (225-221), where its harder to get more effective possessions with the congestion. So while SP has 1 clanger for every 6.7 possessions, his use of the football for those 5.7 possessions are what makes him so great, and its also why Thommo has always struggled to hurt the opposition when he has the ball.

I thought we were talking about clangers.
But okay, let's go to Disposal efficiency.

Who has a better DE this year; Dane Swan, Nat Fyfe, Gary Ablett or Scott Thompson?

 

[KingJames23]

I thought we were talking about clangers.
But okay, let's go to Disposal efficiency.

Who has a better DE this year; Dane Swan, Nat Fyfe, Gary Ablett or Scott Thompson?

So the conversation can't evolve? Didn't know we were restricted to one topic.

Total effective disposals: GAJ is 3rd, swan is 4th, Fyfe is 67th
Eff disposals per game: GAJ is 3rd, swan in 8th, Fyfe is 63

I sense you edited your post to include fyfe to support your argument. What is your point?

 

[Bacon8]

So the conversation can't evolve? Didn't know we were restricted to one topic.

Total effective disposals: GAJ is 3rd, swan is 4th, Fyfe is 67th
Eff disposals per game: GAJ is 3rd, swan in 8th, Fyfe is 63

I sense you edited your post to include fyfe to support your argument. What is your point?

Not effective disposals.

Disposal efficiency.

 

[Bacon8]

Not effective disposals.

Disposal efficiency.

We've already determined that
ST getting less touches is a good thing, so total disposals is pointless. If we are happy with his 25 d/g (with sloane danger Douglas all getting more), we'd want those touches to be effective.