Chris Judd

[WaltzingMatera]

He left a club that refused to accept they had a massive culture problem from the CEO down. No-one wanted to acknowledge there was a drug problem at the club & ultimately it was left to the AFL to take action against Cousins & put the club on notice they had to get their act together. I seem to remember the parent of a potential draftee stating he was concerned about the possibility his son being drafted by the Eagles given the culture there at the time.

Your whole argument falls down because he decided to go to Carlton. Do you really want me to list all of Carlton's issues in recent years (including drug problems)?

 

[Monkey King]

Your whole argument falls down because he decided to go to Carlton. Do you really want me to list all of Carlton's issues in recent years (including drug problems)?

I don't necessarily subscribe to MSR's views, but yes; please list all the recent issues with the Carlton playing group that the administration refused to deal with. I'm interested to see how far you need to drift from the relevancy of Judd's decision to make your point actually seem real.

 

[WaltzingMatera]

He left a club that refused to accept they had a massive culture problem from the CEO down. No-one wanted to acknowledge there was a drug problem at the club & ultimately it was left to the AFL to take action against Cousins & put the club on notice they had to get their act together. I seem to remember the parent of a potential draftee stating he was concerned about the possibility his son being drafted by the Eagles given the culture there at the time.

That was Cotchin's Dad.

And funnily enough Cousins became his teammate at Richmond!

Oh his Dad's blood must have boiling.

 

[WaltzingMatera]

I don't necessarily subscribe to MSR's views, but yes; please list all the recent issues with the Carlton playing group that the administration refused to deal with. I'm interested to see how far you need to drift from the relevancy of Judd's decision to make your point actually seem real.

WC Administration may or may not have taken action quick enough. That is hard to determine because difficult to know how much people on the Board actually knew. Worsfold always said that he had no idea and when quizzed to some certain players after hearing rumours they lied to him.

My point was, if Judd was such a choir boy (rumours - whether real or not - suggest otherwise), nearly every other AFL club would have had a more squeaky clean image than Carlton.

 

[Monkey King]

WC Administration may or may not have taken action quick enough.

I'm in no position to know, but from where I observed it all unfold it seemed pretty obvious they were monstrously slow to react to the problem. perhaps to the point of being in denial. Certainly the public were all over it well before the admin acted and from the outside they only seemed to start taking it seriously when the league called them to account.

My point was, if Judd was such a choir boy (rumours - whether real or not - suggest otherwise), nearly every other AFL club would have had a more squeaky clean image than Carlton.

So was he worried about an image problem or an actual problem with the playing group? Unless you're arcing back to issues years before that were dealt with immediately by a previous administration, I'm struggling to see the actual relevance of your point - which is why I accepted your offer to list them out, which you've reneged on it seems. Either way, you've flown right passed MSR's point on to something else.

 

[PieBeast]

The reasons Judd left West Coast:
1. Homesickness
2. Money

The reasons Judd chose carlton as his destination:
1. VISY deal

 

[mediumsizered]

Your whole argument falls down because he decided to go to Carlton. Do you really want me to list all of Carlton's issues in recent years (including drug problems)?

Go for it & then name all the Carlton players deregistered by the AFL for taking drugs & all those that have died of drug overdoses. Sometimes I wonder if the river running through Perth is the Swan or does it share the name of a river which runs through Egypt.

 

[Monkey King]

You're a walking talking cliched myth there PB. Well done!

 

[Forward Press]

Go for it & then name all the Carlton players deregistered by the AFL for taking drugs & all those that have died of drug overdoses. Sometimes I wonder if the river running through Perth is the Swan or does it share the name of a river which runs through Egypt.

I wonder how you made it to mod.

 

[Forget the Stats]

Ratten needs to be brave. As a our stars come back he needs to find away to allow judd to open up. A move away from the ball may be the move.

I'd like to see him on a wing. Away from the current scrumming, but still close to goal where he is dangerous (maybe not off his own foot but he can set up a goal). In the current game where numbers at the ball are closing down the contested ball, he drags his opposition to the ball. On a wing he either drags a tagger away from the ball, or could find space if the tag drops off.

I also reckon by repositioning him his confidence in his own disposal as he will have less of those high pressure kicks get out kicks and handball.

Yep but I think you'll need Murphy back before you can move Judd away from clearances. He's definately down on form and he appears a shadow of his former self. I hope he can get back to his best as he's an absolute champion.
On a different note I think you guys will have a real crack at getting Koby Stevens off us this year. Can't crack a spot in our side but playing good WAFL footy. I hope we keep him but he's probably half way out the door already.

 

[Spuddage]

Whether its money, culture or missing his mum, I still dont see how these are reasons to abandon the club you've made a commitment to when they are down. When you accept the captaincy your making a massive commitment to the club, he broke that and thats why he's not well loved or respected by Eagles fans.
To put a hypothetical out there, imagine if Fremantle offered Judd even more money than he's earning now and Woodside threw in a few more million outside salary cap then he held a press conference to announce that Bec was homesick so they were heading back West. Add in murphy and maybe carrazo retiring at the same time and then see if Judd would be welcomed with open arms by the majority of Carlton fans.

 

[Monkey King]

Whether its money, culture or missing his mum, I still dont see how these are reasons to abandon the club you've made a commitment to when they are down. When you accept the captaincy your making a massive commitment to the club, he broke that and thats why he's not well loved or respected by Eagles fans.

I don't expect him to be loved and respected, but really, the WCE fans reaction in his fifth year at Carlton is getting embarrassing IMO. And references to the captaincy is the biggest crock of the lot. You blokes never even acknowledged him as your captain in anything but name. Really, if I was a WCE supporter I'd be far more dirty on Cousins than I would Judd.

To put a hypothetical out there, imagine if Fremantle offered Judd even more money than he's earning now and Woodside threw in a few more million outside salary cap then he held a press conference to announce that Bec was homesick so they were heading back West.

Pfft! So I'm gonna carry on like a twat over Grigg forever am I? He's a far bigger merc than Judd. Footy players return to their home states every year. You were happy to get Stenglein, but spit chips over Judd. It's all a bit precious for mine thanks.

 

[Monkey King]

I wonder how you made it to mod.

Why, coz he asked the bloke to go ahead and do what he said he would?

 

[WaltzingMatera]

I'm in no position to know, but from where I observed it all unfold it seemed pretty obvious they were monstrously slow to react to the problem. perhaps to the point of being in denial. Certainly the public were all over it well before the admin acted and from the outside they only seemed to start taking it seriously when the league called them to account.



So was he worried about an image problem or an actual problem with the playing group? Unless you're arcing back to issues years before that were dealt with immediately by a previous administration, I'm struggling to see the actual relevance of your point - which is why I accepted your offer to list them out, which you've reneged on it seems. Either way, you've flown right passed MSR's point on to something else.

Lawrence Angwin came to Carlton with a bad reputation but Carlton accepted him and played him anyway. He was later caught at training under the influence. <read Kouta's book> Cousins was not a perfect student but not sure he came to WC with bad drug reputation although known as a bit of petulant 'up yours to the establishment' type. When he missed training, that is when the club learnt about it properly. Before that, everything else was just rumours.

Norman was given many opportunities but departed later after another indiscretion. <again read Kouta's book>

It is not so disimilar to WC and I have no allegiances to WC's Board so would not stick up for them.

The point is, Carlton had a period of drug issues (and I'm not even going to get into the salary cap breaches, potentially paying girls to stay quiet, etc, etc) so Carlton's image was far from perfect. Judd ignored that history, ignored his previous love for the Demons, and chased the money - rightly or wrongly.

It further ignores the fact that he was friends with Cousins and invited him to his wedding and close friends with many other Eagles players - hardly the actions of a guy disgraced with the club and trying to run away from it as far as possible.

 

[Spuddage]

I don't expect him to be loved and respected, but really, the WCE fans reaction in his fifth year at Carlton is getting embarrassing IMO. And references to the captaincy is the biggest crock of the lot. You blokes never even acknowledged him as your captain in anything but name. Really, if I was a WCE supporter I'd be far more dirty on Cousins than I would Judd.



Pfft! So I'm gonna carry on like a twat over Grigg forever am I? He's a far bigger merc than Judd. Footy players return to their home states every year. You were happy to get Stenglein, but spit chips over Judd. It's all a bit precious for mine thanks.

Oh I must have missed the period where Grigg was your captain?

 

[Forward Press]

Why is Grigg and Stenglein regarded on the same level as Judd's situation?

 

[Forward Press]

Why, coz he asked the bloke to go ahead and do what he said he would?

Who uses 'coz'?

 

[WaltzingMatera]

I don't expect him to be loved and respected, but really, the WCE fans reaction in his fifth year at Carlton is getting embarrassing IMO. And references to the captaincy is the biggest crock of the lot. You blokes never even acknowledged him as your captain in anything but name. Really, if I was a WCE supporter I'd be far more dirty on Cousins than I would Judd.



Pfft! So I'm gonna carry on like a twat over Grigg forever am I? He's a far bigger merc than Judd. Footy players return to their home states every year. You were happy to get Stenglein, but spit chips over Judd. It's all a bit precious for mine thanks.

Judd decided to be the enemy. He gets what he gets from some fans. Don't be so precious.

And please don't compare Grigg and Stenglein to Judd.

Judd was loved by the people of Perth. So many kids bought eagles shirts with his number on the back and would have been shattered when he left. The club paid Judd huge money, offered him the captaincy, etc etc. He lied about wanting to stay in Perth over and over. No matter what the club did for him it still wasn't enough.

Try comparing Judd leaving WC with say if Jesaulenko left. My Dad was a young Carlton fan then and he would have been shattered. Maybe Carlton hasn't ever had this happened to them so Carlton fans don't really understand what it means/feels.

 

[Terex8]

Don't have an issue with WC fans booing Judd. Peter Moore was a captain of Collingwood and left to go to Melbourne for more coin. The first time Collingwood played Melbourne, there was a famous banner saying 'No Moore Filth'.

Let's face it, he played off 3 clubs in Melbourne in who would offer him the most money. Merely a gun for hire and the way he is idolized at Carlton is embarrassing.

 

[Monkey King]

The point is, Carlton had a period of drug issues ...

Yep! That's what I thought. You're crapping on about one episode that involved junior members of the team (Angwin was a rookie) quite some time before Judd's arrival and under a completely different coach and administration where they acted immediately nonetheless. Has about as much relevance to your supposed point as Hawthorn's injunction.

 

[WaltzingMatera]

Yep! That's what I thought. You're crapping on about one episode that involved junior members of the team (Angwin was a rookie) quite some time before Judd's arrival and under a completely different coach and administration where they acted immediately nonetheless. Has about as much relevance to your supposed point as Hawthorn's injunction.

Yeah just crapping on.

You're better than that MK.

 

[Monkey King]

Mate. It was one incident, year's before Judd decision to move and one that was dealt with swiftly by a different administration, with a different playing group and a different coaching group. While it may be a harsh way of putting it, I do think it's crapping on as it basically has no relevance to Judd's decision at all. It's just grasping at think air IMO.

 

[Spuddage]

What about the hush-payments to women? Was that the clubs way of dealing with thing swiftly?

 

[Monkey King]

What about the hush-payments to women? Was that the clubs way of dealing with thing swiftly?

Sorry, again, what's the relevance? This happened with another playing group, another coaching group, a couple of admins previous and wasn't even out in the public until well after Judd made his decision.

All this reaching must be hurting you bloke's arms huh?

 

[Tex_21]

Chris Judd did not win a flag for West Coast. Rowan Jones did.