Chris Judd

[jonoman89]

Ratten needs Judd to play, if Carlton dont start winning then he (Ratten) wont be there next year, so he doesnt care about Judds future.

This is what I fear. Judd, Waite, Kreuzer and Yarran seem to have chronic injuries yet most are playing every week under duress. If we lose three more game this year and ruin any chance of making the eight then those players should not play unless absolutely 100% right.

Add the fact that Carrazzo and Scotland were rushed back earlier than expected (seems to have worked though). Laidler was rushed back and did his knee again, then did it again yesterday in the VFL once more.

I'm now worried that Murphy will be rushed back despite it being very possible that when he's semi-ready our season will be over.

The coaching and administrative staff are going into survival mode because they're scared shitless they're going to be fired. I think a lot of them would be more than happy to run players into the ground in a last ditch effort to make the eight and save their own skins.

If Ratten or any other member of our coaching/admin team is putting their own interests ahead of the club's then they should be shown the door immediately. The focus is 2013 and a flag. Not 2012 and an 8th placed finish with a possible semi-final result.

 

[greenpike]

This is what I fear. Judd, Waite, Kreuzer and Yarran seem to have chronic injuries yet most are playing every week under duress. If we lose three more game this year and ruin any chance of making the eight then those players should not play unless absolutely 100% right.

Judd will have been ruined by two coaches, then. We played him when we shouldn't many times I'm sure...

But I don't feel sorry for him. Boats of money, two brownlows and a premiership captain? That's enough

 

[tesseract]

Surpassed? LOL. You already started above Carlton with a nice smattering of All Australian premiership players on your list, so while it sounds just lovely and all, it's such a hollow claim to victory AFAIC.



Where's the shifting goalposts? Nothing has changed or moved. Carlton have won the trade every year so far - or let me put it in a more palatable way for you perhaps; Judd has outperformed the alternate options every season since arriving at Carlton. You see, to me, that's a definite trade win.

The only need for derogatory LOL's is at how Carlton accumulated top draft picks for many years, then poached a superstar, but have already been surpassed a few short years later by the team that spent only a fraction of the time rebuilding, who also happened to lose that superstar to your supported team.

Judd's departure, among others, played a part in WC going on to finish 2nd last and being the rebuild. At Carlton's acquiring of Judd, the rebuild of theirs was over, and so their climb began. So, Carlton started ahead due to WC having to rebuild, while Carlton were spouting "They know we're coming." WC not only rebuilt quicker than Carlton, but have surged past Carlton in achieving better team results. "Hollow victory" is not my call, for I've not claimed victory. I've shown by team results that WC are currently in front.

Your reasoning from earlier in the thread to what you're spouting now. I've pointed out discrepancies in previous posts.
Given that team results are all that matter in footy, your measure isn't even one that matters a great deal. So, you merely clutch at straws because Judd didn't bring team success to Carlton.

 

[tesseract]

You've given no valid measure at all. All you've done is parochially point to the present ladder position of each club nigh on five years after the trade's completion and childishly claim bragging rights. Yes yes. I get it! It might be a measure of where these two clubs started from at the time of the trade, it might be a measure of each club's recruiting or player development, it might signify that WCE didn't lose-out in the long run; but it's not a good measure of whether Carlton won/lost a trade from five years ago; it's not even a measure. No amount of derp from you is going to change that; nor will it change the fact that Judd has outperformed the alternate option every season since the trade.



The year Judd was traded, you were reigning premiers; Carlton were reigning spooners

Team results? Yeah-nah, if you can't figure this shit out, then all I can say is ... derp!

Denial after denial. Is that all you have? Parochialism works vice versa, not that it means anything here. Judd was brought in to be the cherry on top of all of Carlton's high draft picks; to lead them from the abyss and take them to glory. This hasn't eventuated as planned. This plan when bringing Judd to Carlton can be weighed against the positions the two teams were at at the time of the trade, what has transpired from then till present, and the results the two teams have had since. Given those involved in the trade are part of the team, as well as the expected outcomes from those teams based on what was acquired from the trade, the measuring of the team is valid.

Indeed. "Derp" is all you've been spouting.

 

[Monkey King]

The only need for derogatory LOL's is at how Carlton accumulated top draft picks for many years, then poached a superstar, but have already been surpassed a few short years later by the team ... that was reigning premier in the season the trade took place.

EFA! Just needed to add the most pertinent point for you in bold. Derp!

So ... I get the whole "surpassed" thing sounds very impressive, but WCE were what, 10 positions in front of Carlton at the time of the trade? Meanwhile Carlton were "worse than Fitzroy". Suddenly surpassed doesn't sound like much of an achievement at all. LOL

 

[tazhawk]

Do not be fooled by Monkey Boy defending Judd he as well as most sensible Carlton supporters, know Judd is in rapid decline.

Hell there is even a thread about how crap Judd has become on their own board.

Cue Monkey Boy to say something about Hodge.

 

[laminex]

Translation: Laminex made up a blatant lie and was caught out.... Again.... So like a kid he gets hostile, throws some insults around and departs the thread.

NO kid i just do not care if you believe me or not, i am not like you who begs for the support of the masses. If i say something i do not care what you think about it at all. What i have said is as easy as google but you would cry like a fat kid without cake. This is why i try not to talk with posters from small towns they have small minds and talk like campaigners.

 

[laminex]

Do not be fooled by Monkey Boy defending Judd he as well as most sensible Carlton supporters, know Judd is in rapid decline.

Hell there is even a thread about how crap Judd has become on their own board.

Cue Monkey Boy to say something about Hodge.

Are you trolling or stupid???

He is not talking about Judd as a player, he is talking about a measurement a formula, nothing to do with Judd Hodge or you small peanut brain.

Really how stupid are you mate.

 

[greenpike]

Ni kid i just do not care if you believe me or not, i am not like you would begs for the support of the masses.

Truth, brother. Not even Carlton would lay claim to you.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Do not be fooled by Monkey Boy defending Judd he as well as most sensible Carlton supporters, know Judd is in rapid decline.

Hell there is even a thread about how crap Judd has become on their own board.

Cue Monkey Boy to say something about Hodge.

Hodge ? - I remember him - he used to play football ??

 

[Spuddage]

NO kid i just do not care if you believe me or not, i am not like you who begs for the support of the masses. If i say something i do not care what you think about it at all. What i have said is as easy as google but you would cry like a fat kid without cake. This is why i try not to talk with posters from small towns they have small minds and talk like sillys.

I dont believe you because I know its not true, someone even posted an article that proves it isnt true!
Look, be an adult and just admit you made something up to suit your argument and have been caught out, this childish name calling and references to 'small towns' is just making you look stupid.

I dont agree with monkeyboy but at least he is making coherent arguments and only using facts that are actually facts and not imagined events. Maybe leave this one to him and the rest of the adults and head back over to the bay.

 

[laminex]

I dont believe you because I know its not true, someone even posted an article that proves it isnt true!
Look, be an adult and just admit you made something up to suit your argument and have been caught out, this childish name calling and references to 'small towns' is just making you look childish.

I dont agree with monkeyboy but at least he is making coherent arguments and only using facts that are actually facts and not imagined events. Maybe leave this one to him and the rest of the adults and head back over to the bay.

The fact that you care is what makes you small minded mate, do not blame me because you are stuck in a box mate.

 

[laminex]

Hodge ? - I remember him - he used to play football ??

Yes and is a gun player, they only need to get him right for the finals. We all know what a out and out gun he is.

 

[Spuddage]

The fact that you care is what makes you small minded mate, do not blame me because you are stuck in a box mate.

Im not sure what that even means, mate. Pretty sure your just deflecting because you know your wrong, mate. Feel free to make an argument against the previously posted article, mate.

Not sure what box you think im stuck in mate, pretty sure im not a mime, mate.

 

[laminex]

Im not sure what that even means, mate. Pretty sure your just deflecting because you know your wrong, mate. Feel free to make an argument against the previously posted article, mate.

Not sure what box you think im stuck in mate, pretty sure im not a mime, mate.

ok mate

 

[tesseract]

EFA! Just needed to add the most pertinent point for you in bold. Derp!

So ... I get the whole "surpassed" thing sounds very impressive, but WCE were what, 10 positions in front of Carlton at the time of the trade? Meanwhile Carlton were "worse than Fitzroy". Suddenly surpassed doesn't sound like much of an achievement at all. LOL

It's irrelevant where WC finished when Judd was still an Eagle because the traded had yet to occur. Besides, WC immediately bottomed upon Judd and co leaving, putting their rebuild supposedly years behind Carlton's. Carlton being unable to get their shit together got surpassed in quick time. WC surpassed Carlton, not when Carlton were supposedly worse than Fitzroy, but when they were up and about, fighting for a top 4 spot. So, that makes your worse than Fitzroy comment irrelevant.

From denial after denial to EFA's, I'm impressed.

 

[Monkey King]

It's irrelevant where WC finished when Judd was still an Eagle because the traded had yet to occur.

So the relative state of each list at the actual time of the trade has nothing to do with one having now surpassed the other? Just more derp from you!

 

[Xtreme]

Cooney is better than Judd at present and he has a bung knee

 

[tesseract]

So the relative state of each list at the actual time of the trade has nothing to do with one having now surpassed the other? Just more derp from you!

What has this comment of yours have to do with the part of my comment you've quoted?

Given that the trade period is before list lodgement, 'actual time' doesn't take into consideration who WC lost during that same off-season. The fact is that WC, from the point of Judd, Cousins and co leaving, were in rebuild mode. Carlton, on the other hand, were coming out of rebuild mode with Judd and many accumulated high draft picks.

 

[Monkey King]

What has this comment of yours have to do with the part of my comment you've quoted?

Read it again perhaps. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you.

Given that the trade period is before list lodgement, 'actual time' doesn't take into consideration who WC lost during that same off-season. The fact is that WC, from the point of Judd, Cousins and co leaving, were in rebuild mode. Carlton, on the other hand, were coming out of rebuild mode with Judd and many accumulated high draft picks.

That's a nice story, but WCE have never been, at any stage, where Carlton were at the time of the trade; I mean, you still have a smattering of All Australian premiership players in your side even today. Carlton would kill for that kind of senior leadership.

This hindsight certainty, where at the time of the trade WCE were expected to fall as dramatically as they did and Carlton rocket up the ladder; where any future "surpassing" of Carlton by WCE on the ladder - despite being ten positions ahead that season - means the Blues didn't win the trade; it's just mind numbing stuff really.

 

[Pie eyed]

This is what I fear. Judd, Waite, Kreuzer and Yarran seem to have chronic injuries yet most are playing every week under duress. If we lose three more game this year and ruin any chance of making the eight then those players should not play unless absolutely 100% right.

Add the fact that Carrazzo and Scotland were rushed back earlier than expected (seems to have worked though). Laidler was rushed back and did his knee again, then did it again yesterday in the VFL once more.

I'm now worried that Murphy will be rushed back despite it being very possible that when he's semi-ready our season will be over.

The coaching and administrative staff are going into survival mode because they're scared shitless they're going to be fired. I think a lot of them would be more than happy to run players into the ground in a last ditch effort to make the eight and save their own skins.

If Ratten or any other member of our coaching/admin team is putting their own interests ahead of the club's then they should be shown the door immediately. The focus is 2013 and a flag. Not 2012 and an 8th placed finish with a possible semi-final result.

Judd is just getting on. Injuries have to be expected, especially with his history.
Waite has always suffered from injury his whole career. It's basically halved his actual value to the side.
Kreuzer could end up being Carton's Josh Fraser if they don't look after his body a little better.

 

[WaltzingMatera]

This is what I fear. Judd, Waite, Kreuzer and Yarran seem to have chronic injuries yet most are playing every week under duress. If we lose three more game this year and ruin any chance of making the eight then those players should not play unless absolutely 100% right.

Add the fact that Carrazzo and Scotland were rushed back earlier than expected (seems to have worked though). Laidler was rushed back and did his knee again, then did it again yesterday in the VFL once more.

I really think that the game against WC, Carlton was doing a last roll of the dice for this season.

 

[tesseract]

Read it again perhaps. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you.



That's a nice story, but WCE have never been, at any stage, where Carlton were at the time of the trade; I mean, you still have a smattering of All Australian premiership players in your side even today. Carlton would kill for that kind of senior leadership.

This hindsight certainty, where at the time of the trade WCE were expected to fall as dramatically as they did and Carlton rocket up the ladder; where any future "surpassing" of Carlton by WCE on the ladder - despite being ten positions ahead that season - means the Blues didn't win the trade; it's just mind numbing stuff really.

So, you don't know how your post relates to mine. That doesn't surprise me.

This is where you shift the goalposts, again. Now it comes down to: "you still have a smattering of All Australian premiership players in your side even today."
Carlton's play-off against Melbourne for the Kreuzer cup shows that Carlton weren't as bad as Fitzroy. That was a matter of rolling in the M1 Abrams.

Ten positions ahead is irrelevant because Judd and co were still Eagles for this to occur. What transpired from the point of the trade onwards is what's relevant.

 

[tazhawk]

Hodge ? - I remember him - he used to play football ??

Trolling injured players.

Classy.

 

[Monkey King]

This is where you shift the goalposts, again. Now it comes down to: "you still have a smattering of All Australian premiership players in your side even today."

How the hell is that shifting goalposts? Everything I've written as been part of a single and unchanging congruent argument? I think you're going to have to explain your bizarre use of the term and provide some direct examples of where anything I've written doesn't match up.

This particular fact about All Australian premiership players being on your list throughout that time is just further demonstration of how the state of WCE's list as never been comparable to the Blues. Yet you keep using terms like "rebuild" as though they apply evenly to our two clubs.

Carlton's play-off against Melbourne for the Kreuzer cup shows that Carlton weren't as bad as Fitzroy.

Sorry buddy. It was shown that over the preceding years, there hadn't been a team maintain such a statistical low point for many many years ... including Fitzroy. No point trying to re-wite everything now; this is where Carlton came from. When you say "rebuild", this is what you're actually talking about beyond the abstractness of the word.

Certainly it's not the same "rebuild" WCE went through; which was more like a Collingwood version (GF playing list, some retiring key players, injury affected, retain key senior players) where they dipped for some good young talent and shot straight back up again. Don't confuse word application for practical reality; saying you rebuilt and we rebuilt doesn't mean "we" did the same thing at all. You are comparing shit and sugar but fail to see it.

I guess GWS lost out with the Luke Power exchange huh? They got a senior player and onfield coach to help with the kids, while the Lions got nothing at all; but the Lions are higher up on the ladder so GWS lost yeah? Derp!