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Toast Chris Masten

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To Masten's credit, when he gets dropped he doesn't seem to drop his bundle and does all he can to get his spot back. If they do rest Shuey this week I would like to see him a full game.
 
INSANE said:
I still think his best shot of making it is trying to play the Braun role. Whilst Braun was obviously bigger (more muscular) it didn't really matter as he was a hard running, outside receiver with good finishing skills.

Masten has mostly been played in the centre and amongst the congestion and stronger bodies....It seems he just can't handle it as he's too light and too easily buffeted off the prune. Can't break or stand up in tackles either and he's not strong over the ball which means he isn't clean with his hands at ground level. Obviously a number of bigger, stronger players have leap-frogged him in there and Gaff, Rosa and Embley have the outside roles pegged.

So they want him to play HF now, don't think he is suited there at all....Not a strong mark and suspect under even a little bit of pressure from a defender....Defensive side and goal kicking also pretty average. Hams better for this.

So really he hasn't been good enough to nail any position and has a number of players in front of him in every position he can play......

This is just a gut feel, but I reckon the club and he will agree to part at years end.
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Agree with this whole post Insane.

Whats interesting however is that I watched Marc Murphy play the EXACT role that Masten is best suited to - that of a link between back and fwd line. Both players are similar height and running skills, the difference is one is an elite kick and one isnt. That role at WC seems to be Gaff's to lose.

With the emphasis firmly on winning contested football nowdays, I dont like the chances of any kid being drafted who doesnt stand at least 6"1' and weigh 80kg UNLESS they have blistering pace and can play a FP role.

In fact what will be interesting is how WC approach drafts going forward. We on BF speculate how they are in desperate need of an outside player with zip, yet for the most part, these type of players struggle with a game plan based on contested possession.
 

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BOND 007 said:
Agree with this whole post Insane.

Whats interesting however is that I watched Marc Murphy play the EXACT role that Masten is best suited to - that of a link between back and fwd line. Both players are similar height and running skills, the difference is one is an elite kick and one isnt. That role at WC seems to be Gaff's to lose.

With the emphasis firmly on winning contested football nowdays, I dont like the chances of any kid being drafted who doesnt stand at least 6"1' and weigh 80kg UNLESS they have blistering pace and can play a FP role.

In fact what will be interesting is how WC approach drafts going forward. We on BF speculate how they are in desperate need of an outside player with zip, yet for the most part, these type of players struggle with a game plan based on contested possession.
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Agree with the post, however on the bolded bit, is that true?

What we have requested is that we need quality mids who can break lines and have some hurt factor... Judd & Kerr both do, did that and are hardly outside ... its this false suggestion, originally promoted by recruiters that defines guys as outside or inside .. it excuses weaknesses present in both "types" ... we need more class through the middle and that requires blokes who can win their own footy and can do damage when they have it. If you are slow and more "inside" you can, at very least, have great feet or vision or creative handball ... just being inside is no better than just being outside.

Sure you can use guys as role players, even keyish roles, who primarily are receivers or contested possession guys but the best players do both and what I have been pushing for is not "outside" zippy players but elite midfielders ... there is a difference. Shuey for example has a very good chance to be one.
 
Eagle87 said:
Agree with the post, however on the bolded bit, is that true?

What we have requested is that we need quality mids who can break lines and have some hurt factor... Judd & Kerr both do, did that and are hardly outside ... its this false suggestion, originally promoted by recruiters that defines guys as outside or inside .. it excuses weaknesses present in both "types" ... we need more class through the middle and that requires blokes who can win their own footy and can do damage when they have it. If you are slow and more "inside" you can, at very least, have great feet or vision or creative handball ... just being inside is no better than just being outside.

Sure you can use guys as role players, even keyish roles, who primarily are receivers or contested possession guys but the best players do both and what I have been pushing for is not "outside" zippy players but elite midfielders ... there is a difference. Shuey for example has a very good chance to be one.
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Eagle87 - you're arguing with the wrong person here, I agree with your position (in fact I always have done so). Whilst the cries may not be as strong now, rewind a few months and you would find a number of posters suggesting we make offers for a Lewis Jetta, a Leroy Jetta, a Daniel Wells - in fact anybody who was ex WA and could run like the wind.

What I was trying to do was indicate that players who have acknowledged good skills and great pace but who CANNOT win a contested battle (and therefore dont have the ball to use their skills or pace) are being found out in 2011 - e.g. Stephen Hill and Lewis Jetta.
 
BOND 007 said:
Eagle87 - you're arguing with the wrong person here, I agree with your position (in fact I always have done so). Whilst the cries may not be as strong now, rewind a few months and you would find a number of posters suggesting we make offers for a Lewis Jetta, a Leroy Jetta, a Daniel Wells - in fact anybody who was ex WA and could run like the wind.

What I was trying to do was indicate that players who have acknowledged good skills and great pace but who CANNOT win a contested battle (and therefore dont have the ball to use their skills or pace) are being found out in 2011 - e.g. Stephen Hill and Lewis Jetta.
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Ok, wasn't so much arguing with you as just raising this false dichotomy that seems to exist between players being "inside" and "outside". I reckon the best players do both to a considerable extent. And in your key midfield spots you want 2 or 3 "best" players...

I agree that the last couple of years have seen an increase in the importance of contested footy, although some would argue "getting it" has always been paramount!.

Interesting where Gaff fits in to this debate. He is currently getting his ball by being on the end of others work and out running everyone else. Which is fine but one would suggest that type of player could be tagged out of a game unless they can win their own ball in a contest. I guess we will see.
 
Eagle87 said:
I agree that the last couple of years have seen an increase in the importance of contested footy, although some would argue "getting it" has always been paramount!.
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It's become even more important with the the huge number of players in a small area around the stoppages, these days. A player that can take the ball cleanly and dish off to a player in a better position (even if only marginally better) is a valuable commodity.

Watching the Eagles at training, they spend as much time on reflex and hand/eye activities as they do on circle work.
 
Eagle87 said:
Ok, wasn't so much arguing with you as just raising this false dichotomy that seems to exist between players being "inside" and "outside". I reckon the best players do both to a considerable extent. And in your key midfield spots you want 2 or 3 "best" players...

I agree that the last couple of years have seen an increase in the importance of contested footy, although some would argue "getting it" has always been paramount!.

Interesting where Gaff fits in to this debate. He is currently getting his ball by being on the end of others work and out running everyone else. Which is fine but one would suggest that type of player could be tagged out of a game unless they can win their own ball in a contest. I guess we will see.
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OK, don't come on here and use words the rest of us don't know. :p

Yes, the getting the footy always has and always will be paramount. It is at under 11s, it is in senior footy. If you purely seagull off the back of the pack, your use by date is very short.
The great signs with Gaff is that he's not always skirting packs, he's going to the coalface a lot more now. He also has an immense workrate, which one would think would make the tagging that bit more difficult. BUt you're right, we'll see, but looks positive for now.
 
swannies said:
OK, don't come on here and use words the rest of us don't know. :p

Yes, the getting the footy always has and always will be paramount. It is at under 11s, it is in senior footy. If you purely seagull off the back of the pack, your use by date is very short.
The great signs with Gaff is that he's not always skirting packs, he's going to the coalface a lot more now. He also has an immense workrate, which one would think would make the tagging that bit more difficult. BUt you're right, we'll see, but looks positive for now.
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I agree that the signs are very positive, was just noting thats the only question mark - he has shown no fear to date. Although, Hill wasn't scared to get inside in his first year, now Lach72 describes him as playing like "a scared little girl" :D
 
Eagle87 said:
Ok, wasn't so much arguing with you as just raising this false dichotomy that seems to exist between players being "inside" and "outside". I reckon the best players do both to a considerable extent. And in your key midfield spots you want 2 or 3 "best" players...

I agree that the last couple of years have seen an increase in the importance of contested footy, although some would argue "getting it" has always been paramount!.

Interesting where Gaff fits in to this debate. He is currently getting his ball by being on the end of others work and out running everyone else. Which is fine but one would suggest that type of player could be tagged out of a game unless they can win their own ball in a contest. I guess we will see.
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Players like Shuey/Judd/Goodes etc are the most important as they play both roles (inside and outside) well. However as swannies correctly pointed out - if you cant get a ball you cant play the game at any level and so the best players are those that win their own ball and dispose of it correctly.

The interesting thing is those players who shall we say are more "receivers" than "getters" are now struggling as opposition teams find a hard tag negates their "assets" almost completely. Hill is now playing HBF to avoid the tag, as is Delidio whilst Jetta had 6 possessions in 3/4 of a game for Syd before being subbed off for a player who had 7 in 1 qtr playing on the MCG on a beautiful day.
 
Eagle87 said:
I agree that the signs are very positive, was just noting thats the only question mark - he has shown no fear to date. Although, Hill wasn't scared to get inside in his first year, now Lach72 describes him as playing like "a scared little girl" :D
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And Lach used to abuse me when I made similar statements in the last couple of years. ;)

Worsfold doesn't allow that to go on, unhindered, that, I have faith in. :)
 

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BOND 007 said:
Players like Shuey/Judd/Goodes etc are the most important as they play both roles (inside and outside) well. However as swannies correctly pointed out - if you cant get a ball you cant play the game at any level and so the best players are those that win their own ball and dispose of it correctly.

The interesting thing is those players who shall we say are more "receivers" than "getters" are now struggling as opposition teams find a hard tag negates their "assets" almost completely. Hill is now playing HBF to avoid the tag, as is Delidio whilst Jetta had 6 possessions in 3/4 of a game for Syd before being subbed off for a player who had 7 in 1 qtr playing on the MCG on a beautiful day.
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Jetta was never scared at Swans, but he could be tagged out of a game, work ethic must go up. What have they done to him at Sydney?

I hate my U11s shirking a contest, and don't worry, it gets noticed by me. I don't chastise them, I just think up a training drill where they can cop a whack, just to get it out of their system, so they understand it won't kill them. :D And it's always, always, always the really good runners. ;)
 
swannies said:
Jetta was never scared at Swans, but he could be tagged out of a game, work ethic must go up. What have they done to him at Sydney?

I hate my U11s shirking a contest, and don't worry, it gets noticed by me. I don't chastise them, I just think up a training drill where they can cop a whack, just to get it out of their system, so they understand it won't kill them. :D And it's always, always, always the really good runners. ;)
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Actually Swannies - during draft selections, the club I thought Jetta was least suited to was Sydney and I think its unfortunate he ended up there. I know he re-signed again but unless there is a change in strategy I really cant see him making a go of it as their game plan and ground dimensions simply dont suit his style of play. I know they were crying out for some outside run but I really dont know whey they drafted him.
 
Sydney clearly employed a drafting strategy of picking up quick, line breaking guys with some x-factor and goal sense, in the past two drafts they've taken Gary Rohan, Jetta and Jed Lamb with early selections.

Picked up Dennis-Lane cheap too. No idea how he got himself on an AFL list over some other guys toiling in the wafl.
 
Mattman93 said:
Sydney clearly employed a drafting strategy of picking up quick, line breaking guys with some x-factor and goal sense, in the past two drafts they've taken Gary Rohan, Jetta and Jed Lamb with early selections.

Picked up Dennis-Lane cheap too. No idea how he got himself on an AFL list over some other guys toiling in the wafl.
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And how many games have these 3 played ?
 

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BOND 007 said:
Actually Swannies - during draft selections, the club I thought Jetta was least suited to was Sydney and I think its unfortunate he ended up there. I know he re-signed again but unless there is a change in strategy I really cant see him making a go of it as their game plan and ground dimensions simply dont suit his style of play. I know they were crying out for some outside run but I really dont know whey they drafted him.
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Yep, I think it was evident to many, but Sydney. ;) And then they got frightened that the Eagles or Freo might be interested and re-signed him. Completely agree, unless Longmire changes something he's a wasted player over there.

Mattman93 said:
Sydney clearly employed a drafting strategy of picking up quick, line breaking guys with some x-factor and goal sense, in the past two drafts they've taken Gary Rohan, Jetta and Jed Lamb with early selections.

Picked up Dennis-Lane cheap too. No idea how he got himself on an AFL list over some other guys toiling in the wafl.
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Amen brother, would never, ever, ever have got near the list if I was RM. :)
 
BOND 007 said:
And how many games have these 3 played ?
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Have a look at Sydney's 1st round recruitment strategy since the snagged McVeigh in 2003.

I think they got Jolly in one trade - and apart from that - have stunk it up.

They have done well with re-treads - but their early drafting has been abhorrent.
 
The Falcon Strike said:
Have a look at Sydney's 1st round recruitment strategy since the snagged McVeigh in 2003.

I think they got Jolly in one trade - and apart from that - have stunk it up.

They have done well with re-treads - but their early drafting has been abhorrent.
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Them and Adelaide work to different paramaters.

Actually Syd draft OK players - they just seem to draft the wrong ones for them.
 

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Toast Chris Masten

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