Coach Chris Scott contracted to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part 5- its Like Rocky)

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PhatBoy

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Still don't mind it. Milburn extremely lucky to make it, Lingy a bit high, Jnr a bit low.
But a decent list.
But I might just be happy someone else rates Scarlett as high as I do.


This. Milburn was a good player, really integral part of a great defence but to make a list like that top 50 you’d want to be one of the first 1-2 players chosen in your area of the field, barring exceptions like when we had Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Selwood all on the ball.

Milburn would never ever be picked ahead of any of the main defenders he played alongside. Scarlett, Enright, Taylor, Egan if he got a run at it, probably Harley. He’d never be picked ahead of Stewart and a few others later on either. I wouldn’t have put him in a top 50

Edit: Bluey McGrath another one
 
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catscollector

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This. Milburn was a good player, really integral part of a great defence but to make a list like that top 50 you’d want to be one of the first 1-2 players chosen in your area of the field, barring exceptions like when we had Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Selwood all on the ball.

Milburn would never ever be picked ahead of any of the main defenders he played alongside. Scarlett, Enright, Taylor, Egan if he got a run at it, probably Harley. He’d never be picked ahead of Stewart and a few others later on either. I wouldn’t have put him in a top 50

Milburn was a superb player and yes, he was picked ahead of main players such as Enright (started out as a midfielder) and a few others you mentioned as they did not arrive until Milburn was three quarters of the way through his own career.
Milburn's best asset was that he played his best footy when finals began. Always among the best and one of the coolest and most composed defenders we have ever had.

Milburn was a better player than Harley. No question in my mind about that. Much more accountable, creative and superior user of the ball. Harley's aerial prowess was brilliant. Arguably better than Tom Stewart.

Milburn, Scarlett and Enright . . . . you always wanted the ball in their hands when the game was tight and you had a narrow lead. They rarely turned it over under pressure.
 

00VicWard001

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Milburn was a superb player and yes, he was picked ahead of main players such as Enright (started out as a midfielder) and a few others you mentioned as they did not arrive until Milburn was three quarters of the way through his own career.
Milburn's best asset was that he played his best footy when finals began. Always among the best and one of the coolest and most composed defenders we have ever had.

Milburn was a better player than Harley. No question in my mind about that. Much more accountable, creative and superior user of the ball. Harley's aerial prowess was brilliant. Arguably better than Tom Stewart.

Milburn, Scarlett and Enright . . . . you always wanted the ball in their hands when the game was tight and you had a narrow lead. They rarely turned it over under pressure.
He was a ruthless animal. Him and Joel Corey were my favourite players back in the day.
 

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PhatBoy

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He was great. Saying he's not in the 50 best players isn't a put down though. He was still good.


Exactly. I do think he was a very good player. But across that period alone we had 20-25 regulars who were all very good footballers so excluding him from the best 50 of the last 60 years or all time is not a criticism or insult. I saw on a few lists he was above Chapman.
To me that’s lunacy.
 

PhatBoy

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I actually regard him very similarly to the guy he sat out 2011 with. Very important to our toughness and our attitude as a team and while less demonstrative than Mooney, a bit of a spiritual pulse of the team. But as a footballer I don’t quite have him in the same bracket as a dozen or so others from that era
 

BrunoV

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I dont think there is any doubt Scott has been one of the best of the last 20 years just as I think Lyon has.

Premierships are not necessarily within the coaches control there is a point some luck is required.

Lyon lost flags due to the bounce of the ball. As much as I get sucked in by Geelong, with the benefit of hindsight there hasn't been a time before 2020 that you've really had a premiership team. There have been deficiencies which have been overcome by (Scott's) tactics and the quality of your top end.

There was little to no key forward support for Hawkins. Between 2015 and 2018 you didn't really have a side built to play pressure footy. There was a lack of speed for a while.

2020 was probably the first time you had the side we thought you all did. Ironically enough the third quarter was probably the first time the system cost you as you were asleep with Danger forward to lose control of that match for 10 min which was enough. Richmond was also a very good side.

This year the list got better again but injury did not give you a clean run at it.

Whether Scott's message has become stale is another matter but I really don't see how the results could realistically been any better over the last 10 years, 2020 aside.
 

Vdubs

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I dont think there is any doubt Scott has been one of the best of the last 20 years just as I think Lyon has.

Premierships are not necessarily within the coaches control there is a point some luck is required.

Lyon lost flags due to the bounce of the ball. As much as I get sucked in by Geelong, with the benefit of hindsight there hasn't been a time before 2020 that you've really had a premiership team. There have been deficiencies which have been overcome by (Scott's) tactics and the quality of your top end.

There was little to no key forward support for Hawkins. Between 2015 and 2018 you didn't really have a side built to play pressure footy. There was a lack of speed for a while.

2020 was probably the first time you had the side we thought you all did. Ironically enough the third quarter was probably the first time the system cost you as you were asleep with Danger forward to lose control of that match for 10 min which was enough. Richmond was also a very good side.

This year the list got better again but injury did not give you a clean run at it.

Whether Scott's message has become stale is another matter but I really don't see how the results could realistically been any better over the last 10 years, 2020 aside.
Perfect unbiased summary of what I have been trying to say.
 
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Turbocat

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I dont think there is any doubt Scott has been one of the best of the last 20 years just as I think Lyon has.

Premierships are not necessarily within the coaches control there is a point some luck is required.

Lyon lost flags due to the bounce of the ball. As much as I get sucked in by Geelong, with the benefit of hindsight there hasn't been a time before 2020 that you've really had a premiership team. There have been deficiencies which have been overcome by (Scott's) tactics and the quality of your top end.

There was little to no key forward support for Hawkins. Between 2015 and 2018 you didn't really have a side built to play pressure footy. There was a lack of speed for a while.

2020 was probably the first time you had the side we thought you all did. Ironically enough the third quarter was probably the first time the system cost you as you were asleep with Danger forward to lose control of that match for 10 min which was enough. Richmond was also a very good side.

This year the list got better again but injury did not give you a clean run at it.

Whether Scott's message has become stale is another matter but I really don't see how the results could realistically been any better over the last 10 years, 2020 aside.

Well reasoned but I disagree.

Maximizing a poor list seems to be main thrust of your contention. The results and the way it has been utilised is within that frame. By that logic 18 coaches could be good each year. How good are the coaches of bottom sides. Scott has little credit for 2011 because its assess by some that the side was there to be win the GF. It like trying to work out if Hamilton would be a great F1 driver in a crap car, or is he good driver in a very good car.

What is without doubt is that he has been in charge while we have not fallen away and while we have not been a great side.

He and the club(as it was not just his choice) has not dropped to rebuild, and has churned the side with questionable talent, sometimes mature, sometimes less than premium kids. One could argue he has done well with what we have had.

At the same time the result is a side the continues to finish in no mans land. Not ultimate success, no chance to access the best talent.

What is without doubt too is that they style that we have played has failed in finals, as our performances against sides in finals have generally been worse than what we have done thru the year.

In some respect Scotts challenge is somewhat like any coach that has followed a Sheed era.. Thompson built a side that carried us to 3 flags. Scott has built a side that has seen us revert to a bridesmaid side and club.His results are worse by comparison.. I'm sure sides like Suns would love to have had what we have had for the last 10 years, while may supporters of geelong probably have wished for the type of talent they have added, and we have not been able to access thru continued mediocre finals results

Id rather us to have ripped the bandaid off at some stage. When the clubs started on this process..the nominated 17/18 as the years we should be aiming at.
As it stand now, I think the club are looking at several players 30 plus...and potentially a long held back drop may occur when they leave. The seesaw is about to tip. If and when Scott flushes the side and rebuilds by going down and then coming up...I think he will get more credit.

At the moment he looks more like a guy bailing water from a leaking boat, not fixing the leak. He gets credit for keeping us floating, not for having the best boat. The plaudits he gets is because he has succeeded in preventing us from sinking yet in the AFL if you do not sink, you are compelled to keep bailing.

IF "hindsight there hasn't been a time before 2020 that you've really had a premiership team." ..is a fact... that is a statement and comment on why Scott is such a contentious coach. Some give him credit for bailing , other blame him for not properly repairing the boat.. cause here we are in 2021, ten years in... and the hole in the boat is about to get larger.
 
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BlakeyNoFlakey

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I think it's tough to build a premiership-winning team without getting some top 10 picks in the draft. Trading only takes you so far; you need those kids coming up who will turn into an elite midfield engine. I agree you could argue it was admirable how the club under Scotty has never really fallen far down the ladder with only one year out of the top 8. But it has also created the current situation as well. You can't have it both ways. I think the club has to embrace the idea of a rebuild. We don't need to drop to the bottom and languish. Many clubs have had a few dips and bounced back once they've got some good talent.
 

Vdubs

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Well reasoned but I disagree.

Maximizing a poor list seems to be main thrust of your contention. The results and the way it has been utilised is within that frame. By that logic 18 coaches could be good each year. How good are the coaches of bottom sides. Scott has little credit for 2011 because its assess by some that the side was there to be win the GF. It like trying to work out if Hamilton would be a great F1 driver in a crap car, or is he good driver in a very good car.

What is without doubt is that he has been in charge while we have not fallen away and while we have not been a great side.

He and the club(as it was not just his choice) has not dropped to rebuild, and has churned the side with questionable talent, sometimes mature, sometimes less than premium kids. One could argue he has done well with what we have had.

At the same time the result is a side the continues to finish in no mans land. Not ultimate success, no chance to access the best talent.

What is without doubt too is that they style that we have played has failed in finals, as our performances against sides in finals have generally been worse than what we have done thru the year.

In some respect Scotts challenge is somewhat like any coach that has followed a Sheed era.. Thompson built a side that carried us to 3 flags. Scott has built a side that has seen us revert to a bridesmaid side and club.His results are worse by comparison.. I'm sure sides like Suns would love to have had what we have had for the last 10 years, while may supporters of geelong probably have wished for the type of talent they have added, and we have not been able to access thru continued mediocre finals results

Id rather us to have ripped the bandaid off at some stage. When the clubs started on this process..the nominated 17/18 as the years we should be aiming at.
As it stand now, I think the club are looking at several players 30 plus...and potentially a long held back drop may occur when they leave. The seesaw is about to tip. If and when Scott flushes the side and rebuilds by going down and then coming up...I think he will get more credit.

At the moment he looks more like a guy bailing water from a leaking boat, not fixing the leak. He gets credit for keeping us floating, not for having the best boat. The plaudits he gets is because he has succeeded in preventing us from sinking yet in the AFL if you do not sink, you are compelled to keep bailing.

IF "hindsight there hasn't been a time before 2020 that you've really had a premiership team." ..is a fact... that is a statement and comment on why Scott is such a contentious coach. Some give him credit for bailing , other blame him for not properly repairing the boat.. cause here we are in 2021, ten years in... and the hole in the boat is about to get larger.
I think it's tough to build a premiership-winning team without getting some top 10 picks in the draft. Trading only takes you so far; you need those kids coming up who will turn into an elite midfield engine. I agree you could argue it was admirable how the club under Scotty has never really fallen far down the ladder with only one year out of the top 8. But it has also created the current situation as well. You can't have it both ways. I think the club has to embrace the idea of a rebuild. We don't need to drop to the bottom and languish. Many clubs have had a few dips and bounced back once they've got some good talent.
Both great posters and both great points.
I think the club has given CS and SWells a directive to always be competitive, to regain annual increasing memberships, to maintain interest. We have never been without promise over this time, but we have never been the best, unlike 2007, 08, 09, and 2011. That sort of era is near impossible to recapture. Coming off that era, it has been difficult to accept that although so close, we are also so far. I still think our list is nowhere near the best, although our top end is or was brilliant.
CS has done well with what he has to work with. Some people say we bring up excuses, but we certainly have had reasons and circumstances for our finals results. Only disappointment and anger prevents that from being accepted.
We have never dropped off like Richmond did this year, or like Brisbane or Hawthorn have. Remarkable. EVERY year, it is expected Geelong will be around the mark. Every year since 2007. I can live with that. Flags are orgasmic, but expecting them is folly. And we know now it can't last. We have nearly lost all our immortals, and once Selwood, Hawkins and Danger go, we can rebuild as long as it takes. And this year's drafting suggests we are already starting to look at the future more than other years.
 
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catscollector

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I think it's tough to build a premiership-winning team without getting some top 10 picks in the draft. Trading only takes you so far; you need those kids coming up who will turn into an elite midfield engine. I agree you could argue it was admirable how the club under Scotty has never really fallen far down the ladder with only one year out of the top 8. But it has also created the current situation as well. You can't have it both ways. I think the club has to embrace the idea of a rebuild. We don't need to drop to the bottom and languish. Many clubs have had a few dips and bounced back once they've got some good talent.

It may be a bit different for us though. We really have very little quality coming through. Holmes, Henry, Stephens, Parfitt, Close, Miers, De Koning, Narkle, Evans, O'Conner, a few of which have yet to even manage a handful of senior games.
The biggest concern facing us right now is the age demographic. We could experience a wave of older players coming to a complete halt. If we are lucky, most will slowly decline.
I think Dangerfield becomes the most important player for us in 2022. If indeed he is in decline, like that of Selwood, the burden on our ageing midfield becomes something similar to what we witnessed with Selwood 2013-2015.

I think what we saw of Dahlhaus, Higgins and Henderson just this past season may be a precursor of what to expect in 2022-2023. The end comes quickly for most.
 

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For me it has been our reluctance to expose the younger players and rest the older ones. We try win every home and away game which is admirable but it’s a self fulfilling prophecy that our best players are older if we don’t invest games in the youth.

In fairness I think we tried with Evans and would have played Kreuger earlier if he wasn’t injured - Simpson also got injured and would have liked to give him more games

Selwood and Danger limp into finals - and we aren’t brave enough to rest the older players and risk losing home and away games.

I do believe this will change this year though.

The cliff can be avoided if we cap Selwood, higgins, Rohan and Dalhaus at 12 games max- ideally besides Selwood the others are pushed out of the team. Although I think Selwood shouldn’t play more than 12 if we want him to perform in a final.

Danger needs to go forward for long periods and consecutive games to expose young midfield so they can develop

Smith, blitz, menegola, Hawkins, Cameron, Stanley, ceglar max 17 games

Everyone else max 19 games - be brave enough to rotate

Need to create games for Stengle, Stephens, Narkle, Simpson, Evans, SDK, Neale, Stevens and the draftees


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Vdubs

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For me it has been our reluctance to expose the younger players and rest the older ones. We try win every home and away game which is admirable but it’s a self fulfilling prophecy that our best players are older if we don’t invest games in the youth.

In fairness I think we tried with Evans and would have played Kreuger earlier if he wasn’t injured - Simpson also got injured and would have liked to give him more games

Selwood and Danger limp into finals - and we aren’t brave enough to rest the older players and risk losing home and away games.

I do believe this will change this year though.

The cliff can be avoided if we cap Selwood, higgins, Rohan and Dalhaus at 12 games max- ideally besides Selwood the others are pushed out of the team. Although I think Selwood shouldn’t play more than 12 if we want him to perform in a final.

Danger needs to go forward for long periods and consecutive games to expose young midfield so they can develop

Smith, blitz, menegola, Hawkins, Cameron, Stanley, ceglar max 17 games

Everyone else max 19 games - be brave enough to rotate

Need to create games for Stengle, Stephens, Narkle, Simpson, Evans, SDK, Neale, Stevens and the draftees


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There are numerous people employed at each club whose main task is to monitor and assess each player on the list each day and each week. Your guidelines for matches played may not have been intended as literal, but the players and staff have the best knowledge. Of course, list and player management is important, but any of us on the sidelines could only be guessing at how many games each player should play.
I always advocated that our most senior players not travel interstate at all, specially if history of hammies or calves, but even that can be unnecessarily restrictive.
 

standupand

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For me it has been our reluctance to expose the younger players and rest the older ones. We try win every home and away game which is admirable but it’s a self fulfilling prophecy that our best players are older if we don’t invest games in the youth.

In fairness I think we tried with Evans and would have played Kreuger earlier if he wasn’t injured - Simpson also got injured and would have liked to give him more games

Selwood and Danger limp into finals - and we aren’t brave enough to rest the older players and risk losing home and away games.

I do believe this will change this year though.

The cliff can be avoided if we cap Selwood, higgins, Rohan and Dalhaus at 12 games max- ideally besides Selwood the others are pushed out of the team. Although I think Selwood shouldn’t play more than 12 if we want him to perform in a final.

Danger needs to go forward for long periods and consecutive games to expose young midfield so they can develop

Smith, blitz, menegola, Hawkins, Cameron, Stanley, ceglar max 17 games

Everyone else max 19 games - be brave enough to rotate

Need to create games for Stengle, Stephens, Narkle, Simpson, Evans, SDK, Neale, Stevens and the draftees


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It was a bit odd to see Selwood play so many h&a games last season. But like vdubs said, the club has far more info on players than we do. I personally don't really like the whole rotation approach. I just think there should be genuine competition for spots and no preference given to older players (and especially older new recruits). Players need to aim to play as many h&a games as possible to get themselves hardened for finals, not the other way around, playing less games so as to still have something left in the tank.
 
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It was a bit odd to see Selwood play so many h&a games last season. But like vdubs said, the club has far more info on players than we do. I personally don't really like the whole rotation approach. I just think there should be genuine competition for spots and no preference given to older players (and especially older new recruits). Players need to aim to play as many h&a games as possible to get themselves hardened for finals, not the other way around, playing less games so as to still have something left in the tank.


I see the logic to what you guys are saying but as an outsider I do feel we tend to limp in to the finals every year, but that is not my main point.

My main point is that if we don’t manufacture opportunities for the youth then the cliff will come, i don’t see any evidence that our senior players perform at their peak in finals either so that creates an opportunity.

In fairness given what Geelong has tried to do, no VFL football for two years has been a HUGE handicap


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Partridge

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Selwood and Danger limp into finals - and we aren’t brave enough to rest the older players and risk losing home and away games.

I do believe this will change this year though.

The cliff can be avoided if we cap Selwood, higgins, Rohan and Dalhaus at 12 games max- ideally besides Selwood the others are pushed out of the team. Although I think Selwood shouldn’t play more than 12 if we want him to perform in a final.

Danger needs to go forward for long periods and consecutive games to expose young midfield so they can develop

Partly because players get match payments. Not sure if they still do, but they used to get extra depending on how many games they played. So their incentive is more games = more money. They won't rest themselves.

The thing with Dangerfield going forward is it has to be of value. He only kicked 8 goals in 2021. Needs a lot more than that to justify being moved there for long periods.
 

Turbocat

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Partly because players get match payments. Not sure if they still do, but they used to get extra depending on how many games they played. So their incentive is more games = more money. They won't rest themselves.

The thing with Dangerfield going forward is it has to be of value. He only kicked 8 goals in 2021. Needs a lot more than that to justify being moved there for long periods.

I dont believe Selwood and Danger do anything based on money. Just my pov.


Danger going forward.For what ever reason ..he is a poor kick. Fundamentally he has a lot of traits similar to GA sr but I think for a long time its been too easy to rely on pure talent. In 2021, I think he natural speed seemed less threatening. Soon he may have to show he has more than just playing midfield on his own terms. If Dangerfield doesn't have enough talent to kik 50 goals a year playing forward, then I dont know who has. he needs to polish his skills , to kick 3 out of 4 shots at goal.

Makes one more aware of how good GA sr was .. at his height to do what he did.
 

catscollector

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Danger going forward.For what ever reason ..he is a poor kick. Fundamentally he has a lot of traits similar to GA sr but I think for a long time its been too easy to rely on pure talent. In 2021, I think he natural speed seemed less threatening. Soon he may have to show he has more than just playing midfield on his own terms. If Dangerfield doesn't have enough talent to kik 50 goals a year playing forward, then I dont know who has. he needs to polish his skills , to kick 3 out of 4 shots at goal.

Makes one more aware of how good GA sr was .. at his height to do what he did.

We were all expecting this to transpire when Danger got into the twilight of his career. I see he his now listed at 97kg. That's a heavy body for someone 6ft'2 in the old.
That weight is going to allow him to maneuver bigger players out of position. 35 goals should be a realistic expectation as a semi permanent forward.
 

witsend

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Personally, I’m a fan of CS and still believe he’s the right coach for now (but not without his issues, which I’m sure he’d admit) but it occurred to me recently that I don’t believe he would be here atm without that “debut” flag. Too close for too long would be the narrative.


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standupand

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Personally, I’m a fan of CS and still believe he’s the right coach for now (but not without his issues, which I’m sure he’d admit) but it occurred to me recently that I don’t believe he would be here atm without that “debut” flag. Too close for too long would be the narrative.


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I want to say no he wouldn't, but he barely gets much credit for that flag as it is. If he had left and gone to another club somehow I imagine he would have broken through pretty quickly and coached multiple premierships just like Blight did with the crows.
 

Sttew

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Yes, because “he didn’t really coach the 2011 GF; he was gifted a premiership team”.

Seriously, I don’t know. Had he not won in 2011 we may have won in 2013 or 2014
 

FredLeDeux

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We were all expecting this to transpire when Danger got into the twilight of his career. I see he his now listed at 97kg. That's a heavy body for someone 6ft'2 in the old.
That weight is going to allow him to maneuver bigger players out of position. 35 goals should be a realistic expectation as a semi permanent forward.
If Dangerfield is playing forward, Dangerfield playing forward is going to get limited opportunities.
 

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