Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[Ricketz]

Melbourne are still young, they were never going to beat WC in Perth with that young list coming off 2 easy finals and having not played finals in 10 years or however long.

Their midfielders although guns are 21-24yo.

They will likely finish top 4 if not top this year but they probably wont win the flag.

In 2-3 years they will be a super team.

Young attacking teams are always going to be inconsistent. Sometimes they are just going to get bullied by bigger more experienced teams.

I would be extremely surprised if Melbourne didnt win at least 2 flags with this group. WC and Richmond are almost done (maybe 2 more years), the Pies aren't that strong outside their midfield. GWS are losing players each year and have no culture. The Bombers might snag 1-2 if they are lucky. Outside of that there isn't much competition over the next 5 years.

Yeah, Nathan Jones and Lewis are spring chickens.

 

[Ricketz]

Ive never ever seen anyone here say they want to see us bottom out, or go down the same path as Carlton or the GC....talk about hyperbole
What I have seen is people criticise the club, for allowing the same mistakes to happen year in year out under Scott, something the club is openly starting to admit themselves
The irony of posters getting smacked for pointing out things that the Club actually agree with is ridiculous Utter arrogance by the usual offenders who probably wouldnt know the lace on the footy from the bladder

That's not what you are doing though. They are not the same mistakes each year.

Instead, there is a lot of whinging here because no flag. As you say, the club has identified problems and are attempting to fix them - but it just seems to have heightened the petulant complaining about all things Scott and the Cats on these threads. When will you be happy? Only with a magical flag, like they should come every second year.

Has the club got everything right? No. But spare me your claims of arrogance - you guys are the ones who think you know better than one of the oldest football clubs in the competition. Now that is arrogance.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

That's not what you are doing though. They are not the same mistakes each year.

Instead, there is a lot of whinging here because no flag. As you say, the club has identified problems and are attempting to fix them - but it just seems to have heightened the petulant complaining about all things Scott and the Cats on these threads. When will you be happy? Only with a magical flag, like they should come every second year.

Has the club got everything right? No. But spare me your claims of arrogance - you guys are the ones who think you know better than one of the oldest football clubs in the competition. Now that is arrogance.

Name me one instance where Ive demanded a flag... Ive only ever asked for competitiveness. That doesnt mean that I think we should win every week, or win the flag every year... it simply means having a dip. Anyone with half a brain knows exactly what the ongoing issues are with the club. EVEN THE CLUB ACKNOWLEDGES THEM! But go on, point out where Ive said anything different than that.
Ive also been very consistent with with pointing out trends and failures that have continued under Scott... EVEN THE CLUB ACKNOWLEDGES THEM NOW!
Losing after byes, not showing up for finals, no forward pressure, falling off the pace with a one dimensional game plan... those are the main ones, but also choices around the selection table, the nepotism, giving certain lazy blokes a free pass, automatic selections. This has all festered under Scott.

The only whinger in this conversation is YOU You cant stand the fact that some posters here wont be part of your circle jerk. Its not an echo chamber, its a chat forum for people to express different views. Some posters are just more honest, knowledgable, and observant than you. Thats all.

Maybe hanging out at the front of the club for autographs is your go... this isnt the place for you champ.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Name me one instance where Ive demanded a flag... Ive only ever asked for competitiveness And that doesnt equate to just winning, it simply means having a dip. Go on, point out where Ive said anything different than that
Ive also been very consistent with with pointing out trends and failures that have continued under Scott... things that the Club itself is now acknowledging
Losing after byes, not showing up for finals, no forward pressure, falling off the pace with a one dimensional game plan,

The only whinger in this conversation is YOU You cant stand the fact that some posters here wont be part of your circle jerk. Its not an echo chamber, its a chat forum for people to express different views. Go hang out at the front of the club for autographs,,, this isnt the place for you.
Jog on champ...

We've been to games together and both pointed out the lack of urgency and endeavour from some players and they continued to be selected week in, week out. It's no surprise that we continued to be caught out under finals pressure. The Melbourne final last year was the easiest money I'e ever made.

It's great that the club (Scarlett) has finally recognised this. It shouldn't have taken this long if mugs like us could see it sitting in the crowd.

 

[James1970]

The only whinger in this conversation is YOU You cant stand the fact that some posters here wont be part of your circle jerk. Its not an echo chamber, its a chat forum for people to express different views. Go hang out at the front of the club for autographs,,, this isnt the place for you.
Jog on champ...

If you take a step back, figuratively, and look at the various threads over the year, nearly every one of them has degenerated to the same basic issue, with the same people repeating the same opinions on either side of the fence.

Sadly, this place has become an echo chamber and it's pretty tiring.

Some will blame Chris Scott for this.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

We've been to games together and both pointed out the lack of urgency and endeavour from some players and they continued to be selected week in, week out. It's no surprise that we continued to be caught out under finals pressure. The Melbourne final last year was the easiest money I'e ever made.

It's great that the club (Scarlett) has finally recognised this. It shouldn't have taken this long if mugs like us could see it sitting in the crowd.

Spot on utensil... but dont dare mention the obvious on here... honesty is not welcome.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Hawkins, Dangerfield, Selwood, Kelly, Taylor, Ablett - we have the same numbers. You are cherry picking to match reality with your preferred position.

Of course, nothing like Melbourne, GWS, Essendon, Saints, Freo, Gold Coast or Brisbane, who have had far less opportunity at success than we have had with a lot more 1st and 2nd round picks.

But yeah, their strategy is the way to go.

I'm not cherry picking. I didn't put trades in any of the examples I posted.
Or different eras.
Just top 15 players coming through around the same time that won a flag.
Hawkins and Selwood were 11 years ago.
I don't expect a flag every 2 years FFS. Just would like to see us build towards one and have a chance at one in the future.
I do understand that's just my view, I understand the view of people that consider just making finals is success, and are happy with that. It is a good effort after all these years.
Personally I would like to see us have a fair dinkum chance at the big one one day.
I don't mind the hard times and the rebuild.

 

[Down at K Park]

I heard that Scott’s hoping the next stage of Kardinia park development is to build a wall. If Scott doesn’t get his wall approved he’s going to shut down training.

You gave it the old college try

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Even if anything different has occurred this pre-season and this is not fluff, it doesn't matter now. Needed to happen a couple of years ago. Now the list is cooked.

If our young'ns carry the load through the season, maybe not. But if our 30+ year olds do the heavy lifting for most of the season (again), then you will be right, for sure.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Even if anything different has occurred this pre-season and this is not fluff, it doesn't matter now. Needed to happen a couple of years ago. Now the list is cooked.

The list isn't cooked at all. Hogwash.

 

[Chinacats]

And if we didn't hear anything, you'd be crying about a lack of news and that "nothing has changed". Right?

Who needs news in December. Just rubbish talk!

 

[Chinacats]

I particularly like the part where we had the biggest review in years, but we re signed the coach before the review and finals even took place.

Just vacuous buzz phrases that get trotted out every season

Yes you’re absolutely right!

 

[Chinacats]

I do luv the train of compaint.

Everything the club does is s**t.

We have specific well documented issues - that need addressing - and there are long winded complaints abut lack of reaction.

The club then says they are doing more than ever to address them - including Scarlo's quotes now about action and shifting the way of doing things to implement and address said issues and still the complaints come. Even before any outcomes can be derived.
Blinded by bitterness and luv to to argue.

Go Catters

But hardwick did it last year and Buckley this year. A bit slow at catland!

 

[Chinacats]

Name me one instance where Ive demanded a flag... Ive only ever asked for competitiveness. That doesnt mean that I think we should win every week, or win the flag every year... it simply means having a dip. Anyone with half a brain knows exactly what the ongoing issues are with the club. EVEN THE CLUB ACKNOWLEDGES THEM! But go on, point out where Ive said anything different than that.
Ive also been very consistent with with pointing out trends and failures that have continued under Scott... EVEN THE CLUB ACKNOWLEDGES THEM NOW!
Losing after byes, not showing up for finals, no forward pressure, falling off the pace with a one dimensional game plan... those are the main ones, but also choices around the selection table, the nepotism, giving certain lazy blokes a free pass, automatic selections. This has all festered under Scott.

The only whinger in this conversation is YOU You cant stand the fact that some posters here wont be part of your circle jerk. Its not an echo chamber, its a chat forum for people to express different views. Some posters are just more honest, knowledgable, and observant than you. Thats all.

Maybe hanging out at the front of the club for autographs is your go... this isnt the place for you champ.

One of the best posts I’ve read! Correct on all fronts about post bye losses etc...

 

[Nickoo]

When the Cats came mighty close in 2013 to adding a 4th flag ( 20- pts up at 3qtr time - and Caddy kicked the answering goal to keep it at 20 pts ) - Freo in the GF - goodness gracious me - who kicked 1 goal to half time in the GF

Who honestly thinks Geel has had the cattle since to win a flag - i dont - Josh Walker was CHF in a couple of those finals

For the older supporters - what Geel has done is a carbon copy of what Nth Melb did ( when the ageing flag winning stars one by one slowly retire and aernt on the list ) in the mid 70s to early 80s - their still competitive - they make the finals - but no one rates them - and they are quickly eliminated

Nth Melb 74-78 five GFs in a row for 2 flags

79 beaten in the PF
80 finished 4th - eliminated 1st week
81 down year - finished 8th
82 5th - eliminated in semi final
83 finished 1st - out in straight sets 40pts and 86 pts - found wanting big time

Geel currently and Nth Melb of that era didnt collapse in a dirty big heap ( alah Freo and StKilda ) they remain competitive in the home and away but are simply not good enough

That’s a good one. Two other periods ring bells:
1. North also from 2000-2007
2. Carlton ‘96-2003 pre- pagan as he wasn’t so good at the blues

Very good sides that remain competitive without putting it all together and slowly decline. Both changed coaches though.


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[Nickoo]

Biggy I agree to a point... I do think we have shown elements of the arrogance of a champion on the slide ... I cant agree that it doesn't matter now.

More than winning the flag or being a serious competitor in the finals... its of the utmost importance that the club's young group is shown the standard that must be meet ..a benchmark that should be aimed at. The list is cooked ? No.. the list is not cooked we have a heap if kids that need to see the right way to go about it.

The gist of your comment reminds me of what I mentioned a while ago maybe last year or the year before ..whether it was Joel or Danger in post season interviews ... that they seemed to not be willing to have a hard look at the failure that had occurred. It was an expansion of the levelness of not letting a good win or a bad loss overly affect the side and the way they went about it.... fine thru the year where there is a week after week but it does risk a minimising of the bad ultimate result and the hard look in the mirror that comes from anger and emotion.

Is it all fluff? Certainly has that vibe... lets see how many of these going well now are going well in May

Did I see a report which indicated that they had a meeting in the last couple of weeks and asked those at the club in 2015 to stand up and only say 10 did? That is 35 odd spots turned over in past three years. Fair whack if true. That’s a young list as well. Feels a bit like 2003-4. I think we beat Bris in the preseason of one of those years.


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[Biggy_Boy]

I particularly like the part where we had the biggest review in years, but we re signed the coach before the review and finals even took place.

Just vacuous buzz phrases that get trotted out every season

It's spin to sell memberships to those who may, after seven years of the same thing, be recognising patterns under the current coaching regime.

Pen an article about Scarlett driving change, just like he did in 2007, and maybe that positive association will get people excited. Unfortunately Scott has promised change on a number of occasions, and whether he's effected it or not, it hasn't resulted in a change in performances when it counts or in certain situations (i.e. coming off a bye), which should surely make you question his capacity to manage his players and people.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

It's spin to sell memberships to those who may, after seven years of the same thing, be recognising patterns under the current coaching regime.

Pen an article about Scarlett driving change, just like he did in 2007, and maybe that positive associating will get people excited. Unfortunately Scott has promised change on a number of occasions, and whether he's effected it or not, it hasn't resulted in a change in performances when it counts or in certain situations (i.e. coming off a bye), which should surely make you question his capacity to manage his players and people.

I do believe that Scarlett is capable pf driving change, and I also believe that desire to drive change, will see see he and Scott butt heads
I hope it doesnt happen, but I can see unrest in the coaches box if things dont improve in the areas mentioned earlier
Scarlett is not one to tolerate mediocrity... Scott on the other hand.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Who honestly thinks Geel has had the cattle since to win a flag - i dont - Josh Walker was CHF in a couple of those finals

Walker was only around in 2014, which is the one I don't think anyone thought Geelong had a chance of winning.

But I'd like to hear the argument against 16/17 prior to finals. The list in those years had been purpose-built for a flag with various trade-ins, DFA acquisitions and mature-aged recruits, at the expensive of quality young players. Their record during the H&A had been good (2nd in both seasons with only percentage off 1st), including in games played against would-be finalists.

But in both years they were a complete non-entity in finals. It's not a matter of taking two second-place finishes and not converting to a premiership; they didn't even make a GF. I would love to hear the argument against these years. Why was Geelong any less a chance in these years relative to the rest of the competition than in 2013? How can we explain it as anything other than the coaching team being unable to get a capable enough list to play finals football.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

I'm hoping that's the straw along with our shithouse finals effort again is what has woke a group within the club that crave success as a team to speak out, they know the road they were placed on with Scott for another 4 years would not see them fulfill their dreams without change.
Scotts reaction on return will tell us how much his authority if any has been undermined,I find it interesting all this comes out while he's not around.

This is what I wonder about coz is it possible to steer the ship in the right direction after a mutiny? LOL ...who's steering the ship?!? ...Is there unity?!? ...Will there ever be complete unison under Scott now that his fallacies have been exposed?!? ...Will Scott be forgiven for his shortcomings?!? ...Can Scott get over his ego?!? ...Will Scott learn from his mistakes? I THINK NOT! Knee jerk reaction to being found out for negligence by Scott, he's set in his self serving ways imo! #ScottNeedsToGo!

 

[Max Milburn]

I think it is a bit of a long shot to suggest we will be champions by December 2019.
But I love the optimism...

 

[you pick one]

What, so they are working on their deficiencies? And it still isn't good enough? Even though the season hasn't started yet?

Colour me surprised.

Funny reply, from what I see here the majority of us that recognized there were deficiencies over the last few years are pleased to see change may at last be on the way.

 

[goyoucatters]

The sooner the Scott thread reopens so that all this captivating 'original' material can be deposited there, the better off the board will be.

Even the ABS crew should admit that the circle-work inherent in these threads that have been purely designed to denigrate Scott and the club is both tiring and tiresome.

And surely those who long to smash Scott ad infinitum could lobby to get 'the thread' reopened. Is it too much to ask that all the embittered vitriol doesn't have to contaminate a bunch of other threads on the board as well?

Sure, posters can come on and bemoan the state of the GFC. We clearly have some issues. Fact is, though, the board itself is manifestly struggling more than the club right now, when every scintilla of news from KP becomes yet another opportune moment for the wailing and gnashing of teeth to be propagated over multiple threads.

As it is, so much of even this thread belongs to the 'tired old arguments' archive. And yet it runs as 'news' here, day after day.

Which ironically ensures that this online incarnation of all things GFC-related is in far more rapid decline than the footy club that is so unstintingly and rapaciously belittled by some here.

 

[you pick one]

The sooner the Scott thread reopens so that all this captivating 'original' material can be deposited there, the better off the board will be.

Even the ABS crew should admit that the circle-work inherent in these threads that have been purely designed to denigrate Scott and the club is both tiring and tiresome.

And surely those who long to smash Scott ad infinitum could lobby to get 'the thread' reopened. Is it too much to ask that all the embittered vitriol doesn't have to contaminate a bunch of other threads on the board as well?

Sure, posters can come on and bemoan the state of the GFC. We clearly have some issues. Fact is, though, the board itself is manifestly struggling more than the club right now, when every scintilla of news from KP becomes yet another opportune moment for the wailing and gnashing of teeth to be propagated over multiple threads.

As it is, so much of even this thread belongs to the 'tired old arguments' archive. And yet it runs as 'news' here, day after day.

Which ironically ensures that this online incarnation of all things GFC-related is in far more rapid decline than the footy club that is so unstintingly and rapaciously belittled by some here.

The OP was broad in content and did specifically mention Scott twice,so people responding with Scott references are on topic,but I agree we should have left the Scott thread open,it keeps all the flies on the one dump at least.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE LIST FFS! Easy to blame the list because of recent success denying our team high picks but it just DOES NOT EQUATE TO TEAM SUCCESS! Look at the teams that have had A LOT of high picks and have been complete failures in recent years; GCS/CFC/SKFC/BFC/FDFC. High draft picks don't necessarily mean that those teams are going to have even good teams. Last season's GF is testament to the fact that you don't need a team of great players to win a Flag! Great TEAMS win Flags! It's the coach's responsibility to make players within the team realize that greatness! Whilst players are required to serve the team's purpose, they're not expected to win games off their own boot! Admittedly, teams with great depth have more chance of success but it mostly about doing the best that they can do for team success and I don't believe that Scott has brought out the best in the Cats since 2011! 2018 Premiers WCE had only 2 players that were top10 picks(3,4) in their GF team and neither of them displayed 'Norm Smith' quality performances! The Cats currently have 5 Top10 draft picks on their list: Rohan(6),JSelwood(7),Henderson(8),Danger(10),Cocky(10) and Tomahawk would have been #1 pick if we hadn't picked him up under the FS Rule!