Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[Biggy_Boy]

The talent he has replaced brick by brick across the entire team without any top draft picks is just insane to be sitting where we are.

Name the players developed under him who were not trade-ins or mature-aged recruits.

 

[Max Milburn]

Name the players developed under him who were not trade-ins or mature-aged recruits.

Every player that wasn't developed by Bomber.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Name the players developed under him who were not trade-ins or mature-aged recruits.

Absolutely mature age players count. There is a lot of development which goes into them once they arrive. Scott turned Stewart into an AA player from a local GFC league player and kelly from a WAFL player to what some are saying a potential brownlow contender. So absolutely it counts.



To answer your question basically the entire team and you can even thrown Hawkins in there which Scott developed, not Thompson.

Hawkins was borderline delisted before Scott turned him around in 2011.

Only ones who don’t count are selwood Taylor and that’s it.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Its a massive 'if', but if he manages to take them to a Flag this year, he will be the best coach I've seen in my lifetime at Geelong.

Will have done as much as Bomber with less.

With less? Scott has always had a good solid list of players at his disposal, first because he took over Bomber's side and then because Geelong was able to recruit a bunch of established players. Scott came into Geelong when it was a powerhouse, in premiership contention, financially stable and with quality people all around. Bomber came around when the club was mired in mediocrity and had a list of also-rans and kids. He built a premiership-standard list and took it to two flags personally, and then the list was good enough to win another one without him. He didn't get players like Dangerfield handed to him.

I know you might be sore about Bomber's association with the drug saga. I know that's soured perceptions of him and tarnished his reputation, but we have to be honest here. He's the best coach the club had in modern history, perhaps of all time, and it would take something amazing from Scott to ever come close. Scott has maintained a stable ship since 2011, but that ship doesn't exist without Thompson and posters would do well to remember that.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

With less? Scott has always had a good solid list of players at his disposal, first because he took over Bomber's side and then because Geelong was able to recruit a bunch of established players. Scott came into Geelong when it was a powerhouse, in premiership contention, financially stable and with quality people all around. Bomber came around when the club was mired in mediocrity and had a list of also-rans and kids. He built a premiership-standard list and took it to two flags personally, and then the list was good enough to win another one without him. He didn't get players like Dangerfield handed to him.

I know you might be sore about Bomber's association with the drug saga. I know that's soured perceptions of him and tarnished his reputation, but we have to be honest here. He's the best coach the club had in modern history, perhaps of all time, and it would take something amazing from Scott to ever come close. Scott has maintained a stable ship since 2011, but that ship doesn't exist without Thompson and posters would do well to remember that.

Bomber in hindsight got the keys to a Ferrari when you look back at it.

He already had a handful of our future champions drafted into the club and was about to have wells hand him Johnson ablett as FS kelly from the draft a year later.

Those players would have been champions wherever they went. It wasn’t bomber Thompson who turned them into stars personally.

Bombers work from 07-10 did not maximize that teams full potential. We shouldn’t have lost 08 or 2010 and it was purely nothing more than poor senior coaching that cost us the flags.

tactically it’s impossible to give bomber above a 5/10 for tactics. Not when he cost us 1-2 premierships that where ours.

Scott didn’t inherit a champion team, but the twilight of one. You only need to look at hawthorn 2016-current to see this is no great inheritance but quite a difficult complex period to steer through.

If Scott gets 2 flags, with a greater win percentage he easily leapfrogs Thompson as he has achieved the same with far less at his disposal.

You only need to look up above to see the players he has lost over 9 years and potentially 2 flags during it.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Wonder how he feels about losing Brad in the fraternity of coaches this year.
Suspect Brad will not be unemployed for too long.

He had a decent run at it brad. Think brad is more than set for life financially. Would make a great assistant coaching addition as well

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Anyone who says that the coach who has the highest winning percentage in the history of VFL/AFL history isn’t a great coach is kidding themselves.

Seriously amazing achievement and adding a premiership to that just puts you up with the greats of coaching period.

It is no small achievement

 

[dazbroncos]

Given the 10-1 record I reckon there needs to be a bit of credit given here.

The job aint done nor is this the point to hang the hat.

The gameplan with this list works.

The preseason plan to shift the focus and train more has worked.

The hold possession and slow it down and then go fast has worked.

There are still issues and the s**t still stinks when dropped - and the clearances can be an issue.

But at 10-1 and 1 game off the bye -its a decent spot to be in.

Plenty of monkeys have thrown poo and thats fine - but to be where we are deserves some credit given to the coaching group for getting this far.

#inb4itswhathappensinfinalsthatcounts.

And im sure there will be the historical 2012 - 2018 wish wash too - some of which is relevant - but we are still 10-1 and thats a fair effort no doubt.

Go Catters

 

[Ricketz]

Given the 10-1 record I reckon there needs to be a bit of credit given here.

The job aint done nor is this the point to hang the hat.

The gameplan with this list works.

The preseason plan to shift the focus and train more has worked.

The hold possession and slow it down and then go fast has worked.

There are still issues and the **** still stinks when dropped - and the clearances can be an issue.

But at 10-1 and 1 game off the bye -its a decent spot to be in.

Plenty of monkeys have thrown poo and thats fine - but to be where we are deserves some credit given to the coaching group for getting this far.

#inb4itswhathappensinfinalsthatcounts.

And im sure there will be the historical 2012 - 2018 wish wash too - some of which is relevant - but we are still 10-1 and thats a fair effort no doubt.

Go Catters

Definitely worth acknowledging. There are many here who have long had faith in his coaching and game plan. There are many who rightly predicted we would significantly improve this year. They probably don't need to acknowledge it, but I bet they do.

Then there are those who follow football based on personality politics. He hasn't changed whatever problem they have with him, so they will still hate on him at every opportunity.

So I agree. Easily the best coach running around at the moment. Madness to consider we could have upgraded at any stage during his tenure.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Given the 10-1 record I reckon there needs to be a bit of credit given here.

The job aint done nor is this the point to hang the hat.

The gameplan with this list works.

The preseason plan to shift the focus and train more has worked.

The hold possession and slow it down and then go fast has worked.

There are still issues and the **** still stinks when dropped - and the clearances can be an issue.

But at 10-1 and 1 game off the bye -its a decent spot to be in.

Plenty of monkeys have thrown poo and thats fine - but to be where we are deserves some credit given to the coaching group for getting this far.

#inb4itswhathappensinfinalsthatcounts.

And im sure there will be the historical 2012 - 2018 wish wash too - some of which is relevant - but we are still 10-1 and thats a fair effort no doubt.

Go Catters

At this point, what would you consider a pass mark for the season?

 

[Boxhead_31]

Wouldn't mind if the club were to reach out to Bolton and offer him a position.
He seems to be a good guy who was in a really bad situation at Carlton, would make a good development coach and would also be able to impart a bit of the IP he picked up at Hawthorn

 

[Max Milburn]

Wouldn't mind if the club were to reach out to Bolton and offer him a position.
He seems to be a good guy who was in a really bad situation at Carlton, would make a good development coach and would also be able to impart a bit of the IP he picked up at Hawthorn

How many stray puppies did you take home as a kid?

 

[Benny78]

If he can keep this form all through finals instead of falling apart then he gets a pass mark from me. Really good coach other than our teams performance in finals and some baffling decisions/structures that arise when we're losing. Another goaless half in finals and things will never change

 

[Turbocat]

IF CS was not sign at this point in time ... just how much would he be worth for a Carlton to grab?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Name the players developed under him who were not trade-ins or mature-aged recruits.

It's not correct to discount the mature agers. Stewart and Menegola are not the same players they were when drafted. Kelly you could argue was already great when drafted but he has also improved. It's also not correct to discount trade ins, given that Stanley had to learn an entirely new role.

Blitz has been through several iterations of development which can't be ignored, people forget his poor disposal back in the day. Then looking at recent draftees Miers, Narkle, and Henry were nothing picks for players no one else wanted but they have been developed into AFL best 22 or close to. O'Connor as a category B irish kid needed to be taught to kick but is now one of our most promising talents.

I'm just not sure the argument that he doesn't develop talent stacks up when he is being given last choice players and making them all australians, rising star nominees, and top 5 brownlow favourites really stacks up.

 

[PatrickBateman]

I understand why Collingwood is being talked up after last years GF

So do I.

Finals is a different scenario, especially these days, which is why NONE of the recent premiership winners have gone in as favourties. You need to be playing relentless football, running hard, contesting hard, going when it's your turn every time, etc. Structures that won you through mean nothing if the side doesn't work harder than their opponent - fact. The Tigers found this out the hard way last year when Collingwood pulled their pants down, a Prelim they assumed was a win. Nope, a season of dominance down the toilet. The Dogs did it to everyone in 2016, the Tigers did it to everyone in 2017.

Look at Melbourne. Gone from world beaters to a side looking at benching senior players in favour of youth 8 months later..? It's the same team! The only thing that's changed since last year is their attitude. They're an arrogant group IMO, a group who thought success was imminent after last year. Fail.

Until I see different, I'm assuming we'll struggle in finals. I don't see how anyone could think different. If Collingwood get to the Grand Final this year (likely), beating them at the MCG will be exceptionally difficult for anyone.

 

[xtatik222k]

Look at Melbourne. Gone from world beaters to a side looking at benching senior players in favour of youth 8 months later..? It's the same team! The only thing that's changed since last year is their attitude. They're an arrogant group IMO, a group who thought success was imminent after last year. Fail.

Until I see different, I'm assuming we'll struggle in finals. I don't see how anyone could think different. If Collingwood get to the Grand Final this year (likely), beating them at the MCG will be exceptionally difficult for anyone.

100% correct. We've no reason to believe our finals campaign this year (if we make it) will be any different to years gone by. This season could be one that changes the tide. I hope so, but when was the last time we played three huge finals-pressure games in a row and came out on top every time? We've only done that once under Scott, and in his first year when a very seasoned and professional team were essentially coaching themselves. Scott didn't earn that premiership. If we somehow win this year, it will be 100% earned.

 

[steady2]

100% correct. We've no reason to believe our finals campaign this year (if we make it) will be any different to years gone by. This season could be one that changes the tide. I hope so, but when was the last time we played three huge finals-pressure games in a row and came out on top every time? We've only done that once under Scott, and in his first year when a very seasoned and professional team were essentially coaching themselves. Scott didn't earn that premiership. If we somehow win this year, it will be 100% earned.

Another myth. Not only denying Scott's ability as a coach but denying him the premiership he coached. Take it to the Scott thread, that is what it's for.

 

[xtatik222k]

Another myth. Not only denying Scott's ability as a coach but denying him the premiership he coached. Take it to the Scott thread, that is what it's for.

You're not unpacking the logic behind what I'm saying. I'll make it easier for you:

- I'm not saying Chris Scott didn't do anything that year
- I'm not saying Chris Scott didn't coach
- I'm not saying the playing group did their own thing and didn't need a coach (The phrase I used "coached themselves" was a metaphor)

What I am saying is the following:

- Chris Scott inherited one of the best teams to ever play the game, and I'd honestly struggle to imagine any coach getting in the way of those guys winning that flag. He inherited a behemoth tumbling downhill toward the finish line. All he had to do was help stay the course.

One can't be intellectually honest and suggest that premiership belonged to him in the same way Hardwick's belongs to him, or Beveridge, or Simpson.

I like Chris Scott - I think he's a smart bloke and seems like a decent guy. I'm not bringing an agenda to the argument - merely acknowledging the fact that he wasn't as pivotal in that Grand Final as other coaches have been. An analogy would be the difference between somebody being made CEO of Toyota and furthering their financial success, as opposed to actually being Elon Musk and building a car company yourself from the ground-up. They are not analogous equivalents. Chris Scott was handed the keys to the kingdom with that team. Sure, he still had to not totally screw it up in those 12 months, and he didn't, which is admirable. And he had to get a lot right. But ask yourself this honest question, and I feel like you'll get the point:

If the Cats won the premiership this season, which of the two flags would mean the most to Chris Scott?

We both know the answer to that question, and we know why. To suggest otherwise is just obfuscation, in my opinion.

Anyway, as it turns out, I'll be in Melbourne for this game and I might even catch the end of it after flying in. Hopefully we're up at 3qt!

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

We've no reason to believe our finals campaign this year (if we make it) will be any different to years gone by.

I don't fully agree with you. Given our current position and if we beat Richmond this week, then I think it's fair to accept the Cats will figure prominently in finals this year and probably win some games. You can't discard everything you've seen this year so far based on the the finals of the last few seasons. That's an equal folly to thinking we're currently got the premiership in the bag. But can our lads can win the flag? Well, that's an altogether different kettle of fish. It's too soon to call at this point IMO. Let's see how they're playing in round 22. But given what we've seen so far this year this season, I don't think it's unreasonable to have cautious optimism at this point.

 

[Max Milburn]

- Chris Scott inherited one of the best teams to ever play the game, and I'd honestly struggle to imagine any coach getting in the way of those guys winning that flag. He inherited a behemoth tumbling downhill toward the finish line. All he had to do was help stay the course.

How did Bomber not win in 2010 then?

 

[PatrickBateman]

given that the team is quite clearly different, and playing a different brand of footy to last year, then the expectation should be that the finals will be approached ion a different manner.

To just say that a restructured team and manner of playing hasn't proven anything in finals, when obviously they haven't played finals, is taking the piss out of "glass half empty".

I get that, sure. But for how many years now has the side 'changed their brand', and 'restructured the team', not to mention altered personnel. Yet still struggle to meet their opposition in terms of intent in finals. It's a horrible record.

Like I said, I won't be surprised if they do fail. I didn't say they will.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I get that, sure. But for how many years now has the side 'changed their brand', and 'restructured the team', not to mention altered personnel. Yet still struggle to meet their opposition in terms of intent in finals. It's a horrible record.

Like I said, I won't be surprised if they do fail. I didn't say they will.

Yeah it has happened before and I've been more cynical than anyone.
This year does feel a lot different for me though.
I think its because we're able to score goals against the flow, which for me has been our biggest problem.

 

[catswhiskers]

Apologies [SNIP]

If the Cats won the premiership this season, which of the two flags would mean the most to Chris Scott?

If I can reply to a hypothetical (winning this year is still a 1 in 6 chance IMO) .......................I reckon he would take great satisfaction in both.

One steering the ship and not pushing his way too hard - the second, using less time than most coaches to get back to the only prize on offer.

 

[PatrickBateman]

This year does feel a lot different for me though.

Definitely different... Let's hope!