Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[steady2]

You're not unpacking the logic behind what I'm saying. I'll make it easier for you:

- I'm not saying Chris Scott didn't do anything that year
- I'm not saying Chris Scott didn't coach
- I'm not saying the playing group did their own thing and didn't need a coach (The phrase I used "coached themselves" was a metaphor)

I do not think you understand what a metaphor is, the implication from your statement is quite clear. Your patronising explanation of your logic being contrary to your statement is interesting 'logic'.

What I am saying is the following:

- Chris Scott inherited one of the best teams to ever play the game, and I'd honestly struggle to imagine any coach getting in the way of those guys winning that flag. He inherited a behemoth tumbling downhill toward the finish line. All he had to do was help stay the course.

Incorrect. He inherited a team which had lost its premiership coach and best player. An ageing team which was thrashed in the Prelim and written off by most as being probable finalists but unlikely premiers.

One can't be intellectually honest and suggest that premiership belonged to him in the same way Hardwick's belongs to him, or Beveridge, or Simpson.

Yes the circumstances were different. Putting a qualitative value in ranking Scott's 'ownership' as being less than others is your subjective view. The question remains could any other coach have gotten that team to a premiership? I do not know, but Scott did. I won't devalue his contribution because they were a champion team which he had been given.

I like Chris Scott - I think he's a smart bloke and seems like a decent guy. I'm not bringing an agenda to the argument - merely acknowledging the fact that he wasn't as pivotal in that Grand Final as other coaches have been...

A continuation of your argument, which is subjective and irrelevant. Scott said straight after the game, "You cannot overestimate the part played by luck in winning a premiership". Although he was not talking of inheriting a champion team but other factors. Relatively few injuries, the opponent had relatively more injuries and so on.

If the Cats won the premiership this season, which of the two flags would mean the most to Chris Scott?

Most probably it would be the team this season, since it is NOW and far more the team he has built. The question is irrelevant to your original claim that "The team coached itself".

 

[catempire]

We have:

4 players left from the 2012 EF side
6 players left from the 2013 finals side
6 players left from the 2014 finals side
14 players left from the 2016 finals side (only 11 of those now best 22)
17 players left from the 2017 finals side (only 14 of those now best 22)
20 players left from the 2018 EF side (only 16 of those now best 22)

Whatever happens this year, the relevance of performances from more than three years ago are manifestly irrelevant given the change in personnel and even from last year's finals campaign we are likely to see at least 5-6 new faces in the team.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

If I can reply to a hypothetical (winning this year is still a 1 in 6 chance IMO) .......................I reckon he would take great satisfaction in both.

One steering the ship and not pushing his way too hard - the second, using less time than most coaches to get back to the only prize on offer.

I think alot of supporters incredibly forget the opening game of the 2011 season - beat StK by a point at the death - in a shocking game - what was it 5 goals to 4 To give Scott virtually no credit for the 2011 flag is pathetic in my opinion - say another bloke had come in at the time - perhaps Hinkley - Geel might be stuck on 8 flags

As for the mature age recruits and general drafting - Scott deserves alot of credit - i heard a radio interview about a year or so back with Graham Wright head of recruiting with Hawthorn - and he said Allistar Clarkson is all over the Hawthorn recruiting - said Al has a big say in it - and has the final say - they were Wrights words . So you would expect Scott does the same at Geel -

 

[xtatik222k]

I do not think you understand what a metaphor is, the implication from your statement is quite clear.

Hahah. I hate when people on the internet take the semantic high road, but I did year 12 English too, so I'll indulge you.
'Metaphor' dictionary definition:

"a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable."

Players don't coach themselves, hence 'metaphor'.

I think we just have different opinions, mate. There's no need to be a tool about it.

 

[FredLeDeux]

We have:

4 players left from the 2012 EF side
6 players left from the 2013 finals side
6 players left from the 2014 finals side
14 players left from the 2016 finals side (only 11 of those now best 22)
17 players left from the 2017 finals side (only 14 of those now best 22)
20 players left from the 2018 EF side (only 16 of those now best 22)

Whatever happens this year, the relevance of performances from more than three years ago are manifestly irrelevant given the change in personnel and even from last year's finals campaign we are likely to see at least 5-6 new faces in the team.

And that's without taking into account the differences in all the opposition teams in those games.

The point goes more than double, of course, for the so-called bye hoodoo.

 

[Ricketz]

You're not unpacking the logic behind what I'm saying. I'll make it easier for you:

- I'm not saying Chris Scott didn't do anything that year
- I'm not saying Chris Scott didn't coach
- I'm not saying the playing group did their own thing and didn't need a coach (The phrase I used "coached themselves" was a metaphor)

What I am saying is the following:

- Chris Scott inherited one of the best teams to ever play the game, and I'd honestly struggle to imagine any coach getting in the way of those guys winning that flag. He inherited a behemoth tumbling downhill toward the finish line. All he had to do was help stay the course.

One can't be intellectually honest and suggest that premiership belonged to him in the same way Hardwick's belongs to him, or Beveridge, or Simpson.

I like Chris Scott - I think he's a smart bloke and seems like a decent guy. I'm not bringing an agenda to the argument - merely acknowledging the fact that he wasn't as pivotal in that Grand Final as other coaches have been. An analogy would be the difference between somebody being made CEO of Toyota and furthering their financial success, as opposed to actually being Elon Musk and building a car company yourself from the ground-up. They are not analogous equivalents. Chris Scott was handed the keys to the kingdom with that team. Sure, he still had to not totally screw it up in those 12 months, and he didn't, which is admirable. And he had to get a lot right. But ask yourself this honest question, and I feel like you'll get the point:

If the Cats won the premiership this season, which of the two flags would mean the most to Chris Scott?

We both know the answer to that question, and we know why. To suggest otherwise is just obfuscation, in my opinion.

Anyway, as it turns out, I'll be in Melbourne for this game and I might even catch the end of it after flying in. Hopefully we're up at 3qt!

I think everybody understands your logic. Saying it twice as long doesn't change that it is wrong and we don't agree with it.

 

[xtatik222k]

I think everybody understands your logic. Saying it twice as long doesn't change that it is wrong and we don't agree with it.

No worries, mate. Agree to disagree.

 

[steady2]

...
I think we just have different opinions, mate. There's no need to be a tool about it.

Name calling won't help your argument.

 

[cats_09]

May need to acknowledge Scott's role or impact on our goal kicking this year:

Geelong has deliberately played skillful goal kickers ahead of the ball, taking easier shots inside 50m and dedicating training time to goal kicking under fatigue.

The bulk of this work is overseen by forwards coach Corey Enright and the main man, Scott...

...And the Cats have five of the most accurate goal kickers in the league in Tom Hawkins (31 goals 12 behinds), Gary Rohan (20.6), Gary Ablett (20.12), Miers (12.5) and Mitch Duncan (12.3).

Taking into account the position of the kick and the pressure the players are under, West Coast (+5.6 per cent accuracy differential) and Geelong (+4.8 per cent) are streets ahead of next best GWS Giants (0.5 per cent), according to Champion Data.

That includes in-play shots, such as kicks on the run and snaps, as well as set shots.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...g/news-story/aaf603cfa38459dee32ae9301f2847eb

 

[Max Milburn]

May need to acknowledge Scott's role or impact on our goal kicking this year:



https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...g/news-story/aaf603cfa38459dee32ae9301f2847eb

Well, it must be due to Scott, because a champion defender simply cannot be a good forward coach.

 

[Catters 070911]

With less? Scott has always had a good solid list of players at his disposal, first because he took over Bomber's side and then because Geelong was able to recruit a bunch of established players. Scott came into Geelong when it was a powerhouse, in premiership contention, financially stable and with quality people all around. Bomber came around when the club was mired in mediocrity and had a list of also-rans and kids. He built a premiership-standard list and took it to two flags personally, and then the list was good enough to win another one without him. He didn't get players like Dangerfield handed to him.

I know you might be sore about Bomber's association with the drug saga. I know that's soured perceptions of him and tarnished his reputation, but we have to be honest here. He's the best coach the club had in modern history, perhaps of all time, and it would take something amazing from Scott to ever come close. Scott has maintained a stable ship since 2011, but that ship doesn't exist without Thompson and posters would do well to remember that.

Posters here have to understand where BiggyBoy has come from.

From day one, he never wanted Chris Scott at Geelong, he wanted Ken Hinkley to coach us, because Hinkley played for the club (forgetting that our last player to coach the club, John Devine, was a mammoth failure, and that CS has outcoached Hinkley in all but one game when Geelong and Port have met).

Even since Scott's appointment, Biggy Boy has minimized, dismissed, tried to explain away and done everything to demonize Chris Scott. He denies Scott as a premiership coach, because he took over a strong team (forgetting that Blight and Ayres also took over strong teams, and Bomber had to build a list, but took much longer to do it then he should have (he was too busy stealing player's girlfriends), and was lucky not to get sacked.

Deep down, Biggy Boy would not be enjoying this season. He is hoping against hope that we fail in finals again, so that he can blame all the ills of the club on Chris Scott, a man he has hated since day one (instead of the incredible list of players we have had at our disposal, who seem to freeze in finals and don't lay a tackle, something which all players have the ability to do).

Biggy Boy hopes we fail again, because while many here wants a premiership, people like BiggyBoy and BlightyCats (who bags Scott for not winning us flags, but has a username of another guy who failed to coach us to flags) wait to celebrate another day, a day they hope for, when Chris Scott is sacked. They are willing to sacrifice seeing the team succeed to get rid of a coach they never wanted appointed, and then the next coach get credit for the list Scott has built now (when the next coach will only be coaching a team that Scott built, like Scott coached a team that Bomber built).

This post is an attempt by BiggyBoy to cover his ass, if we win the flag this year. He is preparing his excuses, and planning ways to make any premiership success nothing to do with Chris Scott. I bet he fast-forwards the DVD of the 2011 GF whenever they show Chris Scott, and says that Bomber would have beaten the Magpies by more. This is his "get-out" clause, because if Scott gets the flag this year, when only five of Bomber's players are left in the team, then Biggy Boy has nothing. NOTHING! He can't dismiss this flag as someone else's work (but surely he will try). Anything rather than admit that he would be wrong if it happens, and that Chris Scott is a BETTER coach than he wants him to be.

I hope we do win the flag. Because I want to see the team always succeed. Because we have played better than the rest this year. Because players like Miers, Dangerfield, Rowan, Rata etc will be premiership heroes for the first time. Because Joel Selwood would be elevated to greatness by being a four-time premiership hero. Because we can stick it to Richmond, Hawthorn and WCE flogs. Because Chris Scott will be vindicated, and get his dues as a great coach. And if that day occurs, I hope Biggy Boy apologizes about all he has said about Chris Scott, acknowledges that Scott is a great coach (and a better coach than Hinkley would have been) and then, after that, I hope Biggy Boy never posts on these boards again, as he doesn't deserve to enjoy our success, since he has sacrificed it for wanting Scott to fail, and he is a troll who should go and post on another club's board who has a coach he actually respects (maybe he should piss off and wax lyrical about Ken Hinkley, after another failed finals campaign with Port).

Also, the fact that Biggy Boy defends a druggie like Bomber shows what he values as a person's character in life.

 

[Mr Meow]

Posters here have to understand where BiggyBoy has come from.

From day one, he never wanted Chris Scott at Geelong, he wanted Ken Hinkley to coach us, because Hinkley played for the club (forgetting that our last player to coach the club, John Devine, was a mammoth failure, and that CS has outcoached Hinkley in all but one game when Geelong and Port have met).

Even since Scott's appointment, Biggy Boy has minimized, dismissed, tried to explain away and done everything to demonize Chris Scott. He denies Scott as a premiership coach, because he took over a strong team (forgetting that Blight and Ayres also took over strong teams, and Bomber had to build a list, but took much longer to do it then he should have (he was too busy stealing player's girlfriends), and was lucky not to get sacked.

Deep down, Biggy Boy would not be enjoying this season. He is hoping against hope that we fail in finals again, so that he can blame all the ills of the club on Chris Scott, a man he has hated since day one (instead of the incredible list of players we have had at our disposal, who seem to freeze in finals and don't lay a tackle, something which all players have the ability to do).

Biggy Boy hopes we fail again, because while many here wants a premiership, people like BiggyBoy and BlightyCats (who bags Scott for not winning us flags, but has a username of another guy who failed to coach us to flags) wait to celebrate another day, a day they hope for, when Chris Scott is sacked. They are willing to sacrifice seeing the team succeed to get rid of a coach they never wanted appointed, and then the next coach get credit for the list Scott has built now (when the next coach will only be coaching a team that Scott built, like Scott coached a team that Bomber built).

This post is an attempt by BiggyBoy to cover his ass, if we win the flag this year. He is preparing his excuses, and planning ways to make any premiership success nothing to do with Chris Scott. I bet he fast-forwards the DVD of the 2011 GF whenever they show Chris Scott, and says that Bomber would have beaten the Magpies by more. This is his "get-out" clause, because if Scott gets the flag this year, when only five of Bomber's players are left in the team, then Biggy Boy has nothing. NOTHING! He can't dismiss this flag as someone else's work (but surely he will try). Anything rather than admit that he would be wrong if it happens, and that Chris Scott is a BETTER coach than he wants him to be.

I hope we do win the flag. Because I want to see the team always succeed. Because we have played better than the rest this year. Because players like Miers, Dangerfield, Rowan, Rata etc will be premiership heroes for the first time. Because Joel Selwood would be elevated to greatness by being a four-time premiership hero. Because we can stick it to Richmond, Hawthorn and WCE flogs. Because Chris Scott will be vindicated, and get his dues as a great coach. And if that day occurs, I hope Biggy Boy apologizes about all he has said about Chris Scott, acknowledges that Scott is a great coach (and a better coach than Hinkley would have been) and then, after that, I hope Biggy Boy never posts on these boards again, as he doesn't deserve to enjoy our success, since he has sacrificed it for wanting Scott to fail, and he is a troll who should go and post on another club's board who has a coach he actually respects (maybe he should ******** and wax lyrical about Ken Hinkley, after another failed finals campaign with Port).

Also, the fact that Biggy Boy defends a druggie like Bomber shows what he values as a person's character in life.

This is absolute nonsense. The likes of Biggy and cynical are hoping for a Geelong flag just as much as the most ardent Scott fan. I'm sure they remain steadfastly sceptical until Geelong actually perform well in finals again and that's perfectly reasonable. Most other less vocal critics would still be thinking the same, including myself.

As for saying particular supporters don't deserve success, absolute hogwash. It says more about you that the key focus from the team's improvement is to attack fellow fans, than to enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Catters 070911]

This is absolute nonsense. The likes of Biggy and cynical are hoping for a Geelong flag just as much as the most ardent Scott fan. I'm sure they remain steadfastly sceptical until Geelong actually perform well in finals again and that's perfectly reasonable. Most other less vocal critics would still be thinking the same, including myself.

As for saying particular supporters don't deserve success, absolute hogwash. It says more about you that the key focus from the team's improvement is to attack fellow fans, than to enjoy it for what it is.

I wasn't directing the criticism towards you, so you have no reason to stick your nose into it.

I can't understand why you want to be a flog about this, unless you are BiggyBoy posting under another name.

Do you think BiggyBoy would ever have your back, or defend you, so your loyalty is wasted on him?

I can't wait for Geelong to win a flag, and for BiggyBoy to either admit he is wrong or piss off these boards.

 

[romeohwho]

This is absolute nonsense. The likes of Biggy and cynical are hoping for a Geelong flag just as much as the most ardent Scott fan. I'm sure they remain steadfastly sceptical until Geelong actually perform well in finals again and that's perfectly reasonable. Most other less vocal critics would still be thinking the same, including myself.

As for saying particular supporters don't deserve success, absolute hogwash. It says more about you that the key focus from the team's improvement is to attack fellow fans, than to enjoy it for what it is.

Except that’s exactly the point and presumably why people find some posters frustrating.
Geelong so far this year has performed way above expectations and so, rather than remaining ‘sceptical’, perhaps acknowledging how much progress the club has made would be good. Doesn’t happen- it’s always half empty.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This is absolute nonsense. The likes of Biggy and cynical are hoping for a Geelong flag just as much as the most ardent Scott fan. I'm sure they remain steadfastly sceptical until Geelong actually perform well in finals again and that's perfectly reasonable. Most other less vocal critics would still be thinking the same, including myself.

As for saying particular supporters don't deserve success, absolute hogwash. It says more about you that the key focus from the team's improvement is to attack fellow fans, than to enjoy it for what it is.

Nope disagree.

Can distinctly remember us beating hawthorn after the siren in a 2016 final on the MCG and all they did was complain.

Any geelong supporter who whines and sulks about us beating hawthorn at the MCG in a final and can’t celebrate it doesn’t fit the criteria for a geelong supporter period.

The label of GF or it’s a fail is a troll call.

 

[dazbroncos]

This thread is about the 200 games.

All other crap will be moved to that pile of crap....

In fact.... hold please...


GO Catters

 

[PhatBoy]

100% correct. We've no reason to believe our finals campaign this year (if we make it) will be any different to years gone by. This season could be one that changes the tide. I hope so, but when was the last time we played three huge finals-pressure games in a row and came out on top every time? We've only done that once under Scott, and in his first year when a very seasoned and professional team were essentially coaching themselves. Scott didn't earn that premiership. If we somehow win this year, it will be 100% earned.

Didn’t earn a premiership?

F*** off.

Worst post I’ve ever seen on this forum and that is saying something.

 

[PhatBoy]

Posters here have to understand where BiggyBoy has come from.

From day one, he never wanted Chris Scott at Geelong, he wanted Ken Hinkley to coach us, because Hinkley played for the club (forgetting that our last player to coach the club, John Devine, was a mammoth failure, and that CS has outcoached Hinkley in all but one game when Geelong and Port have met).

Even since Scott's appointment, Biggy Boy has minimized, dismissed, tried to explain away and done everything to demonize Chris Scott. He denies Scott as a premiership coach, because he took over a strong team (forgetting that Blight and Ayres also took over strong teams, and Bomber had to build a list, but took much longer to do it then he should have (he was too busy stealing player's girlfriends), and was lucky not to get sacked.

Deep down, Biggy Boy would not be enjoying this season. He is hoping against hope that we fail in finals again, so that he can blame all the ills of the club on Chris Scott, a man he has hated since day one (instead of the incredible list of players we have had at our disposal, who seem to freeze in finals and don't lay a tackle, something which all players have the ability to do).

Biggy Boy hopes we fail again, because while many here wants a premiership, people like BiggyBoy and BlightyCats (who bags Scott for not winning us flags, but has a username of another guy who failed to coach us to flags) wait to celebrate another day, a day they hope for, when Chris Scott is sacked. They are willing to sacrifice seeing the team succeed to get rid of a coach they never wanted appointed, and then the next coach get credit for the list Scott has built now (when the next coach will only be coaching a team that Scott built, like Scott coached a team that Bomber built).

This post is an attempt by BiggyBoy to cover his ass, if we win the flag this year. He is preparing his excuses, and planning ways to make any premiership success nothing to do with Chris Scott. I bet he fast-forwards the DVD of the 2011 GF whenever they show Chris Scott, and says that Bomber would have beaten the Magpies by more. This is his "get-out" clause, because if Scott gets the flag this year, when only five of Bomber's players are left in the team, then Biggy Boy has nothing. NOTHING! He can't dismiss this flag as someone else's work (but surely he will try). Anything rather than admit that he would be wrong if it happens, and that Chris Scott is a BETTER coach than he wants him to be.

I hope we do win the flag. Because I want to see the team always succeed. Because we have played better than the rest this year. Because players like Miers, Dangerfield, Rowan, Rata etc will be premiership heroes for the first time. Because Joel Selwood would be elevated to greatness by being a four-time premiership hero. Because we can stick it to Richmond, Hawthorn and WCE flogs. Because Chris Scott will be vindicated, and get his dues as a great coach. And if that day occurs, I hope Biggy Boy apologizes about all he has said about Chris Scott, acknowledges that Scott is a great coach (and a better coach than Hinkley would have been) and then, after that, I hope Biggy Boy never posts on these boards again, as he doesn't deserve to enjoy our success, since he has sacrificed it for wanting Scott to fail, and he is a troll who should go and post on another club's board who has a coach he actually respects (maybe he should ******** and wax lyrical about Ken Hinkley, after another failed finals campaign with Port).

Also, the fact that Biggy Boy defends a druggie like Bomber shows what he values as a person's character in life.

Poty

 

[geelong_crazy26]

For all those posters who want to claim Chris Scott has a great list to work with once he took over need a reality check. Post generational groups are a very difficult period to coach through and near impossible to sustain success.

Let’s have a look at Brisbane 2005 with the following stars on their list.

Voss
Akermanis
Black
Lepitch
Power
Bradshaw
Brad scott
Chris scott
Lappin
Keating
Mcgrath

Yet they bombed out and finished 11th... they kept a lot of these players over the following seasons with them slowly dropping off, with things getting shitter and shitter.

Yet how could this happen with clearly such a great “list” at your disposal??

You look at what Chris Scott was able to do post our champion era, it’s outstanding and a phenomenal achievement

 

[finale]

The other thing you have to consider is that in 2011 Collingwood had arguably their best side ever, and yet, they were thoroughly outplayed and more importantly out-coached THREE TIMES, including the most important game of the year. It was no fluke. This is without considering Geelong had been smashed in the previous year's prelim by the same Collingwood side and had lost the best player in the game. Those that say that 2011 premiership wasn't earned are kidding themselves.

 

[King Cold]

Out of all coaches Chris Scott has ever coached against, he has a losing record against only ONE coach.

There is a reason he was voted hardest coach to coach against.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

I'm just happy Chris and the club finally took some of our advice and improved an area that had been lacking and obvious to a large group of us. Let's see how this team goes this finals series - the pressure will be on for sure to get the finals monkey off our back and prove that Chris can perform on the big stage. We even got him an Ablett !!

 

[Catman]

I'm just happy Chris and the club finally took some of our advice and improved an area that had been lacking and obvious to a large group of us. Let's see how this team goes this finals series - the pressure will be on for sure to get the finals monkey off our back and prove that Chris can perform on the big stage. We even got him an Ablett !!

Don't think they heeded the fans advice. I'm sure they would have been acutely aware of the team's weaknesses. If fans and journos can spot it, there's no doubt those with greater football minds would have seen it too.

 

[Catsace]

For all those posters who want to claim Chris Scott has a great list to work with once he took over need a reality check. Post generational groups are a very difficult period to coach through and near impossible to sustain success.

Let’s have a look at Brisbane 2005 with the following stars on their list.

Voss
Akermanis
Black
Lepitch
Power
Bradshaw
Brad scott
Chris scott
Lappin
Keating
Mcgrath

Yet they bombed out and finished 11th... they kept a lot of these players over the following seasons with them slowly dropping off, with things getting ****ter and ****ter.

Yet how could this happen with clearly such a great “list” at your disposal??

You look at what Chris Scott was able to do post our champion era, it’s outstanding and a phenomenal achievement

Forgot Jonathon Brown at his peak age in mid 20's at that stage too! Actually a good analogy, they really did have a brilliant basis of their side, and the Voss, Black, Aker et al were only the ages of say Jimmy Bartel etc in 2011-12 or so at the time. Geelong has vastly outperformed the Lions as a post-Flag era group, of course though with the ever-present caveat of not adding a Flag, and having a disappointing Finals record.

But then again, you can't make finals without a very good H & A record. At least being up there with plenty of shots at the big one means that a chance can come by when you're the best in the group.

 

[Catsace]

The other thing you have to consider is that in 2011 Collingwood had arguably their best side ever, and yet, they were thoroughly outplayed and more importantly out-coached THREE TIMES, including the most important game of the year. It was no fluke. This is without considering Geelong had been smashed in the previous year's prelim by the same Collingwood side and had lost the best player in the game. Those that say that 2011 premiership wasn't earned are kidding themselves.

Will always remain a unique feat. Cats winning the flag, beating a side that had a 22-3 record for that season...the three defeats at the hands of the same club being Geelong. You'd have to go back to maybe some of those funny challenge seasons for a similar scenario. None of the 15 other sides could lay a glove on the Pies....who lost by 3 points to the Hawks in late 2010, and had two draws including the 2010 GF after the middle of 2010 up to the end of the 2011 season. They were a side who were 20-1 and a percentage of 180 before that huge Cat smashing, they were heading towards the most dominant season of all time up until Scott's Cats dealt with them.