CHRIS SCOTT

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Herne Hill Hammer

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A question that Geelong need to seriously ask themselves, is what impact Kardinia Park has had on their ladder position over the past decade.

Are these top 4 finishes a bit of a false economy?

Are they really a 6-10th type team, having their win/loss artificially bloated by the advantage they get in the fixture?


If they are, then chasing guys like Steven and Higgins is folly.

Maybe it's not a finals thing as such. Maybe they're just actually that good?
A decade ago they were winning h&a games and premierships against all comers at all venues so your statement doesn't even make sense.

Where else should they play these games? Perhaps GC can play all their games at the GABBA and have even fewer people turning up.

A decade ago they were only getting 7 games per year at Kardinia due to being forced to play home games at Marvel while the AFL was paying it off. Awesome, we'll let Marvel tenant clubs sell of home games all over the state and country so they can make some money and just fixture Geelong in to make up the shortfall.

In 2008 Geelong won 21 of 22 h&a games, 8 of them were at Kardinia so that means they won the other 13 away from Kardinia. 13 wins would have seen you finish 4th on the ladder in that h&a season of 2008. In every other year since, with the exception of 2012 (would have finished 9th), 13 wins has been good enough to finish anywhere from 5th to 8th.

Top 4 finishes around the 2013 - 2014 mark were a false economy due to GC and GWS entering the competition 2 to 4 years earlier and depriving any up and comers of access to the top end talent. Imagine being a s**t side in 2010 and seeing Gold Coast coming in and having 8 of the top 13 picks, including 1, 2 and 3. Imagine being a s**t side in 2011 and seeing GWS come in and having 11 of the first 14 picks, including 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Imagine being s**t in both those years with aspirations of hitting the draft and climbing up the ladder.

This obsession with Kardinia has really only started the last couple of years because Richmond supporters were crying. After 30+ long years they were finally starting to look decent, their fans were coming out of the woodwork after an extended hibernation and they were whinging that they had to play down there and other clubs didn't. It never really bother anyone for over half a century until they became really good and were almost unbeatable there (as well as everywhere else)

In summary, Scott is a s**t coach and Geelong aren't as good as they were back in the day, it has zero to do with where they play their home games.
 
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beema limapep

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A decade ago they were winning h&a games and premierships against all comers at all venues so your statement doesn't even make sense.

Where else should they play these games? Perhaps GC can play all their games at the GABBA and have even fewer people turning up.

A decade ago they were only getting 7 games per year at Kardinia due to being forced to play home games at Marvel while the AFL was paying it off. Awesome, we'll let Marvel tenant clubs sell of home games all over the state and country so they can make some money and just fixture Geelong in to make up the shortfall.

Top 4 finishes around the 2013 - 2014 mark were a false economy due to GC and GWS entering the competition 2 to 4 years earlier and depriving any up and comers of access to the top end talent. Imagine being a s**t side in 2010 and seeing Gold Coast coming in and having 8 of the top 13 picks, including 1, 2 and 3. Imagine being a s**t side in 2011 and seeing GWS come in and having 11 of the first 14 picks, including 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Imagine being s**t in both those years with aspirations of hitting the draft and climbing up the ladder.

This obsession with Kardinia has really only started the last couple of years because Richmond supporters were crying. After 30+ long years they were finally starting to look decent, their fans were coming out of the woodwork after an extended hibernation and they were whinging that they had to play down there and other clubs didn't. It never really bother anyone for over half a century until they became really good and were almost unbeatable there (as well as everywhere else)

In summary, Scott is a s**t coach and Geelong aren't as good as they were back in the day, it has zero to do with where they play their home games.
The sooner you realise its a ground issue and a coach issue, the sooner you will stop serving up the same results every year.

Only in a culture of playing the victim would Geelong supporter imply their circumstances derive from an Richmond supporters not wanting to travel 3 seasons ago.

Even if you are right, it still doesnt fix your problem in 2019.

Look at everyones mantra of play anyone anywhere anytime and its your club and coachs polar opposite approach which has infected the mentality of the club.
 

Lavender Bushranger

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A decade ago they were winning h&a games and premierships against all comers at all venues so your statement doesn't even make sense.

Where else should they play these games? Perhaps GC can play all their games at the GABBA and have even fewer people turning up.

A decade ago they were only getting 7 games per year at Kardinia due to being forced to play home games at Marvel while the AFL was paying it off. Awesome, we'll let Marvel tenant clubs sell of home games all over the state and country so they can make some money and just fixture Geelong in to make up the shortfall.

In 2008 Geelong won 21 of 22 h&a games, 8 of them were at Kardinia so that means they won the other 13 away from Kardinia. 13 wins would have seen you finish 4th on the ladder in that h&a season of 2008. In every other year since, with the exception of 2012 (would have finished 9th), 13 wins has been good enough to finish anywhere from 5th to 8th.

Top 4 finishes around the 2013 - 2014 mark were a false economy due to GC and GWS entering the competition 2 to 4 years earlier and depriving any up and comers of access to the top end talent. Imagine being a s**t side in 2010 and seeing Gold Coast coming in and having 8 of the top 13 picks, including 1, 2 and 3. Imagine being a s**t side in 2011 and seeing GWS come in and having 11 of the first 14 picks, including 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Imagine being s**t in both those years with aspirations of hitting the draft and climbing up the ladder.

This obsession with Kardinia has really only started the last couple of years because Richmond supporters were crying. After 30+ long years they were finally starting to look decent, their fans were coming out of the woodwork after an extended hibernation and they were whinging that they had to play down there and other clubs didn't. It never really bother anyone for over half a century until they became really good and were almost unbeatable there (as well as everywhere else)

In summary, Scott is a s**t coach and Geelong aren't as good as they were back in the day, it has zero to do with where they play their home games.
You've missed the point entirely.

The point was, are they actually as good as their top 4 finishes suggest? Are they a genuine top 4 team that chokes in the finals? Or, does the guaranteed 3-4 extra wins that come due to the home ground advantage at Kardinia Park, mean that their ladder position isn't really a true reflection of how good they are? Are they actually just a run of the mill top 8 team that gets beaten by better teams in finals?

It's a bit like Freo. They can pretty much lock in 6 home ground wins no matter how s**t they are. It means that a totally rubbish team finishes most seasons around the 8th-12th mark when in reality they're much closer to being a bottom 4 team.

That in itself isn't the issue though. The issue is whether or not the club acknowledges the true quality of their team and plans accordingly.

If Geelong choose to believe that they are legitimately in the best top 4 teams of the comp then it explains why they recruit Ablett and target Jack Steven and Higgins.

However if they stand back and go "without the home ground advantage we have during the H&A season, we realistically are floating around the 6th-10th mark, and we're just not good enough. So we need to adjust our list management policy accordingly to actually become a top 4 team."


At this stage, it appears that they're choosing to the believe the ladder positions. Which in my opinion, is a mistake.
 

zhoung

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Decent rucks don’t always get sold at ‘a premium’. They get sold at their market value.

This fear of paying overs crap is a lousy excuse for not fixing deficiencies in a list.
Or under their market value, we received pick 44 and 62 for Witts.
Talk about being shafted for the Gold Coasts B&F winner and co captain with the leagues most hit outs in 2019.
 

The 747

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Or under their market value, we received pick 44 and 62 for Witts.
Talk about being shafted for the Gold Coasts B&F winner and co captain with the leagues most hit outs in 2019.
He was none of those things when you traded him, he was playing VFL because you have Grundy. Has really blossomed at GCS though.
 

Partridge

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What others may not remember is we pretty much did this in the famous qualifying final loss against Fremantle. Dawson Simpson had actually put together a really strong month of football that year and was seriously looking like the long term post-Ottens answer, but broke his leg and was out for the year. This was also the year that Hawkins was having major problems with his back, ultimately being a late withdrawal for the final.

So you need a key forward to go with Podsiadly (who was running on fumes by this stage) and two potential rucks to at least try to make things tough for Sandilands. Instead of bringing in Trent West, who'd found his way in the dog house but could at least compete, he went with Blicavs and a young Nathan Vardy (who actually should have played up forward: they went with Josh Walker who predictably was overwhelmed and did nothing).

Trent West wasn't a star and he wasn't going to be in our best players against Fremantle, but he was a premiership ruckman. He could make Sandilands work. The ruck pairing they went with got absolutely destroyed by Lobbe and Hale so you can imagine what Sandilands in the prime of his career did to them: it was an open invitation to thump the ball 30m in any direction he chose at every ball up and it was arguably the difference that day.
And there are no shortage of Geelong fans who to this day refuse to admit it was a monumental and catastrophic cockup. Nice to see it dusted off after six years to once again wrest defeat from the jaws of victory.

It’s especially galling because Stanley and Zac Smith have been together at Geelong for four years, and it’s clear Scott still has no idea at all who the preferred ruckman is.

P.S. Chris Scott, you are a complete cock.
 

AlcoaCat

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Chris Scott "There was an argument either way, on balance my opinion, and I'm one of umm... about 6 or 7 people that have a say in it, I think yeah.. over the next 24 hours my assessment is we should have played him."

Does anyone else find this part funny? There's a selection panel but at the end of the day you are the head coach pal.
Talk about not owning it and de facto chucking others under the bus. Really disappointing.
 

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catscollector

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Personally I think their list is not a premiership list and they have done well to make Top 4 let alone minor premiers. If they won the flag it would be the weakest team to do say I can remember
When you say weakest side, do you mean as in the talent on the park?

Personally, I think this list is one of the more least physically imposing sides in the comp. All footballers are brave as you have to be in order to do what they do for a living but we have a tendency to draft and carry a lot of players who prefer to play for themselves and play brilliant footy rather than guys who are willing to hunt and attack their direct opponent.
I count up to 10 players on the weekend who would not want to be part of an on-field melee and that is where the crux of our issues lie at the moment.

The opposition know they can intimidate us and they have been doing it for quite sometime since the last of our champion brigade retired a few years ago.
 

Fourthawn

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As a Hawk fan it really should not be in my DNA to try and defend Chris Scott but, here it goes ....
After last year's elimination final loss to Melbourne, most footy fans would have had Geelong tumbling down the ladder in 2019. Then, when the fixture was released, presenting the Cats with a nightmare opening six rounds, most footy "experts" were predicting the Cats to quickly enter a rebuild phase. And yet, due to some terrific coaching, pre-season planning and recruitment the Cats somehow surged to the top of the ladder and won the minor premiership! Any Cats fans must have been delighted with that result.
Yes, the coaching department stuffed up badly last Friday by omitting Stanley (and Smith, and Abbott, and Fort and any recognised ruckman for that matter) against the AA ruckman, but they still only lost by less than two goals. If not for some wayward kicking in the last quarter they could have snatched a remarkable come-from-behind victory.
It seems to me that Chris Scott is marked harshly as a coach because of his annoying mannerisms and his continually frustrating babble whenever he speaks to the media, but is not given the credit for some incredible on-field performances.
Whenever the Cats win it is because of the players but whenever they lose it is because of the coach. Interestingly this is in direct contrast to my team ... whenever the Hawks win Clarko gets all the credit but when they lose it it the players' fault. Of course, neither narrative is true.
 

Duskfire

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As a Hawk fan it really should not be in my DNA to try and defend Chris Scott but, here it goes ....
After last year's elimination final loss to Melbourne, most footy fans would have had Geelong tumbling down the ladder in 2019. Then, when the fixture was released, presenting the Cats with a nightmare opening six rounds, most footy "experts" were predicting the Cats to quickly enter a rebuild phase. And yet, due to some terrific coaching, pre-season planning and recruitment the Cats somehow surged to the top of the ladder and won the minor premiership! Any Cats fans must have been delighted with that result.
Yes, the coaching department stuffed up badly last Friday by omitting Stanley (and Smith, and Abbott, and Fort and any recognised ruckman for that matter) against the AA ruckman, but they still only lost by less than two goals. If not for some wayward kicking in the last quarter they could have snatched a remarkable come-from-behind victory.
It seems to me that Chris Scott is marked harshly as a coach because of his annoying mannerisms and his continually frustrating babble whenever he speaks to the media, but is not given the credit for some incredible on-field performances.
Whenever the Cats win it is because of the players but whenever they lose it is because of the coach. Interestingly this is in direct contrast to my team ... whenever the Hawks win Clarko gets all the credit but when they lose it it the players' fault. Of course, neither narrative is true.
I completely agree. All the attention is because of his mannerisms and him speaking his mind about wanting finals at home. There are coaches with a similar or worst records going about. Longmire hasn’t won anything since 2012, no one really calls him out. Hinkley hasn’t done s**t, Don Pyke isn’t crash hot etc etc. Yet there are three separate threads about Chris Scott currently on the board.

Does he annoy me? For sure. But at the same time I do think he is hard done by.
 

QuietB

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As a Hawk fan it really should not be in my DNA to try and defend Chris Scott but, here it goes ....
After last year's elimination final loss to Melbourne, most footy fans would have had Geelong tumbling down the ladder in 2019. Then, when the fixture was released, presenting the Cats with a nightmare opening six rounds, most footy "experts" were predicting the Cats to quickly enter a rebuild phase. And yet, due to some terrific coaching, pre-season planning and recruitment the Cats somehow surged to the top of the ladder and won the minor premiership! Any Cats fans must have been delighted with that result.
Yes, the coaching department stuffed up badly last Friday by omitting Stanley (and Smith, and Abbott, and Fort and any recognised ruckman for that matter) against the AA ruckman, but they still only lost by less than two goals. If not for some wayward kicking in the last quarter they could have snatched a remarkable come-from-behind victory.
It seems to me that Chris Scott is marked harshly as a coach because of his annoying mannerisms and his continually frustrating babble whenever he speaks to the media, but is not given the credit for some incredible on-field performances.
Whenever the Cats win it is because of the players but whenever they lose it is because of the coach. Interestingly this is in direct contrast to my team ... whenever the Hawks win Clarko gets all the credit but when they lose it it the players' fault. Of course, neither narrative is true.
I disagree. It is a fact that when things go bad Scott does not accept responsibility.

Geelong lost Friday night either because "it was not at GMHBA" or the players "didn't finish" or "the Stanley decision was made by 6-7 trusted people, not just me" (all paraphrasing).

Now on the Stanley decision - look at the stats for Mark Blicavs. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/M/Mark_Blicavs.html

First half of the season he is in AA form playing key back and Geelong go 11-1, Blicavs does not have a single hit out.

Second half of the season he starts spending extended periods in the ruck and Geelong go 5-5

The change did not work and someone is responsible for that. Despite it not working someone decided to still go with it in a final. Someone is responsible.

But 6 or 7 people :rolleyes:
 

Conca Cuddle

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The Cats' A game is something to behold and they're able to do it often enough throughout the H&A for which Scott should be applauded. However his failure to have a Plan B when the chips are down, is indefensible. I can't wait to see how they respond against the Eagles. I'm hoping they'll come prepared and learn their lesson from Friday.
 

zucchini

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After 10 years of nothingness he's upped the ante and chasing another quick fix for his ineptness as a leader, Goldstein ffs.
 

zucchini

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The Cats' A game is something to behold and they're able to do it often enough throughout the H&A for which Scott should be applauded. However his failure to have a Plan B when the chips are down, is indefensible. I can't wait to see how they respond against the Eagles. I'm hoping they'll come prepared and learn their lesson from Friday.
The Eagles will demolish them....
 

Duskfire

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So does he....
All the head coaches bar one know/understand the buck stops with then.
I'm one of umm... about 6 or 7 people that have a say in it...very weak comment
I am not saying he doesn’t have faults, he clearly does. He isn’t the greatest st public speaking clearly. But he gets a lot more attention then other coaches, and it is purely down to his mannerisms, not his coaching. Hinkley doesn’t get anywhere near the attention in here that Chris Scott gets for instance.
 

QuietB

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I am not saying he doesn’t have faults, he clearly does. He isn’t the greatest st public speaking clearly. But he gets a lot more attention then other coaches, and it is purely down to his mannerisms, not his coaching. Hinkley doesn’t get anywhere near the attention in here that Chris Scott gets for instance.
He chooses to create that attention. No one is forcing him to go on 360 every week and speak gobbledygook
 

Boris the Contradiction

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Talk about not owning it and de facto chucking others under the bus. Really disappointing.
I thought this was weird as well. The guy does not accept responsibility for anything. He also tried to suggest that they were in control of play from the 14 minute mark of the first quarter, which is frankly dillusional.

He reeks of a bloke who just cannot help but make excuses for himself. He comes across as a whinge because he is one.
 

zhoung

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He was none of those things when you traded him, he was playing VFL because you have Grundy. Has really blossomed at GCS though.
Rubbish he was ahead of Grundy then was out injured.

2, first rucks in one team is one too many.

If he was ruck/forward we could have kept him, alas he left for more opportunity as No.1 banana
 

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