Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

Will Chris Scott see out his contract until the end of 2017?

  • Yes

    Votes: 79 79.0%
  • No

    Votes: 21 21.0%

  • Total voters
    100
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Vdubs

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Posts
27,405
Likes
25,184
Location
48 J 09
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Arsenal
So is every other team in the bottom half of the eight. None of them are a chance in September. I'd still prefer to be there than not.

Tell me your final top 4

How so? Where should we have finished in 2012? 2013? 2014? The facts don't support what you are suggesting. Why did we chase Rivers and McIntosh at the end of 2012? There is only one answer: because we thought they would help us win another premiership.

Agree for 2012, 2013

I sincerely hope the club isn't thinking this way. List building should have started when the retirements of premiership players started. I thought that was all part of the club's five year plan.
I did say TRUE list building, and you know too well that list building is an annual process, and that I'm referring to that time when ALL our aged veteran stars are gone, when the true pain may really set in...
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

MC Extra Dollop

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Posts
20,680
Likes
17,032
AFL Club
Geelong
I did say TRUE list building, and you know too well that list building is an annual process, and that I'm referring to that time when ALL our aged veteran stars are gone, when the true pain may really set in...
But they'll never all be gone. Taylor turns 30 next year. Selwood and Hawkins officially hit their late 20s next year. You're always going to have old players, especially if you've had a sustained period of success. So teams will try to hit the ground running. Which is what this club wanted to do. It didn't want to bottom out.

My top four is the top four. I think they're the only teams capable of making the grand final. The others might be good for an upset along the way and perhaps a Preliminary Final, but ultimately none of them are good enough, or consistent enough, to win three games in a row against quality opposition (with a road trip or two thrown in for good measure), let alone four.
 

Vdubs

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Posts
27,405
Likes
25,184
Location
48 J 09
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Arsenal
But they'll never all be gone. Taylor turns 30 next year. Selwood and Hawkins officially hit their late 20s next year. You're always going to have old players, especially if you've had a sustained period of success. So teams will try to hit the ground running. Which is what this club wanted to do. It didn't want to bottom out.

My top four is the top four. I think they're the only teams capable of making the grand final. The others might be good for an upset along the way and perhaps a Preliminary Final, but ultimately none of them are good enough, or consistent enough, to win three games in a row against quality opposition (with a road trip or two thrown in for good measure), let alone four.
Good points about the rest of our flag players, of course. Taylor has had an ordinary year for his standards too, but that is beside the point.
That core of triple premiership players, and Lonergan, and Stokes is who I am referring to, that group all about the same age, you know the ones we are all guessing what their fate is. Once they are gone....
You are of course correct about us not bottoming out, which is noble, and now we find ourselves where we are, which is not bad or good or correct or incorrect. It is where we are at.
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
The few issues I have with Scott were again highlighted in his press conference. When asked why the team didn't play well he could give no reason and again (because he has used this excuse before) stated that they will conduct a thorough review (which is fine) before determining what could have been done better.

Now that's all well and good, but when you are coaching a game of footy Chris, you don't get the luxury of taking time out after quarter time to do a thorough analysis before the second quarter starts. You need to have answers right there and then.

My question and concern now is Scott able to when we are performing badly stem the bleeding? Is he capable of analysing in the short time he has available a suitable solution to change the course of a match? Is he capable of either changing the players mindsets, altering our game plan, and finding a solution, quickly, to hopefully change the momentum?

I'm not sure now that he can. He seems almost paralysed in the coaching box recently. When we start badly I'm just not seeing that much initiative to change the situation.

I think Chris, to his credit, is a very good communicator. My perception is that I think he knows how to manage people quite well. I just don't know whether he is a very good match day coach. And to be successful we need someone who can be strong both strategically and tactically on match day.
3 quick points .

1.take no notice of what scott says in his press conferences. They ars just messages directed at the fans and media, not the players.he keeps his cards close to his chest.

2.he does make changes when things are going badly, its just that most posters on this board are not astute enough to notice them.

3.do you not think that cookie is capable of judging how good a coach scott is ?
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
Excellent communicator, second only to Bucks for me. Was handed the task of retiring 20 odd star veterans five years ago and has done as good a job as anyone could've hoped to do while remaining competitive at the same time. There is not a single man alive that could've achieved this and kept all our fans pleased. Way too harsh. And can he coach? I know it's been argued to death, he won a premimiership with a team on the slide so that's a definite YES for me and whoever compared him to Gary Ayres earlier is clearly one of those supporters we all cop at the footy from time to time and cringe when they bag our own on a constant basis.
So true. Truth is most of these poster who bag scott are not supporters , they are amature critics.
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
Cool story. The median games played gives essentially the same result across each of those examples.

Any other theories?
And that somehow changes the fact that 2/3 of our side in those games were not in the prime of their careers ?

Just today they had a graph on fox footy with were each club wad positioned on the premiership clovk , we were down the bottom.
 

MC Extra Dollop

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Posts
20,680
Likes
17,032
AFL Club
Geelong
And that somehow changes the fact that 2/3 of our side in those games were not in the prime of their careers ?
It shows that not only were these teams well below us on the ladder, with nothing to play for, but that, far from me trying to distort the facts, as you implied, those teams were significantly less experienced than us as well (whichever way you'd like to cut it). Quite the opposite of Sydney in 2005.

Just today they had a graph on fox footy with were each club wad positioned on the premiership clovk , we were doen the bottom.
And how were they grading it? Just Kingy making it up as he went along, as usual?
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
It shows that not only were these teams well below us on the ladder, with nothing to play for, but that, far from me trying to distort the facts, as you implied, those teams were significantly less experienced than us as well (whichever way you'd like to cut it). Quite the opposite of Sydney in 2005.



And how were they grading it? Just Kingy making it up as he went along, as usual?
Never said you were making anything up , you posted it in a way that suggested because we had more experience we should of won.I made the point that we have a number of 30 year olds past there best who are increasing our experience levels.

You dont think friday had something to do with no caddy and duncan ?

Dont know how they graded it , just take a look at our list , we have very few players in the prime of their careers.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Posts
73,577
Likes
94,324
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Tottenham, Bushrangers
And how were they grading it? Just Kingy making it up as he went along, as usual?
Don't think King was there, there was Huddo and Ricciuto running the segment. it was graded into 4 quadrants.

top left was premiership standard offence and defence
top right was premiership standard offence but substandard defence
bottom left was substandard offence but premiership standard defence
bottom right was substandard in both offence and defence.

Now the metrics used were offence averaging over 100 points a game or as they displayed it >100 and defence was under 86 conceded or <86.

from memory West Coast, Hawthorn and Adelaide were in the top left. Sydney, Fremantle and another team were bottom left and all others were bottom right. We were right near the cut off line for defence, suggesting our defence isn't far off on their metric. Now the significance as to why they chose that metric is they claim that 14 of the last 15 premiers have been in that top left quadrant and Sydney 2005 is the exception.
 

MC Extra Dollop

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Posts
20,680
Likes
17,032
AFL Club
Geelong
CS knew the Pies would come out blazing, the players knew it, only the player who had the week off fired a shot, apart from the eternally fit Blicavs; we are physically spent for a variety of reasons. Selwood had zero backup.
Chris Scott and the rest of the match committee decided not to play Horlin-Smith. That's on them. There's a bunch of midfielders that aren't considered to be as good as Selwood that do produce on a weekly basis, regardless of what their teammates are doing.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

MC Extra Dollop

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Posts
20,680
Likes
17,032
AFL Club
Geelong
Never said you were making anything up , you posted it in a way that suggested because we had more experience we should of won.I made the point that we have a number of 30 year olds past there best who are increasing our experience levels.
I'm suggesting that a team that is more experienced, that is higher on the ladder and that has a lot more to play for would be expected to take care of business and not hide behind the frankly pathetic excuse of having inexperienced players. And I'm sure that if I bothered to go through the respective preview threads, few - if any - would have thought the Pies would win and no-one would have given Melbourne or St Kilda a chance.

You dont think friday had something to do with no caddy and duncan ?
I think injuries happen. Geelong could have brought in GHS and it did bring in Kelly, to join Guthrie, Blicavs, Motlop, Selwood, Johnson and Lang as midfield options. I also think Collingwood was significantly weakened by the absence of Cloke and Toovey.

Dont know how they graded it , just take a look at our list , we have very few players in the prime of their careers.
Based on the assumption that all players hit the absolute prime of their careers at the exact same age?
 

MC Extra Dollop

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Posts
20,680
Likes
17,032
AFL Club
Geelong
Don't think King was there, there was Huddo and Ricciuto running the segment. it was graded into 4 quadrants.

top left was premiership standard offence and defence
top right was premiership standard offence but substandard defence
bottom left was substandard offence but premiership standard defence
bottom right was substandard in both offence and defence.

Now the metrics used were offence averaging over 100 points a game or as they displayed it >100 and defence was under 86 conceded or <86.

from memory West Coast, Hawthorn and Adelaide were in the top left. Sydney, Fremantle and another team were bottom left and all others were bottom right. We were right near the cut off line for defence, suggesting our defence isn't far off on their metric. Now the significance as to why they chose that metric is they claim that 14 of the last 15 premiers have been in that top left quadrant and Sydney 2005 is the exception.
I'm not surprised. Geelong would have also been in the top left in 2012.
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
I'm suggesting that a team that is more experienced, that is higher on the ladder and that has a lot more to play for would be expected to take care of business and not hide behind the frankly pathetic excuse of having inexperienced players. And I'm sure that if I bothered to go through the respective preview threads, few - if any - would have thought the Pies would win and no-one would have given Melbourne or St Kilda a chance.



I think injuries happen. Geelong could have brought in GHS and it did bring in Kelly, to join Guthrie, Blicavs, Motlop, Selwood, Johnson and Lang as midfield options. I also think Collingwood was significantly weakened by the absence of Cloke and Toovey.



Based on the assumption that all players hit the absolute prime of their careers at the exact same age?
This is not just directed at you but some posters on this board have got no idea what they are talking about .We all accept that we are an average side in a rebuilding phrase , do people think average sides don't have bad losses ? its total BS to think that average sides always beat sides below them and lose to sides above them .

Every coach has coached a side to a loss in a game they were expected to win , to be honest after playing in 10 of the last 11 finals series and winning 3 premierships in that time the way that some people on this board have behaved is disgraceful .You are all nothing more than fickle glory hunters who are acting like spoilt brats.

No not every player hits their prime at the same time, but there are common patterns with players and sides , most would be at their prime once they reach 100 games and are between 24-29 .We just have too few players in this age bracket.

Honestly we have been up for 11 years and won 3 premierships in that time and your having a great big temper tantrum over a few bad games ?
 
Last edited:

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
Chris Scott and the rest of the match committee decided not to play Horlin-Smith. That's on them. There's a bunch of midfielders that aren't considered to be as good as Selwood that do produce on a weekly basis, regardless of what their teammates are doing.
Horlin-Smith is no substitute for Caddy and Duncan , they are significantly better players . All players have bad games .Stop acting like a spoilt brat and grow up.
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
So is every other team in the bottom half of the eight. None of them are a chance in September. I'd still prefer to be there than not.



How so? Where should we have finished in 2012? 2013? 2014? The facts don't support what you are suggesting. Why did we chase Rivers and McIntosh at the end of 2012? There is only one answer: because we thought they would help us win another premiership.



I sincerely hope the club isn't thinking this way. List building should have started when the retirements of premiership players started. I thought that was all part of the club's five year plan.
Not only do you not understand what a median is , you don't understand what the difference is between aspiration and expectation .The club will always aspire to finish as high as possible , the expectation was never to win a premiership with rivers , why do you think Cook extended scots contract and said he had already proved himself to be an astute coach ? you think cook would of done this because Scott has failed to live up to expectations ?

No 5 year plan has ever existed .

This is why Scott has done such a brilliant job .

1.Ablett
2.Rooke
3.Ling
4.Ottens
5.Milburn
6.Mooney
7.Scarlett
8.Wojinski
9.Cory
10.Hunt
11.Podisadly
12.Chapman

Players who have aged
13.Bartel
14.Kelly
15.Johnson
16.Mackie
17.Enright
18.Stokes
 

MC Extra Dollop

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Posts
20,680
Likes
17,032
AFL Club
Geelong
This is not just directed at you but some posters on this board have got no idea what they are talking about .We all except that we are an average side in a rebuilding phrase , do people think average sides don't have bad losses ? its total BS to think that average sides always beat sides below them and lose to sides above them .

Every coach has coached a side to a loss in a game they were expected to win , to be honest after playing in 10 of the last 11 finals series and winning 3 premierships in that time the way that some people on this board has behaved is disgraceful .You are all nothing more than fickle glory hunters who are acting like spoilt brats.

No not every players hits their prime at the same time, but their are common patterns with players and sides , most would be at their prime once they reach 100 games and are between 24-29 .We just have too few players in this age bracket.

Honestly we have been up for 11 years and won 3 premierships in that time and your having a great big temper tantrum over a few bad games ?
I don't think I'm the one losing my cool here.

Everyone is grateful for what this team has achieved over the past decade. That's now in the past. It's well beyond time that we're allowed to ask hard questions and look at why we weren't good enough this year and what needs to happen in order for us to get better.

What I do note about this prime age bracket is that it seems to just be slightly changed to exclude as many of our current list as possible each year. I'm struggling to think of a player that got noticeably worse between the age of 29 and 30, off the top of my head, for example.
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
I don't think I'm the one losing my cool here.

Everyone is grateful for what this team has achieved over the past decade. That's now in the past. It's well beyond time that we're allowed to ask hard questions and look at why we weren't good enough this year and what needs to happen in order for us to get better.

What I do note about this prime age bracket is that it seems to just be slightly changed to exclude as many of our current list as possible each year. I'm struggling to think of a player that got noticeably worse between the age of 29 and 30, off the top of my head, for example.
I agree its in the past but at the same time the club needs time to rebuild , given the fact that we have been up for long would it not be sensible to wait until the end of 2017 before we start making judgements about Scott or other key staff ?

If we are in this position at the end of 2017 , yes we have problems .

The take home point is the club needs and deserves some time to rebuild.
 
Last edited:

Biggy_Boy

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
20,670
Likes
20,992
Location
Tas
AFL Club
Geelong
I agree its in the past but at the same time the club needs time to rebuild , given the fact that we have been up for long would it not be sensible to wait until the end of 2017 before we start making judgements about Scott or other key staff ?

If we are in this position at the end of 2017 , yes we have problems .

The take home point is give the club needs and deserves some time to rebuild.
But I thought a premiership in 2015 or 2016 was a certainty?
 

MC Extra Dollop

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Posts
20,680
Likes
17,032
AFL Club
Geelong
Not only do you not understand what a median is
Haha...this ought to be good.

, you don't understand what the difference is between aspiration and expectation .The club will always aspire to finish as high as possible , the expectation was never to win a premiership with rivers , why do you think Cook extended scots contract and said he had already proved himself to be an astute coach ? you think cook would of done this because Scott has failed to live up to expectations ?
That's a wonderful point. Pity it's not what I wrote.

No 5 year plan has ever existed .
http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/GeelongCats/Club Promos/GC 2014 EXEC 2020 Vision 16pp_v4.pdf

#1 KPA: 'Win premierships'

http://www.openbrackets.net.au/blog...ent-transformed-geelong-fc-from-good-to-great

After winning the premiership in emphatic fashion in 2007, thumping the hapless Port Adelaide side by a record margin, Cook was not yet satisfied with what the club had achieved – there was much unfinished business. So in 2008 Cook, inspired by the work of Jim Collins, led the development of Geelong Football Club’s strategic plan Good to Great by 2013 (G2G).
This is why Scott has done such a brilliant job .

1.Ablett
2.Rooke
3.Ling
4.Ottens
5.Milburn
6.Mooney
7.Scarlett
8.Wojinski
9.Cory
10.Hunt
11.Podisadly
12.Chapman

Players who have aged
13.Bartel
14.Kelly
15.Johnson
16.Mackie
17.Enright
18.Stokes
'Brilliant'? Seems a little strong. 'Brilliant' would be if we had solid-to-excellent like-for-like replacements for each of those players. We haven't found anything close to a replacement for Ottens, Ling, Podsiadly and Chapman, for a start.
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
18,392
Likes
8,702
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
Haha...this ought to be good.



That's a wonderful point. Pity it's not what I wrote.



http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/GeelongCats/Club Promos/GC 2014 EXEC 2020 Vision 16pp_v4.pdf

#1 KPA: 'Win premierships'

http://www.openbrackets.net.au/blog...ent-transformed-geelong-fc-from-good-to-great





'Brilliant'? Seems a little strong. 'Brilliant' would be if we had solid-to-excellent like-for-like replacements for each of those players. We haven't found anything close to a replacement for Ottens, Ling, Podsiadly and Chapman, for a start.
I think your getting a bit confused .In 2011 thanks largely to Scott we accomplished that mission to go from good to great .

You cant just simply go and replace players like the ones we have lost over the past few years. It took us as almost 10 years to build that premiership side.

Let me directly quote Brian Cook

"I would have loved for all of the supporters to have jumped on board, and, this is a new journey and it is going to be a bumpy one too, I think,” Cook told the Herald Sun.

“It’s going to take a little bit of time and it’s going to take a fair bit of resilience from our supporters.

“I just hope that through these minor setbacks and minor hardships that there is a positive reaction from our supporters because it has been a pretty good ride for 10 years.

“It can’t last forever and we know that equalisation does take its toll.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-list-transition/story-fni5f6yf-1227323754554
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom