Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

Will Chris Scott see out his contract until the end of 2017?

  • Yes

    Votes: 79 79.0%
  • No

    Votes: 21 21.0%

  • Total voters
    100
  • Poll closed .
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Catgirl

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Play the ball not the man.

I don't accept the lack of credit given to Scott for our 2011 flag, he was the voice we needed at that time as the group had ceased listening to Bomber is some respects, no flag is a fluke and all takes a lot going right in order to achieve that goal. To suggest merely anyone could have coached us to that premiership is insulting.
If my opinion is insulting then so be it. I'll continue to "vilify". Do remember that we were fielding probably our most complete side of all time. Ablett's exit, the will to impress a new coach (who just so happened to be Scott) as well as media propaganda only served as motivational factors for a group of premiership players who were burning after a humiliating PF loss. Yes, Scott played a role in that premiership no doubt, but I refuse to use it as a measure of his coaching ability given he walked into a side that Bomber had cradled and raised for over 10 years. He was the new voice the Cats needed, and he is the voice that will guide our current group rightfully.
 

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Catgirl

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Given some Geelong supporters seem to have short term memories and forget what Bomber did for our club, let's put this into context. Alastair Clarkson leaves Hawthorn to go coach Melbourne; the Hawks lose Jarryd Roughead to GWS on a 2 year contract. A new coach comes in and coaches the Hawks to their fourth consecutive flag. The club, with many senior players retiring and new contributors, then finishes the next few seasons by being eliminated in the EF, being eliminated in the PF, being eliminated in straight sets and finishing 10th respectively. The new coach boasts 5 seasons at the club and one premiership leading a completely Clarkson-coached squad. Clarkson served 10 years at Hawthorn for 4 premierships (3 consecutive). Are the two coaches in a position to be compared just yet?
 
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If my opinion is insulting then so be it. I'll continue to "vilify". Do remember that we were fielding probably our most complete side of all time. Ablett's exit, the will to impress a new coach (who just so happened to be Scott) as well as media propaganda only served as motivational factors for a group of premiership players who were burning after a humiliating PF loss. Yes, Scott played a role in that premiership no doubt, but I refuse to use it as a measure of his coaching ability given he walked into a side that Bomber had cradled and raised for over 10 years. He was the new voice the Cats needed, and he is the voice that will guide our current group rightfully.
I don't mean to be so blunt, the suggestion of Clarkey's dog being able to coach this team is the epitome of insulting. Argue, debate or critique Scott for 2012-15 all you want but for 2011 he got it right.

He transformed a team that yes had good players but had had its gameplan unravelled by the premiers Collingwood in embarrassing style in the 2010 PF, saw the best player leave, the heralded coach as well. He transformed a misfiring team with a stale style of play into the premiers within 12 months. All you have to do is search "2011 afl season predictions" to see no one really had as premiers, many had us sliding, a lot raised concerns over the departures of GAJ and Bomber and it was the beginning of the "Geelong to fall" predictions which embarrassed pundits for a further 3 years. That new voice and his players proved them all wrong in embarrassing fashion.

That following season he re-introduced Mackie who had fallen out of form and favour, made hard calls on Mooney and Milburn, re-introduced Hawkins who's finals series would be the precursor to his breakout year of 2012 all the while Collingwood lost to 1 club throughout 2011 and one club only, the side they dismantled in the PF a season earlier.... and they lost 3 times not just once. Again Scott did more than merely coach a team that could win the 2011 flag on autopilot, to suggest so imo is insulting to the body of work and decisions that the players and staff put into winning in 2011.
 

abet

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I don't mean to be so blunt, the suggestion of Clarkey's dog being able to coach this team is the epitome of insulting. Argue, debate or critique Scott for 2012-15 all you want but for 2011 he got it right.

He transformed a team that yes had good players but had had its gameplan unravelled by the premiers Collingwood in embarrassing style in the 2010 PF, saw the best player leave, the heralded coach as well. He transformed a misfiring team with a stale style of play into the premiers within 12 months. All you have to do is search "2011 afl season predictions" to see no one really had as premiers, many had us sliding, a lot raised concerns over the departures of GAJ and Bomber and it was the beginning of the "Geelong to fall" predictions which embarrassed pundits for a further 3 years. That new voice and his players proved them all wrong in embarrassing fashion.

That following season he re-introduced Mackie who had fallen out of form and favour, made hard calls on Mooney and Milburn, re-introduced Hawkins who's finals series would be the precursor to his breakout year of 2012 all the while Collingwood lost to 1 club throughout 2011 and one club only, the side they dismantled in the PF a season earlier.... and they lost 3 times not just once. Again Scott did more than merely coach a team that could win the 2011 flag on autopilot, to suggest so imo is insulting to the body of work and decisions that the players and staff put into winning in 2011.
I was the one who said that so don't know why you're quoting it to Catgirl.

Plus i don't really care if you or anyone else thinks it's insulting, it's the way i see it and if you or anyone else don't like it then it's bad luck.

By the way i backed us to win the flag in 2011 and when i placed the bet CS didn't even figure when i did the form because he was an unknown. People also had us sliding out of the 8 in 2012 and 2013 but with the caliber of players we still had that was no chance of happening.
 

geelong_crazy26

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How many premierships has Bomber won for Geelong again?

And keep in mind, Thompson debuted the following players in 2010 . . . Duncan, Hunt, Menzel, Podsiadly, Motlop, Simpson. Six new faces as opposed to the five debutants which Scott debuted in 2011.
Thompson played a major part in helping setup the list for one last crack at silverware even after his departure.

Yeah sure , Thompson did not have the guts to play any of those players in the 2010 finals series except the 28/29 year old podsiadly.

Scott was brave enough to pick Duncan ahead of Milburn in a grand final and was also brave enough to go into the finals series with Hawkins as our 2nd forward ahead of Mooney.

Would Thompson of been brave enough to delist Chapman and Johnson to make way for young talent ? I think not.
 

Partridge

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Interesting fact Thompson from 2007-2010 was never able to win 3 finals by more than 2 goals , in 2011 Scott was able to win all 3 finals by over 6 goals .
The master of biased selection does it again.

I'll give you another FACT: no team has ever won two finals in one finals series by over 100 points.

Except Geelong in 2007. Under Thompson.
 

geelong_crazy26

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Sorry but he was not that brave at all. Mooney was cooked mate. It was either Hawkins or bust and I think most Cat fans felt this way at some point during the season. If Hawkins could not fire a shot, or at least provide adequate support (given he was literally lingering in the VFL at one point), Geelong were not going to win the flag.

As for the other talk about Chapman and Johnson . . . lol they were basically finished mate :p
They had one year left? At tops and that was it. That's not brave at all. In fact, we are witnessing the opposite. We are bringing in ready-made players and getting rid of young 30-40 gamer's so that we can get a quick fix.
What do you think is braver , picking a young player like Duncan over a club champion like Milburn or sending David Mench to the seconds and giving his sport to a young player ?

Thompson didn't pick young players ahead of superstars , he picked them ahead of duds like Mench,Jason Mooney and brad sholl.

Thomspon would never of delisted the players that Scott has over the past few years.

Thompson also tried to recruit ready made players, don't you remember White,Murphy,Lots,Grigic and Haynes ? thats with a side that was towards the bottom of the ladder.
 

Bobby_

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What do you think is braver , picking a young player like Duncan over a club champion like Milburn or sending David Mench to the seconds and giving his sport to a young player ?

Thompson didn't pick young players ahead of superstars , he picked them ahead of duds like Mench,Jason Mooney and brad sholl.

Thomspon would never of delisted the players that Scott has over the past few years.

Thompson also tried to recruit ready made players, don't you remember White,Murphy,Lots,Grigic and Haynes ? thats with a side that was towards the bottom of the ladder.
If Thompson never did the things you say, how the hell did he manage to bring in all those players who went on to win all those premierships? Think about it crazy.

I just told you he debuted six new faces in his final season as coach, you still keep turning a blind eye though.
 

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geelong_crazy26

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If Thompson never did the things you say, how the hell did he manage to bring in all those players who went on to win all those premierships? Think about it crazy.
Early on he picked young players ahead of older players , but those older players were mostly duds .

Its much easier to pick a young player ahead of an older player if the older player is not that good.
 
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I was the one who said that so don't know why you're quoting it to Catgirl.
Because more than 1 person over the life of this thread has suggested as such, which is grossly unfair to everyone involved in 2011, this was quoted by cg so I responded.

Plus i don't really care if you or anyone else thinks it's insulting, it's the way i see it and if you or anyone else don't like it then it's bad luck.
This is something for which my opinion is quite strong so bad luck if you don't like it either, in my view the often raised view that 2011 was a fluke and we could have won on autopilot is insulting.

By the way i backed us to win the flag in 2011 and when i placed the bet CS didn't even figure when i did the form because he was an unknown. People also had us sliding out of the 8 in 2012 and 2013 but with the caliber of players we still had that was no chance of happening.
Can't remember where exactly I had us finishing but I was hopeful we could reach the PF stage, followed by a rebuild in 2012-14 due to a raft of retirements. What has actually occurred has been quite different indeed.
 

Catgirl

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He transformed a team that yes had good players
Good players? Do you realise that we were fielding probably the most balanced Geelong side that you or I will ever live to see? Hunt, Scarlett, Lonergan, Enright, Taylor, Wojcinski, Mackie? Selwood, Corey, Kelly, Stokes, Ling, Ottens? Hawkins, Varcoe, Podsiadly, Chapman, Bartel? That is not "good". We were fielding legends of our club. They were a class above the rest in their hay day and they will be a class above in hindsight. People continuously underestimate the list we had.

He transformed a misfiring team with a stale style of play into the premiers within 12 months.
And why is it that these changes were only truly effective in the 2011 season? Because, simply, he walked into a ready-made champion side. The Collingwood loss was never going to be the bookend to our dynasty and you only had to take a look at our list and their retaliations to finals losses in the past to know this. 2011 was conveniently timed, as more players started to retire and lose form in the following seasons.

That following season he re-introduced Mackie who had fallen out of form and favour
Mackie had registered 22 games for the year, only being dropped for the last 2 games (finals evidently). No one is to say that had Bomber continued coaching or had another coach come in and held the reins, they would not have "reintroduced" Mackie, who had played 24 out of 25 games in 2007,
21 out of 25 games in 2008, 24 out of 25 games in 2009, and 22 out of 25 games in 2010. Especially seeing as he was only 25 at the start of 2011.

made hard calls on Mooney and Milburn
Mooney was extremely unlucky with injury throughout the year and only played 8 games. Hawkins was showing signs after being dropped to the VFL, and this is ultimately what put a line through Mooney's comeback. It was not a hard call, it was a justified call and I say this with both a gleam in my eye (Tommy in the 2011 finals series) and an ache in my heart (Moons being my eternal favourite). Milburn was rough, however he was definitely on the wrong side of 30 being our oldest player at the time in an already ageing squad (as media sources and opposition/club supporters had made a constant point of referencing); replacing him was inevitable at any rate, Scott just happened to be handed that responsibility.

re-introduced Hawkins
Hawkins played every game in 2009 except round 1; he also played 18 games in 2010, (from rounds 1-10 and every game from round 18 to the preliminary final vs Collingwood). Any games he didn't play, he was sidelined and recovering from a serious foot injury. Again, reintroducing him was practically a given and not merely a smart tactical move on Scott's behalf. In fact, the only reason Scott had the duty of reintroducing Hawkins was because he had been dropped that many times throughout the 2011 season that he couldn't string more than 4 games together up until Round 17 vs Brisbane when his career took on a new path. I don't think any Cats supporter will hold any regrets in that regard, however "reintroducing" Hawkins shouldn't be used in a context both maledictory towards Thompson and eulogistic towards Scott.

Again Scott did more than merely coach a team that could win the 2011 flag on autopilot, to suggest so imo is insulting to the body of work and decisions that the players and staff put into winning in 2011.
Alternatively, to suggest that a coach who invested in excess of 10 years into a club....a club he walked into with no prodigious culture to speak of, a club whose own players claimed were surrounded by lazy and egotistical influences, a club who sprouted from troubled rising stars, a club whose players were renowned for taking significant pay cuts just to play together, a club whose representative majority resisted almost all external offers from opposition clubs, a club who were known to face adversity outside its four walls even from its own supporters and stuck it to all of them not once but twice (07, 09)...had not only

A. led his group into an oblivion that only Chris "The Messiah" Scott could lead them out of and
B. was thus comparable to Scott, a first year coach
is nothing short of insulting, not only to Bomber but to the club personnel and players who lived and bled the club, for some like Bomber in excess of 10 years. They would have held the belief they could win the 2011 flag, with or without Scott and you know why? It's certainly not because the new coach on the block decided to play a promising young forward ahead of an injured 32 year old. These beliefs, values and culture were instilled into our club long before Chris's arrival, and that is something that Bomber, suffice to say, was a huge part of, like it or not.
 

abet

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This is something for which my opinion is quite strong so bad luck if you don't like it either, in my view the often raised view that 2011 was a fluke and we could have won on autopilot is insulting.
Anyone who believes CS was the only one capable to lead us to a flag in 2011 with the manpower we had is a total idiot.
 
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Anyone who believes CS was the only one capable to lead us to a flag in 2011 with the manpower we had is a total idiot.
Did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth. Similarly anyone who thinks 2011 success could have been achieved by anyone is an idiot.

Simply put, imo the lengths some are going to do discredit Scott for what was achieved in 2011 is served only to fit into the opinion he's not a good coach and should be replaced. No one can take away what was achieved in 2011 and some of the suggestions to do so in this thread is nothing short of hogwash.

He rightly so will be judged on 2016-17, 2 pivotal years ahead for the pivotonians but especially our coach. I've said my bit and we're not going to agree and I stand by what I said.
 

Catgirl

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Simply put, imo the lengths some are going to do discredit Scott for what was achieved in 2011 is served only to fit into the opinion he's not a good coach and should be replaced.
To quote your good self, "Did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth". I've maintained the same stance throughout the endurance of this thread. Chris Scott is not a proven coach, good or bad; that has neither positive nor negative connotations. He and the club have built themselves up to neutral standing ground since 2011 and as I've said countless times in this thread alone, he has the opportunity to prove himself as a coach in the next couple of seasons with his OWN list. I look forward to seeing what he can do.
 

abet

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Did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth. Similarly anyone who thinks 2011 success could have been achieved by anyone is an idiot.

Simply put, imo the lengths some are going to do discredit Scott for what was achieved in 2011 is served only to fit into the opinion he's not a good coach and should be replaced. No one can take away what was achieved in 2011 and some of the suggestions to do so in this thread is nothing short of hogwash.

He rightly so will be judged on 2016-17, 2 pivotal years ahead for the pivotonians but especially our coach. I've said my bit and we're not going to agree and I stand by what I said.
Most of the 2011 coaches could have achieved success with the players we had, similarly most coaches of 2015 could have taken the Hawks to a flag with the players they had. A great side will even make an average coach look good.
 

Catgirl

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Sounds like coaches are superfluous if you have a good side.

Wonder how that'd go - just say 'ok boys, you're good enough, just bring it home' ?
It takes a great coach to make a good side in the first place. This is what separates the Geelongs, Hawthorns and Sydneys from the Melbournes, Brisbanes and Carltons. There is talent on every list, however if you lack great leaders, you have no direction. My favourite ever football saying rings true to this - "A team of champions does not make a champion team". I feel that this is why so many talented/hyped first round picks will make their way to their respective bottom feeder clubs and will make nothing out of their career opportunity, and alternatively why Geelong amongst other clubs have been able to make something out of nothing third round picks.
 

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It takes a great coach to make a good side in the first place. This is what separates the Geelongs, Hawthorns and Sydneys from the Melbournes, Brisbanes and Carltons. There is talent on every list, however if you lack great leaders, you have no direction. My favourite ever football saying rings true to this - "A team of champions does not make a champion team". I feel that this is why so many talented/hyped first round picks will make their way to their respective bottom feeder clubs and will make nothing out of their career opportunity, and alternatively why Geelong amongst other clubs have been able to make something out of nothing third round picks.
Don't disagree, but the assertions that 'anyone could've coached this or that side' suggests some teams really don't need a coach.....
 

abet

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Sounds like coaches are superfluous if you have a good side.

Wonder how that'd go - just say 'ok boys, you're good enough, just bring it home' ?
In Scott's own words.

At times we just got out of the way this year because we had such an incredible group of players.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...-grand-final-win/story-e6frep5o-1226155638436

Don't disagree, but the assertions that 'anyone could've coached this or that side' suggests some teams really don't need a coach.....
They do need a coach but shit their job is made all that much easier when they inherit what Scott did. Do you think he would have won the flag at Melbourne if he had of got that job?
 
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