Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

Will Chris Scott see out his contract until the end of 2017?

  • Yes

    Votes: 79 79.0%
  • No

    Votes: 21 21.0%

  • Total voters
    100
  • Poll closed .
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The key points of that very same KRock interview are summarised in my above post, the one which you just quoted.

That's the same interview of which you made the claim that "it is clear from his interview that Lloyd at the very least has pretty much driven the way we set up on the field". There is, of course, absolutely no basis whatever in that interview to support that claim in any way, shape or form. The claim is ridiculously delusional, and utter, unmitigated rubbish.
 

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The key points of that very same KRock interview are summarised in my above post, the one which you just quoted.

That's the same interview of which you made the claim that "it is clear from his interview that Lloyd at the very least has pretty much driven the way we set up on the field". There is, of course, absolutely no basis whatever in that interview to support that claim in any way, shape or form. The claim is ridiculously delusional, and utter, unmitigated rubbish.
Steady on, Fred.

The claim is only those things if you're interested in taking a reasoned and objective approach to the facts under consideration.

If you're not, it makes perfect 'sense' to endlessly repeat the same distortions and pass them off as fact.

And by the looks of Blighty's latest avatar and lamentable sig (seriously, he's come up with one that is even more feeble than his previous effort, which is truly saying something), we're in for plenty more of the same for quite some time yet.

Anyway, hope I haven't distracted the 'voice of reason' from his preparations for Friday night. Given there is just the vaguest possibility we might actually win, he must be working furiously on the specious justifications he may have to roll out to explain how 'the Don' was brought low by the rank amateur 'running' our footy club.

Anyway, really looking forward to seeing whether we can go with the Crows on Friday night. Will be interested to see how we come through it.

And interesting days ahead also for the 'figurehead' of all wildly biased thinking pertaining to the hoops, as he flails around desperately in search of the best means to rewrite the entire narrative of recent footy developments at the Cattery.

Although I have to admit I'm marginally less interested in how that turns out.
 
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AM

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Hey Official Cats just wondering if you could answer a simple question: Has Simon Lloyd had or does he have significant input in to the GFC's new game plan, set ups, and tactics?

That's a very broad and not simple question Blighty!
What we can say is that all the coaches (senior, director of coaching, assistants) regularly meet among themselves and with the playing group around the areas you discussed. None of those areas fall to one coach in particular.

The important thing to note is that all the coaches have input.

Despite the claims, nowhere in that reply or in the oft-cited Magic Bullet Interview is there any statement or implication that Lloyd has more input than anyone else.

In particular, there is absolutely b/all justification in that interview or anywhere else for the delusional claim that "Lloyd at the very least has pretty much driven the way we set up on the field".

Lloyd in "The Interview" makes it clear that his jobs are
- to set up off-field systems in conjunction with Scott and Hocking
- in his own words, to "coach the coaches"
- in the match-day box, assume Balme's old role of making sure that each individual coach sticks to his own area of responsibility and doesn't gob off about or interfere in the larger scheme of things.
Which is entirely consistent with the broad role set out by the club at the time of his appointment. Which was:

In the newly created role, Lloyd will oversee the performance and development of coaches and the player development program.
 
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Listen to the Krock interview I posted in the Why have we improved thread. Also the official cats response proves he has input into tactics and game plan at the very least (which some still refuse to accept)....As obviously do the other coaches because that's their jobs, I've never claimed Lloyd controls all facets of our game plan just that he's had a significant impact on it.
Stuff all this....bring back School Bully...you inconsiderate little twerp.
 

BlightysCats

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reasoned and objective approach to the facts under consideration
You're right it's perfectly reasonable and objective to presume a coach that was aggressively chasing senior coaching roles last year, has said his MO from Hocking was 'influence,' and also said he saw a weakness in and changed the systems of our team, would have absolutely zero input into tactics or game plan.:rolleyes:

Just as it's also very reasonable to presume Hocking was completely happy with Scott's coaching over the last few years and that's why he employed a guy who'd done his apprenticeship under the coach considered to be one of the best defensively tactical coaches in the league, who was on the brink of getting a senior gig himself, and instructed him that the very reason he was employed at the GFC was to 'influence' the footy department, I mean that just screams confidence in the head coach to me.:D:D

As for my lame little sig it's just a bit of nonsense specifically designed to annoy posters like yourself that enjoy morosely grumbling away on here like a dull sullen drone in the background offering pretty much zero contribution other than whining about other posters.
 
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Smedts_2

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You're right it's perfectly reasonable and objective to presume a coach that was aggressively chasing senior coaching roles last year, has said his MO from Hocking was 'influence,' and also said he saw a weakness in and changed the systems of our team, would have absolutely zero input into tactics or game plan.:rolleyes:

Just as it's also very reasonable to presume Hocking was completely happy with Scott's coaching over the last few years and that's why he employed a guy who'd done his apprenticeship under the coach considered to be one of the best tactical coaches in the league, who was on the brink of getting a senior gig himself, and instructed him that the very reason he was employed at the GFC was to 'influence' the footy department, I mean that just screams confidence in the head coach to me.:D:D

As for my lame little sig it's just a bit of nonsense specifically designed to annoy posters like yourself that enjoy morosely grumbling away on here like a dull sullen drone in the background offering pretty much zero contribution other than whining about other posters.
Are you aware of confirmation bias?
 

BlightysCats

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Are you aware of confirmation bias?
I'm aware of Official Cats saying Lloyd plays a part in tactics and game-plan just like all the coaches do, I'm aware that on the K Rock interview I posted that Lloyd talks about how he changed our systems and perceived them to be a weakness of our team when he first arrived, and I'm also aware of the context in which Chappy uses the word systems in this article from last year http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/9ee6bfb5bb4d11c739614fd5aa809b3b

I maintain Lloyd was brought in to give us a far more sound structural and tactical base as a team, as well as for his revolutionary and unique communication strategies.

That is an opinion and I certainly won't say it's a fact but it holds just as much weight if not more than the counter argument that he has had no influence whatsoever on the tactical side of our game in 2016. I'm sure as the season goes on we'll learn the truth either way.
 

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I'm aware of Official Cats saying Lloyd plays a part in tactics and game-plan just like all the coaches do, I'm aware that on the K Rock interview I posted that Lloyd talks about how he changed our systems and perceived them to be a weakness of our team when he first arrived, and I'm also aware of the context in which Chappy uses the word systems in this article from last year http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/9ee6bfb5bb4d11c739614fd5aa809b3b

I maintain Lloyd was brought in to give us a far more sound structural and tactical base as a team, as well as for his revolutionary and unique communication strategies.

That is an opinion and I certainly won't say it's a fact but it holds just as much weight if not more than the counter argument that he has had no influence whatsoever on the tactical side of our game in 2016. I'm sure as the season goes on we'll learn the truth either way.
Blighty Cats I think that all involved in this area have played their part. It doesn't really matter who has done what as long as they are working well together and getting the best out of the players. If they do not get the desired outcomes then everyone's position will be reviewed, this pretty much happens on an ongoing basis in a professional environment these days. I think Scott is a very good coach and has some great qualities. If bringing SL onboard has helped to get the best out of Scott & the other coaches then fantastic, a great appointment by the club. However only those involved in that inner circle knows exactly what input each of them has on match day, etc, and frankly it doesn't matter as long as they get the job done.
 

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BlightysCats

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Blighty Cats I think that all involved in this area have played their part. It doesn't really matter who has done what as long as they are working well together and getting the best out of the players. If they do not get the desired outcomes then everyone's position will be reviewed, this pretty much happens on an ongoing basis in a professional environment these days. I think Scott is a very good coach and has some great qualities. If bringing SL onboard has helped to get the best out of Scott & the other coaches then fantastic, a great appointment by the club. However only those involved in that inner circle knows exactly what input each of them has on match day, etc, and frankly it doesn't matter as long as they get the job done.
Completely agree. I certainly couldn't give a toss who did what and when in the coaching group as long as we have success.
 
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You're right it's perfectly reasonable and objective to presume a coach that was aggressively chasing senior coaching roles last year, has said his MO from Hocking was 'influence,' and also said he saw a weakness in and changed the systems of our team, would have absolutely zero input into tactics or game plan.:rolleyes:
You seem to have extreme difficulty attributing individual views to different posters around here.

Show me one example where I ever suggested Lloyd had 'absolutely zero input into tactics or game plan'.

Just as it's also very reasonable to presume Hocking was completely happy with Scott's coaching over the last few years and that's why he employed a guy who'd done his apprenticeship under the coach considered to be one of the best defensively tactical coaches in the league, who was on the brink of getting a senior gig himself, and instructed him that the very reason he was employed at the GFC was to 'influence' the footy department, I mean that just screams confidence in the head coach to me.:D:D
So what would your suggested alternative instruction from Hocking to Lloyd have been? To have 'no influence'? It's one word (entirely sensible in itself) from which you construct your castles in the air about Lloyd now virtually running the whole show. Laughable.

As for my lame little sig it's just a bit of nonsense specifically designed to annoy posters like yourself that enjoy morosely grumbling away on here like a dull sullen drone in the background offering pretty much zero contribution other than whining about other posters.
Couldn't agree more about your own description of the worth of your sig. Great observation on your part.

But apart from calling out your ridiculously contorted offerings around here, my posting history would actually indicate that I enjoy hearing the reasoned and well-argued views of many posters around here.

You should try it sometime.
 
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PhatBoy

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You're right it's perfectly reasonable and objective to presume a coach that was aggressively chasing senior coaching roles last year, has said his MO from Hocking was 'influence,' and also said he saw a weakness in and changed the systems of our team, would have absolutely zero input into tactics or game plan.:rolleyes:

Just as it's also very reasonable to presume Hocking was completely happy with Scott's coaching over the last few years and that's why he employed a guy who'd done his apprenticeship under the coach considered to be one of the best defensively tactical coaches in the league, who was on the brink of getting a senior gig himself, and instructed him that the very reason he was employed at the GFC was to 'influence' the footy department, I mean that just screams confidence in the head coach to me.:D:D

As for my lame little sig it's just a bit of nonsense specifically designed to annoy posters like yourself that enjoy morosely grumbling away on here like a dull sullen drone in the background offering pretty much zero contribution other than whining about other posters.

So by your logic, any attempt whatsoever to improve any department of a football club, means that the directors have no confidence in the people already in that position.

Getting Mitch Clarke screamed no-confidence in Tom Hawkins. Getting Patrick Dangerfield screamed no-confidence in Joel Selwood.
 
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yeh I think it comes down to a bloke named Patrick Dangerfield as to why we look so much better in midfield.

I truly believe, and I know this will erk some but Kelly, Stokes and Johnson were past their best and it was making us stale and fairly slow. When they departed, it allowed some of the younger guys to flourish which has also contributed to our freshness through the middle this season.
I'd agree with that and also say that Kelly, Stokes and Johnson (all magnificent servants btw) were past their best in relation to how the club was to move forward. Would anyone really think that they would be part of a future premiership group?
A current view of Scott's coaching. Since 2011 has managed to reinvent a list that has lost well over 3000 games of experience due to retirements and list management. The bottom out was last year with a par record of wins equal to loses. Where are Collingwood and St Kilda now in comparison to where we are in the premiership window stakes?
To me if we manage to win a flag this year, he surpasses Thompson by rebuilding the playing list in a shorter period of time and in a much more competitive comp.
 
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PhatBoy

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I'd agree with that and also say that Kelly, Stokes and Johnson (all magnificent servants btw) were past their best in relation to how the club was to move forward. Would anyone really think that they would be part of a future premiership group?
A current view of Scott's coaching. Since 2011 has managed to reinvent a list that has lost well over 3000 games of experience due to retirements and list management. The bottom out was last year with a par record of wins equal to loses. Where are Collingwood and St Kilda now in comparison to where we are in the premiership window stakes?
To me if we manage to win a flag this year, he surpasses Thompson by rebuilding the playing list in a shorter period of time and in a much more competitive comp.
This.

And I think I'm right in saying (I looked this up last year so I might be a bit off) that our record last year would have made us a finalist in 16 of the previous 20 seasons. Hardly a disaster.
 

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I'd agree with that and also say that Kelly, Stokes and Johnson (all magnificent servants btw) were past their best in relation to how the club was to move forward. Would anyone really think that they would be part of a future premiership group?
A current view of Scott's coaching. Since 2011 has managed to reinvent a list that has lost well over 3000 games of experience due to retirements and list management. The bottom out was last year with a par record of wins equal to loses. Where are Collingwood and St Kilda now in comparison to where we are in the premiership window stakes?
To me if we manage to win a flag this year, he surpasses Thompson by rebuilding the playing list in a shorter period of time and in a much more competitive comp.
AFL Coaching is an incredibly demanding and difficult job at this level
Scott and Co must get huge credit for 2011 and importantly for still staying competitive since then - if 12th is the lowest we finish after 3 flags in 5 years and we are in the mix again - happy days
Just look at Tiges , Pies and Freo , we are light years ahead by comparison.
We rolled the dice last year and it looks to be paying dividends , let's hope we can continue to defy gravity and stay towards the top for many years to come
 

BlightysCats

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It shows that they quite simply weren't getting the job done and needed help, just as Scott wasn't getting the job done with his systems and needed help to change them.
 
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PhatBoy

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It shows that they quite simply weren't getting the job done and needed help, just as Scott wasn't getting the job done with his systems and needed help to change them.
So in other words, any players or coaches we picked up at the start of 2008, 2010 or 2012 were also proof that we weren't getting the job done and needed help?
 

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It shows that they quite simply weren't getting the job done and needed help, just as Scott wasn't getting the job done with his systems and needed help.
It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys...
Continuous improvement is vital so if Scott was behind changing out personnel in favour of better talent that is the sign of an astute and mature manager - which I believe he is. The Club looks united at all levels with Scott as the undisputed figurehead .
He strikes me as an innovator and embracer of change - unlike Bomber who resisted Cooks review and never gave it the credit it warranted.
 

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It's hard to soarlike an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys...
Continuous improvement is vital so if Scott was behind changing out personnel in favour of better talent that is the sign of an astute and mature manager - which I believe he is. The Club looks united at all levels with Scott as the undisputed figurehead .
He strikes me as an innovator and embracer of change - unlike Bomber who resisted Cooks review and never gave it the credit it warranted.
Scott may have realised his systems were weak and he needed more help, if so then all credit to him, but I don't think getting Lloyd to the club was his idea.

Just on Lloyds impact, in team v opponent averages on Footywire you can clearly see that under Scotts system we struggled in CP's and clearances stretching all the way back through his coaching tenure (especially clearances), this was a hallmark of Scott's teams, Lloyds influence has been to restructure our systems so that CP and clearances in particular are given the attention they deserve and we are seeing vastly different numbers in cp's and particularly clearances than at any time under Scott even in 2011 when we still had Ottens.

In short we're playing a different style of footy than we ever did in the pre-Lloyd era, a style that'll win us finals again and it's about time! Full credit to the GFC for recognising the necessary changes we needed both on the field and in the coaches box and having the courage to go through with them.
 

PhatBoy

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Scott may have realised his systems were weak and he needed more help, if so then all credit to him, but I don't think getting Lloyd to the club was his idea.

Just on Lloyds impact, in team v opponent averages on Footywire you can clearly see that under Scotts system we struggled in CP's and clearances stretching all the way back through his coaching tenure (especially clearances), this was a hallmark of Scott's teams, Lloyds influence has been to restructure our systems so that CP and clearances in particular are given the attention they deserve and we are seeing vastly different numbers in cp's and particularly clearances than at any time under Scott even in 2011 when we still had Ottens.

In short we're playing a different style of footy than we ever did in the pre-Lloyd era, a style that'll win us finals again and it's about time! Full credit to the GFC for recognising the necessary changes we needed both on the field and in the coaches box and having the courage to go through with them.
You don't think that ANY of this has ANYTHING to do with a young group of players improving in some of the areas of the game where it is generally accepted that players take a bit of time to improve? Or ANYTHING to do with having a settled ruck structure?
 

DanA

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The crux of it comes down to.
1. I don't agree with Blightycat that Scott has changed his systems or that his system involves being weak in contested ball.
2. I don't agree with Blightycat that Lloyd brought a more contested brand of football
3. I don't agree with Blightycat that we are playing a different style of football

Same system, same style with the same emphasis on contested footy IMO. We just finally got people that are better in those areas. I don't like the way he presents it as fact that can "clearly be seen". I see opinions built off of dubious hearsay evidence and inaccurate facts. In 2011 we were 3rd for contested possessions, at the moment we are 5th.
 
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