Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

For how long will Chris Scott be Geelong coach?

  • For as long as he wants the job

  • 5+ more years

  • Somewhere between 2020 and 2022 (i.e. beyond his current contract)

  • He will be sacked/resign in 2019

  • He will be sacked/resign in 2018

  • The Nuclear Option: sacked/resign in 2017


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Cataholic

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There was, he began his response by saying 'going by your theory,' a theory mind you he totally made up himself and ascribed to me yet in no way reflected what I'd actually said, then proceeded to try to discredit the 'theory' by claiming I'd come up with a theory that meant the Bulldogs were the only possible team to get a pass mark this season and in the process inferring that each year the Premiership team was the only one that would get a pass mark from myself (basically it's just different wording of the old 'anyone who questions Scott expects us to win the flag every year' crap.) - if you don't think that's condescending that's fine but I'll make my own mind up on such matters thankyou, and I don't need someone like you attempting to morally police me on here.
You chose to read condescension into the post.

No moral policing on my part either.

I simply pointed out that, in your own words, 'responding in kind' and attacking the man because you perceived condescension was an immature, and rather childish response on your part. Tit for tat belongs in a playground.
 

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BlightysCats

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might pay to get over this hang up you seem to have on a marketing slogan - they arent intended to be accurate representations of the state of an entity or product, they are for marketing purposes. its why cokes slogan isnt 'type 2 diabetes in a can'; mcdonalds isnt 'cheap and easy hardened arteries'; and st kildas isnt 'finishing last 27 times more than first!'

who honestly cares in the slightest what 'slogan' the club paste on their memberships drives? ridiculous to try and 'hold them to account' over that.
I'm not particularly hung up on the 'slogan,' others were and raised it with me. They were upset that I put it next to our Prelim result to show the difference in the clubs so called mission statement and what actually happens in reality specifically in finals over the last half decade. So yeah I agree with you corporate slogans are vacuous and meaningless but it doesn't mean you can't take the piss out of them - especially when you're frustrated with the GFC constantly failing in finals and not doing anything about the coach.
 

BlightysCats

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You chose to read condescension into the post.

No moral policing on my part either.

I simply pointed out that, in your own words, 'responding in kind' and attacking the man because you perceived condescension was an immature, and rather childish response on your part. Tit for tat belongs in a playground.
How long have you been in here again? Possibly it was a slightly childish response but after a while you get sick of posters deliberately ascribing stuff to you that you haven't said, or just outright insulting you because they can't form a rational argument against your position. I mean let's face the facts, there are a few posters on here that strongly believe we can do better as a club and team with a new coach and other changes (obviously I put myself in that category), we as posters are in the minority, we don't have the umpires on our side, and are disproportionally abused on here with monotonous regularity which we rarely complain about. So in short I don't particularly care if I passively insult the odd Brisbane Lions fan on here if he's deliberately misrepresenting what I've said.;):thumbsu:
 

Cataholic

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How long have you been in here again? Possibly it was a slightly childish response but after a while you get sick of posters deliberately ascribing stuff to you that you haven't said, or just outright insulting you because they can't form a rational argument against your position. I mean let's face the facts, there are a few posters on here that strongly believe we can do better as a club and team with a new coach and other changes (obviously I put myself in that category), we as posters are in the minority, we don't have the umpires on our side, and are disproportionally abused on here with monotonous regularity which we rarely complain about. So in short I don't particularly care if I passively insult the odd Brisbane Lions fan on here if he's deliberately misrepresenting what I've said.;):thumbsu:
We have / had our differences, but I still respect your ability to make worthy contributions to the discussions here, and yes, even submit counter arguments. My point is that you are capable of doing so without having to resort to insults.

Anyhow, we're OT. I'm looking forward to the first few games of the new season to see what changes have been made with personnel, strategy and gameplan.
 
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How long have you been in here again? Possibly it was a slightly childish response but after a while you get sick of posters deliberately ascribing stuff to you that you haven't said, or just outright insulting you because they can't form a rational argument against your position. I mean let's face the facts, there are a few posters on here that strongly believe we can do better as a club and team with a new coach and other changes (obviously I put myself in that category), we as posters are in the minority, we don't have the umpires on our side, and are disproportionally abused on here with monotonous regularity which we rarely complain about. So in short I don't particularly care if I passively insult the odd Brisbane Lions fan on here if he's deliberately misrepresenting what I've said.;):thumbsu:
I didn't think it was childish at all. There have been countless times when other posters have called you far worst than a simpleton but everyone including the mods and the cop have ignore it........
Your campaign against Scott is fully justified and you aren't the only one who thinks he's hopeless, just because you voice it you shouldn't have to cop it without dishing it out, after all you want exactly what all us Geelong supporters want and that's a better club......
 

Partridge

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I didn't think it was childish at all. There have been countless times when other posters have called you far worst than a simpleton but everyone including the mods and the cop have ignore it........
Your campaign against Scott is fully justified and you aren't the only one who thinks he's hopeless, just because you voice it you shouldn't have to cop it without dishing it out, after all you want exactly what all us Geelong supporters want and that's a better club......
If other posters have a gripe when we deride other supporters fine, but they seem to be awfully quiet when far worse things are directed our way. That sentence is likely to be met with "playing the victim" bullshit, which is both incorrect and stupid. Incorrect because unlike the special snowflakes on here I don't need anyone's sympathy, and astonishingly stupid because if there's one group that would be incapable of making anyone a victim, it's the pro-Scott GFOs.

Scott may yet prove me wrong. But I saw nothing in our last final to show me anything has improved when it matters, and by gutting our depth, plus the wasteland that has been our recent drafting history, it's a struggle to see where a unified and consistent premiership combination is coming from.

Could be wrong. Hope I am.
 

Cataholic

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If other posters have a gripe when we deride other supporters fine, but they seem to be awfully quiet when far worse things are directed our way. That sentence is likely to be met with "playing the victim" bullshit, which is both incorrect and stupid. Incorrect because unlike the special snowflakes on here I don't need anyone's sympathy, and astonishingly stupid because if there's one group that would be incapable of making anyone a victim, it's the pro-Scott GFOs.

Scott may yet prove me wrong. But I saw nothing in our last final to show me anything has improved when it matters, and by gutting our depth, plus the wasteland that has been our recent drafting history, it's a struggle to see where a unified and consistent premiership combination is coming from.

Could be wrong. Hope I am.
I'm truly line ball on Scott, and will be looking keenly in early 2017 for clear improvements in gameplan, ball skills, and tactics.

I'll also be keenly interested in what the new guys have to bring, how the team gells, and whether we have what it takes.

For mine, 2017 is make or break for Scott.
 

cynical

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if you have concerns about the club and the people running it even if you have valid reasons and explain those reasons then you are basically the devil

fanbois dont need to make rational arguments they can just snipe with impunity
 

Cataholic

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if you have concerns about the club and the people running it even if you have valid reasons and explain those reasons then you are basically the devil

fanbois dont need to make rational arguments they can just snipe with impunity
I think both sides of the argument have been equally guilty of playing the man at times, but also believe there's enough sensible and decent posters each side of the fence to progress the discussion without insults, which have no place in an intelligent coversation.

2017 is going to be interesting, and I think the majority will be swayed towards a common line of thought on Scott once we see and digest a few games.
 

Partridge

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I'm truly line ball on Scott, and will be looking keenly in early 2017 for clear improvements in gameplan, ball skills, and tactics.

I'll also be keenly interested in what the new guys have to bring, how the team gells, and whether we have what it takes.

For mine, 2017 is make or break for Scott.
Yep, I reckon that's a pretty accurate assessment.
 

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Vdubs

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I'm truly line ball on Scott, and will be looking keenly in early 2017 for clear improvements in gameplan, ball skills, and tactics.

I'll also be keenly interested in what the new guys have to bring, how the team gells, and whether we have what it takes.

For mine, 2017 is make or break for Scott.
As we all know, 2017 is Scott's last year of this contract. So that bolded statement is spot-on.
 

Cataholic

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As we all know, 2017 is Scott's last year of this contract. So that bolded statement is spot-on.
That's true, and on the face of it, probably makes my statement somewhat obvious.

I should've explained it a little better by saying I think it will be make or break for him regardless of the contract status. People are getting a little restless, and I think those higher up the food chain at the club will be watching 2017 very intently.
 

Vdubs

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That's true, and on the face of it, probably makes my statement somewhat obvious.

I should've explained it a little better by saying I think it will be make or break for him regardless of the contract status. People are getting a little restless, and I think those higher up the food chain at the club will be watching 2017 very intently.
It's like how I felt before the Tigers game in 07, or even after 06 finished.
That was a make or break game. I had no fear of the outcome, because we were either going to smash them (which we did), OR we would get done and Bomber would likely have been terminated.
We all know the result there.
2017 is a similar feeling for me. I have supported CS all the way, and still have faith in him, but if we do finish outside the 8, time for a change. This recruiting we have been doing is for imminent success, 16 was the year they would have inwardly thought was for the taking, despite the newness of the list. 2017 is now the must-do year. I don't see 2018 as a realistic chance. But if we continue to be really competitive and go deep in finals, can we really ask for much more with that list and given what GWS and Dogs and Swans have?
 
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That's true, and on the face of it, probably makes my statement somewhat obvious.

I should've explained it a little better by saying I think it will be make or break for him regardless of the contract status. People are getting a little restless, and I think those higher up the food chain at the club will be watching 2017 very intently.
Yet Cook intimated earlier that they were already working on a post-Christmas contract extension.
 

Ray Donovan

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That's true, and on the face of it, probably makes my statement somewhat obvious.

I should've explained it a little better by saying I think it will be make or break for him regardless of the contract status. People are getting a little restless, and I think those higher up the food chain at the club will be watching 2017 very intently.
His record with a premiership and good regular season record make it a difficult decision. Apart from my personal opinion of his inability to give the team a structured gamestyle thats predictable and lets players grow into the system.

He is a reactive coach not a proactive one so our results reflect that our efficiency forward of centre sometimes when sides deny us the ability to get the ball over the back is hard to watch. The amount of F50 entries we had in the qualifying final and prelim which to be honest hawthorn should of won is incredible compared to our scoring efficiency.

If someone could describe what his plan consists of going forward to a simple supporter like me i would be blessed. Throws henderson forward in last two weeks of season after playing off half back all year. We struggled to manufacture scores against good sides so we play Stanley and Z.smith and henderson as our revolving forward line plus hawkins and expect to have good forward movement chemistry. Leaves kersten out so we can play 2 mobile rucks plays clark one game refuses to play vardy.

Both of those guys i might add are forward rucks what we needed to expose and the blic is your security blanket if one goes down.

But that is a personal opinion rant of frustrstion no i did not expect us to win the flag either i thought sydney and gws were the better sides and the doggies emerged late. Its one thing to get beaten on field and compete but getting beaten in the coaches box as well makes it even harder.

And yes i am making him a scapegoat so to speak but its the senior coach thats what happens they take the fall for the coaching team panel.

My fear is we need to rebuild soon and he has shown very little player development of youth. He and his brother brad adopt win now strategies so drafting a whole new list just instills me with fear.

Our list is clogged with bad contracts Zach Thuoy 4 year deal i mean wow carlton offered him 3. He pushes our champion veterans away Johnson for nothing delisted GWS laughed after offering two top 10 picks for him year before. Pushes jimmy out so we can squeeze zach thuoy into the cap.

It was nice to have the optomistic feel when we got danger to push for another flag and top up with mature players. Another one for enright bartel co would of been nice but we fell short o.k.

Then we give away another future first rounder and i think we are a 5 - 10 team this season with one top 30 pick drafted onto the list in the last 2 years.

Future is bright
 

Mr Meow

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It's like how I felt before the Tigers game in 07, or even after 06 finished.
That was a make or break game. I had no fear of the outcome, because we were either going to smash them (which we did), OR we would get done and Bomber would likely have been terminated.
We all know the result there.
2017 is a similar feeling for me. I have supported CS all the way, and still have faith in him, but if we do finish outside the 8, time for a change. This recruiting we have been doing is for imminent success, 16 was the year they would have inwardly thought was for the taking, despite the newness of the list. 2017 is now the must-do year. I don't see 2018 as a realistic chance. But if we continue to be really competitive and go deep in finals, can we really ask for much more with that list and given what GWS and Dogs and Swans have?
My expectation is something along the lines of:

2017 - prelim
2018 - semi
2019 - there abouts, never contenders

Not sure what decision that would lead to with Scott's contract. I guess a prelim would warrant a renewal this year, maybe looking for a new coach post 2018-2019 season. There's obviously a huge amount of room for over achievement or under achievement. Failure to win a final next year would surely put his head on the chopping block, and nabbing a flag or even a GF appearance next year would likely buy him a bank of extended good will.

I would say that from the 2015 recruiting drive, 2017 was likely to be our best shot at a flag in the next five years at least. Doesn't mean it's probable though. Losing AA Enright, the lack of an established CHF, the question marks about Scott picking the best balanced side, MCG stage fright and under performing mid tier players - too many question marks. With the bigger overall question - to what degree to we tinker with team selection and game style, and to what degree do we focus on maintaining our strengths of 2017? The defence desperately needed some pace, dynamism and damaging rebound. However it's likely that it will take this new mix a little while to settle and gel together.

I'll admit I got swept up in a little wave of optimism at points during last season, undoubtedly aided by our supreme luck with injuries and the lack of dominant pace setters. I think even with the loss of Enright and list depth we could well function better as a team next season, but the bar to be a true contender will be raised if GWS/Bulldogs hit their level and Swans remain about the same.
 

Biggy_Boy

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I would say that from the 2015 recruiting drive, 2017 was likely to be our best shot at a flag in the next five years at least. Doesn't mean it's probable though. Losing AA Enright, the lack of an established CHF, the question marks about Scott picking the best balanced side, MCG stage fright and under performing mid tier players - too many question marks. With the bigger overall question - to what degree to we tinker with team selection and game style, and to what degree do we focus on maintaining our strengths of 2017? The defence desperately needed some pace, dynamism and damaging rebound. However it's likely that it will take this new mix a little while to settle and gel together.
I think we'll ultimately come to realise that 2016 was the best chance for a flag from that recruiting drive and from that group.
 

Vdubs

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His record with a premiership and good regular season record make it a difficult decision. Apart from my personal opinion of his inability to give the team a structured gamestyle thats predictable and lets players grow into the system.

He is a reactive coach not a proactive one so our results reflect that our efficiency forward of centre sometimes when sides deny us the ability to get the ball over the back is hard to watch. The amount of F50 entries we had in the qualifying final and prelim which to be honest hawthorn should of won is incredible compared to our scoring efficiency.

If someone could describe what his plan consists of going forward to a simple supporter like me i would be blessed. Throws henderson forward in last two weeks of season after playing off half back all year. We struggled to manufacture scores against good sides so we play Stanley and Z.smith and henderson as our revolving forward line plus hawkins and expect to have good forward movement chemistry. Leaves kersten out so we can play 2 mobile rucks plays clark one game refuses to play vardy.

Both of those guys i might add are forward rucks what we needed to expose and the blic is your security blanket if one goes down.

But that is a personal opinion rant of frustrstion no i did not expect us to win the flag either i thought sydney and gws were the better sides and the doggies emerged late. Its one thing to get beaten on field and compete but getting beaten in the coaches box as well makes it even harder.

And yes i am making him a scapegoat so to speak but its the senior coach thats what happens they take the fall for the coaching team panel.

My fear is we need to rebuild soon and he has shown very little player development of youth. He and his brother brad adopt win now strategies so drafting a whole new list just instills me with fear.

Our list is clogged with bad contracts Zach Thuoy 4 year deal i mean wow carlton offered him 3. He pushes our champion veterans away Johnson for nothing delisted GWS laughed after offering two top 10 picks for him year before. Pushes jimmy out so we can squeeze zach thuoy into the cap.

It was nice to have the optomistic feel when we got danger to push for another flag and top up with mature players. Another one for enright bartel co would of been nice but we fell short o.k.

Then we give away another future first rounder and i think we are a 5 - 10 team this season with one top 30 pick drafted onto the list in the last 2 years.

Future is bright
Having been a very LT Cat supporter, we have not really had to experience the gradual and regular departure of so many immortals.
Not in my lifetime had we been a 3-flags-in-5-years team.
Admittedly, we were excellent from 89-95, and then we had some lean years until 2004.
We have all become accustomed to OUR team being the bench-mark state of the art team, and now, we simply are not.
We are still a great club, and CS has managed to hybridise our team enough to still be really competitive.
But I get the sense that many supporters here are despairing because it appears we may not be flag bound. Of course that is the ultimate goal for all teams, and yes, 2016 we were rated as a big chance. And perhaps, we had the list and luck with injuries to have done better- but even that was not our case in September.
We definitely saw a great year from Hendo, and his injury was untimely and costly, and more so, Menzel. We really needed his forward pressure and sheer class in the Swans final. He was probably off for several weeks leading to that game. Even Caddy did not impose himself on returning to the team- he had been consistent and useful pre-injury.
And there was the bye, or should I say, BYES. A definite issue.
But to say CS is a reactive coach, although obviously true in many ways, but he really has to be. We had lost significant talent as Hawthorn was meanwhile peaking, and now the new age teams are taking over. Does CS really have the sheer talent in our list to be any more proactive than what he was?
This team continues to evolve, too quickly for my liking, and CS has to as well. I just wonder whether any other coach would really do a better job. He knows his limitations and weaknesses, and we have to hope that Cook and Lloyd etc can give him the required assistance.
 

Mr Meow

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I think we'll ultimately come to realise that 2016 was the best chance for a flag from that recruiting drive and from that group.
It certainly was a "perfect storm" kind of year that ultimately wasn't capitalised on. On paper, winning first week of finals to get a week off and hosting a "home" prelim against interstate opposition - dream scenario, might as well dust off the 2011 script. The new finals format, coupled with our hideous post bye record, sprinkled with "home" being a ground we haven't played well at for a long time, against opposition who belted us away from their home deck earlier in the year already. Few danger signs there. Going into finals I thought we'd take care of Hawthorn and be knocked out by Sydney. I just anticipated that would be in the GF. It was certainly the best chance to catch GWS out, as the Bulldogs managed to do.

I'm of the mindset that GWS will be more difficult to stop this year and Sydney should still have our number. I don't think it should be underestimated how the Bulldogs had a perfect storm of their own for finals with the new format, their ladder position, timely returns and then incredible momentum as they surged to break the drought. They should be a top 4 team next year, but a let down of sorts wouldn't surprise me.

I would be disappointed and surprised if we didn't stay above the rising pack of Adelaide, Melbourne, St Kilda, Collingwood etc next year though. 8 of our best 22 weren't at all, or were barely on the field together in the year prior. In my opinion as a group they overachieved, but should still get better. It's already been repeated to ad finitum, but the weaker link was the guys who had been established for a few years, and all else remaining equal, they are the group we're depending on to go any steps further in 2017.
 
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Seems to be a bit of revisionism here.....my recollection is a large proportion of posters on this site had Geelong finishing in the 5-8 position after the H&A season, and not many, if any, claiming we'd take the Premiership. There was considerable belief that it would take the side a year or so to "gel".

Now?...2016 was our best shot. o_O
 

Ray Donovan

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Having been a very LT Cat supporter, we have not really had to experience the gradual and regular departure of so many immortals.
Not in my lifetime had we been a 3-flags-in-5-years team.
Admittedly, we were excellent from 89-95, and then we had some lean years until 2004.
We have all become accustomed to OUR team being the bench-mark state of the art team, and now, we simply are not.
We are still a great club, and CS has managed to hybridise our team enough to still be really competitive.
But I get the sense that many supporters here are despairing because it appears we may not be flag bound. Of course that is the ultimate goal for all teams, and yes, 2016 we were rated as a big chance. And perhaps, we had the list and luck with injuries to have done better- but even that was not our case in September.
We definitely saw a great year from Hendo, and his injury was untimely and costly, and more so, Menzel. We really needed his forward pressure and sheer class in the Swans final. He was probably off for several weeks leading to that game. Even Caddy did not impose himself on returning to the team- he had been consistent and useful pre-injury.
And there was the bye, or should I say, BYES. A definite issue.
But to say CS is a reactive coach, although obviously true in many ways, but he really has to be. We had lost significant talent as Hawthorn was meanwhile peaking, and now the new age teams are taking over. Does CS really have the sheer talent in our list to be any more proactive than what he was?
This team continues to evolve, too quickly for my liking, and CS has to as well. I just wonder whether any other coach would really do a better job. He knows his limitations and weaknesses, and we have to hope that Cook and Lloyd etc can give him the required assistance.
Having been a very LT Cat supporter, we have not really had to experience the gradual and regular departure of so many immortals.
Not in my lifetime had we been a 3-flags-in-5-years team.
Admittedly, we were excellent from 89-95, and then we had some lean years until 2004.
We have all become accustomed to OUR team being the bench-mark state of the art team, and now, we simply are not.
We are still a great club, and CS has managed to hybridise our team enough to still be really competitive.
But I get the sense that many supporters here are despairing because it appears we may not be flag bound. Of course that is the ultimate goal for all teams, and yes, 2016 we were rated as a big chance. And perhaps, we had the list and luck with injuries to have done better- but even that was not our case in September.
We definitely saw a great year from Hendo, and his injury was untimely and costly, and more so, Menzel. We really needed his forward pressure and sheer class in the Swans final. He was probably off for several weeks leading to that game. Even Caddy did not impose himself on returning to the team- he had been consistent and useful pre-injury.
And there was the bye, or should I say, BYES. A definite issue.
But to say CS is a reactive coach, although obviously true in many ways, but he really has to be. We had lost significant talent as Hawthorn was meanwhile peaking, and now the new age teams are taking over. Does CS really have the sheer talent in our list to be any more proactive than what he was?
This team continues to evolve, too quickly for my liking, and CS has to as well. I just wonder whether any other coach would really do a better job. He knows his limitations and weaknesses, and we have to hope that Cook and Lloyd etc can give him the required assistance.
2012 (0-1)
6th
Elimination final lost freo
In.
No notable trades
Orren stephenson
Kersten (32) hamling (34) mcarthy (66)
Bews father son

2013 (1-3)
2nd regular season
Lost prelim to hawthorn
No notable trade changes

2014
Geelong 3rd regular season (1-5)
Lost qualifying final hawthorn
Semi final lost north melbourne

Ins clark, stanley pick (21) S.blease

2015
Missed finals
10th

Ins
Selwood, Dangerfield, S.Selwood, Z.Smith
Menegola

2016 (2-6)
2nd regular season
Preliminary final

Black
Thuoy

When you mention hawthorn peaking they won in 2008 so they were definately on the radar. As i mentioned his record is very good and i don't expect flags every year i understand as a supporter we may not see another in my lifetime they are so hard to win. Since 2012 we have finished top (4) 3 times and and he carries a 2-6 record since 2012 in finals.

I don't believe any of the above mentioned years we went in with the best list or premiership favourites.

But this is where my perception comes in we have game and strategy coaches proactive like clarkson now he is the best in the game and the guys that were assistants to him
Simpson (grand final)
Cameron (prelim)
Beveridge (premiers)
Bolton 1 season (watch this space)

Hardwick ( not my favourite ) multiple finals

All these guys bring a new age game plan and have the ability to innovate be proactive in the box simpson with the web, bolton the press, and beveridge is well we know already.

I just do not see the same ability with chris scott he had a magnificient first season he took over an experienced list. And it has been difficult trying to regenerate it while having good results but i have never felt since 2011 that geelong has ever held a tactical advantage coaching wise. Personal opinion of course and being a biased supported if i did feel that i would praise him.

His regular season record is superb but now he has been at the helm for 5-6 seasons which is a good run for a senior coach and next year our starting side will consist of probably 8 mature age recruits that came from other clubs and it has happened while scott has been at the helm.

We will not have a first round draft selection in two seasons we have no depth in KPP outside of our starting 22.

Im not worried about premierships and winning every year i know its not realistic our golden era is nearly closed selwood ,hawkins, taylor, mackie our last remaining links. I worry about the future and us becoming carlton falling dramatically remember all our talented youngsters
Laang, Thurlow, cockatoo first round selections.
Koladashnij and gregson look like good picks.
Now we skip two years of first rounders
People will laugh at me now but project 4-5 years down the track thats where it hurts.

I don't have faith he is the man to rebuild when the time comes and it comes for every club even sydney one day.
 
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