Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

For how long will Chris Scott be Geelong coach?

  • For as long as he wants the job

  • 5+ more years

  • Somewhere between 2020 and 2022 (i.e. beyond his current contract)

  • He will be sacked/resign in 2019

  • He will be sacked/resign in 2018

  • The Nuclear Option: sacked/resign in 2017


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Willo_

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I'm truly line ball on Scott, and will be looking keenly in early 2017 for clear improvements in gameplan, ball skills, and tactics.

I'll also be keenly interested in what the new guys have to bring, how the team gells, and whether we have what it takes.

For mine, 2017 is make or break for Scott.
I'm exactly the same

It's why I have said all along there is no need to re-sign him early as well.

No need to rush the call, let things take their course and go from there
 

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geelong_crazy26

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This thread is still going on? Lol.

Cook rates him very highly, and cook is the best CEO in the business.

Suck it up sooks. His staying for a long time.

Reality is there are always those club supporters who whinge about everything if we don't win a premiership and sniff out negativity like a pig after truffles. They enjoy complaining and it is just too big a part of their thought chain to ever do much else.

If the club was run by these professional sky is falling whingers, we would be a hovel of a club in matter of years.

Keep up the work Scotty!! Your no pathetic Malcolm blight of Geelong. Already taken us to the promise land and will do so again.
 

STP18

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Needs to win something soon then. Early days he was all about "challenging in the now while not sacrificing the future". We've traded out 3 1st round draft picks in a row, so that mantra has obviously taken a backseat as we are going all in for the next year/couple of years. If we win a premiership short term then he is absolutely redeemed, but what if we don't?
 

BlightysCats

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Cook rates him very highly, and cook is the best CEO in the business.
Cook was one of the best CEO's in the business but the fact is we wouldn't have made a profit over the last two seasons except for private donations, and he's also stood down a number of long serving loyal staff at the GFC over the last few years and many believe that may have damaged the fabric of the club - while all Geelong supporters should rightly be grateful for his efforts turning the club around, even the best can sometimes outstay their welcome and if Scott is re-signed prior to the 2017 season and we have another average result especially in finals then a challenge will come and both Cook and Scott will be in the firing line.
An interesting passage from James Button's book 'Comeback.'
'In 2014/15 a club that prides itself on its values found that it had to sack people; including people who had been there a long time and were seen as part of the clubs fabric. Cook and human resources manager Rosie King say they drew the lesson from this unhappy time that values have to include excellence and making staff accountable for achieving it, otherwise it can be a shield for mediocrity.'

Now if Cook is sacking people that are considered part of the 'fabric of the club' for not achieving excellence then the question has to be asked has Scott achieved excellence over the last 5 years? If not, how can Cook justify his continued employment and if he does then how can he justify his own?
I guarantee these questions are already being asked by powerful people in and around the club and 2017 will have more scrutiny on it performance wise on field than any year since 2006 and poor performance in finals particularly will simply not be tolerated anymore.
 
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Sttew

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Cook was one of the best CEO's in the business but the fact is we wouldn't have made a profit over the last two seasons except for private donations, .
I swear that when responding to your posts it feels like I am posting on the AFL Board and having to defend things said by hostile opposition supporters. It was only a matter of time you would turn on Brian Cook. Since you are so enlightened, tell us why the club has not turned a profit in the past two years.
 
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I swear that when responding to your posts it feels like I am posting on the AFL Board and having to defend things said by hostile opposition supporters. It was only a matter of time you would turn on Brian Cook. Since you are so enlightened, tell us why the club has not turned a profit in the past two years.
*raises hand* I know this one Miss, please miss I know the answer.

Home games at Etihad (with barely break even crowds) and stadium building and loan costs to pay for. I think we've only just paid off the loan for the Premiership Stand and there's still some left on the Players Stand.
 

Willo_

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Cook was one of the best CEO's in the business but the fact is we wouldn't have made a profit over the last two seasons except for private donations, and he's also stood down a number of long serving staff at the GFC over the last few years that many believe have damaged the fabric of the club - while all Geelong supporters should rightly be grateful for his efforts turning the club around, even the best can sometimes outstay their welcome and if Scott is re-signed prior to the 2017 season and we have another average result especially in finals then a challenge will come and both Cook and Scott will be in the firing line.
An interesting passage from James Button's book 'Comeback.'
'In 2014/15 a club that prides itself on its values found that it had to sack people; including people who had been there a long time and were seen as part of the clubs fabric. Cook and human resources manager Rosie King say they drew the lesson from this unhappy time that values have to include excellence and making staff accountable for achieving it, otherwise it can be a shield for mediocrity.'

Now if Cook is sacking people that are considered part of the 'fabric of the club' for not achieving excellence then the question has to be asked has Scott achieved excellence over the last 5 years? If not, how can Cook justify his continued employment and if he does then how can he justify his own?
I guarantee these questions are already being asked by powerful people in and around the club and 2017 will have more scrutiny on it performance wise on field than any year since 2006 and poor performance in finals particularly will simply not be tolerated anymore.
That is actually a well thought out reasoned post... but you are dealing with some people who simply cannot question... or be seen to question the club on this board anyway... and the fact you mentioned a key figure for our success means people will scoff, regardless of what you have even said.
(And the fact that because you go so hard some are against you regardless of what you ever say)

Not one single person in the club/organisation should be above being questioned.
Whilst I don't share always share the views on things the way you do I can understand your point here.

The question really is on who is held responsible, I've seen people question our developement, our assistants, our recruiting etc etc... it makes sense that if all are struggling the person employing them gets asked questions as well
 

BlightysCats

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I swear that when responding to your posts it feels like I am posting on the AFL Board and having to defend things said by hostile opposition supporters. It was only a matter of time you would turn on Brian Cook. Since you are so enlightened, tell us why the club has not turned a profit in the past two years.
I'm not turning on Cook, all I'm saying is he's been there a long time and if he ties himself too closely with Scott he'll leave himself open to being forced to go when Scott goes.
Another quote from 'Comeback'..
'When I told Cook that a couple of people connected to the club said he had been there too long and had grown tired, he emphatically rejected the charge...'
I suppose those people connected to the club have turned on Cook and hate the club too? Jeez you Scott devotees are so precious, you can't handle any serious analysis or critique of the club at all.
 
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*raises hand* I know this one Miss, please miss I know the answer.

Home games at Etihad (with barely break even crowds) and stadium building and loan costs to pay for. I think we've only just paid off the loan for the Premiership Stand and there's still some left on the Players Stand.

Its funny how the obvious is so clearly being ignored for the sake of making a point.

" while all Geelong supporters should rightly be grateful for his efforts turning the club around, even the best can sometimes outstay their welcome"

I guess the same could be said for some on here Lol.
 
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Its funny how the obvious is so clearly being ignored for the sake of making a point.

" while all Geelong supporters should rightly be grateful for his efforts turning the club around, even the best can sometimes outstay their welcome"

I guess the same could be said for some on here Lol.
Won't be long anyway, he's already earmarked overseeing the stadium redevelopment then moving on.
 

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Bobby_

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That is actually a well thought out reasoned post... but you are dealing with some people who simply cannot question... or be seen to question the club on this board anyway... and the fact you mentioned a key figure for our success means people will scoff, regardless of what you have even said.
(And the fact that because you go so hard some are against you regardless of what you ever say)

Not one single person in the club/organisation should be above being questioned.
Whilst I don't share always share the views on things the way you do I can understand your point here.

The question really is on who is held responsible, I've seen people question our developement, our assistants, our recruiting etc etc... it makes sense that if all are struggling the person employing them gets asked questions as well
good post as per usual Willo. I've personally been very upfront and very scathing in the direction this club has now gone. Too excessive? Probably. I still honestly believe our once great club is going to be in for some real pain in the coming years. It is now almost un-fixable. This coaching staff has not been able to develop long term talent. We are so devoid of promising types that only via trading can we fill in the cracks to remain somewhat relevant for the meantime. I was always adament that we needed to draft in a quality young ruckman. It all starts there. Instead, we have been bringing in these 26-28yr old inconsistent-injury-prone rucks and look at where they have taken us. In the 2016 finals campaign, Stanley and Smith were outpointed by ruck divisions who were banged up. Chris Scott and his coaching staff also failed to develop promising key forwards on the list. Instead, they banked on the likes of Mitch Clark, Lachie Henderson (Harry Taylor) and now Aaron Black to get it done. We are a second hand football club trying to get it done as Hawthorn did in 2013. Only exception with Hawthorn's second half squad was they had a coaching staff who could bring out the very best in their rejects while also seeing many youngsters take a jump from being B graders to elite, most notably Smith, Puopolo, Gunston, Breust, Stratton and even Rioli who is now a consistent performer. Liam Shiels another one who could have been classified in the Josh Caddy class of midfielders only 3 years ago but is now one of their more important players.
 

Bobby_

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another worry is we are seeing so many younger players ask to be traded. Caddy, Christensen, Hamling, Jansen, Vardy, Kersten. Motlop will be another that ends up leaving end of next year. Whether they brought it upon themselves in the first place is debatle. The enviroment they were living in was obviously not the best to begin with. I cannot recall many talented younger players leaving when Thompson, McCartney and Tudor were in charge. We lost Nathan Ablett and Brent Prismall. Simon Hogan was another that walked due to off field issues but apart from that, the exodus we are now witnessing under Scott's reign is going to send us back quite a while. Let's just hope Mitch Duncan does not get too home sick end of 2017.
 

BlightysCats

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good post as per usual Willo. I've personally been very upfront and very scathing in the direction this club has now gone. Too excessive? Probably. I still honestly believe our once great club is going to be in for some real pain in the coming years. It is now almost un-fixable. This coaching staff has not been able to develop long term talent. We are so devoid of promising types that only via trading can we fill in the cracks to remain somewhat relevant for the meantime. I was always adament that we needed to draft in a quality young ruckman. It all starts there. Instead, we have been bringing in these 26-28yr old inconsistent-injury-prone rucks and look at where they have taken us. In the 2016 finals campaign, Stanley and Smith were outpointed by ruck divisions who were banged up. Chris Scott and his coaching staff also failed to develop promising key forwards on the list. Instead, they banked on the likes of Mitch Clark, Lachie Henderson (Harry Taylor) and now Aaron Black to get it done. We are a second hand football club trying to get it done as Hawthorn did in 2013. Only exception with Hawthorn's second half squad was they had a coaching staff who could bring out the very best in their rejects while also seeing many youngsters take a jump from being B graders to elite, most notably Smith, Puopolo, Gunston, Breust, Stratton and even Rioli who is now a consistent performer. Liam Shiels another one who could have been classified in the Josh Caddy class of midfielders only 3 years ago but is now one of their more important players.
Yep, we've made too many mistakes to get back now. Even if we did magically develop some unbelievable kids in the next year or two we wouldn't be able to keep them because Danger is taking up so much of our cap.
 

Bobby_

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Yep, we've made too many mistakes to get back now. Even if we did magically develop some unbelievable kids in the next year or two we wouldn't be able to keep them because Danger is taking up so much of our cap.
Kolodjashnij has been very good. I was harping on about playing him over Andrew Mackie as early as last year so at least he's coming along nicely. Thurlow was going well before he suffered a knee injury. Menegola is still unknown as it's too early to call him a success just yet. He looked lost in the finals. Sort of how Sheringham and Simpkin did when they played as mature agers. With Tom Hawins, Joel Selwood and Harry Taylor facing the last year or two of playing at an elite level (Hawkins appears to already be in free fall), we aren't going to be physically ready if we get another shot at it like we did this year. The list is completely lop-sided in many areas. Not just in age but also in playability and style. Not enough hard nuts or enforcers and also far too top heavy in the defensive side of the ground just as it has been since 2012 already.
 

Willo_

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good post as per usual Willo. I've personally been very upfront and very scathing in the direction this club has now gone. Too excessive? Probably. I still honestly believe our once great club is going to be in for some real pain in the coming years. It is now almost un-fixable. This coaching staff has not been able to develop long term talent. We are so devoid of promising types that only via trading can we fill in the cracks to remain somewhat relevant for the meantime. I was always adament that we needed to draft in a quality young ruckman. It all starts there. Instead, we have been bringing in these 26-28yr old inconsistent-injury-prone rucks and look at where they have taken us. In the 2016 finals campaign, Stanley and Smith were outpointed by ruck divisions who were banged up. Chris Scott and his coaching staff also failed to develop promising key forwards on the list. Instead, they banked on the likes of Mitch Clark, Lachie Henderson (Harry Taylor) and now Aaron Black to get it done. We are a second hand football club trying to get it done as Hawthorn did in 2013. Only exception with Hawthorn's second half squad was they had a coaching staff who could bring out the very best in their rejects while also seeing many youngsters take a jump from being B graders to elite, most notably Smith, Puopolo, Gunston, Breust, Stratton and even Rioli who is now a consistent performer. Liam Shiels another one who could have been classified in the Josh Caddy class of midfielders only 3 years ago but is now one of their more important players.
Ok.... who has logged into Bobs account :D
 

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Yep, we've made too many mistakes to get back now. Even if we did magically develop some unbelievable kids in the next year or two we wouldn't be able to keep them because Danger is taking up so much of our cap.
Serious questions:

Who would you replace Cook with?

Who would you replace Scott with?

What would you do with Danger?
 

BlightysCats

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Serious questions:

Who would you replace Cook with?

Who would you replace Scott with?

What would you do with Danger?
Well I don't want to replace Cook, for Scott there are many candidates - Roos, Bomber, Corey, Dew, Ratten.
Obviously you've got to keep Danger till his current deal is up and hope he takes a bit of a pay cut at the end of that.
 

GTOA

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Well I don't want to replace Cook, for Scott there are many candidates - Roos, Bomber, Corey, Dew, Ratten.
Obviously you've got to keep Danger till his current deal is up and hope he takes a bit of a pay cut at the end of that.

Let's go through these so called coaching candidates.

Paul Roos would be no good, because he can only commit to two or three years at a time, since his wife has him by the balls and he has to move to Hawaii with her.

My brother is a Melbourne supporter, and he would be pissed off if Roos leaves Melbourne after three years, only to pop up elsewhere.

Bomber- Get over Bomber. That is in the past. He doesn't have it any more.

Bomber plays older players, and didn't play youth in his last couple of years, so we would have dropped off a cliff and "done a St. Kilda" if he had still been there. Scott was at least prepared to blood youth.

Also, Bomber's rep has fallen through the floor since Essendon. No other club wanted to touch him. Add to that how he left Geelong, and it would be a step backwards.

How, BlightyCats, how about you suggest Geelong getting Malcolm Blight back, while you are at it? Since you want a trip down memory lane and a yearning for the past.

Also, I don't see how being our drought-breaking coach means that Bomber is forgiven forever and a day, and never held to account in the eyes of people on this board for his poor coaching and team selection in 2008 GF, (and losing us the unlosable GF), his 2006 and 2010 seasons (any other president would have caved and sacked Bomber in 2006) and then the lies he told when he left, especially to Costa, who saved his ass in 2006. Maybe you should take the rose-colored glasses off when it comes to Bomber and see that, for his positives, he had many faults as well.

Dew can't coach us, since Longmire refuses to let him out of his assistant coach contract, and Ratten probably needs time to get over his son's death (grief, especially of a child, can take a long time to get over).

None of who you suggest is practical. What you should wish for instead is that Chris Scott proves you wrong and coaches us to another flag.
 

GTOA

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another worry is we are seeing so many younger players ask to be traded. Caddy, Christensen, Hamling, Jansen, Vardy, Kersten. Motlop will be another that ends up leaving end of next year. Whether they brought it upon themselves in the first place is debatle. The enviroment they were living in was obviously not the best to begin with. I cannot recall many talented younger players leaving when Thompson, McCartney and Tudor were in charge. We lost Nathan Ablett and Brent Prismall. Simon Hogan was another that walked due to off field issues but apart from that, the exodus we are now witnessing under Scott's reign is going to send us back quite a while. Let's just hope Mitch Duncan does not get too home sick end of 2017.

Josh Caddy-Overrated and lazy. Should have be traded for Deledio from the start, but idiots on this board are too busy jerking off to Caddy to see a worthwhile deal when it stares them in the face.

Many of you here said "Let's wait a year and Deledio will come to us for free". Well, now you have eggs on your faces. Morons!

Allan Christensen- Don't know why he left, but maybe cheating with another player's girl and gambling issues meant that he had to leave.

Joel Hamling- 0 games for Geelong. Left for one simple reason, because he couldn't squeeze into our champion backline. He's at his third club already, so that shows his loyalty (same for Caddy going from one club to the next).

Jarred Jansen- 0 games for Geelong. No loss.

Nathan Vardy- The only reason I can think that he was let go is the fear that he isn't 100% fit. Otherwise why get rid of a player who fills a need (second key tall). If WCE think that they can makes finals with Vardy as their major ruckman, then they are kidding themselves (not reflection on Vardy's talent, but his injury history).

Shane Kersten-Most of you didn't rate him anyway, so you got what you wanted. You should applaud Scott for getting rid of him.

Steven Motlop-Many here have called for Motlop to be moved on for the last couple of years. He takes up a lot of the salary cap, and doesn't match his intensity with his pay packet.

Very selective there, picking out those players, and claiming that we lost only THREE players the ten years Bomber was there. Didn't Bomber move on Jeremy Laidler (who played in the GF this year). Also, Shane Mumford left on Bomber's watch, because Bomber gave up one of the best ruckman in the AFL, so that Mark Blake wouldn't cry about missing another GF. Let that sink in for a moment.
All this while persisting with hacks like Charlie Gardiner and Henry Playfair.

So a Grand Final defender and one of the best ruckman currently in the AFL could still have been at Geelong, but left on Bomber's watch. Add to that GARY Ablett jr, (since Gazza left before Scott got there, and according to most of you, he had already decided to leave before Chris Scott had ever arrived, so you can't blame Scott for that), who Bomber bullied out of the place. Sure, Gazza may have decided to leave, but any hope of talking him into staying was destroyed by Bomber's sulky, petulant, unprofessional and, as it tuned out, hypocritical attitude.

Gary Ablett and Shane Mumford are much bigger losses than any of the people we lost under Chris Scott.

Also, if we could recruit a better list, and not be restricted by the AFL giving GWS all those picks, then we could have got some better talent in. But our high finishes, and the entry of the AFL's "golden boy" clubs pushed us way down the pecking order for picks. Maybe if you stopped riding Bomber's cock for ten minutes, you will see what I am talking about.
 
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fpm84

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I am a Scott fan and don't believe any coach could have done a better job transitioning our list between 2011-2017 given the losses of all-time club greats like Scarlett, Ottens, Milburn, Ling, Corey, Chapman and Johnson to name a few.

But there's no arguing that 2017 is a make or break season for him. If we tread water or go backwards, questions will rightly be asked about not only his match day abilities but the club's philosophy in trading in mid-aged players with an eye on short-term success.

I firmly believe that our 2017 squad is good enough to win the premiership and beat any other team, so the entire club from the CEO and coach down need to bear responsibility if we fail to genuinely challenge.
 

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Well I don't want to replace Cook, for Scott there are many candidates - Roos, Bomber, Corey, Dew, Ratten.
Obviously you've got to keep Danger till his current deal is up and hope he takes a bit of a pay cut at the end of that.
The message, culture and strategy that a coach employs is finite - it degrades over time with a particular playing group, some quicker than others.

Sometimes they can reinvent themselves by taking on a new club and playing group, but rarely can a coach translate such a move to the ultimate success.

With that in mind, I'm of the belief that Roos, Bomber, Ratten and Dew are all shot - I don't think they'd resonate with the players any more, or have the ability to evolve with their strategies.....

Corey - does he want to coach?

Dangerfield - you gotta pay near top shelf for the best.
 
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BlightysCats

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None of who you suggest is practical. What you should wish for instead is that Chris Scott proves you wrong and coaches us to another flag
All of them except Bomber are practical it's just you don't think they are because you're so deluded you think we can win a flag under Scott next year. We are doomed under Scott; done, gone, finished as a legitimate finals force. I don't take pleasure in saying it but we lack the depth in our list, the gamestyle, the speed and skill, and when it comes to the crunch the players simply don't show enough passion and clearly don't play for him. 2016 will prove to be a one off and with a harder draw and in all likelihood more injuries next year and the loss of Enright, Caddy, and Bartel we're going nowhere but backwards which will mean goodbye Chris Scott - and hello optimism for the future of the GFC instead of the darkness we currently inhabit as a club.
 
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