Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

For how long will Chris Scott be Geelong coach?

  • For as long as he wants the job

  • 5+ more years

  • Somewhere between 2020 and 2022 (i.e. beyond his current contract)

  • He will be sacked/resign in 2019

  • He will be sacked/resign in 2018

  • The Nuclear Option: sacked/resign in 2017


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PhatBoy

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What if you don't clear out and rebuild, but keep your draft picks and focus more on developing your own core of players?

Or another question:

What if you give away draft picks, and get all these ready made 25-26 year olds that guarantee success, what happens if that goes wrong?

On your first point, ok we traded some draft picks but by and large, most of them weren't high picks. Surely even the most 'rebuild-driven' supporter would acknowledge that once you get outside the top 10-15, the quality plateaus significantly and good scouting can still find you plenty of decent talent. Which is exactly what we've tried to do.

Obviously we've gone the second route and at this stage we don't know if it has or hasn't worked. If it doesn't, you're no worse off than what you would be if you'd tried rebuilding and failed.

What's worse, being down the bottom with a team of 21 year old duds, or being down the bottom with a few 21 year old duds that have literally done nothing, and some mid to high 20s players who, while not being world beaters (ie. what a number of our players will be classified as in 2-3 years) can still command a bit of trade value?

Sure, by the time that period rolls around our 3 most valuable players will be too old to trade for anything worthwhile, but players like Duncan, Motlop, Menzel etc would be worth at least something.

So in the two parallel 'worst case scenarios' one of them still looks better than the other.
 

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BlightysCats

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Please find these articles stating that players at st kilda or port Adelaide, Geelong are confused by their roles and what is being reached to them or any coach for that matter. This is simply you making stuff up again blighty just like the imaginary Paul chapman quote which you could never give a page reference for when I asked.
If your trying to solve the mystery of why AFL coaches further develop themselves with added training such as seminars and learning programs, well I'm sure someone else can explain to you what continual improvement is and innovation, clubs do this in many ways all the time. It doesn't mean your good or bad at it, they are all improving and finding ways to constantly.

And no blighty, you don't need to be a teacher to be a successful afl coach.
There's no media around the programs at Port and StKilda they're in house I only know about them because my good mate is running one of them, he's given me detailed insight in to how it's going and the types of communication problems coaches at these clubs have with their players, the coaches have been incredibly receptive to learning deeper and better pedagogy because they've already seen great benefits from the seminars. Initially the Melb Uni education seminars were only a two week trial during pre-season but both clubs have signed up for a 6 week block beginning soon because they got so much out of the initial seminars.

You'd have no idea how simple some of the miscommunication is around simple ideas/concepts let alone complex game plans so while teachers might not make the best coaches (though there's overwhelming evidence they at the very least make better coaches) good coaches in 2017 have to be great teachers.
 

BlightysCats

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The stability of the club that he speaks of would no longer exist if we went more than 3 seasons without seeing a return for investment.
Ha, ha, ha you have so much faith in our club that 3 seasons down the ladder and suddenly it's the apocalypse.
 

BlightysCats

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You have so much faith in the club that 10 seasons up the ladder and suddenly it's the apocalypse, based on the drivel in this thread.
Rubbish I only ever talk about the last 5 seasons of mediocrity, I don't say the clubs on the brink of failure or instability off field, never once have I said I don't trust we're in a strong position off field.
 

geelong_crazy26

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There's no media around the programs at Port and StKilda they're in house I only know about them because my good mate is running one of them, he's given me detailed insight in to how it's going and the types of communication problems coaches at these clubs have with their players, the coaches have been incredibly receptive to learning deeper and better pedagogy because they've already seen great benefits from the seminars. Initially the Melb Uni education seminars were only a two week trial during pre-season but both clubs have signed up for a 6 week block beginning soon because they got so much out of the initial seminars.

You'd have no idea how simple some of the miscommunication is around simple ideas/concepts let alone complex game plans so while teachers might not make the best coaches (though there's overwhelming evidence they at the very least make better coaches) good coaches in 2017 have to be great teachers.
That's all well and good, every club has dozens of innovative programs and things they implement to improve and constantly innovate, this is common practice year round. I have no doubt 18 clubs are and I know for a fact Geelong do from the many times I have been down there and the relationship I have with someone involved with list management.

Nothing ground breakingly really, I would be concerned if clubs stopped development programs for players and coaches.

If there was any communication issues with Scott and the players, I would know about it first hand. I can say there isn't with certainty
 

geelong_crazy26

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Hardly surprising you find BC's post to be "brilliantly put". He's had over 1,450 goes at saying the same thing in this thread*, which is some record.

* Not to mention the 1,000+ posts in Part 1
Might need to book bc in for one of these communication seminars then
 

BlightysCats

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That's all well and good, every club has dozens of innovative programs and things they implement to improve and constantly innovate, this is common practice year round. I have no doubt 18 clubs are and I know for a fact Geelong do from the many times I have been down there and the relationship I have with someone involved with list management.

Nothing ground breakingly really, I would be concerned if clubs stopped development programs for players and coaches.

If there was any communication issues with Scott and the players, I would know about it first hand. I can say there isn't with certainty
I wasn't arguing it was ground breaking I was arguing that clubs wouldn't invest in such programs unless communication and teaching were crucial in modern coaching. It doesn't matter what game plan you have if you can't communicate it and teach it well enough to the players then there's no hope of success and the best teacher/student relationships are built on the mutual trust and understanding that come with good communication. This would explain why the two most recent premiership coaches both have outstanding relationships with their respective playing groups.
 

BlightysCats

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Might need to book bc in for one of these communication seminars then
They're not communication seminars they're teaching/education seminars, maybe if you go to a communication seminar then a teaching seminar you'll be able to understand the difference and learn to communicate it better than you just did.
 

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00VicWard001

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I don't think I've ever seen so much ******y over one game as what I've seen over the swans match. It was one game of footy ffs. If it was a recurring pattern that we just get blown away every time we play a big game or against a decent opponent, fine. But it's not. The only two demonstrably awful finals performances we've put in under Scott have been 5 seasons apart. The swans and Fremantle. And even against Fremantle we came home strong at least. North jumped us once but we still almost stole that match. Even the Sydney match, we actually won the last three quarters as a whole so he must have done something to at least arrest the problem.

In between we faded in the last term against Hawthorn and Fremantle. Guess what, that happens when you play good sides.

Is there suddenly no room in sport for just saying 'you know what, we were below our best and the other side came out and played some ripping footy.'

No, it has to be a long standing communication issue which mysteriously has no impact at all for the first six months of a season but just appears once.
Yes, because suddenly it is a more complex game plan in the finals. This I seriously doubt.

The reality is that it's a more contested version of the same game plan, because a lot more is at stake AND we've spent a season learning about, training, practising and implementing a very specific style of football.

When I see Chris Scott stating things like 'most intelligent people would agree', I know who he's aiming this at. People like BC (not BC himself, because he would be like an ant to the elephant who is Chris Scott).
 

00VicWard001

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They're not communication seminars they're teaching/education seminars, maybe if you go to a communication seminar then a teaching seminar you'll be able to understand the difference and learn to communicate it better than you just did.
Is the Communication 'seminar' first period and the 'teaching seminar' in third period after home economics?
 

00VicWard001

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Rubbish I only ever talk about the last 5 seasons of mediocrity, I don't say the clubs on the brink of failure or instability off field, never once have I said I don't trust we're in a strong position off field.
This is entertaining watching you backpedal from every point that you make.

"No, I didn't say Hardwick was better",

"No, it doesnt count that the Cats won a final",

"No I'm not saying we're in a bad position off the field",

"No I didn't exactly mean that Chris Scott is a bad communicator",

"No I only meant midfield 'mercenaries', not other positional 'mercenaries' when I said you can't win a premiership with them",

"no I meant that other type of 'traditional rebuild' when I used GWS as an example of a 'traditional rebuild'"...
 

JumpyHolden

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Hardly surprising you find BC's post to be "brilliantly put". He's had over 1,450 goes at saying the same thing in this thread*, which is some record.
Well a quick calculation, 1 BC question = roughly 4 replies not including likes, so let's see 1450 x 4 = 5800, gee that's a lot of peanuts he's dished out in this thread alone.

* Not to mention the 1,000+ posts in Part 1
Again, 1 BC question = roughly 4 replies not including likes, so let's see 1000+ x 4 = 4000+. Must be costing him a fortune in peanuts!!!!
 

romeohwho

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I wasn't arguing it was ground breaking I was arguing that clubs wouldn't invest in such programs unless communication and teaching were crucial in modern coaching. It doesn't matter what game plan you have if you can't communicate it and teach it well enough to the players then there's no hope of success and the best teacher/student relationships are built on the mutual trust and understanding that come with good communication. This would explain why the two most recent premiership coaches both have outstanding relationships with their respective playing groups.
How do you know what sort of relationship they actually have with Clarkson and Beveridge? Let alone 'outstanding.'
What are you basing this assumption on please?
 

geelong_crazy26

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How do you know what sort of relationship they actually have with Clarkson and Beveridge? Let alone 'outstanding.'
What are you basing this assumption on please?
The answer is he doesn't have anything he bases it on. Like everything else he posts he really never has any facts to use. I am still waiting for a quote by Paul chapman in a book that blighty claims he picked up at a bookstore that happened to open up on a page where chapman said Scott was too soft on the players, I asked for the page it was on and blighty went quiet. Sums up most things wit him when it comes to proof
 

BlightysCats

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How do you know what sort of relationship they actually have with Clarkson and Beveridge? Let alone 'outstanding.'
What are you basing this assumption on please?
Weirdly enough 3 flags in a row, and a flag with one of the youngest lists in the league.
 
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Rubbish I only ever talk about the last 5 seasons of mediocrity, I don't say the clubs on the brink of failure or instability off field, never once have I said I don't trust we're in a strong position off field.
Let's consider the bold for a moment. We have a coach that has kept the club competitive whilst having to gradually replace about 3000+ games of experience over this time with new players, whether they be draft picks or free agents. And of course there have been how many compromised drafts during this time to aid the AFL's love child? How have your two previous pin-up boys Bucks and Ross been doing in comparison? I would suggest the answer would be sh*te rather than merely mediocre.
You want the club to go and get high drafts picks by tanking? Fine. That's your opinion. The club has chosen a different direction. You can call that and any associated results 'mediocre' until the cows come home. It won't change my enjoyment of the club winning more than they lose or playing finals with the opportinity of winning the big one.
 

Ricketz

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Well a quick calculation, 1 BC question = roughly 4 replies not including likes, so let's see 1450 x 4 = 5800, gee that's a lot of peanuts he's dished out in this thread alone.


Again, 1 BC question = roughly 4 replies not including likes, so let's see 1000+ x 4 = 4000+. Must be costing him a fortune in peanuts!!!!
There is a game. And there is another game. Some rubbish cannot be left unchallenged, no matter the depths you might be dragged to.

It is good theatre, to the initiated.
 

Ricketz

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Weirdly enough 3 flags in a row, and a flag with one of the youngest lists in the league.
Oh, ffs, Hawks three-peat team was not better than any of our one-peat premiership sides. We played and won all of our grandfinals in an undiluted competition, against teams on an equal footing. The Hawks won against the opposite, by virtue of owning a mature list at the right time. I'm not saying their club admin and plans weren't better, just their cattle.
 

BlightysCats

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How have your two previous pin-up boys Bucks and Ross
Neither has ever been a pin up boy of mine. All I've said of Bucks is he outcoaches Scott in head to head which is an indisputable fact, and of Ross I said back in 2015 I admired how he valued defence and accountability in his game plan because we clearly didn't at the time.
 

BlightysCats

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Let's consider the bold for a moment. We have a coach that has kept the club competitive whilst having to gradually replace about 3000+ games of experience over this time with new players, whether they be draft picks or free agents. And of course there have been how many compromised drafts during this time to aid the AFL's love child? How have your two previous pin-up boys Bucks and Ross been doing in comparison? I would suggest the answer would be sh*te rather than merely mediocre.
You want the club to go and get high drafts picks by tanking? Fine. That's your opinion. The club has chosen a different direction. You can call that and any associated results 'mediocre' until the cows come home. It won't change my enjoyment of the club winning more than they lose or playing finals with the opportinity of winning the big one.
First of all we don't have any opportunity of winning the big one and won't anytime soon, second of all as I posted the other day in the last 5 years we don't even make the 8 in relation to finals won; in no particular order West Coast, Adelaide, Port, Bulldogs, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Fremantle, and Sydney have all won more finals than us in the last 5 years - do you really call that being competitive?
 
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