Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

[dazbroncos]

HAHAHAH that is the greatest piece of revisionist history ever. If it was not you posting it I would not be able to believe anyone would write that drivel. So let me get this straight. People are not paying enough respect to the fantastic teams that were Collingwood 10 and Saints 09 who amassed one flag between them. Yet somehow you think it is reasonable for you to say that losing by 5 points to a team that won the next three flags in a row in a pre-lim final is "buckling horrendously in the real stuff". So missing the GF by less than a goal is buckling horrendously? Have you lost your mind. There is no way you can justify that comment. Even the most scathing hate filled vitriolic Scott hater could just not justify that comparison in any logical sense. Are you serious or are you just trolling and I have fallen for it?

Quality whack you've delivered here.

Go Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

Stalker

Not really..

Being active in every GD thread over several years, you see patterns. And willo has nailed this one. Its like clockwork. Repetitive, negative, pinging away when the game goes against us or we are playing like s**t.

Its one thing to go the tonk on the club when they are playing like crap - circa Pies, GCS and bombers games. They deserve the sprays.

But every time in a close one or when a blue gets made, up he pops.

So no, not stalking at all. 100% accurate.
GO Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

Don't think anyone in their right mind would seriously bash bomber-to come into our club and change the culture-no easy feat, develop those players, deliver a couple of flags-brilliant. Will forever be grateful to him-wonderful coach.
Don't think that has to preclude discussions over whether we underachieved/overachieved or got it right. 3 flags one can hardly complain. But also think there is no comparison of the lists that bomber and Scott have had-light years apart. Probably bomber also got cook, wells, balme, costa... -all at their peak. It helps!

Not sure the Cook , Wells thing etc. CS hasn't been hard done by at all. The club is far better off now. He's also been backed in completely and most importantly we are now a destination club.
People have short memories, 15 years ago we were the opposite. Our best young player and captain left just before Bomber was appointed.
People bagging him for 2010??? Would of we won the flag in 11 if he didn't move Gaz out of the midfield a lot and develop other players in there?
If he didn't have the guts to drop Mackie and have the vision to play Lonners at FB?
I'm really not sure. Cloke was dangerous that 11 GF before Lonners shut him down.
Also saying our list was so much better than Stkilda, Collingwood etc.
We didn't have the draft picks they had. Just in draft quality they were miles ahead. We just developed our players better.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Just on 2013, that the Hawks trolls go on about here. This is to our Geelong supporters:

Our number one ruck in that game was Nathan Vardy, 18 hitouts. Blicavs had 8. Post Ottens, nothing worked for us in the ruck department.

Max Bailey and Hale, vastly superior and experienced rucks, had 36 between them. Combined SC for our rucks, 100. Combined SC for Hawthorn pair 166. They dominated the ruck. End of story.


One of the reasons we were on top during the game was that Guthrie murdered Rioli. That problem was solved when Roughhead lined Guthrie up and put him on the bench. After that, Rioli starred. And he was one of the main reasons they took over in the last.

Chapman got reported and was out. Typical anti Geelong AFL/Hawthorn stunt, that. Enright was out. Two all time greats. Imagine Hodge and Rioli out for them. We had no rucks, we went down by a measley 5 point to the eventual premiers.

Anyone who knocks the coaching or the players for 2013, needs to stop supporting Geelong. It was a bloody courageous effort with an undermanned team, against a team that held all the cards.

You swap Ottens and Blake for Vardy and Blicavs 2009-2013, and we win 2013 and lose 2009. Think about that.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Just on 2013, that the Hawks trolls go on about here. This is to our Geelong supporters:

Our number one ruck in that game was Nathan Vardy, 18 hitouts. Blicavs had 8. Post Ottens, nothing worked for us in the ruck department.

Max Bailey and Hale, vastly superior and experienced rucks, had 36 between them. Combined SC for our rucks, 100. Combined SC for Hawthorn pair 166. They dominated the ruck. End of story.


One of the reasons we were on top during the game was that Guthrie murdered Rioli. That problem was solved when Roughhead lined Guthrie up and put him on the bench. After that, Rioli starred. And he was one of the main reasons they took over in the last.

Chapman got reported and was out. Typical anti Geelong AFL/Hawthorn stunt, that. Enright was out. Two all time greats. Imagine Hodge and Rioli out for them. We had no rucks, we went down by a measley 5 point to the eventual premiers.

Anyone who knocks the coaching or the players for 2013, needs to stop supporting Geelong. It was a bloody courageous effort with an undermanned team, against a team that held all the cards.

You swap Ottens and Blake for Vardy and Blicavs 2009-2013, and we win 2013 and lose 2009. Think about that.

We did really well that game, should of won it really. Composure down back in the last cost us badly.
Chappy suspension was bullshit. Sydney player did the exact same thing that week and got off. I may be wrong but I think Dawson also got off the week before for jumping into Selwoods head.
2013 was a blown opportunity for mine.
Had a home final. Decided to start Chappy as sub in his 250th. It was inevitable that Hawkins was going to not pull up for a game at some point but yet we had no backup plan. Bought Walker into the team after barely playing him for months.
Varcoe was possibly the most out of form and under confident afl player I'd ever seen at that point. The fact we even played him for 1 final, let alone 3 wasn't great.
Could of approached that game a bit better.

 

[Partridge]

Just on 2013, that the Hawks trolls go on about here. This is to our Geelong supporters:

Hawks trolls? Who?

Our number one ruck in that game was Nathan Vardy, 18 hitouts. Blicavs had 8. Post Ottens, nothing worked for us in the ruck department.

Max Bailey and Hale, vastly superior and experienced rucks, had 36 between them. Combined SC for our rucks, 100. Combined SC for Hawthorn pair 166. They dominated the ruck. End of story.

Vardy and Blicavs were hailed as the preferred ruck combination on here for the last two months of that season and anyone who dared to suggest a different view got slammed for it. Even after Sandilands raped both of them excuses were still made. We had a premiership ruckman sitting in the stands for the entire finals series. Scott picked his favourites and it blew up in his face. The ruck disaster was self-inflicted, and it established a delightful pattern of Blicavs resembling utter dog s**t in finals.

One of the reasons we were on top during the game was that Guthrie murdered Rioli. That problem was solved when Roughhead lined Guthrie up and put him on the bench. After that, Rioli starred. And he was one of the main reasons they took over in the last.

When did Rioli star in that game? 16 touches, 0 goals. If you can show me when Guthrie got lined up and taken off I'd be keen to see it. Hawthorn did get on top in the last but I can't recall Rioli having much to do with it.

Chapman got reported and was out. Typical anti Geelong AFL/Hawthorn stunt, that. Enright was out. Two all time greats. Imagine Hodge and Rioli out for them. We had no rucks, we went down by a measley 5 point to the eventual premiers.

Anti Geelong AFL/Hawthorn stunt? I love the conspiratorial mindset. Absolute garbage. So the AFL made Chapman jump off the ground while bumping Robbie Gray late did they? It couldn't just be an undisciplined act? Which we were seeing a lot of from our veterans around that time.

Anyone who knocks the coaching or the players for 2013, needs to stop supporting Geelong. It was a bloody courageous effort with an undermanned team, against a team that held all the cards.

Ah I love this. So you get to decide who can follow Geelong and who can't right? That's taking ludicrous to a new level. I definitely knock the coaches for 2013 and will continue to do so. They did wonderful and magnificent things in other seasons, and continue to do most things very, very well, but that finals series was a monumental blunder.

You swap Ottens and Blake for Vardy and Blicavs 2009-2013, and we win 2013 and lose 2009. Think about that.

You can do that exercise for any past teams. Not sure what purpose it serves. Put Nathan Ablett in for Lonergan in 2008 and we may have won that too. Doesn't mean much ultimately.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Hawks trolls? Who?



Vardy and Blicavs were hailed as the preferred ruck combination on here for the last two months of that season and anyone who dared to suggest a different view got slammed for it. Even after Sandilands raped both of them excuses were still made. We had a premiership ruckman sitting in the stands for the entire finals series. Scott picked his favourites and it blew up in his face. The ruck disaster was self-inflicted, and it established a delightful pattern of Blicavs resembling utter dog s**t in finals.



When did Rioli star in that game? 16 touches, 0 goals. If you can show me when Guthrie got lined up and taken off I'd be keen to see it. Hawthorn did get on top in the last but I can't recall Rioli having much to do with it.



Anti Geelong AFL/Hawthorn stunt? I love the conspiratorial mindset. Absolute garbage. So the AFL made Chapman jump off the ground while bumping Robbie Gray late did they? It couldn't just be an undisciplined act? Which we were seeing a lot of from our veterans around that time.



Ah I love this. So you get to decide who can follow Geelong and who can't right? That's taking ludicrous to a new level. I definitely knock the coaches for 2013 and will continue to do so. They did wonderful and magnificent things in other seasons, and continue to do most things very, very well, but that finals series was a monumental blunder.



You can do that exercise for any past teams. Not sure what purpose it serves. Put Nathan Ablett in for Lonergan in 2008 and we may have won that too. Doesn't mean much ultimately.

Deliberately obtuse? Pretty clear whom is referred to as Hawk trolls around here.

The sad little men who see nothing right about this club. Pathetic fans.

Edit: yawn over the old arguments thread worthy horseshit about West again. Old news.

 

[catempire]

Not sure the Cook , Wells thing etc. CS hasn't been hard done by at all. The club is far better off now. He's also been backed in completely and most importantly we are now a destination club.
People have short memories, 15 years ago we were the opposite. Our best young player and captain left just before Bomber was appointed.
People bagging him for 2010??? Would of we won the flag in 11 if he didn't move Gaz out of the midfield a lot and develop other players in there?
If he didn't have the guts to drop Mackie and have the vision to play Lonners at FB?
I'm really not sure. Cloke was dangerous that 11 GF before Lonners shut him down.
Also saying our list was so much better than Stkilda, Collingwood etc.
We didn't have the draft picks they had. Just in draft quality they were miles ahead. We just developed our players better.

What stands out in these discussions is people who say, as if it is fact, one coach is better than the other or did better or worse because of X, Y or Z. Inevitably it reveals the bias that person takes into the discussion. Both coaches have been outstanding for us but both have also had failures. That should be easy to recognise.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

We did really well that game, should of won it really. Composure down back in the last cost us badly.
Chappy suspension was bullshit. Sydney player did the exact same thing that week and got off. I may be wrong but I think Dawson also got off the week before for jumping into Selwoods head.
2013 was a blown opportunity for mine.
Had a home final. Decided to start Chappy as sub in his 250th. It was inevitable that Hawkins was going to not pull up for a game at some point but yet we had no backup plan. Bought Walker into the team after barely playing him for months.
Varcoe was possibly the most out of form and under confident afl player I'd ever seen at that point. The fact we even played him for 1 final, let alone 3 wasn't great.
Could of approached that game a bit better.

Dawson lined up Selwood. Nearly took his head off. Remember that.

Medical staff kept saying in 2013 Hawkins was not going to get worse if played and structure wise it was best to have him in. That of course turned out to be wrong. The MC backed Varcoe to come good, and the game before he looked like tracking that way. There was no-one his class in the VFL side they would have replaced him with after the Port game. Hindsight is great, but there is only so many pieces you can move before you say "Hail Mary" and go for it.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Hawks trolls? Who?

The ones that yammer on when we are losing and go MIA when we are winning. What supporter does that?

 

[Partridge]

The ones that yammer on when we are losing and go MIA when we are winning. What supporter does that?

How do you know they're from Hawthorn?

 

[catempire]

raped

Partridge, you can make your point without this.

And before you say it, it's not about some people being offended it's much more than that. I'm sure you will know what I mean.

 

[Ray Donovan]

or maybe... it has to do with the cattle at ones disposal as well... and I mean the great Hawks list managment of getting Vickery, JOM and Mitchell. Mitchell had great numbers however... good for supercoach.

GO Catters

Hmmm omeara is the wild card though in his early 20's if they can turn his knee around like burgoyne from port he could be anything for a brief time would of been the best young talent in the league. Vickery was a mistake a bit similar to frawley

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Vardy and Blicavs were hailed as the preferred ruck combination on here for the last two months of that season and anyone who dared to suggest a different view got slammed for it. Even after Sandilands raped both of them excuses were still made. We had a premiership ruckman sitting in the stands for the entire finals series. Scott picked his favourites and it blew up in his face. The ruck disaster was self-inflicted, and it established a delightful pattern of Blicavs resembling utter dog s**t in finals.

Trent West was a journeyman footballer. He never starred anywhere at any time in his career to make his exclusion any kind of travesty. Good on him for being in the 2011 and playing his role. But he was never going to win the 2013 prelim for us. That is delusional.

I can recall one game where he played very well in the reserves that season and just after the game he made it clear he was very pissed off about not being in the firsts. There may have been a problem there, I don't know. But Trent was no great shakes as a ruckman. I personally thought he was a victim of our lack of ruck stock. He could have made a very good marking forward. jmo

 

[RegHickeyStand]

How do you know they're from Hawthorn?

Hawthorn will do.

 

[Landgraft]

Hmmm omeara is the wild card though in his early 20's if they can turn his knee around like burgoyne from port he could be anything for a brief time would of been the best young talent in the league. Vickery was a mistake a bit similar to frawley

The thing with Jaeger's knees is that a patella tendon is much scarier than most other knee injuries in terms of getting back to where he was before it occurred. If he could even become something comparable to Menzel in terms of finding and being able to execute a limited role with foutball nous and a range of freakish skills then I think that would be a huge win. What worries me is the idea that they try to plug him into the midfield, as they looked to do earlier this year. I'm just not sure that his body will be able to handle the strains and challenges presented there, especially the greater running load.

 

[romeohwho]

Not sure the Cook , Wells thing etc. CS hasn't been hard done by at all. The club is far better off now. He's also been backed in completely and most importantly we are now a destination club.
People have short memories, 15 years ago we were the opposite. Our best young player and captain left just before Bomber was appointed.
People bagging him for 2010??? Would of we won the flag in 11 if he didn't move Gaz out of the midfield a lot and develop other players in there?
If he didn't have the guts to drop Mackie and have the vision to play Lonners at FB?
I'm really not sure. Cloke was dangerous that 11 GF before Lonners shut him down.
Also saying our list was so much better than Stkilda, Collingwood etc.
We didn't have the draft picks they had. Just in draft quality they were miles ahead. We just developed our players better.

Bomber has the runs on the board-2 flags and instrumental in developing a brilliant culture, team, club. Don't think you can underestimate the role of Cook, Balme and co though -they made enormous differences and that assisted the coach greatly.And Harley's role and character -very important. But bomber -full credit to him. Deserves all the accolades.
Still think 2010 wasn't good enough, for that team to fail so badly, though and can't really see that as a contentious view. Nor do I think your comment re moving gaz forward holds up. And regardless of drafting, our list was way better than pies-yet they were a terrific team with a great game plan. But still think it's ok to discuss these things and have differing opinions if the are reasonable.

 

[Partridge]

Trent West was a journeyman footballer. He never starred anywhere at any time in his career to make his exclusion any kind of travesty. Good on him for being in the 2011 and playing his role. But he was never going to win the 2013 prelim for us. That is delusional.

Never stated he was going to win a final for us. In the modern game I'm not sure any player does that. But I believed then - and still do now - that he would have made our ruck combination much more competitive in that finals series.

We're unlikely to agree on this.

 

[Tony Barber]

Trent West was a journeyman footballer. He never starred anywhere at any time in his career to make his exclusion any kind of travesty. Good on him for being in the 2011 and playing his role. But he was never going to win the 2013 prelim for us. That is delusional.

I can recall one game where he played very well in the reserves that season and just after the game he made it clear he was very pissed off about not being in the firsts. There may have been a problem there, I don't know. But Trent was no great shakes as a ruckman. I personally thought he was a victim of our lack of ruck stock. He could have made a very good marking forward. jmo

Here we go. Going over old ground again I see. Not just you.

Firstly, it was about the QF that year, not the prelim.
West was rucking fine that year but the club wanted more from him around the ground. Hence VFL.
In the QF we had the option of Vardy in the ruck against sandi with walker as our key forward or West in the ruck with Vardy forward.

*cough, cough.
It was a utensil up.

 

[Partridge]

Bomber has the runs on the board-2 flags and instrumental in developing a brilliant culture, team, club. Don't think you can underestimate the role of Cook, Balme and co though -they made enormous differences and that assisted the coach greatly.And Harley's role and character -very important. But bomber -full credit to him. Deserves all the accolades.
Still think 2010 wasn't good enough, for that team to fail so badly, though and can't really see that as a contentious view. Nor do I think your comment re moving gaz forward holds up. And regardless of drafting, our list was way better than pies-yet they were a terrific team with a great game plan. But still think it's ok to discuss these things and have differing opinions if the are reasonable.

I think we may have had a superior list in 2010, but Collingwood that season were a superior team. For whatever reason, Malthouse had that combination working together as fanatically as any side I've ever seen. Their insane desperation and effort more than made up for deficiencies in other areas.

 

[romeohwho]

I think we may have had a superior list in 2010, but Collingwood that season were a superior team. For whatever reason, Malthouse had that combination working together as fanatically as any side I've ever seen. Their insane desperation and effort more than made up for deficiencies in other areas.

Yep, happy to agree with that.

 

[BUSTER29]

I think we may have had a superior list in 2010, but Collingwood that season were a superior team. For whatever reason, Malthouse had that combination working together as fanatically as any side I've ever seen. Their insane desperation and effort more than made up for deficiencies in other areas.

Pretty much.
Pies looked the best team for most of that season,mainly the 2nd half of it and they went onto win the flag.
The pressure and intensity they brought week in week out was too much for opposition sides to deal with.
Including our own very talented team.

 

[dazbroncos]

I get the context of the discussion but lets try and keep this to the current day CS issues.

I dont want to move all of this to the war thread.

Go Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

Bomber has the runs on the board-2 flags and instrumental in developing a brilliant culture, team, club. Don't think you can underestimate the role of Cook, Balme and co though -they made enormous differences and that assisted the coach greatly.And Harley's role and character -very important. But bomber -full credit to him. Deserves all the accolades.
Still think 2010 wasn't good enough, for that team to fail so badly, though and can't really see that as a contentious view. Nor do I think your comment re moving gaz forward holds up. And regardless of drafting, our list was way better than pies-yet they were a terrific team with a great game plan. But still think it's ok to discuss these things and have differing opinions if the are reasonable.

We did have the superior list, but I was making the point that Stkilda and Collingwood(& Hawthorn) had better draft picks than we ever had during Bombers reign.
We did a lot right during that time( obviously)
I just find it strange with the Bomber bagging.
CS & Bomber coached in different eras and both had different advantages and disadvantages.
A lot of people on here are stoked with CS winning 11 and making the finals every year.
Why not be as stoked with the coach who got us to 3 GF's, 2 prelims and 2 flags also.

 

[romeohwho]

We did have the superior list, but I was making the point that Stkilda and Collingwood(& Hawthorn) had better draft picks than we ever had during Bombers reign.
We did a lot right during that time( obviously)
I just find it strange with the Bomber bagging.
CS & Bomber coached in different eras and both had different advantages and disadvantages.
A lot of people on here are stoked with CS winning 11 and making the finals every year.
Why not be as stoked with the coach who got us to 3 GF's, 2 prelims and 2 flags also.

I am certainly not stoked with Scott but, unlike many, am happy to give him credit for 2011. Also think the difference in calibre of the teams these 2 coaches had, needs acknowledgement. Think he is doing a good job and still has time on his side, but unless he can develop some of our younger guys, and improve his finals record, he will not be a great coach. But am hopeful the signs are there. Bomber goes down, meanwhile, as a great coach.