Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

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This would be more appropriate in the malaise and mediocrity thread, but since it got closed late last night (not sure why, think its evidently topical atm) will put it here.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense for the club to encourage Chris Scott to explore any opportunity with the Suns. It would give the club a chance at some fresh people and ideas in all key posts. Hocking is headed to HQ in a few weeks, Cook has signalled its likely his last year in '18, so there is a chance to refresh across the board. To give new people a clean slate. Cook could start the transition process in earnest, and the club could start looking for his successor.

I would cull all the coaches except Scarlo and Boris. Yes, even Lloyd. I have always been skeptical of him, and think he's a significant influence on the way we play. Too much of how we play now seems strikingly Freo and Lyon like. The over-coached, overcomplicated, uber-defensive, guarding the grass structure we employ, with the accompanying lack of focus on skills and inventiveness. It seems very Freo-esque to me. And its come to the fore in these last 2 seasons since his arrival. We actually haven't been too bad to watch under Chris for the most part, but I suspect plenty of that was attributable to the leftovers of a Golden Generation who were ingrained in taking risks, and playing with instinct.

If we could start afresh I would seriously look at something like getting Brendan McCartney in again. Give him a guaranteed 3 year tenure, and let him bring in some of the 7-11 guys as assistants and development coaches, with a view to grooming a successor in time. His development focus is exactly what we need for so many across our list. He's a straight-shooter, proven teacher and has an uncomplicated footy philosophy. I think he would've learnt plenty from his first senior experience that will hold him in good stead second time around.

Thoughts?
I'd like McCartney back at the club
 

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year of the cat

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If we were to be absolutely flogged next Friday night does anyone think that the calls for Scott to be replaced would start to be amplified through the media? It may be that we've gone as far as we can with him as coach. I recall in '94 there was a recognition from Blight that he'd done all he could to win a flag with us. He recognised that his race had been run. I wonder whether even Scott may start to read the tea leaves next Friday night?
 

Partridge

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So because they were anonymous, that means they lied?

Reasonable questions are fine. Saying he's a hopeless coach, which some on here do regularly, is less so.

Most people on here think here think he has strengths and weaknesses.
He's not hopeless. You don't win that many games if you can't coach.

However, it's looking more and more like their style of play doesn't hold up to finals pressure. And the decision to play that style is absolutely on him.

First thing that should be changed, and that he can change, is stop picking favourites. Reward form. Past deeds should count for zero.

Won't happen, but should.
 

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I'd like McCartney back at the club
Shit yes. Someone to drive ferocious approach to the basics back no matter where we are playing. We are crying out for it. Scott and the current lot are trying to either be too cute and complicated with our method of defense and getting the ball back or too safe with our attack. Whatever insitincts or skills our players have and show in Geelong all go to shit when our inconsistent approach to basics is put under sustained pressure.
 

pollywaffle

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If we were to be absolutely flogged next Friday night does anyone think that the calls for Scott to be replaced would start to be amplified through the media? It may be that we've gone as far as we can with him as coach. I recall in '94 there was a recognition from Blight that he'd done all he could to win a flag with us. He recognised that his race had been run. I wonder whether even Scott may start to read the tea leaves next Friday night?
No, he will 'take the positives' and keep dishing up more of the same. Doesn't strike me as the sort who would give it away without being pushed.
The black knight in monty python springs to mind...
 
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He's not hopeless. You don't win that many games if you can't coach.

However, it's looking more and more like their style of play doesn't hold up to finals pressure. And the decision to play that style is absolutely on him.

First thing that should be changed, and that he can change, is stop picking favourites. Reward form. Past deeds should count for zero.

Won't happen, but should.
Agreed
 

year of the cat

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He's not hopeless. You don't win that many games if you can't coach.

However, it's looking more and more like their style of play doesn't hold up to finals pressure. And the decision to play that style is absolutely on him.

First thing that should be changed, and that he can change, is stop picking favourites. Reward form. Past deeds should count for zero.

Won't happen, but should.
The frustrating aspect from my point of view is that there appears to be no sign of an improvement in our ability to play quality finals footy. He's had 4-5 years now to refine a strategy that will hold up, he's been able to bring in mature players in areas of need and yet we still aren't any closer to being competitive. If anything we appear to be regressing.

We have a style of game that is effective at KP that allows us to win enough games to make finals. But, yet again, our game plan disintegrates when the ball is first bounced in a final. Whether that is due to a flawed game plan and/or a group of players that just are unable to go to another level in September, I'm not sure? But when it happens year after year after year then surely changes need to be made to not just the playing list, but also the coaching personnel.

Funnily enough, I thought he'd coached better this year than last. I was far more confident going into this finals series than last year. Which makes it so so disappointing.
 
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Shit yes. Someone to drive ferocious approach to the basics back no matter where we are playing. We are crying out for it. Scott and the current lot are trying to either be too cute and complicated with our method of defense and getting the ball back or too safe with our attack. Whatever insitincts or skills our players have and show in Geelong all go to shit when our inconsistent approach to basics is put under sustained pressure.
Both the Scott boys are prone to what I consider the bane of modern footy - overthinking, overanalysing and therefore overcomplicating the game. This is why I always get the feeling we play to not lose, rather than win. We rarely take enough risks, and I don't care what all the media boffins say, you can't win finals, let alone flags, without backing yourself and taking risks.

It's all Clarkos fault. He has had Hawthorn playing a very precise, measured brand of footy, but it only worked for them because they recruited very specific types of footballers to fit that style. But because they were successful doing that, the automatic idea is to copy them, whether you've got the cattle or understanding of how that system needs to work to pull it off.

It worries me that the coach still doesn't seem to notice that when we try to play in Hawthorns style, we get rolled, yet when we play more to our traditional style and strengths, our best is as good as anyones.
 

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Nothing yet obviously. But they have shown that:
- They are much improved from last season
- Cotchin can perform in finals
- Their style of football works in finals
- More teams should pay attention to applying basic pressure as it all springs from there.
- Final point, they are a much more unified team than Geelong. Telling ourselves how crap they are might make us feel better but won't solve anything. Nor is it true. I get the impression that posters who say that don't want to face the truth about Geelong or that the last few years look to have been wasted.
Your points are all valid. Don't get me wrong, I don think they are a mediocre side. In many ways, I think they are actually in a pretty similar spot to us. They have an exceptional core of 4-5 key players who really drive their performance in a major way, just like us. It should be remembered they have been a 15 win regular season side for several years now. This year isn't really a spike in performance, its just that last year was the outlier for them, in reality, if you know what I mean. I'm skeptical, though, that they have the ingredients for meaningful, real success. Where Dimma deserves some credit though, is in that he's finally filling the holes with youth rather than retreads/plodders like he has in previous years (think Hunt, Morris, Hampson,, Miles etc), and this has been a material gain for them, which may yet bear fruit, but they're working on a limited timeline (like us) and still have one too many cracks for my liking.
 
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Your points are all valid. Don't get me wrong, I don think they are a mediocre side. In many ways, I think they are actually in a pretty similar spot to us. They have an exceptional core of 4-5 key players who really drive their performance in a major way, just like us. It should be remembered they have been a 15 win regular season side for several years now. This year isn't really a spike in performance, its just that last year was the outlier for them, in reality, if you know what I mean. I'm skeptical, though, that they have the ingredients for meaningful, real success. Where Dimma deserves some credit though, is in that he's finally filling the holes with youth rather than retreads/plodders like he has in previous years (think Hunt, Morris, Hampson,, Miles etc), and this has been a material gain for them, which may yet bear fruit, but they're working on a limited timeline (like us) and still have one too many cracks for my liking.
If they play the next two games like they did last night, they'll win it in a canter. The Swans are the only team that stands up well to that sort of ferocity, and would be the only concern even if the Tigers maintain their form.
 

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If they play the next two games like they did last night, they'll win it in a canter. The Swans are the only team that stands up well to that sort of ferocity, and would be the only concern even if the Tigers maintain their form.
I think Crows will go ok against the Tigers.

Blueprint to beat the Cats (manic pressure at the ball carrier and in the contest) won't necessarily beat other teams who can stand up to it better than we can.
 

zb14

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If they play the next two games like they did last night, they'll win it in a canter. The Swans are the only team that stands up well to that sort of ferocity, and would be the only concern even if the Tigers maintain their form.
I don't agree, Adel and Syd are well ahead of them, all things being equal IMO. But we'll certainly get a definitive answer in the next few weeks. The door is now certainly wide open for them, if their good enough.
 

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So because they were anonymous, that means they lied?

Reasonable questions are fine. Saying he's a hopeless coach, which some on here do regularly, is less so.

Most people on here think here think he has strengths and weaknesses.

Would another coach do better with the same list? Would a rebuild with no picks inside the top 10 have been a better decision than recruiting mature players from elsewhere ? Are you happy to spend a few years near the bottom, like Richmond and the Bulldogs did, to build a new dynasty?

There are some questions to ponder.
You mustn't have been following the thread.
Someone posted that poll and it was Game,Set & Match.
Course he ain't hopeless. Has won a flag and a shitload of H&A games.
I think most reasonable people were waiting for the finals this year to accurately judge his performance.
Absolute carbon copy of most finals since 2012. Slow start and unable to cope under serious heat.
This has nothing to do with list management or draft picks. It is coaching.
Players can't take all the blame. It's six years and many are new. It's CS job to develop and coach into them a style than can stand up under real pressure.
After six years he has proved beyond doubt now (if there even was any after last year) that he is incapable of fixing certain issues.
 
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You mustn't have been following the thread.
Someone posted that poll and it was Game,Set & Match.
Course he ain't hopeless. Has won a flag and a shitload of H&A games.
I think most reasonable people were waiting for the finals this year to accurately judge his performance.
Absolute carbon copy of most finals since 2012. Slow start and unable to cope under serious heat.
This has nothing to do with list management or draft picks. It is coaching.
Players can't take all the blame. It's six years and many are new. It's CS job to develop and coach into them a style than can stand up under real pressure.
After six years he has proved beyond doubt now (if there even was any after last year) that he is incapable of fixing certain issues.
I must admit I didn't read that in this thread and can't be bothered reading through umpteen posts to find out whether you're right or not. One or two might have said that.

No-one has said it's all the players' fault but they are professionals and they need to turn up to play. It's not just in finals that they start poorly. Remember the Sydney game a month ago?
 

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I must admit I didn't read that in this thread and can't be bothered reading through umpteen posts to find out whether you're right or not. One or two might have said that.

No-one has said it's all the players' fault but they are professionals and they need to turn up to play. It's not just in finals that they start poorly. Remember the Sydney game a month ago?
I agree the players need to turn up to play but unfortunately some of them just don't suit finals. Thats not C.Scotts fault but he does rightly or wrongly choose to persist with them. But yeah he obviously can't be blamed for dropped marks, fumbles etc.
As an overall team he needs to take the bulk of the blame for finals performances and against high pressure teams like Sydney though.
When the pressure is on we have no system, no outlets, players don't know where to run or who to deliver to.
An absolutely ridiculous press at times which at the G can be easily exposed and when it does is a massive momentum and morale killer.
Then there's the way the opposition plays.
 

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He's not hopeless. You don't win that many games if you can't coach.

However, it's looking more and more like their style of play doesn't hold up to finals pressure. And the decision to play that style is absolutely on him.

First thing that should be changed, and that he can change, is stop picking favourites. Reward form. Past deeds should count for zero.

Won't happen, but should.
If we go out in straight sets, I hope their is some real soul searching done.
 
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