Strategy Chris Scott's coaching performance

[Farmer2Goggin]

for a do or die final you now want Lonergan, Kelly, Vardy and Corey out of the side to be replaced by GHS, Brown, West and ?

I understand Vardy for West but you say some stupid things. Did you also push hard for one of Walker or Kersten to play ahead of the injured Hawkins?

Hey Broncos - the defenition of insanity is to keep doing the same things and expect a different result
Fortune favours the brave - the lineup needs to change beyond the forced change this week.

EDIT - sorry Partridge , didn't see your post re insanity

 

[ATSAM]

Players playing below standard and expectations is the coaching responsibility. Selection, playing injured players, playing them out of position , not putting the best on the ground during the game, not giving young players enough game time during the year, having favourites, not getting into their heads before the game,the game plan on the day, not changing it on the day these are coaching responsibilities.
Not having leaders on the field is a bit of bad luck for us-Ling and Scarlett gone- but we should be identifying options and working with them,.
All of the above wins games and Coaches are responsible even though they are not playing.

 

[Cattery]

Yes I did push for Walker or Kersten ahead of Hawkins. You can't play an injured player. We found out Walker isn't up to it. So the options are injured star (Hawkins); fit lump of wood (Walker); or fit debutant (Kersten). I'll go for option three. It absolutely could be wrong, but we can't do the same thing and expect a different result. It's called insanity.

How about option four, we play number three out of the square?

 

[candiehappy]

Players playing below standard and expectations is the coaching responsibility. Selection, playing injured players, playing them out of position , not putting the best on the ground during the game, not giving young players enough game time during the year, having favourites, not getting into their heads before the game,the game plan on the day, not changing it on the day these are coaching responsibilities.
Not having leaders on the field is a bit of bad luck for us-Ling and Scarlett gone- but we should be identifying options and working with them,.
All of the above wins games and Coaches are responsible even though they are not playing.

no leaders on the field? Just a tad over dramatic?

 

[swish05]

Players playing below standard and expectations is the coaching responsibility. Selection, playing injured players, playing them out of position , not putting the best on the ground during the game, not giving young players enough game time during the year, having favourites, not getting into their heads before the game,the game plan on the day, not changing it on the day these are coaching responsibilities.
Not having leaders on the field is a bit of bad luck for us-Ling and Scarlett gone- but we should be identifying options and working with them,.
All of the above wins games and Coaches are responsible even though they are not playing.

1) Players playing below standard and expectations is the coaching responsibility - Considering we finished second on the ladder losing four games all by under 3 goals would say to me that this has not happened consistently.
2) Selection - There is a match committee and no one person is soley responsible or nor do everyone always agree on such matters.
3) playing injured players - Geelong has been the benchmark in the competion for doing the opposite of this.
4) playing them out of position - Such as ?
5) not putting the best on the ground during the game - Such as ?
6) not giving young players enough game time during the year - Who are u referring too exactly ?
7) having favourites - Such as ?
8) not getting into their heads before the game - Have no idea what this means
9) not changing it on the day these are coaching responsibilities. If football was this simple why would we ever lose ?
10) Not having leaders on the field - Ridiculous Comment

 

[geelong_boy]

I am at a loss as to how we have Kersten kicking bags every week in the VFL, has a big mature body, could put him deep forward and yet he doesnt get a look in at all. Deserved a go much more on the weekend then Walker did and probably wouldn't spud it up like he did.

He's missed significant parts of the year with recurring hamstring injuries. Only just made it back before the end of the H&A so it was a line ball decision re him playing seniors.

 

[Partridge]

How about option four, we play number three out of the square?

Sounds good to me. We could even have the other key forward 50m away instead of standing on his toes. And they could tell Kersten to lead out of the square. Imagine that!

 

[Partridge]

3) playing injured players - Geelong has been the benchmark in the competion for doing the opposite of this.

Normally agree. But the handling of Hawkins has been horrible and a long way from any benchmark.

6) not giving young players enough game time during the year - Who are u referring too exactly ?

George Horlin-Smith, Mitch Brown, Jordan Schroder, Jordan Murdoch, Billie Smedts, and Shane Kersten. Especially the first two.

7) having favourites - Such as ?

Travis Varcoe, Nathan Vardy, Josh Caddy, Josh Walker. Smedts and Murdoch were earlier in the year.

 

[Partridge]

He's missed significant parts of the year with recurring hamstring injuries. Only just made it back before the end of the H&A so it was a line ball decision re him playing seniors.

True, but he had played 6 games in a row before Saturday, and had kicked 24 goals. So he's in good goalkicking form.

 

[kanyewest]

To say that Chris Scott was “clearly outcoached” is an overreaction and if the finger must be pointed at anyone how about we point it at those players who unfortunately played below the level that we have come to expect.

I think what some people mean (or at least this is how I think of it) is that the game on Saturday was clearly played on Freo's terms. At no stage did we really get our game going, and it was an arm wrestle precisely because that's how Ross Lyon wanted it. It is in this sense that CS was outcoached.

But you are right, blame can't just be pointed in one direction - the players on the ground have a huge influence clearly. This doesn't mean people can't ask questions about how we can do things differently next time in terms of strategy, rather than simply saying I hope the players perform better.

I for one would like to see us make Freo uncomfortable rather than playing into their hands - sick of being the hunted...!

 

[muttonchops]

the definition of insane is to play even more newbies in a do or die final. Just look at what happened to Caddy, Blicavs, Walker and Vardy and you want to add even more kids to the line up??

Which is why it was such a ridiculous decision to start Chappy as a sub.

 

[Partridge]

the definition of insane is to play even more newbies in a do or die final. Just look at what happened to Caddy, Blicavs, Walker and Vardy and you want to add even more kids to the line up??

But you wouldn't be adding more necessarily. Kersten would be the only debutant (if he were picked, which I doubt - they'll convince themselves that Hawkins is fit).

Walker out for Kersten - yep that's 10 games for 0.
Vardy out for West - that's 19 games for 54.
Caddy out for Horlin-Smith - that's 41 games for 11. But I know who I'd prefer.

Blicavs will stay in, and the those changes are negligible overall.

 

[fpm84]

Which is why it was such a ridiculous decision to start Chappy as a sub.

Chapman as sub was the worst decision of the season so far - and that's no exaggeration.
I was already feeling flat about the Hawkins/Walker swap and when I saw Chappy run out in the green vest my heart sank.

I'm sure Scott has been asked about the thinking behind it - has anybody heard?

 

[muttonchops]

Chapman as sub was the worst decision of the season so far - and that's no exaggeration.
I was already feeling flat about the Hawkins/Walker swap and when I saw Chappy run out in the green vest my heart sank.

I'm sure Scott has been asked about the thinking behind it - has anybody heard?

Agreed. I saw it on the big screen pre game and was staggered. He is exactly the type of player you want in that sort of game. Especially early when we dominated and needed some Chappy polish. Tweet the coach and ask him.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

the definition of insane is to play even more newbies in a do or die final. Just look at what happened to Caddy, Blicavs, Walker and Vardy and you want to add even more kids to the line up??

West comes into #1 ruck
Walker - omitted
Vardy - forward
Caddy - recent form has been good , retain
Blicavs - 15 touches , not our worst , retain as #2 ruck
Thurlow - better HBF than JHunt , play him there or move Guthrie there and play JHunt in BP
Chapman - play as a permanent forward
Varcoe - sub or goneski

 

[Cattery]

Sounds good to me. We could even have the other key forward 50m away instead of standing on his toes. And they could tell Kersten to lead out of the square. Imagine that!

was a bit cute with that post, was actually referring to the bloke who wears gurnsey number three, J Bartel.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

As i posted in another thread, I think he has done a great job this year.

The one thing I would be really critical of with the club this year, is the handling of Hawkins. I refuse to believe he would not have benefited from 6-weeks off. I think the medical staff have handled this injury woefully and given he is our most important player, that is just not good enough.

Related to that, the Menzel situation has been poorly managed as well. He did 4 knees in 2.5 years. That should not even be possible, at some point, probably after the second one, he should have been tipped out for 12-months.

A lot of injuries, re-occur more generally, so I am beginning to have my doubts about this facet of the club.

I banged on about Menzel for a while here but gave up. I would say he is young, let him go for a year, even 2, and let his body mature. Coming back as a 23 year old isn't so bad. All you get here is "No!!! I want to see him on the paddack as soon as possible. Menzel is a great player!"

Also cannot see why they played Hawkins week in week out. Maybe the injury isn't some ligament hanging by a thread, but the constant grind of the season can only make it chronic for him.

I also think the medical decision making was dumb. And no, I'm not qualified except that I played sport and suffered from chronic injuries.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Kersten in for Walker is the same thing:

promoting a newbie into a high pressure final and hoping for the best.

Varcoe got plenty of the ball (for him) and butchered it a lot.

Vardy was out of his depth as a ruck. But against the best of the best. Walker just got stage fright and was shot by quarter time.

For the others, I would say Caddy has to go.His skill level will hurt him trying to redeem himself. Always thought he was for 2014 as soon as I laid eyes on him.

I like Murdoch and GHS and Thurlow. Thurlow for Boris.

As for poor performing players ask yourself if they are capable of redeeming themselves. If so, leave them in.

 

[thejester]

George Horlin-Smith, Mitch Brown, Jordan Schroder, Jordan Murdoch, Billie Smedts, and Shane Kersten. Especially the first two.

Smedts is the epitome of players getting games on potential rather than output.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

The first one is the most annoying. All footy clubs play favourites. Always have and always will. But it's pretty clear that guys like Vardy, Varcoe, Caddy and Walker are very much favoured by the match committee, and equally that Horlin-Smith, Brown, West, Kersten and (right now) Murdoch are not. Rivers in for Brown? Fair enough, he's got 10 years' experience, and he was solid on Saturday. But there's no justification for Vardy over West as a ruckman (different story if Vardy plays forward). There's no justification for Walker over Kersten as a forward. And right now, if reputations weren't what they are at footy clubs, there's very little justification for Kelly over Horlin-Smith. Or Caddy over Murdoch (in Caddy's case perceived reputation and reflected glow from coming from Gold Coast. How I don't know).

Agree with this 99%. I still feel Caddy has shown a lot more than Murdoch and deserves his spot. Since he came back in Rnd 14 he's averaged 18 touches, a shade under a goal and 4.5 tackles a game. I think he's played his role pretty well and is more consistent than Murda, he had to get the nod last week if it was of those two but I see them as very different players anyway. Argument of Hyphen over Caddy, now that probably has more merit. Kersten should feel very harshly treated and if we lose him due to lack of opportunity I will be very pissed.....

 

[bulletproof]

Smedts is the epitome of players getting games on potential rather than output.

His output on 2013 is far higher than Varcoe's though. As a like for like replacement, Smedts is more worthy of that spot than Varcoe on 2013 form.

 

[FredLeDeux]

The first one is the most annoying. All footy clubs play favourites. Always have and always will. But it's pretty clear that guys like Vardy, Varcoe, Caddy and Walker are very much favoured by the match committee, and equally that Horlin-Smith, Brown, West, Kersten and (right now) Murdoch are not. Rivers in for Brown? Fair enough, he's got 10 years' experience, and he was solid on Saturday. But there's no justification for Vardy over West as a ruckman (different story if Vardy plays forward). There's no justification for Walker over Kersten as a forward. And right now, if reputations weren't what they are at footy clubs, there's very little justification for Kelly over Horlin-Smith. Or Caddy over Murdoch (in Caddy's case perceived reputation and reflected glow from coming from Gold Coast. How I don't know).

The lack of tagging is amazing. The goal that Sandilands handed to Barlow (think it was) at the Geelong end, what was just as appalling wasn't the ease of the hitout - there was no one on Barlow! And this is 25m out from our goal? What the feck were they doing? Shining their medals?

The Hawkins management has been one gigantic clusterfark. He's been injured all year long, since Round 1. It didn't occur to them at any time to rest him for 3-4 weeks? Blood Kersten and see how he goes? Unbelievably poor decision.

Except that Kelly is the AFL's leading tackler, with 7.8 per game (9 on Saturday) to HSmith's 2.8 (full games). He also gets 3 more disposals per full game, and twice as many I50s. They are equal on clearances.

 

[thejester]

His output on 2013 is far higher than Varcoe's though. As a like for like replacement, Smedts is more worthy of that spot than Varcoe on 2013 form.

Their stat lines are almost identical. I don't agree with the MC's treatment of Varcoe this year but I reckon that if pressed they'd say the reason guys like Vardy and Varcoe keep getting games is because they don't think they can win it without them.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

How have Smedts and Murdoch gone as Subs this season?

 

[FredLeDeux]

Their stat lines are almost identical. I don't agree with the MC's treatment of Varcoe this year but I reckon that if pressed they'd say the reason guys like Vardy and Varcoe keep getting games is because they don't think they can win it without them.

I think if pressed they might say what 99.9% of posters say on here:
Stats count for everyone except Varcoe.