Chris Scotts coaching

Scotland

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2006
49,081
50,602
AFL Club
West Coast
Selectively the last 7 seasons, yes.

My own team doesn't have a particularly outstanding recent finals record.

2012 - home EF vs North won, away SF vs Collingwood lost
2013 - no finals
2014 - no finals
2015 - home QF vs Hawthorn won, home PF vs North won, GF vs Hawthorn lost
2016 - home EF vs WB lost
2017 - away EF vs Port won, away SF vs GWS lost
2018 - home QF vs Collingwood win, home PF vs Melbourne win, GF vs Collingwood win

Switching the 2016 loss to the Bulldogs and 2017 win over Port that's about what you'd expect given the H&A performances per season.

The whole point is that Geelong haven't turned strong H&A performances into finals success. 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd in a 5 year stretch for 0 prelim wins is a big reason people criticise Chris Scott. I'm not saying the criticism is fair or unfair, just pointing out why it exists. You can spin it that given the players at his disposal Chris Scott has overachieved in recent years if you like.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Cockarfitt

07, 09, 11
Feb 16, 2007
67,469
68,617
On Top Of The World
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Syd FC, Pelicans, Saints
Selectively the last 7 seasons, yes.

My own team doesn't have a particularly outstanding recent finals record.

2012 - home EF vs North won, away SF vs Collingwood lost
2013 - no finals
2014 - no finals
2015 - home QF vs Hawthorn won, home PF vs North won, GF vs Hawthorn lost
2016 - home EF vs WB lost
2017 - away EF vs Port won, away SF vs GWS lost
2018 - home QF vs Collingwood win, home PF vs Melbourne win, GF vs Collingwood win

Switching the 2016 loss to the Bulldogs and 2017 win over Port that's about what you'd expect given the H&A performances per season.

The whole point is that Geelong haven't turned strong H&A performances into finals success. 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd in a 5 year stretch for 0 prelim wins is a big reason people criticise Chris Scott. I'm not saying the criticism is fair or unfair, just pointing out why it exists. You can spin it that given the players at his disposal Chris Scott has overachieved in recent years if you like.
5-1 at home

2-3 away

Imagine if Scott was given the same entitlements ... and I mean home finals at our home venue every single time we earnt the right. His record would be exceptional.
 

Rod Stroker

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 9, 2003
29,166
17,275
Singapore / 30,000 feet
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Eagles (NFL), Suns (NBA)
This thread could have been written about
Dimma in 2016, then look what happened
Bucks in 2017, then look what happened

Geelong fans should be happy they've got the decent Scott in the box, never finished in the bottom 8.
 

Ricketz

Premiership Player
Aug 2, 2011
3,860
3,903
Wagga Wagga
AFL Club
Geelong
Selectively the last 7 seasons, yes.

My own team doesn't have a particularly outstanding recent finals record.

2012 - home EF vs North won, away SF vs Collingwood lost
2013 - no finals
2014 - no finals
2015 - home QF vs Hawthorn won, home PF vs North won, GF vs Hawthorn lost
2016 - home EF vs WB lost
2017 - away EF vs Port won, away SF vs GWS lost
2018 - home QF vs Collingwood win, home PF vs Melbourne win, GF vs Collingwood win

Switching the 2016 loss to the Bulldogs and 2017 win over Port that's about what you'd expect given the H&A performances per season.

The whole point is that Geelong haven't turned strong H&A performances into finals success. 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd in a 5 year stretch for 0 prelim wins is a big reason people criticise Chris Scott. I'm not saying the criticism is fair or unfair, just pointing out why it exists. You can spin it that given the players at his disposal Chris Scott has overachieved in recent years if you like.
The question is, should not making finals be the same as losing two straight? Any reasonable person would agree, and if you factor in all those years one shot wonders like the Dogs and Tigers spent on the outer in September, his finals record isn't that bad really.
 

BF Tiger

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 5, 2007
5,684
12,350
9th
AFL Club
Richmond
5-1 at home

2-3 away

Imagine if Scott was given the same entitlements ... and I mean home finals at our home venue every single time we earnt the right. His record would be exceptional.
He does get home finals at your home venue every single time it’s been earnt. Even Geelong’s website lists the MCG as a home ground.

https://m.geelongcats.com.au/ticketing/grounds
 

Scotland

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2006
49,081
50,602
AFL Club
West Coast
The question is, should not making finals be the same as losing two straight? Any reasonable person would agree, and if you factor in all those years one shot wonders like the Dogs and Tigers spent on the outer in September, his finals record isn't that bad really.
Bit of a different argument. Would you rather be Geelong or Richmond over the last decade? Geelong easily. The Western Bulldogs were a better team 2008-2010 than they were 2015-2017 but you'd take 4/4 one year for a flag over 3 prelim losses in a row every day of the week.

The big 3 since 2012 in H&A results have been Hawthorn (4 GFs, 3 flags), Sydney (3 GFs, 1 flag) and Geelong (0, 0). Teams that don't win flags are judged harshly in the AFL. Doesn't make it right but that's how it is. Look at last year, Collingwood make Richmond look silly and a week later Richmond fans are gloating because the Pies lose the flag by a kick.
 

Scotland

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2006
49,081
50,602
AFL Club
West Coast
5-1 at home

2-3 away

Imagine if Scott was given the same entitlements ... and I mean home finals at our home venue every single time we earnt the right. His record would be exceptional.
Your finals record at home is 0% wins 100% losses.

If you can't capitalise on home state advantage vs Freo and Sydney it's not really anyone else's problem. The same MCG finals rules were in place when you won 3 flags in 5 years and there was no crying then.
 

Ricketz

Premiership Player
Aug 2, 2011
3,860
3,903
Wagga Wagga
AFL Club
Geelong
Bit of a different argument. Would you rather be Geelong or Richmond over the last decade? Geelong easily. The Western Bulldogs were a better team 2008-2010 than they were 2015-2017 but you'd take 4/4 one year for a flag over 3 prelim losses in a row every day of the week.

The big 3 since 2012 in H&A results have been Hawthorn (4 GFs, 3 flags), Sydney (3 GFs, 1 flag) and Geelong (0, 0). Teams that don't win flags are judged harshly in the AFL. Doesn't make it right but that's how it is. Look at last year, Collingwood make Richmond look silly and a week later Richmond fans are gloating because the Pies lose the flag by a kick.
Well, it's not really is it? Surely any coach who makes a finals series, even if they don't win a finals game, is better than a coach who doesn't make finals at all.

In fact, I am being lenient. It is probably fairer to add two final losses to the record for every four rungs down the ladder out of the finals you play. So finish 16th, it counts as four finals losses.

I mean, no one here is seriously claiming that a coach who doesn't make the finals is on the same par as a coach who does, are they?
 

Cockarfitt

07, 09, 11
Feb 16, 2007
67,469
68,617
On Top Of The World
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Syd FC, Pelicans, Saints
Your finals record at home is 0% wins 100% losses.

If you can't capitalise on home state advantage vs Freo and Sydney it's not really anyone else's problem. The same MCG finals rules were in place when you won 3 flags in 5 years and there was no crying then.
Except their really isn't a home state advantage when you're playing your home final at your opponents home ground.

West Coast didn't have that problem. They get all their finals at their home ground ... massive, massive advantage which has been proven over the period you showed. Give Scott the same luxury to play with and he'd have an outstanding record too. The 3 premierships are irrelevant to the argument.
 

gingernuts

binlicker
Apr 25, 2018
311
377
koroit
AFL Club
Geelong
I don't care about home finals. as Malcolm Blight said back in the Geelong days. "we will play them on the tarmac"
go cats
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Scotland

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2006
49,081
50,602
AFL Club
West Coast
Well, it's not really is it? Surely any coach who makes a finals series, even if they don't win a finals game, is better than a coach who doesn't make finals at all.

In fact, I am being lenient. It is probably fairer to add two final losses to the record for every four rungs down the ladder out of the finals you play. So finish 16th, it counts as four finals losses.

I mean, no one here is seriously claiming that a coach who doesn't make the finals is on the same par as a coach who does, are they?
It depends on the quality of the players at your disposal. Is Stuart Dew who currently has 3 wins a lesser coach than John Worsfold and Ross Lyon who have 4?

We were supposed to finish 9th in 2017. Melbourne slipped up, we won, good on us. Even pinched a final too. Go team. Is finishing 8th every year better than finishing 9th? Sure but you're still mid table. If we finished 8th each year and traveled interstate for finals I would expect that we'd probably win 1 in 3 or 4.

But we're not really talking about that with Geelong, we're talking about a team that has been regularly in the top 4 and hasn't converted that to finals wins. When you finish 6th, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd in a 6 year span you would hope that translates to a better than 25% win rate.

Like I said above the whole knock has been 'great H&A side, not great finals side'. Either that changes in September or it doesn't, not much is going to change in Rd 10.
 

Ricketz

Premiership Player
Aug 2, 2011
3,860
3,903
Wagga Wagga
AFL Club
Geelong
It depends on the quality of the players at your disposal. Is Stuart Dew who currently has 3 wins a lesser coach than John Worsfold and Ross Lyon who have 4?

We were supposed to finish 9th in 2017. Melbourne slipped up, we won, good on us. Even pinched a final too. Go team. Is finishing 8th every year better than finishing 9th? Sure but you're still mid table. If we finished 8th each year and traveled interstate for finals I would expect that we'd probably win 1 in 3 or 4.

But we're not really talking about that with Geelong, we're talking about a team that has been regularly in the top 4 and hasn't converted that to finals wins. When you finish 6th, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd in a 6 year span you would hope that translates to a better than 25% win rate.

Like I said above the whole knock has been 'great H&A side, not great finals side'. Either that changes in September or it doesn't, not much is going to change in Rd 10.
So the quality of players at your disposal is irrelevant if you make finals?

Really, you are just making my argument for me. Such a small subset of data over Scott's coaching career is inadequate for judging his capabilities in finals. If you are willing to ignore every coach who never made finals at all, and pretend that their record is somehow better because they snake a couple out of the blue, then your argument is walking around on crutches.
 

Scotland

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2006
49,081
50,602
AFL Club
West Coast
So the quality of players at your disposal is irrelevant if you make finals?

Really, you are just making my argument for me. Such a small subset of data over Scott's coaching career is inadequate for judging his capabilities in finals. If you are willing to ignore every coach who never made finals at all, and pretend that their record is somehow better because they snake a couple out of the blue, then your argument is walking around on crutches.
The ****?

Quality of players is relevant to every team, hence Clarkson was lauded last year for getting Hawthorn into 4th and people are sick of Essendon underperforming each year when they are supposed to be good. If you want to compare Chris Scott to whoever else go for your life.

Small subset? I'm talking about the last 7 consecutive seasons, 150+ matches. If you don't think that a 25% finals record is a concern for a team that has won 70% of H&A matches in the same period then good-o.
 

bzparkes

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2006
10,318
5,862
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
East Fremantle
Won as many finals in 7 years as he won in his first season. Make of that what you will.
 

Xtreme

Hall of Famer
Jul 21, 2006
33,348
25,225
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Selectively the last 7 seasons, yes.

My own team doesn't have a particularly outstanding recent finals record.

2012 - home EF vs North won, away SF vs Collingwood lost
2013 - no finals
2014 - no finals
2015 - home QF vs Hawthorn won, home PF vs North won, GF vs Hawthorn lost
2016 - home EF vs WB lost
2017 - away EF vs Port won, away SF vs GWS lost
2018 - home QF vs Collingwood win, home PF vs Melbourne win, GF vs Collingwood win

Switching the 2016 loss to the Bulldogs and 2017 win over Port that's about what you'd expect given the H&A performances per season.

The whole point is that Geelong haven't turned strong H&A performances into finals success. 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd in a 5 year stretch for 0 prelim wins is a big reason people criticise Chris Scott. I'm not saying the criticism is fair or unfair, just pointing out why it exists. You can spin it that given the players at his disposal Chris Scott has overachieved in recent years if you like.
A great home and away team, but can't get the job done in finals. You'd expect someone that had such a solid w/l ratio to have won more than 1 premiership since 2011.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
May 3, 2007
16,695
7,562
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
A great home and away team, but can't get the job done in finals. You'd expect someone that had such a solid w/l ratio to have won more than 1 premiership since 2011.
Chris Scott is a good coach, dont get me wrong. But he is no Crazy Vossy:D
 

King Cold

Club Legend
Nov 9, 2011
1,523
2,173
Geelong
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Geelong VFL
5-1 at home

2-3 away

Imagine if Scott was given the same entitlements ... and I mean home finals at our home venue every single time we earnt the right. His record would be exceptional.
Imagine what Scott's win percentage would be if we got to play all 11 of our home games at the Cattery every year as well.
 

Do the Dew

Senior List
Feb 14, 2019
287
326
US and A
AFL Club
Richmond
Well, it's not really is it? Surely any coach who makes a finals series, even if they don't win a finals game, is better than a coach who doesn't make finals at all.

In fact, I am being lenient. It is probably fairer to add two final losses to the record for every four rungs down the ladder out of the finals you play. So finish 16th, it counts as four finals losses.

I mean, no one here is seriously claiming that a coach who doesn't make the finals is on the same par as a coach who does, are they?
To paraphrase the great Tommy Hafey: "I've seen some sides that Mickey Mouse could have coached, and others that Jesus Christ might have had some trouble with".

The quality of a coach is entirely about what they get out of their players. Nothing to do with overall record/win and losses/finals etc. This is a point that the media CONSTANTLY overlooks but is also why there has been some stick given to Chris Scott on this forum. He has had a seriously good amount of talent in his team yet they haven't produced when it matters. For me, the jury is still out on whether he is a good coach or not (or the right man to lead the Cats). I think by the end of this season we'll have more concrete answers.
 

99cents

Club Legend
Dec 4, 2011
2,639
1,830
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Geelong Cats
Nathan Buckley finals record
Won 3 Lost 5

Hardwick
Won 4 Lost 4

Hinkley
3 and 3
 

Ricketz

Premiership Player
Aug 2, 2011
3,860
3,903
Wagga Wagga
AFL Club
Geelong
To paraphrase the great Tommy Hafey: "I've seen some sides that Mickey Mouse could have coached, and others that Jesus Christ might have had some trouble with".

The quality of a coach is entirely about what they get out of their players. Nothing to do with overall record/win and losses/finals etc. This is a point that the media CONSTANTLY overlooks but is also why there has been some stick given to Chris Scott on this forum. He has had a seriously good amount of talent in his team yet they haven't produced when it matters. For me, the jury is still out on whether he is a good coach or not (or the right man to lead the Cats). I think by the end of this season we'll have more concrete answers.
Well, you completely avoided the question to champion your feels. Surely a coach that doesn't make the finals isn't as as successful as one who does?
 

gavaniacono

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 7, 2014
7,638
9,464
Hanoi
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Wolverhampton Wanderers
To paraphrase the great Tommy Hafey: "I've seen some sides that Mickey Mouse could have coached, and others that Jesus Christ might have had some trouble with".

The quality of a coach is entirely about what they get out of their players. Nothing to do with overall record/win and losses/finals etc. This is a point that the media CONSTANTLY overlooks but is also why there has been some stick given to Chris Scott on this forum. He has had a seriously good amount of talent in his team yet they haven't produced when it matters. For me, the jury is still out on whether he is a good coach or not (or the right man to lead the Cats). I think by the end of this season we'll have more concrete answers.
Lethal thought that Malthouse's reign at Dogs was extremely under-rated for this reason.
I thought Northey was an excellent coach too.
 

Do the Dew

Senior List
Feb 14, 2019
287
326
US and A
AFL Club
Richmond
Well, you completely avoided the question to champion your feels. Surely a coach that doesn't make the finals isn't as as successful as one who does?
Not at all. You said 'better', not 'successful'. Very different things in this context. A coach that makes finals is more successful than one that doesn't, however it doesn't mean that they're a better coach - again read THs quote


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom